A low in welcome across time for all things are considered im Peter Lavelle were told want a new cold war with china it is not coherently explain to us why even worse where is the strategy and there isnt one also the sad death of arms control. To discuss this and more im joined by my guest to meet your budget moscow he is a political analyst and editor it interest me internet media project and in london we crossed alexander material is a writer on Legal Affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran car originally cost up close in fact that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciate it ok lets 1st go to alexander mackerras in london i suppose its been. Long coming the murmurings have been out there but it is they can this pandemic for an all out at least media lot into china and of course its also played into the election cycle in the United States and i mean theyre really looking at the legacy media and their view of all of this on one hand im not completely surprised because while somebody said blame for this pandemic which of course is the subject for many other programs however in looking at the criticism for people there with low octane banking in my unit at least. The 1st and foremost my own pay or the secretary of state which International Intelligence agencies do not agree with is assessed and but again we. What i find really remarkable or a remarkable opening on how you want to approach this what is the strategy because i dont see what go ahead and i think there is there is no strategy what has happened to it is exactly as you say the speed is altered bawling and under the surface of the american all that seeks to wards charge now which has been building up for the very long time china has become increasingly rich has become increasingly powerful its economy by many measures has now supastar to the United States the 1st time thats happened to the United States since the 870 s. When apes across britain is becoming head of the United States and there is a areas of technology and his political influence has been growing so its not surprising that this is creating problems for people in the United States especially given the overall reigning sense of importance the United States gives syria it sells so its not surprising that hes been bubbling up for a long long time on this sort of seeding of an imbecile hostility towards china has but what is happens is that when this pandemic. All of this is just so the sun this in an extraordinary hangry any temperate way and you see the media the political establishment theyre all you know shouting subtly at china but they have no real plan they have they miniaturized their approaches. Talking wildly about economic lakes but theyre not really coming up with anything that remotely constitutes a plaid possibly because a plan is not to be found exactly you know damn it we have all this and many of our viewers to it isnt this the reemergence of china because thats how they define and its not been you know be a rising power its the re emerging china after 150 years of humiliation primarily at the hands of the west including russia. And now just when they get up to the top of their game suddenly believes in the United States that it made a lot of money investing in china a lot of money they brought all the jobs there china didnt steal one job from the United States the jobs were taken away from the United States and factories were shuttered but it is you know how exactly curious is already alluded to is there we talk theres even talk of a military response it seems to me that this is a 20th century mindset maybe even a 19th century mindset because the real front tier of competition is research and development and that is one area that china has pushed very hard for and that is going to give them the cutting edge when you talk military. Youre speaking from weakness thats my opinion because it shows you dont have a strategy china is already been surrounded by american bases it is already being. Being contained in many ways particularly in a military way so i think that the tool box is empty or are they just dont know how to solve their own temper tantrum about what is going on particularly when the Economic Situation primarily in the United States is very unclear as the pandemic abates go ahead. Well youre right that if your minds wrong or were going to a century or the 19th century it means reminds more than darkest ages or the way jeffs entry of course what happens is basically it was accusing biden or been a cheneys agent and by then is it years of drawing board being a russian agent doesnt it remind your something doesnt of you mind you or the warst year thought the story to union in the soviet union at least you know under study and there were just one group that was demonized at the time now we have 2 groups demonised at the time you know in the United States and what made me a laugh especially at michael off with tears in my eyes was basically an article you know that when dick madison buy an apple ball when sure all that their wallet is all off in the trunk and she wants the world to be serious about trumps all she wants your card to basically. If you want your real current economic ties to china well that would be real lunacy because what we are now is rhetorical willesee and their real card only konami ties with china would be a real hoot but we know how that works sure you have all negative statements you have this paranoia you know all by them is a chinese agent trump is a russian agent and then you have very bad quansah grants in the case of russia this is there are no rocks arms control in the case of china is there no International Trade ok maybe you know alex it is but this is a good Movie Theater isnt it i mean cutting ties with china i mean anyone that has 2 brain cells to rub together knows you cant do that because pulling is not really an option i mean if that is going to be the option if there is some kind of united front behind it which i. Can see the bad ever happening after 40 busy years of a couple linked. You know it would be the the reaction to this here is that this is a good book even better because its talking about something that is unrealistic you cannot cut these ties because International Trade would collapse more than it has already and and that again this kind of defaults to a military option which of course is ridiculous on its face i mean what are they going to do build it be us going to do build more Aircraft Carriers you know how easy this is the same berman thinks 100000. 00 missile and you can take out a multibillion dollar Aircraft Carrier again where is the thinking here or as i think we probably all agreed there isnt much thinking here this is just a kneejerk response its not just a kneejerk response and unrealistic it is fantastic and hes dangerous it is a fantastic idea that you can cut all china from the World Economy china is a set by many metrics now the biggest the biggest Industrial Power is the worlds biggest but trading power endurable goods the idea that you can simply cut all that all around the World Economy and steam all has it as you know as if that could just be done it is just as a set completely childish is it again coming back to what you said a proper 20th century its the mindset of the 1960 s. When the soviet union did operate we need certain economic world and the United States operate in its own economic world and there was very little overlap between the 2 zacks times yes you could say you could draw up all kinds of barry is and you could work on all those kind of lines with china is that possible and even contemplate the other direction of a arms race with China Building at carriers child. Hasnt begun just to base now the United States has a big big to Ship Building Industries in the United States it isnt what it was thought is that it must be clear what how did they get how did the u. S. And china vine themselves in a situation that the chinese somehow make the United States destroy its own Industrial Base for 6 to do so i mean of course it has been this rhetorical we could keep going you know it it and i think what happened was back in the 98790 s. American companies decided that it would make much more sense for their profits of late and their factories in china where costs production costs went up and to close them in the United States when they were much higher and of course that was at an american decision it was not ultimately a chinese one the chinese could not take americas Industrial Base from the United States it needed americans to make that decision and i can very well remember back in the 1990 s. All kinds of people many of the same people were talking now about china vetoed stating americas ideas probably. They were they were praying about it they were saying you know we dont really need to think that charger is our competitor because we run mostly this economy because most of self is there are american theyre american and so of course that has proved completely wrong in many ways because of course the chinese demand that theyre any color meet in their own fashion but its ridiculous to blame the United States for americas mistakes but the mckinsey view of the world here and now everybody likes these things here but you know theyre relatively cheap because theyre made in china not in the United States ok its up to women lets get our most delicious up here. Lets listen lets pose the most obvious question here in your mind is china a threat to the United States you know what i used the word threat you can define the word or however you wish to have him. Well china is lot of threat to the United States because cheney is are acting responsibly and they invested a lot of line in you know the American Security is and they have x. Generationally there now that states their government that is the real threat to them in their states because i have as we have seen with a score. At the dam in this state now has enormous power this power of the state in all the world now is much bigger than the power of the soviet union or its citizens i mean we have seen that the state going to. The state can isolate you from Public Transportation this state can shut down all Small Businesses for weeks sometimes months so when you say its impossible to cut all china well unfortunately it is possible and thats why it is so dangerous and thats why your disorder important because if if there is an economic war against china it will be it will not be a war we can American Economy interest it will be i do always down a rope and you know it made it a couple of just go in one of you what about American Consumers thats the reason why this all happened because americans who are like she stuck her rigorous last 15 seconds here china needs to be punished what is that range of heat in your mind it sounds very colonial to me go here shes a great 88 shes completely can learn to answer your previous question china is no threat to the United States there are no major trees threats to the United States certainly not from china and china recent starting wars all over the place well now but gentlemen we have to go to our breaking out about heart break well continue our discussion on some real news day with our. We go to work so you stay home. Grown person. Dares thinks. We dared to ask. During the vietnam war u. S. Forces are also bombs in neighboring laos it was a secret war and for years the American People did not know. Until our thelma is officially the mouth cavalry band country per capita all Human History millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this Small Agricultural country Jordyn Wieber went on a kind of whats happening there even today kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for that tragedy in laos what help do the people need in that little land on. Welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered remind you were discussing some real minutes. Ok its going to change gears here over the last week its been getting murmurings for the last couple of weeks but its finally happened the United States is deciding to withdraw from the open skies agreement a lot of people may have not heard about this is a very important builder of arms control that we saw negotiated at the end of the last century we can talk about i now we can talk about the new start agreement that is. To be a ballot in the beginning of next year so talk about open skies and couch it in the importance of arms control something that were really in were losing to the detriment of the entire world ahead. Well basically the open skies agreement was signed by russia and its western partners i think 3534 countries in general it was signed in 1902 and by him didnt start or reagan until 2002. Him alone of course it would be mary useful for the west because they would basically mourn and then military action in chechnya and in general of course russia is more vulnerable to open skies agreement you know because we rely on our our own territory to defend our country we dont have bases next to the United States on next door by genscher address or isee in western europe so ways to clear what happened was there there are these agreements unit everyone including Ukraine Ukraine is against the United States even that agreement because then they will be able to fly or were there you know the russian. Military units in in western russia not blame game here i mean we didnt really need to stress or abuse this is like what we call a confidence Building Measure correct absolutely and this is something that not all of the people understand the information that you get from these flights it is available to everyone you have to share it with all because it been seen they dream and then that camera sat sealed by inspectors here theyre controlled by inspect the in the country around you where they are making your money for and why. So its a quantum build unmet measure and the reasons which trump and theyre all provided are ludicrous you know they said that russia does not allow lives or were its a region in cali in grad formally east prussia and all of them or with georgia well the last time the United States had this wide was march in march this year they u. S. Planes and nato planes. You all were mourning during their miters situation there with the border with georgia will remember saakashvili tapped the russian peacekeepers in 2000 agents say though there was a real war there might be even even with this you know this problem was negotiate this is not something that just russians see George SchultzWilliam Perry former u. S. Defense secretary and sam nunn they wrote several articles argument for the present nation and they remain and they all 3 of them said all 3 of them are all that this program was negotiated with russia it could be assault but obviously drawn by the pump there are hell bound on destroying all the arms control so i unfortunately you know the e. U. Says that theyre against him but we know from the experience with the eye and there that the e. U. Mate. May object in the beginning and them dont really know and i think the president from germany at the beginning and then there was a can communicate from the foreign minister somebody youre supporting them and you can position all night in that im afraid the same story make up until that opens. You know its a i think theres a very tragic but again all very predictable john bolton isnt in the white house that bolton is and remains when what is this mantra to dismantle on control because. All of us are more or less the same age on this channel i mean these were all harold this is what is breakthroughs in and going down the path of nonproliferation these are milestones need these were celebrated and now as time passes and because war rivalry of the 20th century is moving further and further in the past people dont understand that nonpolitical politician is if it is important now as it ever was. What how do you explain i think one of the recent is happening is because the United States has become increasingly up in secure about its own military position and as a result its lashing out and one of the ways its lashing out is going straight mean these traces can i say the open sky st he was 1st proposed but you know it states in the 19 fifties and heck the i. N. F. Treaty that we were it was reese is based on proposals made by wrong break in the 1980 s. The a. B. M. Treaty that was scrapped was based on proposals made by the United States in the 1960 s. So all of these traces initially the United States and because of that the United States or itself has been rivalry with the soviet union or even wanted to build confidence within the soviet union had those confidence Building Measures to materially turn vines the basis for ending the cold war that was the. Indispensable foundation and that foundation is been destroyed their full weight come moving back into a situation where International Tensions already weve already talked about the possibility of when you cope well with china in the 1st segment of all progress this is very dangerous and is most alarming since may of all is all of this is happening and western public seems to be completely oblivious series so will and western legacy need to hear writing on discussing will do it is not smart and clever enough they have exactly. These treaties were celebrates it and now that they scratched and its as if nobody cares this is easy credit any dangerous it is any credit. The dangerous take is more he needs to be dangerous in my opinion than the Climate Change issues that we hear so much about. These this weight down all on screen troll is the kindest thing that could lead to a spiraling of International Tensions as we have not seen since the one and that was the whole purpose of having them except as an idea even if i find it really quite remarkable that the lead to arms negotiator to be United States i think its billings leave much if im pronouncing the persons name correctly he said and last few days that they dont want to have an arms race but if necessary we will outspend the chinese and the russians i mean what kind of lunacy is this ok i mean here we have a gloat we have certainly a global recession maybe a depression here the debt devons are being blown all over the place particularly in the United States and they have the cheap arms control they go and let me repeat that the arms control negotiator person who wouldnt want to have arms control saying that you know we could outspend the chinese and the russians again rhetoric from the 1960 s. And 1970 s. And even in the eightys there and let me add to that let me just add that isnt there are voices in the American Administration are talking about and in the Nuclear Test Ban i mean when i read that i my job at the floor i mean whats the why i mean one of the theres a global consensus that you do that you dont do that or very rarely and then you would have to explain why and now thats being thrown absolute weve already mentioned the entire a ray of arms control it existed at the beginning of this century theyre almost completely gone then you can get your head around that more testing go ahead jim. Well there is some merry way of battle or behind it all the latin states are sticks to the agreement when technologically it is and im to just want them to stick to this he believes so as alexander rightly said you know the 1960 s. Then i just days didnt have a b. M. Acknowledge it and im a mystic nice oust prepacked them so they suggested these a. B. M. Treaty which opened war the soviet union and theyre like the states do or you know this balance or fear right and they scrapped it then 2001 when it appears new technology will protect the United States from our own missile i was wrong russia star war has to be yes same story now one of the reasons why the orbital skies agreement has been scrapped by the United States is because they havent you said no i think not would you so they dont need pleats do to control russia. They dont care about quantum sense they dont care about Chrissy Cross city so there is this is a very dangerous leuchter i only stick to the agreements that if you know what you can hear a good mind to just do me and the same story where there is a year by trump that the United States can resume Nuclear Testing for the 1st time since 1902. Me remind you that the organ skies agreement was signed in 1902 right after the end or the cold war. When the orders guys agreement was negotiated nor one who do you imagine that canadian graphics region would be an actual act that it would be surrounded by 2 qantas unfortunately all too the course though russia ball and the little ania at the time used to a new and was still a part of the soviet union ronald and skies were so these people of the day they act. Well something that is to know what to play by yes with them and they completely it is really got history forget what happened just 2 or 3 years ago you know when they say you know what business has russia during ukraine they described 300. 00 at least 300. 00. Years or history the same story with that open skies and kind of you know grab they just forget what what what was there just do it when youre out there and you dont speak yet the man they just simply dont know because they dont take any effort in trying to make here is you know we have one minute left here one of the thing that this is an opportunity ok that is being lost we have. The west is ratcheting up tensions but china now it was an arms control regime was one thing that you know you would always the 2 sides adversaries would come together and because it was their Mutual Benefit this is the time to bring china in and you start and you know pushing ratcheting down these tensions but theyre doing obviously the exact opposite go ahead and get wasted on this idea that you can somehow id spend the chinese and the russians both at the same time and do so on mass producing presumably incredibly dangerous weapons which will lead the way also undermine the whole concept of Nuclear Nonproliferation the Nuclear Nonproliferation treaty its yes its the major powers who would use. You know increase the you know the later after that but over time theyve had to have gentlemen you know one of the many thanks to my guest in london and here in moscow and i think our viewers are watching us here at r. G. P. So you next time remember. You cannot be both with the yeah you like. During the vietnam war u. S. Forces also bomb to neighboring laos it was a secret war. And for years the American People did not know. Until our so much it is officially the most heavily bombed country per capita in appalling Human History millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this Small Agricultural country Jordyn Wieber going to concerts happening there even today kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for that tragedy in laos what help do the people need in that little land on. U. K. Announces this moving to phase 2 of easing it sloped down the families whove lost loved ones to the pandemic say they feel about the. Just i feel dont respect the people that have died and the families behind. Critical time for france as it relaxes it phone lockdown with people flocking out doors to enjoy the springs phone shine medics warn the country could face a 2nd wave of the virus. As long ventilators remain a prime necessity during that time to make out he speaks of those who had a near death experience but lived to tell the tale. I want to have a feeling my comeback from the other side