Elites bioengineer their rescue professor on the trolley even on how the war on Climate Change will be armed by nationalism all the some more coming up in todays going underground but 1st on wednesdays show we interviewed the chief executive of britains kings fund richard mari he said he believes that failures of the 2012 tory health and social care act have been highlighted by the british response to coronavirus and then us in this course you were at mckinsey did you see any understanding or consciousness of these kinds of problems ahead of time given that of course it was the gordon brown government that commissioned a mckinsey report that is widely seen as the beginning of the 20 and 12 health and social care act i was at the can see long before that so i was back in the department of health by the time of the Gordon Brown Administration so i dont think. Because he was very influential on the approach taken by Andrew Lansley hed written up his plans many many years before in response to these allegations mckinsey and company referred us to this statement which says mckinsey does not advise on policy it was not involved in drawing up the proposals in the health and social care bill it is for governor. To set policy. Meanwhile in the past 24 hours in the middle east palestinians and the world socalled largest open air prison of commemorated the 72nd anniversary of the naca without physical protest you to coronavirus at least one ngo an edge is that israel backed by the u. S. And using british weapons is taking advantage of a pandemic to expand settlements illegal under International Law joining me now via skype from haifa in the middle east is historian and author of the ethnic cleansing of palestine professor hanan pappa thank you so much and for coming on you coined the word moammar aside this is been a day like no other except there are reports of an alleged israeli killing of a teenager in the occupied territories record u. K. Arms sales to israel no Public Mobilization remind us of the significance of not by day in the 1st place for palestine and the world. With a commemorates what happened in 148. 00 and all happening only 48. 00 was a crime against humanity that he still denied or not acknowledge even today in that here these are if forces expelled half of palestines percolation the militia type of palestines villages and destroyed most of the palestinian towns it also tried to wipe out the palestinian d from palestine as history and this is actually the real source of their own going conflict not only between israelis d and palestinians but in many other parts of the middle east so theyre not but its there to remind us that there is a huge formative event that happened d more than 70 years ago but when its not a claw its not engaged its very difficult to sort all the other problems the 2nd thing that theyre not but it d does it tells us that the ethnic cleansing of palestine the meaning. d of this project was taking over someone elses land d and getting rid of the people who live there. Its not stopped like the 48 has been going on with different means from like the 40 8 d until today so its a collaboration of the past but its also a call of alert of what goes on even today motivated by the same ideology and policies d of which the persons have been victims for more than 70 years i want to get on to today and israel and palestine but since you mention the word zionism i could tell you the political classes in britain consider even the term often to be used used in the way you just have as anti semitic indeed as a guest ahmed the neighbor leader here is shadow foreign secretary even said to condemn atrocities by israel was antisemitic here so we are in a very strange age where israeli is recognizing the semitism in d order to stifle debate about palestine and d silence d criticism against its policies would be surprising is not so much that is or wants to do it but that so many british politicians and public figures are willing to go along with that of course there is a difference between zionism and judaism and therefore there is a difference between antis and ism semitism in a body of confused as it is either an ignorant person or someone who manipulates the truth in all the not to allow the reality on the ground in palestine to be discussed genuinely and candidly between everyone who is interested in peace and reconciliation in the land when it comes to politics in israel arab m. P. s olive branches after this repeated israeli election the only branches if youve been crushed by benny gantz and architect of the Israeli Military operations of course in occupied territories. Is it true that the Israeli Government and of course my pump. And secretary of state from the United States arrived is it true that the Israeli Government is using coronavirus to annex illegally and x. Person in there and. I think its a bit more complex. This particularly Israeli Government or lets say or the netanyahu government since 2009 being incrementally annexing parts of the west bank kicking out people who live there and actually unilaterally turning at least area seen in the west bank which is 60 percent of the west bank and in total part of a greater israel what has changed with the deal of the century of President Trump and what d we are talking about today is whether this should be declared openly as a Legal Process and now the 1st one the 2nd point is that since 2009 there is no real ideological opposition to the likud the main party which of mr netanyahu is is the leader off and all the attempts like the d last one by guns and his other 3 x. Generals from the d israeli d armys bound to fail because they dont offer an ideological alternative and therefore all that mr netanyahu has to do is to break these coalitions who are peak areas to begin with and hes very successful one should say to the that hes are successful in doing it the coronavirus it was less important i think didnt and you know it was going put into guns to justify a betrayal of his promises to the electorate d never to serve in a netanyahu government that are now would have been where he had been d even without the coronavirus d his main problem is the legal system but it seems so far that d hes been very good in d manipulating that system as well well of coronaviruses transformed then the political fortunes of gansa netanyahu it arguably hasnt changed activities by the Israeli Military what are you making over not only. Israeli airstrikes of course on syria in the past few weeks with an apparent increase in child prisoner detention in the past few weeks apparently in violation of the 4th Geneva Convention of article 76 children as young as 12 being detained by in effect an occupying power. Well it will be in a before whenever there is a restriction in the global in Global Politics in this time the major structuring is the coronavirus then there is a bit of an escalation in the israeli actions on the ground were should be totally clear about it beez actions are brutal and oppressive even without. A crisis like the coronavirus but definitely the israelis are using the international focusing on the crisis of the virus to. To execute policies ready maybe in the past there were more careful in implementing them or at least in implementing them all ready a large scale and it seems that all this is what we see now more arrests of people without trial arrests of children as you have mentioned. Taking over exposure creating land in using force in order to continue an incremental ethnic cleansing of the palestinians in the west bank well the Israeli Government denies all that israeli ambassador to invite on this program which really deny that and while there are shortages of medical equipment and medicines in gaza we havent seen the bombing of schools and hospitals has been enacted by the Israeli Air Force previously. You know has been spared ready this exploitation of for international indifference. Because also there d hamas is not able to continue its struggle under d these d conditions its an absurd situation in a way so far because d castro has not happened in the gaza strip because nobodys d allowed in and nobody d is allowed out under the seat so yes we know how the virus will spread in the world so in a way for a while the people d in gaza were immune but we know the move. This may change as it doesnt have the d Health Infrastructure to deal with it and secondly. The israelis have not changed the policies on the siege and the blockade which has so far create the conditions d d which d the United Nation has described as an d little this is nothing to do with a virus it is d actually far worse than the virus in terms of the potential for human catastrophe well opposition parties in israel would claim to have ideological differences with netanyahu do you think actually they can march when the European Union complains about an edge and accession yet more illegal annexation during the time of coronavirus of west bank land the British Foreign office is James Cleverley has said the britain will not support the annexation while surgery so i can stomach the labor leader remains apparently silent over there is an alleged scandal involving him and money from an edge to israeli lobbyist for me katie to Jeremy Corbyn scores of other m. P. s here are demanding u. K. Sanctions on israel if it continues this an exemption policy well 1st of all there is at least used to be a liberal zionist point of view but it has been diminished as for what you mentioned about britain its a great shame that the politicians in d the labor party and also the liberal party who with a modicum of of decency in them. Ringback voiced. Criticism on israeli policies d showed solely directly with the oppressed Palestinian People but had to pay very high price for that in some cases by who by giving up their political careers i think that its very difficult to see. Where with the brave politicians. Both in the u. K. Any United States emerge from when the lesson they would learn is d that if you d stand for palestine you have to take into account you will be smeared. You will d be intimidated d and everything will be done to destroy you d as a politician i do hope that among the younger politicians there would be such great people because as d we know until now it was actually the very old ones very sunders d and german corey who were willing d to take the risk and in a case of germany maybe even in the case of bernie d they paid a very high price to political price for this kind of or positions and opinions its also the anniversary now im traumas cannot be allowed into the west bank when he wanted to lecture there he of course supported Bernie Sanders now telling people to support a jew biden just finally this weeks pump am visit was it about the deal of the century or was it also about a future war on iran whether the pandemics over or no. Well you never know because you know these conversations can be done by phone so they count it means there is a symbolic value for such a visit its not that they dont have the means of communicating without meeting even the social distancing one with the other but i suspect that was a me they will d discuss syria and iran for sure but i really think it is the american kind of way of saying walk the walk but be careful when you d talk the talk if this is the american d wish for the israelis to to do things but not to openly d shout about them i think they will d learn that these this particular political elite does not believe in search distinction between walking the walk and talking the talk and they would push for clear legislation. More than half of the west bank to be part of the state of israel as a land grab i thank you. Thank you very much after the break as all of nature nation media desperately promotes post pandemic Economic Growth we investigate the roots of covert Climate Change and how a new liberal response may transform the global balance of power forever posable coming up with 2 of going underground. Thats right here h a i r is the Ticker Symbol for harrods a closed and find a new can buy all of the care. That we feature here on this episode of kaiser report its currently trading at a market cap of about 3900000000. 00 but were expecting the fed to come in in front run the market and take us up to a much higher capitalization possibly 7 or 9 trillion dollars. Welcome back this weekend the Extinction Rebellion plans to flood the u. K. Towns and cities with civil disobedience to protest Climate Change credited with catalyzing coronavirus but his new liberal governments try to kickstart their economies politician lobbying elites planning to bioengineer themselves out of climate catastrophe thats what experts in the u. K. Parliament and u. S. Congress professor Anatol Lieven claims his new book is Climate Change in the nation state the realist case and i started by asking him about u. S. Military base in circle mint of china is longer than washington ramp up the threats against beijing well part of the book is about trying to project ourselves 100 years into the future and put ourselves in the shoes of our descendants and think about how they will look at us and i say in the book that several of the. Security issues that obsess western security elites and militaries china is the enemy but but specifically in this case these. Sandbanks and reefs in the South China Sea that the chinese fortification of them to is a threat to the region a threat to the United States a threat to the rules based International Order and of course 100 years from now nobody will think this is significant because that will be under water again in even you saying that none of these brilliant strategic minds that it have it i think tanks that inform through our media Public Discourse didnt the president of the daughter as far as i mean as far as i know im the only security analyst who has talked about this but of course people who are trapped by their traditions you know their conventional inherited thinking about security risks i mean look at nato and its attitudes to russia you know a lot of this could have been simply reproduced from 1955 or just change the date and rather than it being a cultural. Dimension or context you identify and weve actually been hearing it more often on this program a demographic generational probably really is of the problem of how people have grown up in here and i mean one of the points of the book is that its an attempt to shake people both on the right and the left out of these inherited ideological comfort zones or go cold war well on the right i mean and in the military and security establishments yes i mean the obsession with essentially cold war agendas now well the new cold war as they call it against china and russia and on the left you know is an instinctive hostility is to the nation state to National Identity is to nationalism all the things which i say you know we actually need to mobilize in order to. Generate action against Climate Change so of course we had a lot of this debate during the brics it to go she asians and battles in this country where are those who favored remains said we need these super inertial entities like europe the idea of nationalism in the context of betting Climate Change getting really into the debate to explain how nationalism is evident and is also something that has to be harnessed well it really comes from 2 things the 1st is. I believe and i think its pretty obvious its states that will need to take Action International institutions cant actually do anything they can try to mobilize people you know to convince people but in the end its the states that have to raise the taxes that have to change the policies and similarly im in these International Movements which im not against i mean i think theyre very useful most of them but their whole point is to try to push states into taking action and so the next question is well how do you mobilize enough people within states to do that and especially because you know of this die lemma which is being talked about so much that youre asking people to make sacrifices and in the sacrifices are going to be real for the sake of future generations and thats where nationalism comes in because a nation by institute by definition is something that exists in time you know we inherit it from our ancestors we try to pass it on to our descendants and at that point you have an argument for why sacrifice is necessary you want to go on to a kind of flaky left that you are quite harsh on in the book but it was interesting how you said countries like russia countries like canada. Yes there is only operate your lawns of feeling you know things should be warmer in these countries and therefore their environmental records of not being good whereas a country like china which will be quickly impacted by the effects of Climate Change have got more to grips with it i am not sure does that work with india so well because india doesnt seem to be doing things on Climate Change nearly as fast as the communist party of china no i mean well the indian state is of course a lot weaker it doesnt have these despite moodys efforts these kind of authoritarian powers but in relation to indias. Average income it is actually doing a fair amount though interestingly enough this is very closely related to Energy Security as in china too by the way worries about imported oil and gas of course but the really big question is what theyll do about coal you know the scientists the experts are shouting at us that we dont have much time if were going to keep this within safe limits so we really have to think about how we can mobilize enough people and i mean lets face it almost every time western electorates have been faced with a clear choice of making a sacrifice in terms of higher fuel prices carbon taxes theyve said no a majority of gotta find a way of persuading enough of them to say yes because you you are an admirer of Extinction Rebellion of greater thunb are going to those civil disobedience groups or they should tell you theyre on the extremist metropolitan police that you are advocating in this book do you think of that but j. J. This book is from the military Industrial Complex tell me about the surveys youve compiled really from very the one would think of as the most hawkish elements of the military Industrial Complex you have identified exactly what greater sumburgh an Extinction Rebellion of you know what i mean in all the militaries by now im not so sure about iraq. But certainly western militaries i know and the chinese and the indian by the way there are leading figures who really recognise Climate Change as a dire threat to the National Security and even potentially the National Existence of their countries but the problem as i say in the book is that theyve theyve sometimes stated this as a priority but they havent really prioritized because the Weapons Companies are saying dont spend it on that well that is very much part of it but it is also you know that the inherited attitude you say russia is the enemy what russia does in ukraine is by definition a threat to the world and National Security here at home in london for us yes exactly i mean im not defending everything but russia i mean youre saying it is if its so obvious but i mean we have been repeatedly told that obviously the war in iraq afghanistan you itemized the costs of these things a 1000000000 in iraq 21000000000 afghanistan 6000000000 on aircraft carriers 31000000000 maybe on the nuclear these are above the National Security youre saying basically that money needs to go on real the National Security you know much of it but every im not advocating unilateral complete unilateral disarmament for gods sake but i think weve got our priorities seriously wrong and i think even you know a lot of the people who have talked quite firmly about this i mean as they say in america theyve talked the talk but they havent walked the walk you advocate the Green New DealBernie Sanders a deal and a well not not see or at least not how its presented because if youve read the the resolution presented to congress i mean that was absolutely packed with identity politics and they were the Climate Change the Climate Change that yes i mean because its very important to sell this as also about Technological Progress and Economic Growth and no. You know to to try to dispel this right wing line that this is all about destroying the economy and destroying capitalism but also because of the point about sacrifice you know people having to make sacrifices will for that youve got to give people an idea that to some extent these sacrifices are being shared you know by the rich as well as the ordinary citizens i mean the disastrous thing from this point of view is to do what micron did his fuel tax was completely correct in my view but to combine this with ostentatious cuts in Corporate Tax and no at least no strong invisible attempt to go after you know tax evasion and so forth that is politically stupid when it you know you say the tax savings are going to be a huge early part of this huge increase in inequality but then are you just falling between 2 stools here because on the one hand you dont believe proletarian action of the kind by workers who i have to say trump needs for his reelection at the same journey if you dont wont come from them it wont necessarily come from the demonstrations is it in the elite vision of history and the military going to come down on it and save us all well you know quite a lot of the book is about the genesis of the welfare state in europe going back to bismarck not exactly a communist and especially of course looking at it in britain and i think what you see coming together is an elite project backed by intelligent parts of business by the way saying look if we dont provide this for the working class is we going to face a communist revolution which will destroy our whole system. Of interest if you will military establishments who knew damn well from we certainly did after 917 russia putting rifles in the hands of very discontented proletarians is not why is you know for a government but then of course this combined with the movement from below. The socialist Party Social Democratic Party labor party trades unions so i think youve got to youve got to have all of these things because i think given the changes required you know there are going to have to be a lot of pieces coming together to make this work of course you do magic in the book the possibility that elites will realize how important the timescale is of Climate Change and theyll be able to use technology not to revamp the industrial landscape to make it better for the world but revamp themselves personally and be able to bioengineer themselves to not be so affected by the impacts of Climate Change or of course at least if theyre friends of elon musk could get on the space ship and leave the planet but you know i was reading a very interesting account of somebody who was talking to a bunch of california billionaires from this point of view about the future and Climate Change you know the question that they were most interested in how do we ensure the loyalty of our gods about bodyguards you know ok so weve genetically engineered ourselves out of all this and weve created fortresses but gods going to be loyal to us a key point of this book is that capitalism left to itself has never been able to save itself you know from revolution the collapse or whatever its always needed states to step in and not to destroy it to regulate and shape it in wider interest ultimately even if trump wins i dont think youre a fan of trump you appeal to them all of us to remember the mortar of the communist under new gramsci that we have to somehow be present is strictly its a lecture about it and be optimistic about the world what do you think ultimately if you put your cards on the table it is time running out. Too quickly for us to be able to cope with the graphs being given us i mean the trajectory. Its look bad but on the other hand i mean the predictions of whats going to happen. If we dont keep this within limits are so dreadful that i dont think we have the right to despair and we have the moral rights as citizens and as educated human beings as parents you know we. Throw up our hands and say oh its too late to do anything let it go if you feel some commitment to country and you want to send and you have no right to despair professor around it will even thank you professor alan ball even speaking to me that and his book Climate Change in the nation state the realist case is out now and thats it for the show well be back on monday just me to the primatologist your redefined humanity dr jane goodall about how the destruction of the Natural World could lead to the next pandemic until then wash your hands and join the underground on you tube twitter sound cloud facebook and instagram. You cannot be both with the yeah youre right. With the failings of the Us Health System exposed by the break for Health Officials warn that things will only get worse if the government doesnt bring about rustic change. It has is that we dont have a universal Health Care System in the United States tens of millions of people have no Health Insurance at all and our Health Care System is really based on profit and not based on the health of people. Either. Hundreds of americans protests against the law. Its not just facebook adds fuel to the rim