Transcripts For RT Going Underground 20240713

Criminal Police Organization interpol issues a global red notice against the suspected cia spy. For allegedly murdering british teenager harry dunn we speak to his familys lawyer Geoffrey Robertson q. C. About what happens to law during coronavirus from jury trials to the u. K. Torture of judy in the sun and from brazil to burning injustice and with the u. K. One of the worlds worst hit countries is Boris Johnsons government following the science of following private health care and big pharma personnel we are the kings fund chief executive Richard Murray also more coming up with todays going underground but 1st what will the law sting human rights legacy be of growing a virus joining me now from london is the world renowned human rights barrister has defended everyone from wiki leaks founder Julian Assange to brazilian president lula cofounder of dow the street chambers Jeffrey Robinson q. C. Jeffrey thanks for coming back on before i even get to coronavirus actually want to do. About terrorism given youve had defended people unjustly accused of terrorism but lets go to the cia which as theoretically protects us from terrorism just take us through the interpol red notice this week on a case of a tragic killing in this country of a british subject by an alleged cia spy well or tactic is certainly the word for it it was a 19 year old boy on a bike and a car large american car came at him on the wrong side of the road and he was killed not over and died in agony later that night and his parents see justice the driver of the car around and circle as was a cia wife probably operative in the times and she was there a quickly taken out of the country by. Her american boss was followed by her husband shes guilty shes admitted she was driving on the wrong side of the terrible accident cause but. The rule of law has any meaning she should be cool people are judged shes charged with causing death by dangerous driving if the cuckoo satisfied that it was an accident then its likely that she will noncustomer the same and it must go i explain this to her lawyer the lawyer rang me and i said look im acting to the done family and i can tell you that its very likely that your client will get accustomed to sense even though the maximum of the hate is called teen years but no one ever gets the maximum and i. 2 of the penknife in she saying and mike are saying no hootie. Are too heavy for this and when we made any written made an extradition request of pay or tore it up you said this is abusive even though 14. 00 times over the last few years britain has waived diplomatic immunity to allow the embassy people to append in washington to be prosecuted because no quid pro quo the americans are holding out insisting that she should be above the law of course this. Is going to me that she can travel outside america because it puts a lot of litigation on any country where she lands to hand her over so that the international. Action by interpol so are you currently representing the done yes there is a case in concerning whether he is or was in fact immune as a diplomats wife the interpol intervention is very important because it brings her to one to america that you just cant do this to an alibi you cant pretend that your people who are in britain spying on your concern for the crowd and. Pretend that about the law or you cant behave as if they are you see that you made the accusation that she may be a cia agent we write a cia novel absconds age well the cia have previously come back to going underground before i dont think theyre coming back at them. And we always invite them and the u. S. Ambassador on there is me there is me no proof no proof she works for the cia and the idea that interpol can issue a red notice against a member of the cia presumably will provide laughter in the department of justice in the United States where they do it i think its a move serious step but she is certainly the wife of a cia operative if you like at cry out. And to allow the parents that a court and hopefully and they have made it clear. They want to embrace every move she comes and and apologizes she has in print this is a matter of simple humanity on National Security issues Boris Johnson has never National Security Council Meeting since february since the beginning of the outbreak of corona virus as i said youve defended so many people unjustly accused and convicted of terrorist offenses wheres all the terrorist threat gone suddenly has it been as coronavirus revealed that a lot of it is exaggerated i think one of the most amusing and ironic aspects of this red flu crisis was quite early on when it was discovered that ice it was telling its operatives avoid europe you could get the virus so thats why perhaps theyve been so quiet theyre really cowards when it comes to a bioterrorist if not it when it comes to blowing themselves up and we are now are almost as worse off in terms of deaths in america i think the mistakes we have made will need looking at you dont theres not much were lawyers to do in the middle of the rhetoric but they come back. And there will have to be a Royal Commission into how we was so unprepared and how we made so many choices in the early days of barras well there have been indications from ever elusive downing street sources there will be an independent inquiry of theyll have me. I shove them lightly iraq war alone it doesnt go on as long well i should just add of course there was a terrorist attack allegedly claimed to be a nice attack in afghanistan in the last 4848 hours or terrorism isnt going away in the global south i want to get to the lore that is being talked about here though actively its been 2 months since a little wales at a jury trial would you make of lord chief justice lord burnette supporting a reduction of joris from 12 to 7 doesnt seem to be passing but where apparently about to resume jury trials would you have won your cases in 17 years here i would hope so but if eat whatever we do we have to face the fact burke in britain trial by jury is a rucked and you cant in this country resurgence to more than a year in jail without the option of putting your case to 12 good men and women and true that i think corona virus or not must be the case but of course there are 30000 people waiting for their trial and magna carta our other christian right says to no one showed justice be denied we were delayed and hand it is being delayed because jury boxes are small you sit cheek by jowl with each other with the 7 or 12 you expect to rape 2 opponents each other as you move through guilt or innocence and this just work perhaps until we get a vaccine one suggestion has been birthed true juries try that when another suggestion is to be to have the jury in a big building in a great mood. So she. Disc. Another suggestion which i think is got something going poor it is to have jewelry waiver which is a system they havent had no during the last trade and that means an additional right who will be defended not only those the dependent have a right to choose a jury trial but he or she also has a right to choose by judge alone but jeffrey youve been a vocal critic of austerity says 2008 and the cuts to the legal aid surely that would mean a defendant perhaps under duress to try and gather their block who have a tight judge never under you rexs group being entirely as it is to straighten canada or us tire of a matter of the defendant with his own counsel is available politicians lup just as with minister it when they cut legal aid the danger is that they will go we can do away with jury trials and have judges much cheaper to do it its not we must. Past against that no sign of the abandonment of jury trial yet from the johnson government but as you say tens of thousands of cases on hold because of coronavirus its worse arguably in other countries in india 30000000 in brazil reportedly 80000000 cases on hold and of course you remember 0 its terrible there goes the their lead. A man whos a raving who my bowl sonora who says oh its only a little blue a man who. Invites friends to barbecues why. People are dying but theres an interesting Political Development but also narrow his position to a man who mauro who is a prosecutor a hopefully bias judge who. Put together what in my view of fabricate charges against little or more who has made his move was always in his mind was the reason why theres a bias judge convict namely a move for president because hes resigning as attorney general and is now are making statements security olsen are ineffective high crimes and misdemeanors which. Result in both being impeached could wrote good morrow or work with preservation love former brother left name it they they are sworn at him. Because it was more for his own ambition and he wants to be president there will have to be certainly in a couple of years time a new election president that election will i suspect be between you more of. The biased judge prosecutor and lula and i should just say that of obviously you defended loon i debated llewelyn i giving my own opinion exactly which are we invite the brazilian ambassador on this program i should say also this occurs during a coup attempt in venezuela jeffrey wrote and ill stop you very more from the world renowned human rights lawyer after this short break. Through descriptions sound appetizing even for the owners so how to choose the head Food Industry is telling us what to feed our pets really more based on what they want to sell us the most this. Certainly good for the pet turns out and pet food may not be as healthy as people believe and we have animals that have you know diabetes in arthritis and they have auto immune disorders allergies we are actually creating these problems and its a huge have a democrat problems all of them i believe can be linked to fairy simple problems of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets last treats to larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because theyre already making a 1000000000. 00 on it and theres no reason to do that research. Welcome back im still here with world renowned human rights lawyer Geoffrey Robertson q. C. In ecuador apparently a girl in a virus impact being criticized widely it was across the Ecuadorian Embassy in london where julia songe of wiki leaks was incarcerated allegedly tortured and produced as we now find 2 children. Exactly that theyre for the news that we have shares that love will find a way even past the cia and the British Police well i got to ask you about the say that case obvious hes a leader of the opposition was out of the c. B. S. When as we know attempts were made to incarcerated julian is under wiki leaks why is there nothing really being said by as against armor president perhaps for victory because he was of a c. B. S. And Boris Johnson joining this case that is were hearing in the courts here in britain is a different case that in those days the reef case sure is basically about the extradition. But as far as the americans were they buy that pack they had a secret jury grand jury sitting and it wasnt until to the end they were hes denying they were in any way wanted him but of course they did the pentagon who want to punish him for blowing the whistle they want to punish him for his leaks in 2010 there were apparently disability to buy his source chill see mammy and they got their hands on Joseph Manning and they jailed 30 years were not going to speed up a little jeffrey just Chelsea Manning obviously been released what is your understanding of the case of currently currently underway there who is and who is known as a beret widely criticized for deciding not to release a sergeant compassionate grounds from a prison belmarsh where i understand one place though not in free people are gone down with her own person has died of corona virus and here is that i think that. I think its cruel what is cruel is the fact that hes charged with a pencil rain totaling 175 years he wont get the expert josee manning got years as he saw so the likelihood is that if extradited we will get about 15 years what for for exposing the truth and you issue is whether america is seeking this extradition for political purposes and whether it is an infringement of freedom of expression but the problem is it starts again hearing evidence and. It could go on for a couple of years and there is this man whos not. Fully yet can be made subject to all sorts of late bracelets and Electronic Devices to ensure that he never steps outside. And be. In britain for 2 to 3 years before the case is decided jever oh its a case if they care. The care the highest coronavirus death toll in europe despite Boris Johnsons government insisting it was well prepared for the pandemic but according to German Government supporting labor politicians johnsons covert policy is now a thinly veiled declaration of class war joining me now via skype from london is the kings one chief executive Richard Murray thank you so much richer for coming on so some people are estimating 5 percent of all care home elderly people are being killed by covais that want to get a class war thats going to demographic war your senior fellow professor richard im for is claiming it was a sophies choice the canting infected elderly patients or hospitals to care of some test. To then with temperatures and go to leaven suggests well i think 2 things of happened in care homes and the 1st certainly is a real pressure from the n. H. S. At the start of a code epidemic in england of getting people out of hospital some of them into their own homes but also some of them into care homes and i think we really need to know exactly how often were people sent out with some degree of symptoms and what help care homes were given what were hearing is anecdotal and in many cases that the pressure to free up beds in the n. H. S. Led to patients being discharged into care homes but possibly without the kind of infection security controls that really should have been in place given youre at the kings fund is that credible there was certainly was a huge push in the n. H. S. To trying to clear our capacity at the same time we did need to follow up very quickly with what help and what support care homes would be given not only because patients are being discharged from hospitals but simply because there is such high risk anyway of their own star of relatives going in and out of the care home and possibly bringing in the disease you see a lot of people are talking about the fact that these questions really need to be raised at a future independent inquiry rather than now whats your opinion because arguably care homes the elderly theyve been worst hit by purse 28 austerity is a war and has this been a war only elderly in the city well actually if you look at. Incomes of the big recession in 2008 the elderly actually did rather better through that it was young people in particular that took the brunt so i dont think theres been a war on the elderly in that way but there clearly needs to be some way of learning the lessons that coded from the coded pandemic and we got to remember that its not that everything was perfect when this began in february things like the relationship between care homes and the n. H. S. Have been approached. And for a very long time there was almost a breakdown in relationship with general practitioners early in the year about who was going to provide care in care homes but what i really want to get to i suppose is was this a delivery deliberate choice by the British Government back in 2014 you said tory government de facto slashing of n. H. S. Services to fund the Bank Bailouts was a Political Choice despite what you just said about the elderly the un special rapporteur on poverty said the elderly were subject to the Political Choice of the immiseration of the vulnerable and of course there are many more people that are vulnerable than the elderly. People with Mental Health conditions with physical disabilities so the elderly are one group that are vulnerable but they did get something from protection through this period the poor in general did not its the case that the system that we were in by the time of february covert arrived was leaving a lot of Like Services and a great deal of difficulty and h. S. Was actually slightly protected against many other social care definitely was not elements of support for low income people to flee was not so the covina rind it was already dealing with a society in a country that had some real vulnerabilities in it the reason i am focusing on the poor as your will well know is that the kings one was founded in the 1900 centuries to focus on the poor as access to health care is it difficult for the kings fun to be independent when your funded by matt hancock who of course gives us these briefings about coronavirus well fortunately for the kings fund what we were set up we were given a foundation and that gives us a significant degree of independence and we ensure that we are we do draw income from other sources whether its research or the things that no one of them is big enough that we could live without it and. That secures our independence and if you again look back to the things they said in 2014 were clearly not shy of criticizing the government when we think it should be but do you believe that the landmark social health care or social act 2012 do you think that that has dictated our response to coronavirus the privatization or as john pilger the veteran journalist said on this program the dirty war on the n. H. S. That that act. Was symbolic of. The 2012 act we think what was not a success it was in many ways set the n. H. S. In the wrong direction on a path of competition we really wanted was needed was better integration of services and weve been very clear about that i think what were seeing through the coronavirus is one more of it unfortunate legacies for ever for the system is the n. H. S. Is governed as a as a separate body of course care homes or social care theyre largely commissioned by local authorities and that division i think has been one of the reasons why the system struggled so hard to really provide a unified view that brought together the n. H. S. That brought together social care that brought together Public Health because you are at mckinsey did you see any understanding or consciousness of these kinds of problems ahead of time given that of course it was the gordon brown government that commissioned a mckinsey report that is widely seen as the beginning of the 20 and 12 or health and social care act i was at mckinsey long before that so i was back in the department of health by the time of the Gordon Brown Administration so i dont think. Because he was very influential on the approach taken by Andrew Lansley he written up his plans many many years before really back in the blair administrations you could see the proposals coming from Andrew Lansley which was really in many. As a continuation of the policies that the labor government introduced competition choice the coalition didnt invent those the challenge really with all of those was with an ageing population increasing long term conditions competition just wasnt the right model what you needed was to try and build links between services between g. P. s between hospitals between social care and trying to integrate plan it was the way forward rather than trying to create a competitive market so who actually is guiding this science that the government has been saying it is following mckinsey obviously have advised a Big Pharmaceutical Companies and went sabbatical and speaks he was a scandal hit j. F. K. When similar chris when he speaks he works or has got funding from the bill Gates Foundation when the deputy c. M. O. Jonathan mann tam speaks he used to work with a ventus known for the philippine safety scandal what exactly is britain getting in terms of scientific advice is it the advice of people who have previously been on the payroll of companies implicated in 100000000 dollar scandals. I think the world of. Advanced science is not a particularly big one so you will find through peoples careers that theyve been in academia theyve been they work for the pharmaceutical industry theyve also provided advice to the government i know the japanese own Financial Times modeling says its maybe 50000. 00 or more deaths from coronavirus obviously taking excess death numbers in but if you believe the government figures at least the Health Care Service death rate is not disproportionate to the population but we youre aware the government had rejected p. P. Recommendations back in 2017 when jeremy hunt was Health Secretary jeremy hunt of course now head of the Health Select committee charged with interrogating presumably matt hancock. About his performance during this epidemic no we werent aware and i think some of the issues around planning for an emergency again one of the things will need to see is just how austerity few played into that maintaining big stockpiles are there of pharmaceuticals in which would have been done particularly against the potential of a flu pandemic is one thing also things like p p clearly i think we can say that if you look at the responses that have been made by places like south korea by singapore by taiwan they seem to be better prepared than certainly the United Kingdom but also probably most of western europe have also struggled with some of these issues so theres a potentially good there to austerity of course happy b. Theres a scandal according to a lot of british Mainstream Media that the p. P. Was out of date so i come back you said austerity is this a class war is it incompetence on the part of the Boris Johnson government or is this a deliberate herd immunity strategy designed to kill off the vulnerable in the poor i dont think. Thats the thats the case i think the herd immunity ideas even prisons around i dont think it survived as a concept for very long before curve it came along it was very very well known that lower people with lower incomes have shorter lives spend more of their lives in ill health the current course isnt unusual in that it hurts poor d more Vulnerable People more and its an area that we struggle to make much progress and thats despite the n. H. S. So code in the us isnt something you its unfortunately played on the same fault lines that we see in other areas of care and general Life Expectancy across different social groups rich or murray thank you. And thats over the show will be back on saturday to speak about the language of justice to israeli historian dylan pathway 10 years to the day when the father of modern linguistics nontraumatic he was refused entry to the west bank by the u. K. Back to slightly government until then what you had to join the underground on you tube twitter sound bad facebook and instagram. You could buy it is the. Police do you think. Or operation in. Some of the wealthier neighborhoods its been far more contained and the numbers are much lower than some of the more a neighborhood star city is because we think were working with can source outside of the state is there just so anything here so like anything out of. The. Well coming up viewers from around the world live from Central London this is our to u. K. Workers across england are encouraged to head back to their jobs despite the ongoing violence crisis with the unions accusing the government of putting commuters lives at risk as experts predict to simply hit to the economy after the code crisis has subsided it will be to the former business secretary and ex libyan leader surveillance cable very shortly. The government stands accused of being too slow to protect care home residents thats his relatives threaten to sue a council after one facility prepares to accept a couple of the clinic bombers patients here for months old my labor m. P. And from a doctor. Beat by a Security Center and of monitoring the coronavirus threat level is set up headed by the man to be the u. K. s top spine here for an Emergency Management expert in the legs. And britains opposition to secure star overtakes Prime Minister in terms of popularity this is constructive forensic approach to the bars crisis is praise we get reaction from polling expert professor said john curtis. The government has urged those in england who cant work from home during the Coronavirus Crisis to return to their jobs but packed public transport has left the unions accusing the Prime Minister of risking Public Safety it comes amid a financial doomsday predictions which suggest the british economy could shrink by up to a quarter or he said and he joins me now with the latest so you say back to work hasnt really gone to plan as such as it. No absolutely todays the day when the government changes and easing the if you will of those lockdown measures come into effect and people will be now allowed suit for example exercised for the limited amounts of Time Outdoors before it was only one piece of exercise daily that you are allowed out for one time out of your homes people also will be allowed to meet up with another person who doesnt live within their household all over again and they are encouraged to do it outdoors d and observe social distancing proportions but perhaps the biggest change will be people being encouraged to go back to work if they cant work from now this is led to some scenes on the Public Transport Network weve seen buses packed with people who are getting to work the government encouraging people to get the boss of the train or to cycle walk to work to where they caught they are forced into the buses and the trains and thats led to these images of packed people on that unions also have reacted with anger saying that this is simply unsafe both for people who get on the buses and the trains and also for the people who work on them and also away from transport if people are going back to work well then what happens to their children schools arent touted to start until june so there are going to be a number of people who are going to have to look for all tatted sitch ald care arrangements while they would stand back to work and this is an issue which the labor leader kissed or were raised with the Prime Minister. A real concern for many people is child care i want to quote a mother of a young child apologize but its a little of 3 but it reflects the curse that will members of this house will have been getting she says this. Has boris set in his speech people are encouraged to go back to work meeting my partner as he works in construction my partner has explained to his boss this cant happen because weve got no childcare he also run the nursery but then open i work as well but my boss is having none of it i hope i can get some advice man my partner been so stressed over. What advice with a promise to give her. Prime minister and i think i was very clear a both with him and with the house earlier in the week that insofar as people may not be able to go back to work because they dont have the childcare that they need then their employers must be understanding now of easing of some of these lockdown motions only applies to england because the other home nations all that island d wells got and continue to encourage people to stay home as opposed to the governments will westminster encouraging people to stay low but essentially begin to slowly get life back to normal now the s. And ps colors the dirty and blocks that each suit when its a head with the Prime Minister raised this very point. Events on sunday could not have been more disastrous from this government the Prime Minister has made confusion costly devolved administration shuttered widespread confusion amongst the public and a total disregard for this government for worker safety many sadly have seen the images of london buses being packed this morning mr speaker will the Prime Minister accept that the clear message in scotland is stay home to protect the n. H. S. To save lives i must say i dont accept the characterization of the corporation that weve had across the one issues that are the leader of the s. N. P. And makes now the government have tried to dispel so got confusion by offering. Sharon c. With regards to regulations to employees they include encouraging employers to try to continue. Things like social distancing not work moving desks away from each other putting barriers between workers where possible and so on all of that to help the government d says employers to try to minimise the spread of coded 90 and he said were hearing about the Economic Impact to all of this is having now. Absolutely alongside of course the devastating human toll that the corona d virus has waged upon the British Public there is also of course the economic question to be answered and what damage whether short or long lasting d that will coupers now a real office of National Statistics theyve released some new data trying to analyze what impact that 19 has had so far now if we take a look at these figures they are quite stark so the ins reports that the year case Gross Domestic Product g. D. P. Dropped finally 6 percent in march alone now to put that into perspective during the financial crisis 20082009 the u. K. G. D. P. Dropped by 6. 9 percent so only slightly more about was over the course of many months leading into d tow 2009 there was a bit raechel declined in the Construction Service industries with car sales and restaurants also having been hit hard of course many of those industries being closed and the bank of england of predicted that the economy in total could shrink by as much as 25 percent when all is said and done and all of that leading to indications that the suffering could be a lot more not a turn than many would have thought. He says thank you very much indeed for that update well for more on this im not joined by the former u. K. Business secretary said vince cable surveillance thank you so much for being with us now we have to get the economy going but the scenes from public transport this morning are quite frankly a rendez ali well the return to work was bound to be messy just some extent risky. Except we should be terribly surprised ability people have been very active in things like home work and i dont see why employers and their unions shouldnt start thinking about staggering work times on things of this kind which will make this kind of them seemingly crouse and not happen again people have been able to work of course as you say from home but the economic fallout from this crisis and it looks as if it could be worse than the virus itself. Well it will be i mean wait were going to out you know 23 years of her endless economic damage and in the current picture is this in a 2nd cool whip probably going to cover for g b p from day trend of about trying to drive dissent we have no idea what will happen in the next part of the year but recovery is unlikely to pay dramatic so we may be talking a loss of 1015 percent of the year is a which is twice 3 times as bad as the financial crisis and out thats what were looking at senate and its its practical consequences are not scant on employment large numbers of insolvent companies and a burden of debt on Individuals Companies and governments stretching 3 years ahead its not a not so rosy outlook and you can understand what they government least going to get an economy moving again and how should it be doing that because of course there are some sectors are worse hit than others Hospitality Business example are not the better operate for you till the end of the year how can the government help them survive. Well they are doing with the furlough scheme and night on this attempt it was very good that it was extended yesterday mitch met mark more flexible for part time working on of course there are these guaranteed loans which should be in less efficient but now that the governments covering 0. 10 you know that much more attractive to the banks to distribute in companies to take them up so you know i dont criticize what the governments down in terms of intervention but i think the whole assumption behind what theyre doing is that this is a very short term exercise is and they potentially alarming future is that its friends are to very much a longer period that we get a w. Shaped around shaped recovery rather than the v. That everybody hopeful so you are not critical of the way the governments intervene at the moment but looking further ahead how will the government able to manage this economic crisis were facing but i didnt the big issue which isnt being talked about very much is the relationship between the governments managing of it through the budget and the government is allowing a big deficit jumps at the right trying out quite a lot of Government Debt which is inevitable and what happens in the bank of england in the cost of the government event of england has been giving support to monitor policy in the Interest Rates q. E. I think and i wrote an article in the independent this morning arguing that just going to have to go a step further and you know effectively monetize the debt there are various subtle ways of doing it and i dont think we can do this in a traditional way and i think they the Central Banks including the bank of england understand that but they are reluctant to say so publicly because they dont want politicians rushing money on everything just 1. 00 brief point higher taxes for everybody is that one solution that were going to be facing well i would hope not in certainly until economies fully recover it. When the worst thing that can happen is if we start to recover people get back to work but we still love high unemployment and then the government files on strict financial policy that then aggravates recession that would be a very bad way of doing it you know we may need taxes for reasons of trend and some people are really suffering or those people are doing very well and we need to redistribute income and wealth but thats a rather different question than just tiling on the burden of taxation i dont think theres any demand for that in the forseeable future so bents cable thank you so much for your time really good to talk to you today thank you and britains Opposition Leader has clashed with the Prime Minister of the government advice on care homes in initial stages of the Coronavirus Crisis secure stomach also accusing government of overseeing the discharge of coronavirus patients back into corns putting residents at risk. Earlier this year until the 12th of march the governments own official advice whirls and im quoting from it it remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home will become infected. Yesterdays ins figures show that at least 40 percent of all deaths from covert 19 were in care homes just the Prime Minister except that the government was too slow to protect people in care homes it wasnt true that the advice actually we brought locked down in care homes ahead of the of the general lockdown misspoke or im surprised the promise to. Where is the advice of his own government up to the 12th of march the david tyree graph this week carried the following quote from a cardiologist. We discharged node suspected an unknown cases into care homes which were unprepared with no formal warning that patients were infected no Testing Available and no p. P. To prevent transmission we actively seeded this into the very population that was most vulnerable does the Prime Minister except that the cardiologist is right about this actually the number of discharges from hospitals into into care homes went down in march and april and we had a a system of testing people going into care homes and that testing is now being ramped up across all the 15000 homes its emerged that storm is version of the government advice was right and hes written to the Prime Minister calling for him to correct the record the notice that was published in february and then withdrawn on the 13th of march did say that there is currently no transmission of covert 19 in the community its therefore very unlikely that anyone receiving care in a care home all the community will become infected now the town has rejected the labor leaders calls. When it comes as research by the London School of economics reveals that actual care homes death figures could be more than double the official numbers it claims more than 22000 residents may have died as a result of the virus on official figures published by the office for National Statistics say that there were more than 8000. 00 grand a virus related deaths in care homes up to the 1st of may now that is more than 40 percent of the overall number of covert 19 fatalities meanwhile relatives are threatening to sue darvish accounts on after virus free white stones care home prepares to accept patients who have recovered from corona virus one and after leave hospital but not one of the to go straight home or to be admitted to a specific isolated wing for further treatment the council says that no patients will be moved before being tested but its director for social care did admit it could happen before results are known current guidance is clear that the current expectation of the government is that hospital patients will be required to have a test for corona virus prior to being discharged but that people can be discharged to home pending the test result former labor m. P. For high peak ruth george told me earlier that there is so much that the government should have done and care homes like this one simply arent prepared trouble is that they dont have an additional set of staff to care for those patients who are likely still to be contagious with their own a virus so their star will be going in and caring for the haitian someone and then the Residential Home to see very elderly and frail Vulnerable People the next day and its not so good way to try and keep the virus out so that. Joined by former chairman of the independent Doctors Federation dr martin skirt he told me that there are reasonable alternatives to placing recovering patients into camps. Too little is known about the virus the accident was all on creating the wherewithal in intensive care units in acute hospitals and the care homes were. Really a 2nd terror concern and we knew so little about the virus at that point about whether people might still carry it when theyve recovered and about the other aspects of the infection that the whole thing passed the politicians by is what i suspect and as a doctor what more do you really know about this because if someone is recovering from the virus and theyre actually or indeed how are doing to recovered and returning to a care home from hospital how great is the transmission risk we dont know the figures we know for certain that when patients have recovered they may still be excrete in the virus and it was hoped that after 7 days that people would not do so but we know that some do and therefore in dealing with the tension between people whove recovered and you need care of some sort well they convalesce Old Fashioned term but convalescence is certainly needed and the people in their care home who are very very vulnerable. The care home residents are the priority and the only way in which a discharged patient from acute care could go into a care home even into a separate building on the campus would be if theyve been tested and the result is available anything else in my view is a dereliction of duty it transgresses every aspect of medical ethics what would you like to see the government do now to protect care home residents. I think we should not allow recovered patients even with negative tests to to be admitted to care homes there is a solution here which is to look at muffled hotels they have staff who can feed and care for such patients and it would be a very reasonable alternative the facilities are available it just takes organization to achieve it more news after a short break. We go to work so you can stay home for. Sophie wrong. Roles just dont hold. Any long beliefs yet to shape our disdain for conflict adjective and engage with equals betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart. Just to look for common ground. With good reason Public Discourse is focused on a dressing and finally each containing the kobe 1000. 00 pandemic now the focus is on devastated economies where the recession will it morphed into a depression will the recovery be a u. D. Or an elf. Can come. The independent bio Security Center to monitor the threat of covert 19 is being overseen by a senior counterterrorism official tom hurt whos in the running to become the next head of m i 6 will be heading up the office the hub will assess the changing threat level posed by coronavirus to help the government plan its route out of lockdown it will follow the same logic as the Terrorism Analysis Center ranking risk is low moderate substantial severe or critical. And that is Boris Johnson has been criticized for ignoring terrorist threats r. T. Counsels another National Security Council Meeting having not met since february the government blames the pandemic but critics are warning National Security cannot be postponed and the n. S. C. Greatly assists the government in Cross Whitehall coordination of responses to acute an ongoing challenges and raise awareness of wider National Security threats which otherwise might be overlooked if he does not meet these call decisionmaking functions are not guaranteed to take place to the same effect for more all of us im not joined by professor of risk and disaster reduction at University College london David Alexander david great of you to be with us shouldnt we have a scientist in charge of assessing the risk of corona virus in our counterterrorism official i mean after all the government is guided by the science. Well actually i believe that we should have an expert in militancy planning or management in charge of it and postal the i think the governments biggest mistake so far has been to sideline marginalise and starved of funds emergency plan here management which in fact had many of the answers to the problems that the country has faced and faced very badly as well so do you think that this idea this perhaps a chance of or maybe a possibility replacing sage that this is a good idea replacing scientists with Civil Service no i dont think its a good idea or a time when we have to have the scientific advice i would hope that the new center will not replace scientists but call them in and utilize them on the other hand what will it do for emergency planners and monisha was we didnt have the plans we didnt have the knowledge and we had a full scenario for a pandemic somewhere like 15 years before it actually happened and moreover substantial warnings were given out in exercise cygnus the reports are greater was published without the will 30 of the government incidentally but a few days ago and it is indeed quite revealing for example europe it discussing the care home problem and that is all in the reports on picture size sickness in other words the government were fully alerted to the risk because that was part of the planning scenario that was not really taken into account well can you give us an idea of the the other advice you would have given all should have been taken by the government during this what what what else did you plan for and and what would you have liked or seen being exercised during this right now in the 1st place its not that im trying to minimize the importance of the medical underpaid time your logical information which is of course vital but it is also highly it determined that they dont have the answers or at least they dont have. Enough of the answers never the less we have had a scenario which was made up over the period 2003 to 2009 by a number of people working in a variety of disciplines indeed across disciplines and what they were trying to russert say these were what would the needs be when we have a pandemic we knew we were going to have one and it was highly likely that it would be a bad one note also that the governments own risk register since 2010 has opened their mix up at the top of the list of the risks that the u. K. Faces so far we had the scenario which told us this is what you would need to do in the case of a pandemic this is what you would need to look out for this is what you would need to arrange and that is across a wide variety of different fields in modern life from the economy social psychological care homes hospitals and so on and so just briefly would your plan of save more lives but its not my plan in fact it was a commonly held plan made internationally and then incorporated into a variety of National Plans mostly over the period 200522010 i believe that if that plan had been properly utilized rather than there being an obese between the planning and the implementation of the plan then yes lives would have been saved in quantity professor David Alexander fascinating to talk to you on this thank you for being with us live here in r. T. K. Thank you. They believe the sickest illness has become more popular with the public and the Prime Minister for the 1st time ever according to you gulf poll 40 percent think thats a kid is doing fairly well all very well with just under 20 percent believing the opposite slightly more 60 percent think the Boris Johnson is performing fairly well all very well but many also think he isnt means that the leader of the opposition has overtaken the Prime Minister in terms of net Approval Rating with starman plus 23. 00 and johnson a point behind having taken the reins of the labor party join the Current Crisis securest said he doesnt want to oppose the government for its own sake but will robustly challenge it. We were slowing to look down slow on testing slow and protective equipment and now slow to take up these offers from british but this day at this stage i do think Good International comparisons and the data is yet that we drove the conclusions that we want mr speaker the argument that International Comparisons commonly be made when the governments been using slides like this for weeks to do International Comparison just really doesnt hold water in the document i found it says that workplaces should follow the pope and secure guidelines which i got on as soon as practicable. But under page 20 to 22 it says they will be released later this week politics professor imposing expensive john curtis told me that the current state of the house of commons since the labor leader much more all than the Prime Minister. All i can say is that he starts off in the right place having desperate seems odd but the truth is that you know that when its a kids key job is to begin to impress him self in his personality on the British Public and of course the fact that we are in the midst of a Public Health crisis does make it more difficult for him to get the ad side and the populist stage than he otherwise would have was will get except he has one had thought he chucked it this of course the Prime Ministers questions which youve been playing clips is a very very Different Event at the moment from watching usually is a its a very small number of a piece on the cheering and the bowing is not present and this is playing just a kids advantage because of course by trading hes a lawyer he is used to asking questions here schuster asking all across tunes that hes lost a good outfit in contrast of course one of the things that Boris Johnson is known for is that he stole all rhetoric but not always going to have. More news in health and. Good food descriptions sound up the even for the owners so how to choose the pet Food Industry is telling us what to feed our pets really more based on what they want to sell us than was necessarily good for the pet turns out may not be as healthy as people believe and we have animals that have you know diabetes and arthritis and they have auto immune disorders theyve got allergies we are actually creating these problems and its a huge epidemic of problems all of them i believe can be linked to very simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets less treats the larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because theyre already making a 1000000000. 00 on it and theres no reason to do that research. Hello again welcome to crossed off were all going to consider it im Peter Lavelle with good reason public