Transcripts For RT Going Underground 20240713

A situation of uncertainty where we can not calculate all risk but where we can know things and also to relax a little bit and do reasonable decisions or it decisions that proof fundamentally and this again in the context of for instance masses of numbers of ventilators were bought for corona virus that it turns out we dont need why are we more scared of what is less likely to kill us the key problem you know society is that we all have learned how to read and write but not to become risk literate at least to understand the numbers so the numbers that made us feel the numbers of infections or this and also to understand the kind of thinking about what might lead to ward. Youve talked articulately how to interpret mammogram results cancer risk flu risk which ill get onto in a moment have i better just ask you then are we more scared than we should be about coronavirus theres nobody who came to tell you exactly where this virus is growing so we need to live with uncertainty but we can protect us against. Reactions that creates more problems so the classy consideration of the obvious 911. 00 Many Americans after 911. 00 stopped flying and what to do they use the chorus instead ive underlies the traffic statistics and followed that for 12 months the most recent went up about up to 5 percent mostly on a Long Distance traveling and during that time about 1500. 00 americans more than usual lost their lifes on the roads in the attempt to avoid the risk of flying but this is a case illustrates that only reaction to a danger can create new dangers or be at the fear flights arguably mean less Climate Change for future generations do you think that that dollar trump then was right to compare when these terms what the chinese have done to the world with 911 and pearl harbor when it came to risk im not sure quite in the same way your comparing risk as regards probability of death would think that there is a point of saying that. Was right we might think about would be doing it in order to avoid creating more dangerous. For instance hospitals all over the world report including in the u. K. That in number of patients who come into the hospital sort of Emergency Departments with see dear heart problems has decreased and the interpretation is that many people who should go to the hospital dont go anymore because they fear getting infected by the virus. So and that may cause another death toll similar to it in the 911 event here but in a different way in the uk so it eases the urge to kind of. Be aware. Of behavior were not creating more problems than be already. You see some people might think that on a daily basis even that statement common sense of a kind is what where are you using in fact a lot of people say what politicians seem to be advising our top scientific adviser is everything they say seems a bit like common sense albeit that some of our politicians may not have ordered or prepared for the pandemic properly can you just take me back to the h one n one model that you did which seem too far be far more accurate than the google flu model and that one was using 550000000. 00 search terms how is it that something you can come up in on the back of an envelope presumably can be so much better than a probabilistic determination based on so much data by one of the Biggest Companies on earth google flu trends trying to predict the spread of through exactly the flu related doctor visits. Her good idea to people might in the search terms if they have symptoms of it in it work and the most shameful reason is this is deep uncertainty so this flu. The swine flu was not in the winter but in this summer. Prints how being calibrated on the pastor couldnt know that so what im working with is the musing the intelligence of the human prey in which has evolved for many many years to derive other assumes that actually in this case up of trends we tested a very simple. Predictive fluke related doctor visits which just looked at the most recent data point and that proved to be better than big data whats to listen to listen is the. Chu know we shouldnt be impressed by very complex algorithms they work if the route is stable the flip side of a complicated the modeling by multibillion dollar Multinational Companies is the simplistic statements we get at press conferences when Boris Johnson here in britain says hes following the science how should we interpret that and is that an example of harris fix im not sure. But it is always for science its often just an excuse for following a certain direction with a certain vote for instance. Currently we are the face numbers numbers of boat new infections about death rates whats needed is an understanding where do these numbers come from most of the time the numbers of people would need a and a positive coronavirus test that means they die from the bones or with the virus or some kind of mixture and this type of understanding is important then to understandability case fatality rates are but then does that mean that our scientists our top model has. Infected by something i think youve said before that the human brain itself finds it more difficult to understand deaths over a longer time period than a shorter time period maybe a genetic predisposition been enhanced perhaps by social and economic priorities in a new your liberal europe suddenly its in britain in the United States where the death toll appears we have to separate dislike a lot of the principles that make us feel. From the risk literacy a good understanding of numbers and also. From the. Conflict of interest that ended the behavior of politicians so the principle that make us fear they include the anxiety that is caused by dread risks at the same time it is not easy to elicit our fear from situations where as many and more people die distributed over the year for instance in germany we had 2 years ago an estimated 20000 deaths to the regular through 20000 that didnt cause any big fuss or we havent rolled part millions of people who die on too close or a 1000000000 of people who are on the. Basically under under the brink of dying from poverty that doesnt drop much attention so its certain things it is like the difference between. A plane crash which makes the media and cause it exciting and the steady toll of people dying on the roads which couldnt bother us where much so thats a kind of the psyche politicians when they were on the other hand. Are in a difficult situation today and maybe if you look back today swine flu we can see a politician keen. For instance confronted with a disturbance flying through there was tamiflu which was supposed to help against the severe consequences of the swine flu but there was no evidence and has stood no evidence for that but the British Government bought tamiflu and you can understand a politician can make 2 errors when he has to not to buy it and him something happens and then its your fault or to spend too taxpayers money in that it doesnt harm whats coming as it did it was swine flu and thats more or less fired so this cook defensive Decision Making and in the end in the u. P. A. Heard there was an estimated 65000. 00 people who died from swine flu and it was it in less than 500. 00 and the government. Burned pritish pounds on medication were we had never proof that it actually helps i understand it was the same model thats being used there again in britain for corona virus just finally then do you think theres a class bias in risk analysis obviously over there in germany a much more equal country in terms of gini coefficient. No doctors no frontline medical personnel have died from corona virus here in britain apparently nearly 200 have vain and of course disproportionately its been the poor and not the rich and then we have by that what we have learned is certainly true of me and compared to the u. K. Is that think of a model as that the idea here that a Health System should be optimized is a fatal idea. Sure many has been criticised over the years for having too many intensive care beds that were used all the time no we are glad that we are them so one chamber lesson is if youre dealing with a situation of uncertainty dont try to optimize or get past optimization is always on the past and if the future is difference you bust through the same listen hard being drawn from the financial crisis were being so optimized for capital by value at risk of a collations and in some missing unexpected happened then they go bust. So we need to lure this uncertainty and its. Risk as a good grounds i thank you it was a pleasure. After the break as communist china continues to report 0 daily death stooges coronavirus we ask the lord willing sociologist Brigitte Blackman if showing his experience of western imperialism has shaped its approach to crisis all the more coming up in part 2 of going underground. During the vietnam war u. S. Forces. There was a secret war. And for years the American People did not know. How much it is the. Country per capita. Millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this Small Agricultural country. Even today kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago because the u. S. Making amends for the tragedy in laos wont help to the people need in that little land of mine. Welcome back well in the 1st half we tried to help you understand risk based on official information given to you what if you dont trust what your government tells you today about saving your life from coronavirus here in britain it often falls to Boris Johnsons Health Secretary matt hangup to tell you how to live your life but he arguably has 4 more not being trusted here he is a story culture secretary accused at an official committee of misrepresenting the u. K. s far reaching inquiry into ethics in journalism the socalled never seen report that was sparked by u. K. Media hacking of the phone of a murdered teenager youre in you say state. And you stood up in the house of commons and you represent its a Brian Leveson this position and i think you misrepresented his position well so and ive told you why because supply leveson fundamentally disagreed with the governments conclusion and those are my words that theres a surprise in leveson as words so why should i believe you today because everything i said then was accurate and i. And i represented. The position of his letter as a whole that he believed that the inquiry should continue and i was standing up to explain the dying thought that taking everything into account all the changes since since the leveson inquiry all the changes in law all the changes the fact that it so now exists i take them all turned into account i decided that the best thing is not to have a i know your position is all working quite well what im saying you know is that is that you miss misrepresent it surprised levasseur this position to the commons on the well thats your view were not going to come to agreement on it i think i faithfully represents it as set out as as you read out and but i i understand i can see that you would rather avoid done it differently know what i would wrong that would would be that you were straightforward its up to the British Public to decide whether hancock is being straightforward about coronavirus today but his performance at the Bryan Leveson inquiry was widely seen as protecting the interests of britains media all agog like Rupert Murdoch and the barclay brothers and today amidst a Global Pandemic britains newspapers continue to be the least trusted across a European Survey of 33. 00 countries the United Kingdom is below malta and north of macedonia according to your a barometer in the past few days posing questions about what role unarguably captured media plays. When tens of thousands of killed by disease britain of course is also one of the most an equal countries on that list and some media are all agog to maybe feeling today theyre like 1st class passengers on a sinking ship thats the title of a new book by new york sociologist professor Richard Lachman and i caught up with him to ask him about his book some titled elite politics and the decline of great power as richard welcome to going underground to tell me about the 1st class passengers in the sinking ship ok well this is a book that tries to explain why it is that the United States is in decline and i do it with historical comparisons to the 2 previous dominant powers britain and the netherlands and in essence what i find is that elites are able to grab control of not just Government Resources but government powers and in that way it becomes more and more difficult for governments to make Strategic Decisions and allocate resources in ways that are needed to maintain global dominance i should say that in range there are whole numbers of empires that get discussed in the book but for you national decline cannot be stopped by just mass organizing no i think where mass organizing matters is what conditions of life will be like after the clyde will elites be able to become wealthier and wealthier and make more and more decisions or will the mass of people be able through electoral means or strikes or other sorts of Mass Mobilization to be able to demand improved social programs a more Egalitarian Society and with the debates between narrow elites controlling all policy within say the United States or or britain is it a race then between Climate Change and the empire collapsing well i think the empire. Ayers is collapsing regardless of Climate Change but the effects of Climate Change are certainly going to overwhelm many governments around the world and the question is whether in coming decades the u. S. Government will have the so its of resources and flexibility to be able to respond in ways that prevent mass suffering and so just to be clear were talking about hedge was having sort of suicidal imperial. Imperial instincts and theres no real rule for trade unions one little ponies while thats going on you know there there is a role for that there their role isnt to try to maintain their countrys global dominance their role is to be sure that ordinary people are able to lead decent lives and have a larger share of what working people actually are producing but in the context of this book if you want to say the democrat primary campaign a candidate perhaps like son does is is not going to be fit enough to be able to conquer the elite powers there will be trying to constrain even a slightly social democratic model i dont know health care for instance let alone these wider ideas about and the imperialism really the only good news is that sociologists are very bad at being able to predict mass movements they rub it in ways that we really cant predict so you know that certainly is a possibility and there is levels of despair and anger in this country that should provoke widespread social movements whether those will happen in the next few years im not sure but thats really the one way in which the shape of decline can be shifted the way. Most people just being more and more miserable and elites getting richer and richer toward one where the decline continues the u. S. Is no longer a dominant global power but ordinary americans lead much happier and more decent lives ok so we shouldnt be really reading the book as a as a manual then but you do appear to be saying that whereas big movements of the working class in the United States have been left to the wayside have declined china and india have learnt from the imperial power over those countries by britain by the United States and that in a way is is one of the reasons the ascending during this decline in. Yeah i mean certainly the historical pattern is the countries that are rising learning how to produce things how to order their economies how to build their governments by looking at the ones that were previously most successful but i think were at a real turning point in global history that over the past 500 years of capitalism when one dominant power lost control there was that a struggle among a couple of rising ones and then one won out and became the new dominant power i think now were going to be entering an era where there wont be at jamaat anymore that you know it doesnt seem that china or india will achieve that at least in the next decades and were going to have a world that where theres much more flux you know little about presumably the decline in funding for amtrak your National Railway system moving here theyre talking about a high speed rail way system that china has already offered to build in 5 years much less than britain is focusing on for less money what kind of pressure can donald trump. Put on powers that seek their infrastructure being built by china say which it is actually with 5 g. In this country huawei. Threw the phone down on Boris Johnson here can can the United States try and prevent Infrastructure Projects being built by the perhaps future hedge ammans like china i think the u. S. Will try but its going to fail and if trump gets reelected i think countries around the world at that point are going to decide that they have to move very decisively to try the order of their economic and geo Political Affairs so that they have much less to do with the United States you know when bush was 1st elected in invaded iraq i think many people around the world for this was just a fluke and that obama came in and there is the view well the United States is back to normal from 1st election was seen as another fluke but if he gets reelected i think the reality will sink in that president s like bush and trump are the norm for the United States and obama is the brief exception and so theyre going to have to figure out how they can organize themselves so that when their future trumps it doesnt affect them as much as it does now and one of the ways to do that is to exclude the United States as much as possible. Of course obama was and was a wartime president to seem but certainly was to the global south how does the media play into your thesis about elite power the well in 2 ways i mean one the the media very narrowly 0 and in the United States and with the end of the new deal regulatory system where you have the fairness doctrine add limits and how many stations can be owned by any one company that you have a move away from media that are locally based and have to give air to a variety of views to these sorts of ideological Networks Like fox that could have stations covering the entire United States and just present the single party line without having to offer alternative viewpoints and so between that and a couple of Companies Dominating the internet people are. In the day to day basis exposed to much narrower points of view that are much more open to manipulation and so it makes it harder to have. Real debates. You know what alternative points of view there are for the most part confined to sort of their alternative media the unfortunately dont get very much of an audience and then while working class organizations organizers try and retain what little they have left after that with grace is what rule do you think sabotage amidst elites can play in trying to create a better world within the elites as it were but i mean certainly historically conflict among the leads provides an opening for the mass of people to achieve political victories i think what were seeing now is not really conflicts among the lead. In the us but rather various the leads gaining total control over narrow sectors of the economy and being able to block government from interfering with it so that sort of structure doesnt really provide much of an opening for non elites to play of significant political role and fortunately so would the idea be to smuggle oneself into the lead to i dont know huge Political Violence rather than peaceful political organization. I mean i dont think thats going to help very much and historically in the us when theres been violence from below after kids to violence antiwar violence in the 1960 s. Thats backfired and its led to a turn to the right so that has never been a successful strategy i think you know the only thing that can be done is to make the effort to try to organize however hard it is and probably the best place to put that in is through in trying to rebuild unions that would be the probably most effective strategy in the United States that. Reza Richard Lachman thank you its a pleasure to talk with you. Professor Richard Lachman speaking to me there and his book 1st class passengers on the sinking ship and the politics of the decline of great powers is out now thats over the show will be back on wednesday with meeting human rights lawyer Geoffrey Robertson q. C. To discuss the legal ramifications of the road a virus when it comes to Civil Liberties i think tried the worlds most famous publisher Julian Assange gentil then wash your hands and join me on the ground by following up on you tube Twitter Facebook fans at instagram. Divided the in 18 will be. Pleased. Or operation dying while some of the wealthier neighborhoods its been far more contained in the numbers are much lower than some of the more a neighborhood star city is because we think were working with can source outside of the state is there just so its here so i think that it was. Welcoming our viewers from around the world live from Central London this is our 2 u. K. The british Prime Minister is not down exit strategy continues to unravel ahead of a showdown in the house of commons as westminster finally advice is Face Covering on public transport but scotland says its too risky to start easing measures discussing the plans with an intensive care consultant a little later. The russian president announces that the working period will end tomorrow but the ban on Mass Gatherings will remain in place we get live reaction from moscow. British Police Called for more clarity on the revised lockdown measures saying many people are acting as if the restrictions of being scrapped we hear from a former officer. Also this hour the government considers changes to its context tracing out of the concerns about privacy and security. The British Government has attempted to clarify its coronavirus lock down exit strategy with a 51 page blueprint ahead of the Prime Ministers appearance before m. P. s later this hour now those who call work from home to go back though not by public transport while Face Coverings are recommended when social distancing is impossible but thats as the scottish 1st minister says its too risky to start easing restrictions in the country already cage shut it was dusty joins me in the studio with all the latest so shut it what is the exit strategy looking like but of course the United Kingdom has now been locked down for 7 weeks exactly and on the eve of that Boris Johnson address the nation he decided to change the governments official line and message from stay at home to stay alert so that was quite a lack of clarity rhetoric coming from that message yesterday according to his critics but its. The main principles of lockdown remain in place now Boris Johnson is about to address the commons to give them slightly more clarity but just over an hour ago the government released a 50 page blueprint to try and set out exactly what the government is doing so its actively encouraging people to go back to work if its not possible to work from home so thats jobs in industries such as manufacturing there is confusion as to when in the Prime Ministers address last night it sounded much like today but now it seems like thats from wednesday theres also confusion over how to get to work as the advice as to avoid public transport but encourage people to walk or cycle and wear a mask now depending on how the next few weeks go the government may allow children in Primary School to return at the beginning of june that would include reception year one and year 6 but in terms of secondary schools its unlikely to be allowed back before september now as for the Hospitality Services restaurants and cafes could open in early july but there was no mention of pubs but nonessential retail could also open as early as june from wednesday the public will be allowed more Time Outdoors and thats not just for exercise so in fact that it means unlimited outdoor exercise and you will be allowed to sit with one individual even from someone from outside your household also seen travel restrictions then not being lifted but those returning from abroad will have to quarantine for 14 days now with all of these measures that seem to be somewhat relaxed Boris Johnson did stress at any point in time the government would put the brakes on if indeed it was necessary to do so now during his speech just yesterday the Prime Minister also talked through a 5 to corona virus alert system so lets take a closer look at what that really looks like so level 5 thats the most dangerous terror in this scenario that would be an overwhelming risk to the n. H. S. They would not be able to cope with the virus in that setting there are a number of the reproductive rate of the virus would be a. One in that case the next is level 4 where the situation is still severe this is where the country is at at the moment with a partial lockdown there are numbers above one in some parts of the country right now now level 3 would mean there is still a substantial threat to the public the virus is still circulating among the population but the n. H. S. Are able to cope with the number of cases and that our number would be below 01 at level 2 then the country would be experiencing a low transmission rate meaning the n. H. S. Are able to work at a normal level but socially level one is where everybody would love to get to thats when the threat level is low the virus is no not present in the country which means people can by and large return to normality and show to not everyone though agrees with the governments message no not everyone does agree with the lifting or even easing of these measures and still the numbers of cases remain very high indeed the death number has leapt by 210 deaths in the last 24 hour period yes thats much lower than when the u. K. Was at the peak but still some argue its not low enough to justify the easing of the measures and that also brings the total number of deaths 232065 deaths since the coronavirus pandemic broke out across United Kingdom now all leaders across the devolved nation say the message of stay at home should remain the key and crucial one from the government and the 1st minister of scotland nicholas sturgeon has decided to keep much stricter rules in place saying any relaxation would be far too risky. I want to reiterate that those announcements do not apply yet here in scotland at that is not at let me stress for any political reason is because the Scottish Government is not yet confident that these changes can be made safely in scotland yet without running the risk of the virus potentially running out of control again so scotlands dont restrictions remain in place for no pay and their key message remains the same we need to stay at home meanwhile dominic rob the foreign secretary also added to confusion over these relaxation of the lockdown measures specifically about how many people you can meet up with outdoors as from wednesday is that people can go outside for example to parks or certain sports where you can keep social distancing at 2 metres you cannot meet 2 parents at the same time where you could have 50 metres apart now we will have from the Prime Minister Forrest Johnson very shortly indeed but heres what he had to say yesterday this is not the time simply to in the lock down this week instead were taking the 1st cafu steps to modify our measures and the 1st step is a change of emphasis that we hope that people will act on this week we said that you should work from home if you can only go to work if you must. We now need to stress that anyone who cant work from home fruits and those in construction or manufacturing should be actively encouraged to go to work and we want it to be safe for you to get to work so you should avoid public transport if were to possible because we must and will maintain social distancing and capacity will therefore be limited from this wednesday we want to encourage people to take more and even unlimited amounts of our director sites you can sit in the sun in your local park you can drive to other destinations you can even play sports only with members of your own house so that was Boris Johnson just yesterday today it will be apparent he will be under a lot of pressure from the opposition here reading it up more clarity shadow thank you very much indeed for all of that while discuss this further im now joined by intensive care consultant Dr Ron Daniels wrong very good of you to join us today what do you make of this exit strategy well i think your call for more clarity really is what everybodys calling for we have members of the public who are frustrated they want to see their family there might want to see their friends we have businesses who want to start up again and what we dont have is clear and specific guidance on what that means right now i agree with the Prime Minister we cannot end lockdown now we need a graded reduction of lockdown but what we cant have is government guidance thats open to interpretation and what we hope is well start to see a lot greater clarity in need more lengthy messages from the government over the coming days graded lock down you say is it though actually the right time to ease any measures at all what will that mean for infection rates. Well look we get we help professionals we get that theres a balance between the harm to the economy and the harm to lives lost we understand that if it were down totally to as if there were no impact on the economy we would say absolutely not we should not relax look down at all right now what anyone would hope if a loved one became extremely unwell is that they could be admitted to intensive care without delay and be treated in a hospital near them right now intensive care units are still operating at above their normal capacity yes we freed up some beds over the last several weeks of people of either survived or some have sadly died but theres still more patients than we normally have and that capacity needs to be greater in order for there to be the beginning of a 2nd wave the confusion over face masks now so coverings are recommended when social distancing isnt possible whats your view on wearing face masks. Well if we wear face masks correctly so thats firstly is it the right face mask secondly are we behaving responsibly with it so are we wearing it for an episode out and about and then washing it before a next use or using what have gone before a next use are we using it to cover our mouth and nose rather than we see many people just using them to cover the mounds and thats simply not good enough do we ensure that we apply social distancing as well rather than using the mask as a safety blanket and i suppose treating it as though we dont have impunity where we can do whatever we want so if it is about mass they will help to reduce spread but its also around the way the public behave with masks now what about Different Countries here in the devolved nations of course theyre reacting differently the devolved government on easing restrictions surely that adds complications across the borders of the home nations and of course it again add some more confusion over the issue doesnt it whether the country should be operating or reacting as a whole. What well of course it does and of course we enjoy virtual borders and of course many people live close to those borders and have many years of learning memory of crossing it well both for work and for pleasure so this isnt a straightforward as it might seem it would have been helpful i think and i think most reasonable people might agree it would have been helpful if the leaders of the devolved countries and the leader of england had got together and said ok how we going to approach this collectively now each country will have slightly different our statistics and its right and proper the each country responds appropriate late but perhaps it might have made more sense if each country had an agreed staged response and they might have been to different phases at slightly different times covered by that given by their own of value what are you and your colleagues seeing at the moment can we be confident that lower death figures mean the end is in sight all or do we risk a 2nd wave of the virus. While we look we are seeing fewer patients arriving in hospital with cope at 19 we still havent seen the normal caseload the heart attack the stroke the patients with sepsis arriving in their normal numbers but the numbers of coded 19 are reducing now that does mean that some people visiting wards might see some empty beds and i have sympathy with people who are saying well the n. H. S. Is empty surely were ready to end lockdown but the reality is the intensive care beds where the most sick patients need to go to be looked after patients often occupy those beds for 2 sri 4 weeks and so does a lag between reducing numbers coming in and intensive care beds being available is there a chance as funny of us as a 2nd wave because we often hear about this now. Well we do and i think most of my colleagues who i speak to and are mildly fearful of stuff what we dont know is how many of our public have been exposed without knowing it so we dont know whether we have a degree of herd immunity if 80 percent of us have been exposed to me ive tested positive and have mild symptoms if many people have been exposed without knowing it or shrugged it off as a cold then we might be ok but if its down in the 10 percent or even fewer than us then its highly likely we will see a 2nd wave really good to talk to today. Great that youre fit and healthy to do so thank you very much for joining us here live an antique a doctor on daniels. Researches at the British University of claimed the governments measures have done little to stop the spread of the virus academics at the university of east anglia analyzed the sector by sector effectiveness of the lock down if im closing all nonessential businesses had little impact on the spread of the virus across the country the stay at home gardens was also found to have had little effect however some measures were deemed to be effective closing schools did help in reducing the incidence of coronavirus after a certain time lag period and the ban on Mass Gatherings also had a positive effect when it comes as figures from the office for National Statistics look at patterns between jobs and virus related deaths a show that the death rate varies heavily depending on the sector a person works and the fatality rate among men is also higher than amongst women. Security guards are significantly more likely to die of covert 19 with a death rate of over 45100000 taxi drivers and chauffeurs are also more than twice as likely to suffer a coronavirus related death and care home workers are also more risk of death rate of over 23. 00 per 100000 or whatever the rate of death among n. H. S. Workers was found to be in line with National Averages well do work state were there some day ill be discussing these findings in more detail with policy Research Expert dr josh were moon up will be coming your way in just over an hour from now. When they have a look at how the virus is affecting the home nations over 2 123000 have now tested positive more than 32000 have lost their lives thats an increase of 200 m. Since yesterday and h. S. England has reported 209. 00 deaths since yesterday was scotland and wales have individually reported 5 well therefore a global picture of the virus now according to Johns Hopkins university which collects global data over 4100000 and now infected more than 283000 have died and as you can see there over 1400000 have now recovered. Well france begins is easing its lockdown with nurseries Primary Schools and most businesses reopening but many fear this could backfire causing a 2nd wave of infections belgium is taking its foot off the mark down slightly with core sectors such as retail opening but im great hospital hospitality workers i should say there lay down hundreds of chefs jackets last week to protest against the governments decision not to reopen bars and restaurants until at least june and has 33000000 americans are left jobless the mayor of new york has called on billionaires to help reimagine pushed virus america. Still to come the sound. To be uprooted announces that the normal working period for russia will end tomorrow put the ban on Mass Gatherings will remain in place probably getting a lot of reaction from moscow and. British police call for more clarity on how the government to lift the lockdown amid fears that mixed messages have left many ignoring all the restrictions we have from the policing expert and a former officer. Of the Parliamentary Committee calls for pools to be u. K. Rolled out of the n. H. S. Is caltex tracing out. Concerns. Join me every thursday on the alex simon show and ill be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business im showbusiness ill see you then. The world is driven by dream shaped by our own personal. Dares thinks. We dare to ask. 75 years ago there was a Global Solidarity to annihilate the scourge of fascism from the air the soviet union and its western allies prevailed against nazi germany today such Global Solidarity is sadly missing in the days of the current. In one plunks this very necessary solidarity. The russian president has announced that the nonworking period will end tomorrow but the battle Mass Gatherings will remain in place down hawkins reports live from moscow now so don what is the latest then coming from russian. Well posing in a Video Conference with the Regional Governors and masses out that out of to morrow the whole country nonworking week the nonworking time period because from one week its the been extended obviously to 6 weeks now as of tomorrow that will all come to an end now what does that mean what doesnt that mean but it certainly doesnt mean that things are back to normal that people will be able to go about their daily business go to the shops had dresses restaurants and have Mass Gatherings football matches or concerts for example what does mean is that Regional Governors mags that has the regions will be able to have more discretion and more power over how those lockdown measures are eased here in moscow for example of course where those measures are likely to stay in place moscows had one of the highest infection and death rates in the country in regions where code has less of a hold that means destructions could be lifted perhaps sooner and perhaps more widespread he put in a big emphasis on testing stating that the thought of monster was about 2 and a half 1000 tests but they and that number is now up 2170000 deaths per day and thats going to double by the end of may to 300000. 00 so mr putin said that that is a key element medics the been working with those with coded needle help and support they can get and they will continue to receive increased payments for taking the risks that they do. Like we said they support as well for businesses individual selfemployed people as well because although the bar is set be very warry for a lot of people its the economic side its the unemployment the jobs that people are most concerned about is and hes put in a whole raft of measures to support families with children to support small and medium sized businesses and to ensure they can get access to credit subsidized rate from the russian banks as well thats going to happen by the end of june. Really a step in the right direction much as weve seen in a lot of European Countries as well as potential easing restrictions but like we said it will be up the street discretion of governors of mayors governed by medics and scientific advice this is very much not a return to normal to day to day life but it is a step in easing these lockdown restrictions which of course been in place now for so many weeks thank you very much indeed for that live update from moscow the n. H. S. Is looking into the feasibility of switching its coronavirus Contact Tracing app to the decentralized model supported by tech giant such as apple and google it comes as the governments trial of its own app began on the isle of wight last week amid concerns a new technology could put peoples data at risk in h. S. That works by detecting nearby phones via bluetooth with phones making a record of its contacts unlike other contact apps which will car users to have a positive test the n. H. S. One allows users to self report of they have symptoms for the virus but at least half of the population need to download the app for it to be successful and the n. H. S. Apple stores phone information on a centralized system while the decentralized method sends a notification independently from the users phone what is this key difference in the unprecedented scale of the data being collected that has concerned privacy experts for weeks who said the up could allow for a back door to greater state surveillance at harman who chairs the joint committee on human rights said the government needs to ensure the protections are in place the Contact Tracing app involves im president a data gathering there must be robust Legal Protection for individuals about what that data will be useful who will have access to it and how it will be safeguarded from hacking parliament was able quickly to agree to give the governments sweeping powers it is perfectly possible for parliament to do the same for legislation to protect privacy. Report by the Committee Recommended the government introduced legislation to make sure peoples data and human rights were not violated and also call for an independent body to oversee its use on a digital Contact Tracing Human Rights Commission would handle public complaints and report to parliament the app would also be subject to regular reviews by the Health Hancock downing street says that maintaining security and privacy have been at the heart of the Apps Development we prioritized security in previous see through the Ups Development with expert advice from the National Cybersecurity center users can delete and its data will ever they want and will always comply with relevant laws including the Data Protection act we have also published the security and privacy designs so experts can ensure security remains as high as possible critics have also warned the private sector contracts granted june the crisis is giving big tech an unfair foothold in the n. H. S. They say the days are access granted to these firms will give them an unfair commercial advantage post pandemic n. H. S. X. The Health Services innovation arm says all access is time limited and subject to data privacy rules on tuesday with knotty k. Well ill be discussing the concerns surrounding this n. H. S. App with a previously expert thatll be a little later. British police of one of the lack of clarity in the governments announcements and corona virus have resulted in more people in parks and on the streets as will continue to do their best but their work must be based on Crystal Clear guidance not solutions rules that are left to interpretation because got to be grossly offices whose job is already challenge. Officers across the country reported breaches of the lockdown rules over the weekend with people travelling to beauty destinations having birthday in the day parties and some pubs even reopening secretly Senior Officers also called for clarification of Police Responsibilities on a body representing officers in the capital said the governments Pandemic Response was wishy washy of a moral nyssa not joined by a former Police Officer and policing expert Peter Williams peter very good to see you today now most people clearly are trying to follow the rules arent they yes certainly. The stories that were clearly in the minority. Bills no 2 ways about but of course the police to enforce these rules if actively do need the cooperation of the public and the vast majority of that little doing us as we know the recall youll just referred to. Is only highlighting the minority of breaches of the socalled social just see im really whats the problem for the Police Officers because obviously theres this view particularly capital that the regulations are wishy washy but of course the government has clarified whats acceptable some bathing meeting one other person with a 2 metre distance and i mean if thats all common sense in it that makes things easier or harder for the police. Well its all about applying common sense if you look on the colors of police in sites in reference to. Anything to do with these regulations it does say that the cuffs the shield employ the judgments and the Police Service a unique from any other organization and so much that those the bottom of it have far more discretion that those up sop for things to unseat questioning concept will probably need to wind this back this place counts in full distance and thats a decision full individuals what they can in full is legislation that is pertaining to things like that and that is what theyve been asked to do now when this legislation was passed as im sure our viewers know it was passed through parliament in a massive about 4 days including going through the 2nd Committee Stage the normal standing Committee Stage where the what ifs all looked at that never happened now with major major legislation any major legislation that has an impact on life as this has searches and the introduction of the Police Incredible evidence act there is a sedition a a long lead in period jordan that lead in period that is the period where the police themselves the Police Services the individual forces train their offices on what the new legislation would beit giora not stage the what ifs discussed but of course also with saw going here and the examples im given this is before there is any case law case lonely consist when they go through the criminal Justice System that has not happened yes that counts so what youve got now is rush legislation which is being introduced within. No such training whatsoever some guidance from the college of police and so i personally am not surprised that we seemed these. Differences of opinion on him separate sation of the sokol rules between not only individual offices between original full individual forces almost a perfect still but is that vagueness have interpretation when we really have conveyed it so they call him blatantly breaking the rules and the police do need to have a pass to deal with these people dynamic we are knowing or caring about increased fines but what will that help well. People can draw their own conclusions and make their own judgments on any form of the terrorists our criminal Justice System is builds on the principle of to terence thats why it was written. So its the same situation its the same exactly the same situation here but yes youre absolutely right where are same these examples where people are blatantly and shoot at leat. Not observing the right in the regulations i what we also need to remember in relation to the Police Responding to these instances they are responding with out p. P. Now which puts them in a very very difficult very difficult situation but your previous speaker made an excellent point in relation to how the public respond to what were expected to do we were encouraged to some extent by the governments to what to mark the date by hopefully by having holding in some places did street parties what message does that send to the public who are retold fleet listening to the advised do we follow it dont we so are we really surprised what was seen in these breaches of the so ok were just saying that its really good to talk to thank you so much for your time Perfect Timing because now were going to have the british Prime Minister hes going to be questioned on his plan to lift the lockdown and we can now open eco life to the house of commons last witness did the leader of the house argue the degree of latitude is a lot of depart however the secretary of state himself referred repeatedly to the value of parliamentary scrutiny and written questions and letters to ministers are intending to search through to high