A true story i mean what in the world is going on here the black and white version seems to be acceptable the color when not are there different meanings or is this a revisionist cell and why in the world would anyone want to deny that iconic photographs its like the sailor kissing the young lady on times square in victory over japan i mean what is going on here go ahead well i dont know which exactly of which were acting exactly. We mean here more likely its that i want to image or west soviet soldier which are not their advantage or rights which was basically the central issue of Central Power you know nazi germany so for gates there was no problem with a slat you know it. Emits its like that you might or american soldiers would you not a flag. In the pacific during the war with japan you would seem. Were going to cause a scandal here well basically a lot of russians are now thinking what plane or on why that discrepancy and your theory i mean general Geoffrey Robertson had just show everybody you know this is exactly the photograph or top. Of my goodness in here he has the props even for the program he had no idea it was going to pass theres going to be thats exactly yesterday my office at the university. I mean thats a matter. Yeah so are we russians who are thinking why this happened in russia now is certainly. Bad the country or the west then the soviet union i will war well of course style we have a pluralistic educated history you know right now in russia you can hear and you can read any kind of stuff about their war what you from and apple do you know what stalinist revision or you can get everything at and that makes us different from the west now where just my own narrative seems to be remade in the last year and my explanation is that the problem is with the new west and i go with you because its impossible that the same sad story would suddenly in separate independent qantas that you would count their statue or for Marshall Warner removed from prop and the check say it was just the local authority who decided to do it you know then you have. You know facebook removed the sport on the car right version of the sport facebook is based in the United States that its not only against russia the name of Franklin Delano roosevelt was removed from everywhere in port unless people cared about. And there are every year rules about is still a National Hero in the night you know and thats the medicine just you know did the thing is he right it seems to me and i think tim is on to something it is an ideological approach to all this but we cant deny its simply ludicrous to didnt 9 the existence of historical figures now the difference is that glorify them ok i get that all right but you know its almost like the the iconic picture of yalta where you have you know Stalin Churchill and roosevelt and you know in our early in the in this post cold war environment you know somehow that is sacrilegious because youre putting stalin on stage here and on here do let me go to jeff i want you to can only get going on the point is here is that history is something we should learn from it i mean its just not a moral play in the president s go ahead joe you know what 1st i dont like this not being this historical revisionism because a long way back i mean almost as soon as the war has ended its history has been revised its going to launch you look to reason so its not a new person knows it the present time its were in the face period of historic revisionism as you call it and thats all i see connected with the current or russias relations with the west and will develop that kind of. Group one point that david might well which im very much greater than russia these days you can say anything you like who will pull any kind of extreme revisionist views anything its all shes actually much more serious he bites the wool in russia than death there at the recent west but having said that you know it does more than one narrative in the west not treat we shouldnt exaggerate. The county influence of the western liberal me here and western liberal or at least we shouldnt underestimate the extent to which among popular conscious is quite reasonable secret witness of the true facts of the will or wont watch in particular was. To throw somebody play going to read homey. Ok well but we didnt hear that jeff and then why are these it seems to me that there are heat for the for the the majority of people the majority of media there is a new revisionist a narrative being pushed here but at the same time youre saying that among the population theres a level of awareness i think thats true but i think its getting smaller and smaller i used to teach at the university of california and you know young theyre supposed to be the cream of the crop in their knowledge was very scant and i have to worry that its even worse now because we have saving private ryan and you know we had i think yesterday the white house really giving credit to the United States you came for victory over the nazis not obviously not mentioning a soviet union in one has to question is that intentional or is it just lack of knowledge finish up on that point jeff. If there are some countries country nothing United States its probably a state bad case of. Expected oh no not only history will be starker or vicious narrative narrows originally to discredit connell is just such a congressman naziism totalitarians the lowest common kind of state nowadays across its political function is to discredit russia that is good just ready to see an end to create a contrast between the west need marks in russian authoritarianism through a so that you know guilt by association of russia with the soviet union would be a turn to totalitarian pasta so thats whats going on kind of question is. How to this continent fish but its any right use in poland says. Lets actually be part of the contest yes about the slums and well i mean i mean youve known me for a very very long time and thats always been my gripe is that its very difficult to talk about anything related to russia because its always about context and if you dont have basic facts then you dont have any context ok and thats the. Difficulty in discussing all this i mean you know there are different narratives about the war ended 3 as a result of that war i mean ive always taken the position is that most of the soldiers that died didnt die for communism they died for mother russia they died to protect their families their tradition their language their civilization the eye of the ideological sun you can put it its been there if you can put it there but i dont think thats the majority of the pitch opinion of the people that are there my opinion go ahead well i think there are people tonight for who write your reasons you know defend them russia and defend in the soviet union not only russians. But i think the main reason was so why well you know the people realize that if hitler wins but im not going to survive and. What happened later was that. Well who jockeying to power hugh ford style in years and by stalinist means i mean the problem of the character of star is the fall in basically are crucial to remove stalin from all their narrative about the war in the same way as star in removing current or trotsky from the narrative about the 1970 revolution so what happened on the wooden was now freedom team now you can be astonished you can say that you think stalin you know was very important that he won that war you can be and i study and the majority or if you want russian better and theres a lot of movies about the war you may know and each of their mansions repression so well in the west they say or start in has been. When israel started back that is such a big lie you think because you know their way through shopfront bradner forts that it is worse than it is you know i was born in 1970 i remember that i forst saw study and teacher when i was 13 in 1903 on the windshield of a car you know that was wrong you know whatever we think about stalin as a figure it was wrong to remove his image to remove all memory about him and now the west wants us to wreak heat the same thing you know to demonize the earth and there i am returning to this i get what you call the nyquil that the more that i your job the west i point out to liberals i wouldnt even call it our western i your what you why because its not in the western tradition its very if you want and they should experience you know shakespeare has dimensional characters and the problem with the more than western narrative is that it does not allow them mention of characters and there its. Never not in the same time if data thats true. And theyre weak to in this war it was he has nerve it was he has the will power it was he hasnt made it to well its the year we go down there there is the debate there i would say they deserve a union on the war in spite of stalin ok but if he were just demonstrating to our viewers that there is a debate here i see jeff flock being in the in his Little Corner their heads every very good im wary of everything youre saying id look at it equal that i think i just went wrong she was trying to change Michael Stipe last year which ah yes sally was a brutal dictator but it was also good to see you must equal posted something. Like well if you use some insight or well the west the west western democracy well hitler that suburban hug is the statement right there that youre not a productive statements in that book ok well i mean in the good will keep were just printed on it is a human brain point but the way to contest this historical revisionism is wish not by producing a composer or as political or large school chums its a way to contest it with the start of truth and we get to start a true future by complexity contradiction constant stuff going on we might not might not much so yeah we have to talk to some of the big tree and such but we also have to talk about the nazis pacs and were going to do after the break were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on remembering victory in europe i mean 5 years ago today. Financial survival. Housing bubble. Oh you mean theres a downside to artificially low Mortgage Rates dont get carried away reform. So. World. Dares thinks. We are here to ask. Well across town where all things are considered on Peter Lavelle remind you were talking about victory over passions in europe 75 years ago. Ok lets go back to my here in moscow here right before we went to the break jeffrey brought up the the nazi soviet pact of course this is a hotly debated today and with good reason i would say because it kind of flushes out the historical facts that jeff was getting into that you know you and i have talked about this so many times here and and as you pointed out to me very eloquently yes that pact did exist and there were secret protocols you know that is part of the historical record but the way its being framed right now is that there is something the soviet union is culpable in a unique way because of that agreement but that isnt so most countries in the end europe had some kind of Security Agreement treaty with nazi germany before hostilities broke out in september 1039 you know where im going with this. Go ahead jim well you are absolutely right now and when that actually are well the Russian Orthodox church recently a save said that this war what the punishment for sins and what of people who are angry and he may sad how come you know all or all of these millions of people who are sinful well no but diplomats diplomats representing these countries yes because basically every country in europe with the exception maybe of czechoslovakia in some way not what happened in czechoslovakia yeah ok in some way corporator with. Between 1033 and theyre making 41 so its a huge moral story if you want how you dont create this with evil without huge wants it wants us we. Are a good thing you know this nature like you we dont have it youre off our study and your shape in france you know we cant study in a newman drop and there is reproduced now in billions and billions of corpus but we have this nature or churchill rules about them started you mentioned that well im very concerned about these speeches because the west and i you all idjit well even that resent dont ask graham evidence because you know here is roosevelt and judge you see them next to that mill and you know or they will simply prefer that because that will not suit their narrative you know the problem with regular ideologists in the west now as a regular. Is there they twist the past what the political interest to be they removed i thought they wouldnt i thought it to be experienced i thought so thats what the soviet state with history the future is certain but the past is not exactly a lot of things that were now seeing of thought crimes in the west now there is no sex the other subsonic right now in russia but there are more and more kinds of thought crimes in the west. And the problem is that these new western i go if youre this are to liberalism or no member is what we want with it or parades right images by hollywood year image you know stalin is the will and so that means that he is what the war started and he too are to blame for the war to lead our maniacs i have been reading it in dollars so books now m. P. P. More seem to disregard the war would not have been possible without needy and so people preparing for that wed only so the problem is much bigger than just too many other many acts but this is the way more than westernized ordinary moves its amos they always find leader whom they demonize you know us are or the same you know. They say you dont win road if you base your hate they dont say mother will remove him and then everything will be fine so they may try to apply the same kind to ordinary the world war 2 which was a very complicated story in very complicated. But thats why are you concerned about this picture or study and rules will come true to each show was that basically people very different beliefs would come to an agreement and fight on be evil and one thing that i mentioned thats what i meant and i do production we have a pandemic we have different good leaders and different political systems different worldviews but this pandemic doesnt care what your politics are but we cant have Global Solidarity and im not done and what do you think is quest at work internationalism because globalism is that it doesnt go far i mean you. Have been go ahead yes sir it will actually fucking michael on this on the show. You know my 1st book which is our Society Years ago was called young hungry lion still has its about a nazi now you. I know right he was right when you cite everyone did business with the nazis in the line see it through some very light soul sort it b. C. Such as your. Dismemberment checks never list there is something that discusses unique about the nazi thought that is no equivalents to that fact any secret project did have some rather radical consequences not get any life from it recruiting results you base an opponent. In september 9th not ok you can say that the territories that were taken but are at all meat what really postsurgery as they wish them better Russia Ukraine a united europe to read. This certainly has to be made 0. 80 of the nazis nazis were hacked and its a very complicated set of historical events which unfolds as a result of the leading into the us and jeffrey. Youre not here i dont think you need to defend i say i wouldnt i wouldnt phrase it that way a defense of it when i am i would say is if there is a reasonable explanation to understand why a bad thing happened we had to look at munich you have the western powers basically just drawing the post world war one International System unilaterally destroying a sovereign state which they had implicitly and explicitly said that they would defend and then you go all the way up to august 39th and you get a more under regis form of it but it is precedent is set its the same price that it made even if you just have to agree i mean thats why i really get too sick and tired of people moralizing about an International System that the western powers had corrupted before but to outsiders nazi germany and the soviet union were involved in it ok this isnt the way back you know and then again i want to make sure i think i dont think youd have to defend it you have to understand it go ahead as it does very like get. Thats a very reasonable and actually cause simple explanation for the nazis when he says hes a threat and actually 1st he says he including saudi so to create some kind of you know. Grand alliance against i felt they felt because it was piecemeal and in the space of that so yeah styling turned his very dirty to do with this real politic you know deceit you can describe as me and i. Saw it playing. It was the only fit it was the ideal chance hes not actually did it right there is kind of action which he became pretty the point is you cant the west cant moralize over that when itself was it culpable for the destruction and i would say the precursor to what would then become an inevitable war i mean they were the remarkable thing if you look at the historical record is that if hillary was ill basically shocked that chamberlain well would agree to breaking up over you know breaking up parts of texas a heaviness of these people get there theyre regular going to sell them out i mean and then months later the entire country was about and this is a kind of more i mean if you want to use the moral dimension what this is the moral character that youre dealing on and stuck in style he believes that to try to please the british and french and do the same to our country crock which is like well they really do you think theyre all over yeah yeah ok ok so the nazis are active there. As more people actually and he is circumstance was the grand Alliance Yeah the judas will want to Grant Lawrence you know the big 3 churches done so you know you know the networks and it worked go ahead david look its the most successful minutes actually lots of yesterdays shooting counts its the image and been well for us that since work like in paradoxes here and now jeffrey if i just sat in a ring if he didnt think you are not in sync. Western democracy is in the same way this pact trust without it i dont think that there is no absolute necessary union in 1901 would be possible because because of the pact the soviet union has one wall to states and western ukraine inside itself these very hostile n. G. O. S you know which remain out under who are much more basically in the late eightys as soon as they are trapped and at the unit you can express their themselves the need it it turned against moscow and then you fire the west doesnt like that back so much they should return the onus to point. And and live their lives through reading out how hes doing it with you without you live our let me take a very provocative look at you know you can make parallels with that you know a lot of ways you know you can say that now russia and the United States and the west and you know cannot agree on fighting coronavirus in the same way they couldnt agree in 18391 fighting hitler despite his or your patient or strictures so i think hes or he has sent a semi but why did that happen well because. The United States and the u. K. The view would. Rush out of the soviet union reading that if you would well now the United States and the u. K. Are viewing russia in china very night they dont want aid from china from china makes them angry you know its you know theyre talking about propaganda Olympic Games let it protect themselves keep going to happen to think maybe i could just be happy till i had get here have got sawyer ok look you get from starting to get a move later churches to get together not what contemporary politicians actually confront this request were facing now. If they want this matter of Political Choice you compare a man and see what what you need. Now you get made the difference kevin is the difference between then and now is it then you had people that had courage you had people that had some point and you know it even stalin i would say ok i mean if you look at sort of the soviet ideology dealing with the bush wild west and you know because it the world was absolutely shots when the the announcement of the nazi so be a great that was made public i mean because after decades of demonizing capitalism and all that someone had to flip on a dime and say for our survival were going to have to work with these 2 characters you know roosevelt and result and churchill here i mean the point is is that theres big ship ok theres no beijing today these people are Walking Around like blind cats go ahead the last 20 seconds go to you well i think there really isnt or why we cannot agree now with the west is precisely the same i do what would you let me make up for what your statement in 1919 quote your eye before that it was an invasion of the soviet union what the receiver at the top talk about National Socialism youre going negative sense we didnt talk naziism s. And i deal with you and that made rational was defense. In the same way now we dont want to believe in one un aggressor west and i go with that same yes it would be nice if we present in there but it is there a very good point gentlemen we have run out of time i want to thank my guests most here in moscow and in cork and i think i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r. T. C. A next time remember. Yeah but. If. You knew you could you could only. Do it if you could get. It to call someone that zealots and their business you want. Them to. Just make you. Sit. On this floor. Just for you to. Give. Money and come begging for many miles to the building. During the vietnam war u. S. Forces are also bombed to neighboring laos it was a secret war. And for years the American People did not know. Until our thelma is officially miles heavily bombed country per capita all Human History millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this Small Agricultural country jordyn wieber. Even today kids in laos fall victim to bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for the tragedy in laos what help to the people need in that little land of mines. On tightening the screws france begins easing itself ounce of lockdown with the government convinced that its called the farce on the ground that many fear a lessening of restrictions could backfire. And this is not the time simply to in the lock down this week the british Prime Minister there reveals his plan to help steer the country back to some semblance of normality but the long down stays put for now the new covert alert system launched to monitor progress. On the 33000000 americans have been left jobless by the Health Crisis the bearer of the hardest hit 30 employees 1000000000 reimagined post virus america