Transcripts For RT CrossTalk 20240713

The generation x. We look at the middle millennial as we see the attraction of socialism in the polls so my question is very broad and its a very deep question at the same time as it is capitalism working if it is for whom go ahead. Its a great question. Kind of response question is whether capitalism who is capitalism i mean its 201920 years ago we had the strongest economy known to man with you know Everything Technology and the promises of the internet and efficiency the lowest real rate of unemployment back then versus real unemployment right now being a multiple of what the government states that it is so why was capitalism working so splendidly back then versus the over indebted over leveraged version of it right now it really begs the question over if its classical kind of adam smith and david ricardo. Joseph schumpeter capitalism as taught in college and grad school or if its more of an i and randy and survival of the fittest at any and all costs by any means necessary vulture market fundamentalism that is built on increasing amounts of Financial Leverage and speculation versus actual manufacturing productivity and this is stand ability of a middle class i dont think its working in the same way that it had in decades past ok its good alexander in the annapolis i mean i think thats the point here is that i am actually for capitalism ok i dont want any misunderstanding but im i want to work for everyone or more people and its working for now ok because we we see you know we hear you know depending on what side of the political aisle you are you know how well the economy is doing well its doing really well for rich people and that is undeniable when it goes a little bit further down i think its a lot more nuanced than the talking points that you hear on c. N. N. Or fox go ahead alexandra. I think i think youre right peter its always more nuanced than that the talking points from here on fox but i mean adam smith himself wasnt naive and he recognized he wrote in his wealth of nations about the that that that free markets would produce inequality he wrote for everyone rich men there will be 500. 00 poor and right but for him the universal opulence that free markets would produce was worth was worth it and we see that empirically objectively that that capitalism has has done a lot of good and reducing global poverty the number of times it was all those who live on a dollar a day has reduced by 80 percent in the last 3 and a half decades and so you cant you cant argue with with with facts like that ok jeffrey more or less the same question to you i mean theres a lot of things are you t. Particularly in the United States in europe theres a lot of austerity theres not a lot of hope actually ok. I mean its treading water in europe and the United States again depending on how you want to interpret numbers i mean im glad the stock markets doing really well but that doesnt really tell you how the average person is living i mean i think theyre very much separated they have been for the last 40 years so i mean it is capitalism serving the interest of the majority and shouldnt be more than just a majority everyone go ahead jeffrey. There are very specific reasons i think why growth levels declined over the last 40 years and this is i think what were really talking about here and you know people have expectations that every generations can be better off than the previous generation right there so that was the way we live there was an unsupported postwar era and thats something happened you know in the early ninetys seventys drab down the state of growth and i think that something is not capitalism its over regulation everythings over the regulators very difficult to have for if you are of i. P. O. s that we used to for example just because the stock market is heavily everywhere you regulate Financial Regulation is afflicted us in a grim way ever since 2800 when they tried to fix the system and actually made everything worse worse it has produced too much leverage and. This is again i think were using the wrong term its like not capitalism i think its really regulation and central banking and just a lack of access as wrap of the growth levels and some some level in some way its outrageous actually that weve weve come to this expectation rolling out to grow what one or 2 percent a year this is crazy in the gilded age you know we had double double digit growth because the economy was much freer if we would free up the Financial System get some sound money and get rid of the regulatory barriers and heres whats interesting about whats going on right now with the trumpet ministration in some ways theres a lot of deregulation and thats good in other ways theres even more i mean what trump has done to trade is is created a kind of chaos and its increasing prices at the lemonade in export markets and distributes supply chains and its really massively reduced Investment Business investment in particular in the Manufacturing Sector sector in the u. S. And thats only going to reduce grows more and guess what people are going to blame not protectionism by regulation once again near a budget where. Capitalism oh its not working its not working so i think we did have the wrong name for the problem well i dont think i think yeah i think its actually the right goal to find regulatory either and i think it is the right name because thats what people are saying ok as a juxtaposition to socialism so i think thats important here in a pie let me go back to you i mean one of the most important thing he got here we had to keep moving here you know the consumption is the most important part to be Economic Growth right now but if that is under strain it is under strain i mean the number of people that have low paying jobs now is extraordinary and then the savings level is negligible a shock can really hurt tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of people and it seems to me that if youre not concerned about peoples consumption because that is the golden goose that lays the egg here that drives the economy shouldnt we be looking more at families and keeping Families Together and speaking as a conservative it seems to me that makes much more sense because this whole financial ization of the economy it just makes the rich super super rich which is just fine with me but i worry about the middle class go ahead guy. I mean what middle class kind of. You know what i was saying earlier as far as you know the postwar war phase of a middle class a building has been dissipated over the past 20 years. You know people in suburbia and rural parts are wondering why the number of homeless have skyrocketed they attributed to laziness or and or drug abuse 2. And in part because dad dad a proper dad a real transparent dad is not plentiful from the government and hence it causes confusion so that people blame citizens especially after the 08 crisis which tweaked the economy it was already in over leverage system the government came in to leverage to do even further amount of debt in the. Thats announced is a multiple a grave multiple of what it had been before the real rate of debt including for instance a derivatives notional value of derivatives contracts globally is in the hundreds of trillions of dollars not even a number at that point we face catastrophe and a 2nd Great Depression in less than 90 years and yet people are calling it a Great Recession theyre evading it the other thing earlier you were mentioning. Capitalism versus socialism i mean the confusion is over there is a socialism existing within america in the u. K. Its a socialism essentially for the rich oh yeah oh for fastened its basically take if it was genuine capitalism which involves competition comparative advantages as written about. Then what as recorded written about what youd have as is failure of going concerns that are not going anymore instead you had a socialism come in and bail out banks calling other banks and various back back of the curtain political decisions that were made over Lehman Brothers and bear stearns specifically and youre about to have a reprise of it because theres so much leverage in the system collaterals not being trusted in between banks and Counter Party Insurance Firms and yet the fad and very counter democratic and counter a capitalistic practices is keeping its mouth sealed over whos in trouble how theyre in trouble why theyre in trouble how many further tens of billions dove dollars per night is being put into the overnight lending reposed market in order to bail out already bankrupted firms because they know better nobody else in the in the in the thats all it is is that evil of understanding their lucid ation thats what they said in prior to the 2008 crisis here alexandria hi kind of got ahead of me here and what i wanted to ask is that there is a common criticism and i think its an interesting characterization is that there is socialism in america and its for the rich and its the its the really everybody else has to go through the rigors of capitalism there is something to that go ahead an indianapolis. Yeah its its interesting i think the most effective way of defending capitalism today is through the words of the father of capitalism himself out of smith who is the intellectual hero of mine and smith said over and over again in his famous book the book that made him famous mr the theory of moral sentiments that any system any odd Economic System free markets or otherwise would only be as effective as good as the people who as the virtue of as the more ality of the people who who lived under the system and i think that thats true today and there are moral sentiments myths talks about the of the need for Human Embassy the need for compassion the need for and the need for sympathy and i think that that is one problem with the rise of inequality today where its increasingly of that there that that the case that there are 2 americas where people in the upper echelons of society have no idea how people at the time when i was lines. In the struggle to let you have so. Well can i think thats one reason why we see socialism on the rise ok were going to go to a short break here you know one thing i want to show you here the one good thing about having your own program we get to talk about adam smith another really smart people i like that ok after a short break well continue our discussion on capitalism today with 30. Years. See i guess. I was on the floor something in my pants. Where is the. I was having children fever i didnt have any sense of. Loose you know. What you. Recently she hit us on the goal of this initiative. Simon is on the ground so. I have didnt. Lose myself to this for me in the 58 ill go to. We go to work you straight home. To move. Me who grew. Up where you. Going to go to. Definitely walking into words in a we no longer know what were walking into. March. What if you need to break. This. Vicious possible sense of so. Welcome back to where all things are considered im Peter Lavelle were discussing capitalism. Ok lets go back to jeffery in new york and in my introduction we thought i mentioned the important issue of inequality and any society all societies through history when you have. A ratio of inequality gets so high you have political instability and its something everyone should look at and i think that really accounts for a lot of the disk. And tend to round the globe is because that ratio was hit a certain Critical Mass how do we deal with that inequality here i mean i said in the 1st part of the program you know i dont have this the whole you know Elizabeth Warren mantra you know Bernie Sanders mantra against billionaires i dont im not against billionaires im i guess i really want more equality and im coming from a conservative perspective here because im looking at the health of society the health the health of the middle class is ok because i believe in the middle classes the rich im not so i dont care about them theyre rich go ahead jeffrey. You know theres 2 ways you can bring about more equality in society one is by lifting up the poor in the middle class to be richer and i think thats what that whats happened the data actually show this with the other way is just to just to abolish billionaires a buyers levelers leveling American Public to know leveling is not going to work at the best catastrophic so im actually i actually worry about the term equality here because of for so its a term derived from math so its very contingent on proper data my colleague phil magnus said has been running the numbers now for the last 5 or 10 years and hes got completely revised that and showing that theres been no rise in inequality is such in the United States its about this since the 1960 s. A lot of that is being manipulated for political reasons i would caution you to just you know except. The proud of that you get a Mainstream Press about this whole time and look around to even question about this idea that somehow the the poor are suffering in this to america the last of it you know the poor have to do it have a so much access to Good Services like theres never been before that walmart so ubiquitous prices are falling for clothing and food america just spent 3040 percent of the budgets of food now its less than 10 percent you know the basic access has been almost universal laws that i really sometimes i think a lot of this talk about inequality is just a bunch of convention about but nothing is done so this is perfect right but i think what were really interested is not more equality bit more opportunity ok for adults ok and i think thats going to come about through for the for the for the do very well for the deregulations i think we should be a little more precise in our terminology what we want is is equal access and opportunity for everybody and for everybody to get richer right thats that thats what i think we should seek i was talking to a socialist by the way the on a on a train in new york. She said im a socialist and im like ok this is going to be a long trip and i thought out i asked her. About this isnt the thing that we want everybody to be universally rich she said no we do not because the rich always get rich at the expense of everybody else so and there so i think she is wrong and in a true Capitalistic Society every trade that takes place should be richly advantageous advantageous we can all make wealth together and a cooperative yeah because the way that large made us perspective on why i lived in communist Eastern Europe in the 1980 s. Nobody has to tell me about communism in marxist theory i lived through it ok and it is a dead end full stop ok ok pie a lot of inequality to write a lot of and there was an enormous amount of inequality and communism ok i absolutely had to be good see i want to keep that inequality going let me go to pile here but theres the perception i agree with ok jump in go ahead thats a point of program go ahead in a way yeah i i agree with i agree with jeffrey were guarding the earlier statement that he had made a couple of things involving the issue of sound money that he had referenced as well as what he just said as far as opportunity if youre lazy and you know you just dont want to work then theres really kind of no need to kind of apply the ball of equality to you however if you want to be socially immobile and youre willing to work you should be able to have some advantage within a genuinely Capitalistic Society agreed on them as we dont live right now currently in a genuinely Capitalistic Society jeffrey should really really evaluate what were genuinely living in the Federal Reserve is this socialistic of an institution by definition i mean marx was very pro central bank i agree with as ken exists and is being socialistic again as we had referenced earlier towards a very. A very small percentage of people that have purse unprecedented levels of Insider Information yeah and shared amongst each other and have managed to gain aggressively over the past certainly over the past decade let alone really since the dot com bubble burst or as you know your average joe that what she wishes to work harder have his or her kids. Do better than his or her generation did have it that much more difficult why because jeffrey was mentioning that inflation and and other data is not as bad as it seems it is ok if you be picky and choosey with regard to inflation youre not listing insurance premiums youre not listing education costs youre not listing medical costs that tend to put people into bankruptcy and and outright homelessness fairly rapidly then you know youre not youre not youre not youre being youre being totalitarian and i use that word tactically youre being totalitarian with regard to information dissemination to quote your rough paraphrase your guest in the midwest you need you know the smithy and morality that was referenced earlier resides on a bedrock of proper transparent credible honest information and the worst the system the bigger the lies and were suffering from systematically lying from the fed and the bureau of labor statistics and others on down to the point where people are unable to plan the currency itself is so graphic catastrophic lee debased that we dont know what it means anymore and its by design a nerd and then replace this dollar thats essentially a used dish rag by Something Digital nontransparent auditable and turn off of will for lack of a better word visa via the block chain within the next several years because the powers that be know what they what theyre doing. Theyve known that that all of the thief dollars per se is going to have a shelf life to it thats why we went off the Gold Standard back in 71. 00 and thats not coincidentally the timing of that with regard to you know gradually dissipating. You know lifestyles and hollowing out of the middle class is because the currency itself is not ok Alexandria One of the things that its touched upon it already in this program but you know i think its something we should be really worried about is the generation in their indebtedness and their prospects prospects for the future when you when youre laden with so much debt you ended up living with your parents in your early thirtys youre not getting a job in the field that you study which you know that happens a lot but when you study something with studies at the end of it well you should be as a head a heads up youre not going to do that ok and being after university and getting a degree a degree youre in low wage jobs jobs and that is again this appeal of socialism because they see that its so insurmountable theyre not going to do better than their parents and that is vivid thats very real when youre living in the basement thats really real go ahead alexandra. I think youre right peter that this this issue of rising student debt and a dearth of well paying jobs has contributed to mistrust in free market system as being a system that works for everyone i absolutely agree but i mean as was mentioned by my fellow panelists just a few moments ago objective measures of standard of living are i mean were living longer where we are we are more educated you know a litany of these touchstones for for general well physical well being and objective standards of living are up yet i think whats important keep in mind is that we are not just you know physical beings were social beings were spiritual beings were emotional beings as well and we do have this sort of crisis of meaning where about a few moments ago peter you talked about the family how do we support the family we see the family breaking down the church breaking down communities breaking down all across the country and i think that people are displaced daily these are the traditional foundations of where people derive their meaning from and without those people are looking to to ideology it in this describes the rise especially them in tribalism and other radical ideologies as well and you also mentioned a little while ago peter Eastern Europe and your time there and i think thats a really powerful illustration theres a great book by a gentleman named Ernst Gellman called the conditions of liberty where he talks about this this struggle in the post soviet era where in the west we were well meaning and tried to airdrop these democratic and free market institutions on these post soviet countries and they didnt work because there was this lack of community this lack of social trust this lack of civic bonds between individual citizens that have been so corroded by years of mistrust under under communism and so i think its important for this missing in point that any system is only as strong as as individuals and individual communities as well you know its kind of a twist on that great churchill line. I kept the worst of all except for all the others ok but lets go to jeffrey go back to jeffrey new york but the other one thats being touted so much is socialism and on this program weve made a number of programs on the appeal of it i mean i find it a poor and but it does get a lot of traction and we have president ial candidates speaking about it in the most positive way and i think that is a disastrous pound i mean i think capitalism as it exists today calling some of the things that pie and say needs to be reformed in modified but dont throw it all out no way because i saw i saw the past and i saw the past and it failed well give the last minute to jeffrey go ahead. Yeah its been its been unbelievable to see the rise of social side the ology in the last you know 10 years in that sense i never i was i remember when this all collapsed in 1009 i thought well you know we dont have to worry about that in wherever we are socialist and where well here we are and socialism is and all the academia young people are supporting that made sure they knew what it means maybe that means rule by a social media or something i think out of the know but socialism is new is popular and i worry about its an absolute cancer you know i do think it is 1st of all its an academic you have sort of exercises coming out of the universities which are largely subsidized by government and by the brits terrible stew student loan problem which is a very serious issue which is the sells itself a socialist a constitution because kids are getting themselves massively in debt and 66. 00 figures and barely giving their greed is not news or degrees once they get out of out of college and then they get really bitter because theyve got another 20 years of payments coming out of in the cab the carberry bankruptcy if they dont pay him that as well and i will tell him thats all ignore that its all the time we have here are careful and its all its all the jobs are we run a time and i want to know my own note here that educational system is a fraud and it should be ended and be for audit ok thats all the time we have many thanks to my guests in New York Los Angeles and in indianapolis and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our d. C. Unix time and remember crosstalk rules. Time after time corporations repeat the same mantra sustainability its very important to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport sustainability stadium in a more equitable and sustainable world. They claim their production is completely harmless. It. Companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away and this is something ill just want any minute i need money. On disk. Is your media a reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe. High salacious community. Are you going the right way or are you being led so. What is true what is faith. In a world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Or a maybe in the shallows. As the us economy was booming growing numbers of people were made homeless. You can work 40 hours d in a week and still not have enough to get housing everybody believes america still has the lead up to the reality of it is that were not financially equality and the lack of Affordable Housing for a living minimum wage gave many people no choice. Thats been a problem with the city knows turn a bitch and told me stay away oh miss. The food that there is no answer because yes that requires resources. The most vulnerable are abandoned on the streets to become invisible clubs. 1000. See. I say. I. Just. This is all to you kerry welcome 2 of us from around the world were live from Central London and were currently awaiting the governments daily Coronavirus Press briefing from downing street meanwhile all the headlines the. Britain prepares to see an increase in the number of coronavirus fatalities with home deaths to be included in the daily count that says labor leaders secure star much challenges the government to publish a lock exit strategy. The pandemic could result in almost 800000 extra deaths from cancer in england due to delays in diagnosis and treatment thats a form of h o adviser and cancer specialist professor carol sykora tells us that the virus is simply overwhelmed the system. Its like a gap you open. The water flows up and floods the valley and gushes down and we cant cope with all those patients were going to have to work related to the evening and we can surround the place to do it. And tests have been seen as the paul thought of lockdown but scientists warn that the couple must understand well they wont then limitations are here from a professor of immunology a little later. This hour report compares the scale of the forces economic fallout to the Great Depression nearly 100 years ago ill be joined by an economics expert. Britains daily coronavirus death toll is expected to rocket after the government facilities or fatalities would also be included in the figures and now we can cross live to the governments daily press briefing. Good afternoon and welcome to todays downing street press Conference Im pleased to be joined by professor Jonathan Van Tam deputy chief medical officer and also professor yvonne doyle medical director of Public Health england let me just start by saying i think on behalf of us all a huge congratulations to the Prime Minister and to carry on the wonderful news of the birth of their baby boy ive spoken to the pm and i can tell you that both mum and son are doing really well. Now next let me give an update on the latest data on. Own coronavirus from our cobra data file and i can report that through the governments ongoing monitoring and Testing Program as of today they have now being 8 118539 tests for the virus across the u. K. Including 52429 tests that took place yesterday 165221 people have tested positive and thats an increase of 4076 cases on yesterdays and none but. Now as the Health Sector announced yesterday from today were moving to an improved daily reporting system for deaths so that deaths in all settings are included wherever the individual has tested positive for coated 19 rather than just those in hospitals and those figures show that up to yesterday on the new measure what we have recorded an additional 3811. 00 deaths in total and i think its just important to say that those additional deaths were spread over the period from the 2nd of march the 28th of april so they they dont represent a sudden surge in the number of deaths. Sadly todays figures show an additional 765 deaths compared to yesterday that professor durrell talk us through the data in detail in a little while but i think we must never lose sight of the fact that behind every statistic there are many human lives that have been tragically lost before their time. We also pay tribute of course to those caring for the sick and yesterday 11 oclock in the morning the whole country observed a minutes silence a moment to reflect on the sacrifice of all of our frontline workers who have died was dedicate themselves to caring for and serving others. Now on the 16th of april i set out 5 principles that would guide our approach to the transition away from the current set of social distancing measures in place and into a 2nd phase we continue to see evidence in the data of a flattening of the peak of the virus and that is only happening because we delivered on the 2 central pillars of our strategic approach to defeating the coronavirus the 1st one was that we reinforced n. H. S. Capacity through the night in the hospitals the extra Critical Care capacity more ventilator beds and extra doctors and nurses on the front line and the 2nd is that we introduced the social distancing measures at the right time guided by the scientific and medical evidence and the publics overwhelming support for those rules has helped save lives and protect the n. H. S. From becoming overwhelmed now we still coming through the peak and this is as ive said before a delicate and dangerous moment in this crisis so i know that a lot of people have made a lot of sacrifices which is why its so important that we dont get up now and risk undoing all of that hard work so as we look to the future our 5 tests remain absolutely key. 1st we must continue to boost and it jesca Battery Capacity preventing it from being overwhelmed 2nd we need to see a sustained and consistent fall in the number of deaths thirdly we need to see further reductions in the rate of infection to manageable levels across all the relevant areas and settings. And 4th we must be confident the n. H. S. Will be able to cope with future demands and that includes as a result of any changes to existing measures or new measures that we may need to take the. 5th and i think this is probably the most critical of the 5 principles we need to be confident that any adjustments to the current measures will not risk a 2nd peak of infections that could overwhelm the n. H. S. A 2nd spike would be harmful to Public Health and it would result in many more deaths from covert 19 that itself would lead to a 2nd lockdown inflicting further prolonged economic pain on the country and as the governor of the bank of england and you bailey said last week that would just be economically dangerous it would inflict serious blow to public confidence. So this issue of a 2nd spike and the need to avoid it its not a theoretical risk and its not something thats just confined to the United Kingdom. Having relaxed restrictions in germany over the last week theyve seen a rise in the transmission rate of coronavirus the chancellor merkel has said publicly and shes made it clear that they might need a 2nd look down in germany if if the infection rate continues to rise so this is a very real risk and its vital we proceed carefully guided by the scientific advice so that our next step through this crisis is a sure footed one. We mustnt gamble away the sacrifices and the progress that weve made we must continue to follow the Scientific Evidence and we must continue to take the right decisions at the right moment in time. Now we are working on all of the potential options for a 2nd phase there is light at the end of the tunnel where you will an n. H. S. Worker on the front line working tirelessly shift after shift or parent at home with young children. But we do need to be patient and we need to be careful as we come through what is a moment of maximum risk so you will wait for sages next review the data in early may were ramping up the testing weve capacity now at over 73000. 00 per day and 52429. 00 tests carried out today and eligibility for those tests is now being expanded again further to include anyone who needs to go to work but cant work and cant work remotely and who has symptoms it also includes anyone over 65 with symptoms and all carry residents as well as care home stuff and at the same time as we ramp up the Testing Capacity will keep working on our tracking and tracing capability which is going to be a key component in the next phase of this crisis. Who continue to source ventilators and personal protective equipment both at home and abroad pull data is leading the National Effort to increase Domestic Production and supply we continue to source p. P. From abroad we setting ourselves out as the International Buyer of choice in the International Marketplace and i can tell you that in the last 10 days weve secured over 5000000 mass in china weve had 3 flights accounts from turkey because we know that every single one of those items at p. P. Is needed by those working so hard on the front line both in n. H. S. And also in our care homes and our international if it isnt confined to procurement. I can tell you weve also made enormous progress in returning british nationals who otherwise would have been at risk of being stranded and those dont rob there given the u. K. Governments daily Coronavirus Press briefing he said there were over 26000. 00 deaths in total including community and deaths 765. 00 more on yesterday also rio the governments 5 tests for lifting the lockdown but said no was not the time to do so referencing germany were a 2nd lockdown could be implemented following an easing of restrictions or u. K. Shut it was dusty is still with me here in the studio show you still in all the exit plan no no sign of an exit plan just yet in fact we just heard from Dominic Robert de facto Prime Minister of course standing in for Boris Johnson today at the daily press and earlier today a Prime Ministers questions were secure start at the leader of the labor party was particularly grilling him on an exit strategy to get out of this lockdown period now even though Boris Johnson is back at work today his partner his fiance caris imus has just given birth to a baby boy which is why he was not present at the dispatch box today both of them both kerry and Boris Johnson suffering from kovac 19 over recent weeks Boris Johnson in a more severe capacity staying in intensive care to try and get out of his own battle of 19 but for her even out a very heavily pregnant time its understood Boris Johnson will not be taking paternity leave right now he wants to be back in action to handle this crisis so in his place was dominic rob really fending off the questions from so kids start to focus particularly on the United Kingdoms death toll that we heard from dominic rop in the press briefing psychist amik stomach quoted to say this is a truly dreadful number and could even be an underestimate and says the United Kingdom is headed to be the worst affected across the whole of europe but he also paid particular attention on the need for the public to see the government producing and publishing an exit strategy to get out of this locked down period or at least give an idea of one of roadmap of when it might happen. What im asking for is the government be open with the british people about what comes next thats crucial for 3 reasons we need to trust secondly the government itself the Public Schools businesses trade unions need to plan ahead and theyre saying that loudly and clearly 3rd and frankly wed like to transfer the Government Strategy but we know what it is i think its important for us to do so if we can we cant do that if the government wont share its thinking the Prime Minister said on monday that he wanted maximum transparency well look the 1st secretary give us some now and tell us when the government will publish an exit strategy based on the advice and the evidence that we had from sage which he said he wants to closely follow it will be very difficult for us to responsibly set out those proposals before weve had that subsequent advice from sage both on the rate of infection the death rate but also the measures that would be responsible to make matters right with the greatest respect and i understand hes trying to be constructive we cant be pulled in to making proposals in advance without say joe klein so say if thats the group that Dominic Roberts speaking of is a group of different scientists look at the modeling and the statistics to look at how we might be able to get out of this parrot meanwhile though many of the cabinet ministers are really being grilled themselves over how they may have been best at well prepared and weve had that michael gove a cabinet minister has even admitted that hes only just read operation sickness out that indeed is a report that was published way back in 2016 looking at how the government and the capital may respond to pandemics such as this one so it seems like many eyes are on the government of how they could have been better prepared for this pandemic. Shadier thanks very much indeed for all of that. The current of ars pandemic could cause a large increase in deaths from Cancer Patients avoid tests and hospitals delaying the Treatments Research by University College london and the Health Data Research up to cancer says that almost 18000 extra deaths from cancer could occur in england with in a year due to the pandemic could also lead to at least 20 percent more deaths in newly diagnosed patients over the next 12 months it will have a 76 percent for an urgent cancer referrals from g. P. s and a 60 percent decrease in chemotherapy attendances compared to previous levels and thats as cancer expert in the former w. H. O. Advisor professor carol sykora says that britain should start lifting the lockdown from this coming monday he says schools pubs and bars should be opened by the end of may if there is no spike in the number of cases and the government has not yet published an exit plan despite demands from the opposition but none is joined by the man himself former director of the w. H. O. Cancer program and professor of medicine at the university of buckingham carroll sykora and he told me that we do need to lift the lockdown to concentrate on other diseases its like a dam the dam the water flows up and floods the valley and it gushes down and we cant cope with all those patients were going to have to work related to the evening and we can surround the place to do it involve the private sector there are all sorts of ways that of getting round it but its got to be done quickly the calculation of University College this morning its about right thats contingent on maybe just a 6 week delay if it was a 6 month delay lets say theres a the virus just doesnt go away for a long period of time we have to keep hospitals working just strong too good were going to get stuck again on a 6 month delay could cause 50000 through cancer so we have to try and get moving can you reassure people that it is safe because the government says that treatments can start up again there are indeed adverts calling on people to see their doctor if they suspect anything is wrong. Absolutely it is safe and now weve got the testing ramped up you know its going to be difficult for our Health Ministry to promise 100000 tests back tomorrow the end of april if it doesnt reach that number thats not that the absolute number doesnt matter its sustainable testing to identify those that are coded positive and should have put in isolation before they go for treatment those who are negative going to the Cancer Treatment for surgery and the other Cancer Treatments we have available people shouldnt be put off from going to hospital now you have one legions of fans on twitter for presenting the coronavirus data in a more positive way but of course the daily death rate is still high and was certainly not out of the woods why are you giving that level of optimism the death rate is artificially you know its not really as quite as bad as it seems 1st of all every day sadly in britain 1700 people will die so its that different strain those that would have died anyway and those that died with because of corona that really makes the difference and if you take the pure old people that have died actually of corona and thats how the german figures are presented its actually forming quite markedly and now to actual the government decided only yesterday to add the care home figures to the total deaths were out before they were so that is not dropping very pacific just because youve added more deaths from the care homes is just how the figures i handled i think within the next 2 weeks will be coming out of it and still to come this report predicts unprecedented changes to our Global Economy the effects of the virus to last for years we hear from the group behind that they. Had to put the tests of the scene is a belt of lockdown but so i just want to pick up what must understand what the limitations are here from a professor of economics you. Seemed wrong. But old rules just dont. Let me. Get to shape out just because get educated and engagement equals betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart. Just to look for common ground. The world is driven by a dream shaped by one person if there is. No dares thinks. We dare to ask. We go to work so we stray home. Until the tests have been seen as the Golden Ticket to easing the down but theres still a long way to go in order to prove they will be effective in halting the spread all the virus. Made in the body and can be effective in providing immunity against future infection but writing in medical journal the lancet scientists of caution that governments must have a deep understanding of that bodies and how they work in relation to the virus experts say that there is no certainty that antibodies will give protection against this disease all how long will they might last well for more on all of this im joined by professor of immunology at Imperial College danny holden thank you very much for being with us so in effect the governments role to put faith in Antibody Test at this stage. Well and put it simply is that i think we desperately need and be casting in general so you know scientists talk about 0 prevalence thats measuring antibodies in the population as widely as possible to understand whos seen this virus and who hasnt and better think we all think all over the world is desperately important and were all scrambling for data because if we havent got that data you know we havent got a clue how widely the viruses spread how wide herd immunity is so thats thats one point thats not quite the same as whether there is that you in the future in some kind of an antibody passport to say on an individual level who safe to go to work and who isnt which is a whole other ballgame and much more worrying why is there a question over this because obviously the virus has been around for a little while now and of course most antibodies do work for most diseases is that right to say so why is a question over this particular virus. I think is not special to this forces so the reason that people like me are in employment is that viruses and bacteria and fungus i are very complex and very different and the immune system has many thousands of cells in it and different types of antibodies and devil really is in the detail and for every infection that we look out there are different socalled correlates of protection and the kind of point that we make and its a point we were making in a paper we published yesterday in the long search which we called what policymakers need to know about covert 19 particular munity and get a clue is in the title is that you cant guess these things you need to study them need to know them and so you need to be able to say for this infection whats you know what how much immunity of what type what flavor do you need to be safe if you dont know that you know you dont know if youre safe because another complication some people get immunity and others might not. So you know i was asked to give evidence yesterday to the Parliamentary Committee on this and i think well expressions i used was that looking at a graph of peoples antibody levels is that i look at a scatter gun fight a page people all over the place someone high some low some have you know almost no immunity some every community and theres almost no predicting where youre going to be on that graph what appear really interpret it and what about the next important step is a vaccine some say could happen as Early September others say it could be at least 12 months who we believe. I think. I hope will kind of seeing it seeing through same hymn sheet that there are you know Something Like a 100 different candidates in preparation around the world normally it would take many years to bring one of those true trials to licensing to roll out. Here you know were talking about trying to fast track that enormously so for my taste no one year would be fast and probably not fast enough for some peoples tastes. So you know i think every working as fast as they can and its been you know heroic in fantastic and all those 100 you know a handful of them look at the finishing line and will probably be good and just finally and briefly that mind your thoughts on the potential easing of the lockdown because obviously there is a lot of pressure now are we going to do that too early do you think well you know youd expect that as a professor of immunology im on the kind of laid by science cautious side of this argument. You know i do believe weve got to be very secure because all it is are a social economic argument the virus doesnt care about our g. D. P. Its still lurking there we have no immunity itll come back again thank you very much indeed professor danny altman really appreciate your time here in r. T. K. Ephedra. And the professor there talking about economics and g. D. P. Will fall out from the pandemic could last for 2 years with subsequent waves of the virus adding to the current economic damage thats according to report by the institute of Economic Affairs which says that government must be prepared to invest to get through the crisis it claims the pandemic is moderates when compared to historical plagues but it doesnt mean the impact is any less serious when it expects world economies to experience a severe drop in g. D. P. The summit but the turmoil could see an acceleration of changes in how we work already seen and innovations such as Online Shopping or Remote Working governments will also be faced with a large bill with the global debt crisis likely and a period of high inflation to follow it also states the crisis will see governments move away from further economic integration with the Global Economy and the report identified intensive farming as a source of the transmission of a new disease triggering a future pandemic it added that the development of vaccines and tests could be accelerated by relaxing existing regulations. Also called for more Robust Health care systems and changes to Adult Social Care provision while or for more reaction to this im joined by the university of londons professor keith bill being very good to see you sort of the pandemic ringback has exposed many of the weaknesses of the the Global Market system is this report right to talk about a retreat from globalisation. Well i think it is because this is the striking thing about these viruses because people together for instance right away on that log how to get people to travel it is a high risk of infection so people are going to worry about these kinds of issues so thats a major effect of globalization is just part of the problem industry and of course businesses so its a very curious thing this corona virus because it seems designed in a way to maximize the economic damage so you can get the economies got it going to be very difficult in the street where people like to call the state to rest from all this kind of thing. It could. Go on the prices of Global Production so that this report which we talk about advocates for less regulation a free market that is the way to go. Well im being a lot you have more regular i should help the various have not less and where the free market is the solution is a real problem because what were seeing is the government intervening in rescuing you know industry contacts of our private survey and lots of people by a parallel Car Companies are looking for parallel but better you know capitalism isnt working about that but to buy out the governments policies these bailouts keep the. Talk about businesses front of workers helping the self employed this will surely help. Create a better bounce back when this is over for the economy would it not its a cushion the blow in some ways oh it may have cushion the blow but the question is what for the future because some im going to buy progressive goals at the moment guess you think you know my mate or of the money 02 of the 5 im going to play got back and said we go through problem. Cuts will go up but the shore personally comes back to go out into so we get to act like real problems on the rest of my team that really i mean. Some people think its going to be a quick out but i just i would say ringback that because it was going to be a lot of industries got a struggle to survive you know i could get by 2 months 345 months to get this kind of rate your body baby did this is collapse and you are just funny looking any positives in for example all of us working from home leading to better Work Life Balance for knowledge policy and what those. Well i think sometimes for 5 it could be wasting a lot of money theyve been wasting a lot of money also they think like travel excessive travel and expected to travel which i might find if you do this so theyd be quite a lot of ways we can become more efficient im sure i dont so i think what will happen is we will start cutting down all the bureaucracy i think way too much bureaucracy britain usa and everywhere so i think these kind of you are. Really getting much value added they get a part of it but that actually might affect the economy very much might not prove it. Because it keeps building great to talk to you on this today thank you for being with us and thats it for the moment more news in from now. Seems. To me that you get to keep. This thing the ticker. And in detroit it was betrayed. When something was worlds apart. Just in the. We conferred. Walking into words all in all we no longer know what were walking into a march. Which is unique steve ritchie. Possible. So. Its time. We have been listening but only one night im. Hoping that if. It is taken a machine if. I dont last were getting a lot of lift. You must put that one ill be your wife pounding on. This is not a Bank Robberies and the 100 housing 1. 100 pounds. Just dont want me to