The director of the Free Market Institute professor of economics at Texas Tech University as well as a senior fellow with the independent institute and in los angeles we cross to he is an independent economic and geopolitical analyst as well as a former commodities trader all right gentlemen crossed up rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciating lets go to los angeles 1st here i said in my introduction i guess probably the most important question there is as we come out of this pandemic and its all going to be about the economy and its everything were going to think about for the next few months if not years is about recovery so infer a very simple question will it be a v. A you or an l go here well weve been in an l. Shaped depression since the 2008 financial crisis i mean only that true Economic Data on unemployment inflation g. D. P. And the like have been warped or hidden. Outrage while the fed pumped up the stock market to give the appearance of a genuine economic recovery and a wee bit in a structural downturn rather than a typically cyclical recession and those arent easy to get out of all of this since february is essentially marking to market if you will of collective economic metrics as the fake money pumping charade is being wrapped up in favor of a longer term plan monetary paradigm shift out rate and i remember the last time we spoke we were talking about the turbulence in the oil market the oil price that that seems like at a kindergarten play be considered considering whats going on now ben let me go to you the same question a of the you or an l because that will really dictate what kind of policy is necessary to get out of this slump go ahead ben well i think policy has a lot to do with what type of shape it is so right now were in a flat line and its because we have a shutdown orders that are essentially telling people not to produce so the question is when shutdown orders are lifted what is normal Economic Activity and recovery look like and i dont think it looks like a b. Because that wouldnt buy that were going back to the economic role we all lived in at the start of the year but the virus is still going to be with us so opening back up means taking account of that and weighing that in our economic transactions so restaurants working at half capacity or a 3rd capacity whatever customers and entrepreneurs do you save airlines that much less than all of these things going to abide by bouncing back to where we were now i think whats important is that we dont have to dumb Government Policies preventing Entrepreneurial Solutions that let us make our recovery as quick as we can and not stick us in hell so its somewhere more like hey you somewhere in between but thats really got to be for the market process to sort out. You know came that scene thats talk about the market here you know we have now as we speak and i think it was as of today 26000000 people over the past 5 weeks have gone on unemployment and now this is massive i mean if someone would have told me this is a scenario what it is i would have been in comprehensible to me a month and a half ago and now. What needs to be done because that these are the people that consume and they get out of a slump you need a lot of consumption and you know i know that theres been potential aid being sent directly to individuals but it seems to be a pittance because most people will use that allowance from the government to pay off debts more than anything else than consume and ben is absolutely right i mean just because you opened up the economy doesnt mean this pandemic has been completely nailed down and vanquished and i still think people be very very hesitant to go out in public and consume even if they have the money and having the money is a big if right now go ahead by having the money and money i say increasingly in quotes and we have certain banks in the south and southeast outright revolting wanting to get back to work and trying to dilly dallying and flip flopping between supporting them versus not whereas the northeast the northwest the west where i am just you know diligently by the book following whatever the government mandates i mean i think theres a wider plan afoot because that mega banking and white or corporate conglomerate of stablish wants want to need them all of these Smaller Companies for instance to fail Small Businesses will soon be vacuumed up by banks they owe debt to already merged into a larger corporations under forced. Write monopolies in each industry. To repeat essentially the consolidations which took place 12 years ago only on a larger scale so these banks these mega banks for instance j. P. Morgan wells fargo b. Of a theyre being sued in class action tellingly for funding large or Small Businesses then smaller businesses with this Paycheck Protection Program p. P. P. Before that 350000000000. 00 in federal funds ran out why has the smallest Small Businesses dont pay these banks as much in fees as the larger Small Businesses quote unquote this is yet another unsustainable contradiction in the modern Economic System where clear socialistic government handouts are nonetheless being prioritized through private institutions foremost by their profit motives i mean all this stuff begs deeper questions yeah its a man and you know i hear only a lot about democratic socialism and all that and i lived in Eastern Europe during communism and i know what thats about ok so i dont really want to go that direction you know but the interesting thing is here banks are picking winners ok i mean it is very socialistic in that way because its not the its not the market picking winners its individuals with their very specific interests in mind in the course that is profit here and being a big supporter of entrepreneurship in small and medium sized businesses because as a conservative that is the very raw base of a Civil Society and im terrified to see these unemployment numbers and im terrified to see these Small Businesses go out of go out when fail and this consolidation here more inequality and we dont need to go in this direction what policy would you suggest to avoid that because it may be even too late for so many of these businesses go ahead. So lets bring it back i dont think we have a consumption problem what we have is a supply problem where people have been ordered to stop supplying things to the market sees work. Thats where unemployment spike comes from and thats the heart of all of our problems including the Small Businesses because i agree completely its a travesty whats being done to them right now but rather than government bailouts for businesses what we need is to be entrepreneurs including and especially the small entrepreneurs to figure out how they can best serve consumers and who want to do that and then it will grow the banks if the banks are avoiding them letting them just. Just fade away i mean how do we take the banks out of this because theyre the ones that are calling the shots go ahead. But we stop borrowing government money through these banks to do it it instead are our banks to get it wares and losers based on profit and loss and the problem is when you socialize losses through or through the government its ceased being a profit and loss estimate reallocates resources efficiently so government i think is going up that works in this process now we need to get back to business as usual in order to go hard and that will mean some bankruptcies both the small and large firms the key is that you want to collect the labor and Capital Market to reallocate those assets to where they can best serve consumers as quickly as possible. But i but you know you know in looking at this entire saga over the last few weeks in i think its absolutely shameful that Congress Goes on vacation you know will come back when theres an emergency that theres 26000000 a merchant sees out there right now ok i mean they were very quick to pad their own pockets and their friends and their special interests here and now theyre still grieve thinking about how to continue dealing with the other parts of the economy what were talking about small and medium sized businesses they dont to seem to feel the fire on their under their feet to deal with that they took care of their friends and themselves right off the bat like in 2008. Yeah i mean its 2008 and in a certain sense it was just kind of like a dry run of sorts for this multiple and all means and forms of what happened then you have to consider since 2008 i mean the money that the fed i mean the fed drove Something Like 93 percent of the stock market run since the 2008 financial crisis meanwhile realign employment was in double digits real inflation was much higher than what they stated that it was real g. D. P. Which is much lower than it was you know its lies damn lies and statistics as the trite phrase at this point goes by do you know just since february again you know flipping the switch off in the living room thats the equivalent of what the. What the powers that be have done essentially to. The economy so theyre no more corporate stock buybacks as of this point after februarys lockdowns so expect further eventual hemorrhaging within the stock market this is all meant to further benefit the ruling transatlantic a late which thinks in terms of app extend plans accordingly its aimed partly to call a portion of the population while conditioning the yearning for or non means tested quasi universal basic income via Digital Currencies for the millions of unemployed who fall into destitution. Cashless society is planned which has been sought for for years if you think about it by transnational banks the i. M. F. That b. A. s in switzerland is maggette institutions will be and should theyll be introducing a Cashless Society after the modern dollars reserve status and the currency collapses under aggressive inflation and mass treasury bond dumping globally which is already in procession i mean before this corona virus pandemic hit us private debt was over 150 percent of g. D. P. With corporate debt being like 73 percent and finance generally was like at 350 percent of g. D. P. Completely brittle on. Sustainable system we had were most dad at this point will be non serviceable under a depression triggered by stay at home orders so homelessness will spike even further as will infrastructure decay plagues crime and public riots anarchy and Small Businesses again going away near entirely it may sound extreme but if if you were to say that there would be lockdown orders and nobody would be able to go to work let alone to their family members 3 months ago that would have sounded extreme well ok benjamin yeah i saw it made good news were doing it on sky because i can see your expression go ahead and jump in reply go ahead yeah i mean that was a mouthful. I dont share these big s a mr. Assumptions about how things are going to go forward i mean i do think its policy contingent and i agree with you completely that this this shutdown water was like a light switch shutting off the economy or a large chunks of it thats detrimental to all of us but i think turning the light switch back on doesnt throw the power back on the way it wasnt january but our trip on earth through this process of big and small banks big and small will figure out the ways to serve consumers and bring supply to market as long as government doesnt get in the way this market process i think was recovering relatively well post. Was the Great Recession i agree completely there was crony bailouts during the Great Recession for those political elites and those connected but thats largely washed out of the system now were going to our other productive way and thats what id expect to happen if we got back to make a really because you just if you have to go to a heartbreak and after that heartbreak will continue our discussion and economic recovery saving. Journey has changed Many American lives but pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. Based drugs the people who are chronic pain patients and believe that their opioid prescription is working for them on the remedy ruby said to do. Price that they pay closer dependence and addiction to opiates to long term use that really isnt scientifically justified and our study actually suggested that the long term effects might not just be absence of benefit but actually that they might be causing long term. Childs seemed wrong all right old roles just dont all. Mean world that you get to shape out these days it comes to advocate and indeed treatment equals betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart when she stood up for common ground. Welcome back to crossfire things are considered im Peter Lavelle reminder were discussing the recovery of the economy. Ok im kind of to go back to you because i think you know done a number of programs on this particular topic just looking at it from different trajectories and i think one of the most probably the most common denominator in all of these programs ive been doing on this topic is that it is the government doing too little or is it doing too much ok the end it seems to me that everybody has a very strong opinion about that we can only use the same numbers and we can you know look at unemployment we can look at debt but then its always not you know that tool box that the government has to be doing enough are they doing too little go ahead. Thats an excellent question a really. Points to other questions over the role of government and you know these these pillars ideological pillars over the past 200 years of communism socialism and corporate capitalism market fundamentalism what is the meaning there of you know the february shutdown. Is just a rapid bringing up to pace of you know really these questions over the role of government because that government more or less hand in hand with that with private institutions like blackrock or pimco. You know married to the treasury and the fed are essentially dictating everything not just geo economics but politics domestically than geopolitics if you think about it but under the auspices of this of this pandemic of this massive crisis or as its just you know really piecemealing of its role prior crisis not again and prior to the 2008 financial crisis crisis the 2000 dot com burst you know and greenspans role and hike you know dropping Interest Rates artificially and aggressively you know void deflation its like what is socialism versus a genuine market fundamentalism in genuine free market capitalism when you have this quote unquote free hand free hand in the market not being so free and basically dictating so much if anything february showed overtly the very you know socialistic direct involvement of central banking and hybrid public and Private Banking and dictating the mors of our existence to our i dont care how efficient you run your company youre only 20 people i mean youre literally being put to the back of the line versus she you know shake shack for instance which you know is still making money is still bringing in revenue whether takeout or otherwise and yet you know they get pushed to the front of the line because the relationships column crony esther otherwise but its like wheres free market versus where its not its you know its all met to synthesize towards further hybridisation of what we would know classically as market fundamentalism versus just straight up you know giving 2000. 00 a month to folks that are destitute and or sick and not putting in them into poverty traps where the same time questionably limiting them from all of a sudden wanting to become entrepreneurial wanting to become elon musk wanting to learn. And in advance these are bigger questions that are just being brushed to the sidelines because again you dont want to get sick and ill and die so those you know its like theres purposeful confusion so that people arent able to think lucidly and rely further and further emotionally and psychically on government which transcends issues involving classical ideological definitions yeah i mean in the me in set yes it makes you kind of request question again so many assumptions here you know ben you know the thought of just sending out checks to individuals you know 1500. 00 and you know 2500. 00 for a family i mean if someone suggested that to me to with a 2 or 3 months ago my instinct would be in no i mean use the tax code ok giving money is something i dont really like doing now ive had a conversion because i see all of these people massive number of people a growing number of people they need cash in their pocket just to reboot even if its a one time thing which i still think is very small here i mean im just trying to point out how i have changed during this crisis because something that i would have not would have been very not agreeable with now im thinking you need to do more of it because you know we improve getting revoked when we have to get on the right foot instead of having an elbow or him probably be a you but its certainly not going to be a v. Its certainly not going to be a be a people cant consume go ahead ben well its certainly not going to be if they cant produce so this cash handouts youve got to remember its the government has ordered people not to work so big sound something. New on this might be changing from before just giving a cash handout when the governments actually doing the harm to the people but of course the government has no money of its own it has to take it from somebody else somewhere else either through inflation taxing or borrowing and were seeing with this happening with borrowing now i think your question of is the government doing too much or too little. Has been doing too much and for too long and in too many important sectors particularly as it relates to this crisis the Health Care Sector is one of the least market oriented sectors in the us economy is heavily regulated and we have seen regulatory failures in that. Whether its the c. D. C. Claiming a monopoly on having tests that botching the testing that puts the u. S. A month or so he im worried have been or what we are sitting is some government regulations being rolled back now to allow more Market Forces and health care and i think thats a good thing whether its some relaxation hes an speedier the food and Drug Administration whether it is this regulations that are being rolled back on practicing tele medicines or not as many people have to go to Emergency Rooms whether its relaxing of occupational license or laws medical licensing so doctors can practice across state lines i think these are things that make our house that these regulations that were in place make our Health System less flexible and able to deal with Something Like this and that some of these temporary rollbacks need to be made permanent so that we can have a greater Market Forces of health care not meanwhile other policies going the exact opposite direction President Trump is right now looking at signing an executive order to cease all immigration for 60 days where you know almost a 3rd of physicians in the United States are horrible warm and they are much smarter policy would be issue a lot more visas to any foreign born doctors or Health Care Workers and waive our licensing laws so that their foreign credentials can allow them to practice things like this that and introduce markets into the sector where we need it most will reduce governments role expand markets i think would make us all a lot better off you know one i think the in the in the immigration man was very poorly thought out i mean particularly good to what now 3 different versions that have come out since then again very very murky and it i dont think it is lastly. Your ship i have to say the truth and its true. You know you weve already mentioned 2002009 now were here what are the structural inefficiencies that we have to deal with because when you just think about i mean we all remember 20082009 that was a pretty horrific experience it was something weve never seen before and now were seeing a repeat in a different way and all of the job gains have been lost since 2009 and gone now its that thats hard to conceive ok and i see one of the things i favor very disturbing is that you know theres this glorification of the stock markets and the indices and all that i mean i think it was 2 weeks ago when they had 20000000 unemployed and then but look how beautiful those markets are there is some weird disconnect there i mean particularly when people are looking at their own lives and theyre most of our not participating in any of these markets stock markets at all and you see a you see Corporate Media you know that glorified president jumpers and that was his you know signature thing look at the markets well he cant do that anymore i mean what is the disconnect there because what is the markets have to do with average people anymore go ahead. Really quickly and address your other guests point you know everyone can through regardless of state regardless of subculture region everyone could abide by precisely what the c. D. C. The who the government is stating and completely solve koren teen and you wonder if there will be a quote unquote 2nd phase of this illness out in the fall or winter practically being promised by the folks that are put in charge here the language that theyre using really further. Raise question marks over is this thing actually beatable is it in fact prescribe in certain senses to address your points. You know agree for the most part there are over 5000 federally insured banks and savings associations in the United States yet the 5 largest banks matter most obviously in terms of both the fed and treasuries policies as well as and how skyrocketing systemic risks are concerned and viewed theres vastly higher leverage now certainly than in 2008 and yet the government has tactically shut down the economy seemingly because of a very aggressive newly concocted flu virus citi group j. P. Morgan Morgan Stanley b. Of a Goldman Sachs per the comptroller of the currency i want you to know this 8 years and 2019 each of these 5 mega banks held something alike at least 30 trillion of notional derivatives each representing 83 percent of all banking derivatives this is a fiscal powder keg i mean the owning powers behind these banks and thats essentially National Central banks are pulling the plug now performing a controlled demolition if you will of unsalvageable debt and it fizzes and other structures in this wider Economic System the fed already pumped over 9 trillion into this broken repo market since september 17th i think of 2009 big banks will get another 4 and a half trillion in bailouts due to this shutdowns of facts means main street. Meanwhile well get a farcical fraction of this the same as 12 years ago as far as patterns are concerned i. E. A massive further wealth transfer taking place to a small elite in route to collapsing the system to erect a new post debt jubilee written and rewritten and wire meant with an entirely new Monetary System but that that is not politically viable ok i mean that is completely divorced of the life of everyday people and i see a little bit who want to politic and go to let me go to bed go ahead were rapidly running out of time go ahead ben. Well peter then ill make this wrap but theres a. Simpler explanation for the phenomenon that youre pointing out of stock market and labor market looking different and thats the stock markets forward looking at who thinking about what the future stream of income is going to be from all of this business the current labor market the jobs havent disappeared people have just been told youre not allowed to do that thats where the unemployment is so as soon as the government starts saying youre not allowed to do them a lot of these jobs reappear not all like i said were not in a be going back to january but a lot of them reappear and thats why stock market looks better than labor market in response to shut down. But well wait and what in the months and look at him going on stay with been here we have a guy going to another minute here what are the Lessons Learned i know thats a big question for a small amount of time but i mean what when we when we learned so far in approaching this recovery go ahead ben well i dont know if politicians have learned a heck of a lot but they know that were starting to get really upset with the force shutdown and the lack of a normal everyday american and your mom and retailers to go out and earn a living hopefully they will learn that if they freak people out that the normal businesses will find their own Creative Solutions to go back to business and serve each other in this new environment i certainly hope so amen gentlemen thats all the time we have i want to thank my guests and let me end in los angeles and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r. T. C. Unix time remember asta. You know at this point that same day and. With nothing on that i desire to know. How much older the. Local just to. Use them will push. You put its not just on thoughts. So there is stuff. This is a story about what happens austria stray bullets kills a young girl in the streets. What happens to her family and daughters in florida alone my other daughter is buried in a cemetery it meaning this is with your head what happens to the community the public was screaming for a scapegoat the Police Needed a scapegoat so why not choose a 19 year old black kid with a criminal record who better to pen this than him and what happens in court. Shocked shocked as far as society we feel. We dont know children just for. The end of this trial unfortunately you. Will still love no children. One on one with Economic Advisor to President Trump stephen war on this edition of politics. Well go to politics get on larry king trucker economic adviser Stephen Moore says the time to start reopening the United States for business is now he recently shared a lot of controversy when he compared social distancing protesters to civil rights activists rosa parks will find out what he meant by that as he joins me for an end of the one on one in addition to advising the president mr moore is a member of the White House Panel on reopening America Stephen thanks