Transcripts For RT Going Underground 20240713

A moral bankruptcy of capitalism we talked to the president of the u. K. Faculty of Public Health use that phrase to characterize the response to a previous epidemic as the tory government stands accused even by a tory media of lethal incompetence this information and lies and will coronavirus destroy Sleepy Joe Biden as john says of beating donald trump while the antibodies stand as democrats establishment threatens to risk their lives rather than tomorrows wisconsin primary we trace how todays politics is shaped from beyond the biosphere and how novembers election could be determined by an ancient american see a little more coming up in todays going underground but 1st after the u. S. A medically supported by the Russian Military slammed Boris Johnsons response to the corona virus pandemic britain faces the prospect of millions now infected because the Prime Ministers aborted herd immunity policy for more lets go straight to the former president of the u. K. Faculty of Public Health Professor John asked. John who joins me now via skype from denton the Yorkshire Dales john thanks so much for coming on so from professionals of use the lack of ventilators to contrast other countries responses to coronavirus this week were supposed to get 30 new ventilators manufactured with much trumpeting by miss sadies and mclaren and will they make a big difference to what were facing here in britain im afraid they look theyre desperate shortage of ventilators has to be considered alongside the failure to test the shortage of p. C. R. Machines and i understand slopes the personal protective equipment and i also understand that theres now an emerging issue about oxygen supplies for ventilating people even if we had the ventilator so. This all goes back to the failure to get a grip on this emergency right at the beginning when it became apparent that something was happening very serious at the end of january beginning of february when the Prime Minister failed to convene and share kerber of the Emergency Committee for governments because what should have happened at that point was to take stock to get the right people around the table not just a narrow segment of science and to look and say what was likely to be coming down the track if they dont or they would have put systematic testing in place they would have ordered all the stuff that were not short of and they would have realised that in order to take the public with you our list journey into the under. This written real restrictions on freedom in a liberal democracy that they would have to be open and transparent and all these things they failed to do so were in a really bad place as the numbers of deaths are now climbing very stately and will continue to do so over the next few weeks well you say all that. Morris johnsons office is briefing that the reason maybe we didnt get the information was that china was giving us disinfo mation that china has been their big factor here and will face a reckoning they could be considered a pariah state this is nothing about your ventilator numbers and lack of oxygen today this is the fault of beijing seems to be whats coming out of downing street i think its very sad that we reached a situation where the failures of our own governments are being just ignored and not learnt from the lessons learnt from and rather hitting out in all directions and i think at the very beginning of this it seems as though the chinese layer have been slow to recall what was going on the numbers initially from december lids january may not have been reliable but law recently and particularly since the World Health Organization became involved with china the charities have been demonstrating really quite extraordinary leadership theyve been sharing our line globally all their treatment protocols all their Lessons Learned if only we would wake up and listen to whats been going on elsewhere and copy best practice thats the way theyve been behaving here rather depending on the dearest rather than seeing what works in other parts of the world im guessing on and during yes and following the advice of the director general of the w. H. O. To test test test and then act on the testing on social media certainly weve seen pictures of chinese medics dressed in their personal protective equipment what do you make of warnings of disciplinary action now being given to National Health Service Staff if they dare to talk to the media about their lack of equipment is there any clinical reason for the British Government or n. H. S. England to be giving such warnings the problem we interface is that the failure to be open and transparent. And test and share the data with the public coupled with a really cold communication strategy means that theres a failure of trust the breakdown of trust between the public and the governments ironically what were going to finish up with is law repressive and possibly totalitarian measures from a government that really sees itself as a libertarian government as a result of not taking people are naturally in agreement to get a partnership but wait a minute you have a senior position in Public Health in this country is there really no clinical reason why the authorities here should be threatening doctors and nurses were talking to journalists its been a great tradition in this country going back to the origins of the National Health service that doctors and other critical stuff could speak out in public if they were concerned about matters that affected their patients and the public so its very worrying to see this these traffic trends in recent days where weve heard various stories of critical stuff being disciplined for speaking out about the shortage of personal protective equipment even the tory media in this country is now asking questions of their or government the government they supported do you think its lies or do you think its incompetence for instance when one of johnsons ministers robert general said. We dont have the religion to send the right chemicals to test people and then the Chemical Industries association denied claims that there were shortages in is there johnson government lying or are they just incompetent i think its very Interesting Development that the newspapers that normally are firm supporters of the conservative party are now beginning to criticize the government this is a Public Health emergency this is not a party political. But what weve got is a government this has laid terrible mistakes and is now covering up those mistakes by yes lying or at least being economical with the truth and restricting the history i mean this whole story of herd immunity totally preposterous notion that seem to be conjured up out of thin air even if that meant many more deaths would occur that if we were taking traditional Public Health measures of testing isolating quarantining tracing and really putting a lid on it as the government finds it hard to say those very simple words sorry we got it wrong we need to learn now from our experience and get it right as we go forward into this most acute part of this crisis all doctors and nurses seem to be defying the authorities here telling them to not talk to the public theyre showing pictures of their much poorer protective equipment contrasted with that found in china what about a hospital cleaners what cafeteria workers there was a cap of 15 percent on testing i understand thats the only being lifted on all spittal stuff how important will it be to test what was recently called low skilled workers by the home secretary pretty patellar its very important bio security and the protection against this virus is certainly a stroke as its weakest link cleaners are fundamental to bio security in a clinical environments im sorry to say that in this class written society of the United Kingdom we tend to think the only important people are those top of the trade the doctors and the nurses and the cleaners and the courses and these are the stuff you know dont really matter very much but they are. Absolutely central to getting on top of this how significant then is the Public Private partnership dimension to this Health Service pursued by the tony blair the gordon brown government the major government may government cameron how as significant because Simon Stevens of course the boss of n. H. S. England used to be a boss of the us Health Company United Health known for scandals Patrick Vallance Senior Adviser here used to work at g s k another scandal that Multinational Company Pharmaceutical Company well many of us have been worried about this sort of progressive privatization of the National Health service. From the beginning my own view is that it has a role at the margins but not much more than us and we see how difficult it is to caroll to organize so lobel our ace every think thats needed when so much of this is lower provided by private companies who will only do things you know really if its written into the contracts and theyre being paid for it if you take Public Health itself local Public Health teams no longer have their own community Public Health nurses who you could use to deploy it outbreak like this in an epidemic to do the concept tracing i think when this is all over that one of the things that needs to come out of this is a fundamental reappraisal of the role of the private sector in the National Health service but do you think ahead of any future public independent inquiry regardless of what Judges Church has a do you think people in whitehall in the Civil Service let alone in Government Departments are already shredding documents about coronavirus actually from my time when i was a regional director of Public Health and we had the b. S. E. Scandal. You know the police. Were crawling all over white all over richmond ouse trying to find out what had happened in meetings whod said watts there were certain very scared officials because of the way in which a lot of the decisions have been taken you know thats 20 years ago now and so much lorries on computers and hard disks but when this is over. Really i think before then the police need to be securing the evidence for what will inevitably become a very serious a low running inquiry its a who got it wrong and what shouldnt be happening at after this is that the guilty and the negligent should be rewarded for their guilt and negligence with knighthoods and dame ships and all rest of the regalia which is how the british tend city with these matters and just finally the fragmentation right now today do you think there will be people who die because of coronavirus and you can trace their deaths to the fragmentation of the n. H. S. Not envisioned at all arguably by the architect one of the architects and arent van well very certain that there are already deaths that were avoidable not least among the 3 or 4 doctors that have so far died because they didnt have adequate personal protective equipment im very sadly were going to see much floor of the us as this crisis unravels i should just also ask for those watching who have private Health Insurance in britain already the insurers are rewriting policies to exclude coronavirus do you think there might be calls to nationalize the Health Insurers the private Health Insurers subsidised by the government enjoys like bupa after this crisis is over well you know bloopers always been an anachronism when you look at a charity then you have to ask some basic questions like. Who is better to see if its run as a charity and over the years that paid a small proportion of medical consultants who made any notice to learn to let me out so for the super arrangements and the other privates private Hospital Systems which masquerade as charities i think in the 2nd well we brought together the private hospitals the voluntary hospitals and the poor spittles im crafted into the National Health service weve hardly see yet. Thats likely to happen of deaths in care homes in this country because its largely private its all over the place where this is all over we need a National Care service as well as a National Health service Reza John Ashton thank you very much we always invite the head of on the show to after the break we talk to professor Lewis Dartnell who is always warned that a pandemic was a more immediate threat to the human species than Climate Change about how shakes out Global Political history all of them are going up about who are going on the ground. Below him on. Record. And youre likely to be. The one to laugh with the same go to the last night as you had done. More. But the. Thing. I knew of those 2 morons who were the little known where am i to dismiss their innate truth or not. To higher commodity tied to use in to do. Than ever project. To me when i was immature has done very well classroom. Welcome back well while successive major nation governments failed to prepare us for a viral pandemic one scholar always claimed a virus could be the biggest threat to the human species u. K. Professor Lewis Dartnell though i caught up with us guy his new book origins how the earth shaped Human History traces the way ancient geology may have helped determine that it is Boris Johnson and donald trump who make todays life or death decisions about coronavirus i started by asking him how he always understood the threat to humanity posed by pandemics yes so might my last book the knowledge is a thought experiment its all about how you could go about we building everything from scratch if theres been some kind of reset button thats being pushed how do you make and do all the things that we just take for granted and our modern everyday lives and they can seat as a premise up thought experiment i magine some kind of hypothetical apocalypse some kind of Global Pandemic or an asteroid strike or Something Like that but the end of the day the knowledge as a book isnt about the apocalypse is not about the end of the world its about our will and how we got here and how we built it and how all civilization runs behind the scenes to provide everything that we take for granted in our lives and i think the. Reason this is a person at the moment is the things were taking for granted are starting to show a little bit of a crack of a wrinkle and people going to the supermarkets are finding shelves or running bear so i think were all starting to ask ourselves where does the stuff come from where is it may. How is it put together what is the infrastructure and the supply chains that are normally completely invisible how do they actually work and so thats what i explore in the knowledge were going back to today in your new book origins we have of course an official opposition im not sure of Jeremy Corbyn when the criticize the government over the response of the pandemic realizes your new book says that without 320000000 year old coalfields germy corbins party might not even exist youre going to have to explain the what i have been looking at with this new book is all the ways that the planet itself that we live on different features of the earth have had a guiding influence and deep and profound effect on our human story so everything from what drove our evolution as incredibly intelligent apes in east africa through thousands of years of the history of the rise and fall of different civilizations and empires and then right up as you say right up to the modern world of Current Affairs and the headlines you read we dont use paper over breakfast or in politics and how People Choose to vote there is a very clear planetree fingerprints in political maps i give an example of this in the United States and how you can trace out the outline of a ancient sea floor and where people are voting for either democrats or republicans in the u. S. And theres another very very clear. That discernible signal of geology of the rocks beneath our feet in british politics as well and if you look at the political map where people have voted for the labor party in the most recent election and looking back over the decades the labor votes tend to correlate very very strongly with the rocks and its your feet that are 330000000 years old on and on the face of it this makes no sense i think people arent geologist theyre not digging in their back garden and go a are the rock beneath my back garden 50 any and all that means are going to vote for the tories rather than the labor i want to be lefty and ive got to be conservative on what has happened is no direct effect of what has happened is theres been a long chain of cause and effect with one thing leading to the next reaching back through tens of millions of is of our planets history and then the recent countries in decades of Human History and culture and social or chile and politics and for this particular pattern for the labor vote rocks for the 350000000 years old well a town during a chapter of us history called the company for us this is when all the coal fields were laid down something broke in the recycling system on planet earth 300000000 years ago and trees grew vigorously and fell over and die but refused to rot for millions of years trees refused to rot and built up a huge that seems of what affectively apply used forest of life sunshine that we here in britain realize the beginning of the Industrial Revolution we can dig up those underground forests threw them into our furnace is and power us into more than a. Industrialization and the final step and a chain of cause and effect is that the labor Political Party grew out of the trade unions of course and most notably the coal miners trade unions as the final political layer laid on top of all these deeper structure of geology and planetary causes and arguably of the miners strike was one of the big flashpoints against the liberalism in the eightys. The civil rights struggle in the usa you talk about you over say youd expect a rosa parks to refuse getting up in the bus in Montgomery Alabama because of where she was 75000000 year old rocks if you look at the analogous situation in the United States and theres a very distinctive crescent and arc of democratic votes in counties reaching right across the Southern States cutting what across the sea of red of otherwise republican areas of the of the Southern States of the u. S. And that matches very very closely with 75000000 all blacks as you say rocks laid down in the cretaceous chapter of earths history and in that period of our past sea levels are much much higher and the ocean laptop run through the middle of the center of north america and so rocks laid down at that period were thick sediments of sea floor mud that have been buried and re exposed so that today those cretaceous rocks along this particular are and as realized in the early eightys hundreds of those cretaceous rocks when they give you when they break down into soil give you a very very rich fertile soil programmer in cash crops like cotton and unfortunately that period of history growing cotton around the colonies meant slave labor people were thrown into chains taken from africa forced to work on plantations in and in the colonies of the americas and even today off of the hundreds of years of history and the civil war mancipation from slavery and the Civil Rights Movement the greatest density of black africanamericans still they have on lap band of cretaceous and. Drops if you look at the map that i show you in the book in origins and the city of montgomery which is where rosa parks refused to give up her seat to a white gentleman on the bus 1055 but city is smack right in the middle of this band of pretentious a truck theres again that none chain of cause and effect from whole a texan culture and social a genie back through to geology and resources and the earths past climate that is deep explanations steve would be earth underlying everything we read about in history and these correlations with plate tectonics if theyre there for civil rights and for different struggles of workers around the world theyre also there for how we came to exist as a species i mean its not just rivers where rivers cross you talk about something far deeper literally in the earths core yes so plate tectonics and specifically the ripping open of the skin of the earth the cracking open of earths crust or the great east african rifai it was that tectonic landscape and climate fluctuations were living there over the last 45000000 years that drove our evolution from harry tree swinging ape like creatures into hairless naked like people upright homan in human like species and specifically it was that chaotic fluctuating environment in the rift valley beast africa they drive our evolution to be so exquisitely intelligent and when there was a human migration or hominid migration from east africa given of course right now were in the midst of a Global Pandemic we still dont know today. Why for instance the previous migrations in Eastern Africa disappeared as they went into the middle east we dont know today what wiped out the neanderthal species we dont know today why is it we dont know i mean there are all these theories of competition with homo sapiens could it have been pandemics there right when we encountered as we migrated in dispersed around the world we encountered our sibling species when crack encountered any out of tolles we encountered other hominid species around the world and we know now that we bred with them or is not entirely clear yes is why the and told then died out why did hemans why did homo sapien and why did we prevail where is neanderthals fell into extinction and whats likely to be the case is that we simply outcompete japan we were more intelligent more culturally capable had better Language Skills but a tool use the neanderthals at least then the theory is not that its a its a pandemic im just going to ask you weve started by dogging about the fact that the British Labor but he could possibly have been influenced by the geology of this country 320000000 years ago you also in the book talk about choke points in maritime routes as important today as they were so many years ago when we get back to normal again if there isnt a step change also do you think that geopolitics will continue to be descended and influenced by what happened hundreds of millions of years ago obviously tony blair was a labor leader it was a war in iraq iraq is where its a concentration of oil produced by geology yeah absolutely so so for hundreds of years of our history its not just been a choker fee of a lot of importance of where rivers flow or where mountain ranges or people moving its also been the children of the scenes and. Chokepoints and straits that constrain where ships can sail it makes them vulnerable during the straits and at the moment one of the most geopolitically critical spots on the planet is the straits right in the mouth of the arabian gulf or the persian gulf where a huge amount of oil flows inside oil tankers and the geopolitical concern in recent years has been that a state like iran might choose to block that strait that they could declare they put mines in that strait annex no longer safe oil tankers to go down and that would have an Enormous Economic and political fallout and once we start winning squashing down on that point line of crude oil which is the lifeblood for how our world works today president s got no thank you and keep. Professor Lewis Dartnell speaking to be there and his book origins out the other shaped Human History is out now thats it for the show well be back on wednesday for the finale of this season of going underground when we speak to legendary filmmaker john pilger about global injustices being hit on the Mainstream Media coronavirus coverage until then wash your hands and join the on the ground on you tube twitter sound that in its progress. Do you believe in miracles would seem democrats to you after the joe biden surge on super tuesday for them the fear of the Bernie Sanders candidate see me now be contained however this is far from over taking on trump no we seek out. People who lived in towns to which excess has no restricted are allowed to revisit a few times each year 51 is given a dosey meter to show how much radiation they are exposed to while inside the zone