In the Foreign Policy blog im joined by my guest brian becker in washington hes the director of the answer coalition as well as host of loud and clear a daily news show on radio sputnik in minneapolis we have tony was our oh he is director of big tent republicans pac and in dayton we cross lee hes a syndicated cartoonist and Opinion Column this are democrats liberals in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate brian let me go to you 1st in the swamp you know watching this ridiculous impeachment hoax being played out which almost no one is watching here were all told about the differences you know that separate the republicans and the democrats conservatives and its very very tribal the media makes a ton of money off of well i so i would suppose i would hope for them because not many people are watching it not many people are interested in it but theres theres as he. Huge huge failure in the media and the Political Class talking about what is really bipartisan and foreign wars and intervention is the bipartisan issue they keeps it together its like the glue that keeps the establishment together and i dont care if its the republicans or the democrats how do you react go ahead. Well i agree of course i mean the greatest single recent example of this in addition to the impeachment trial would be the house of representatives passing the National Defense authorization act and a they allocated authorized 700 and 38000000000. 00 to the military and to its commander in chief that would be donald trump at the moment that they were impeaching donald trump and that number that 738000000000. 00 was more than trump asked for and it was more than the pentagon asked for and it also not only basically violated the outer space treaty of 1967 by creating a space force and declaring that yes the democrats too would insist that outer space the heavens be the next war fighting domain i mean this is an indicator that even though theyre squabbling theyre fighting theyre fighting over the you know the great prize of being the leader of the state that allocates a trillion dollars of contracts every year when it comes to the empire when it comes to the military industrial d complex when it comes to the surveillance state and the socalled Intelligence Community which is not a community its a bunch of spy agencies theres a complete consensus here in washington we used to think of the neo conservatives as part of the george w. Bush legacy not anymore its the republicans and the democrats it is the consensus position you know tony i mentioned in my introduction 2016 and i remember very clearly and i think even brian was on a program that we discussed this donald trump came out and really kind of shook up the works by questioning Foreign Policy orthodoxies me why are we doing this why are we spending so much money on it when we get for it ok now i have to say as a conservative im not a member of the Republican Party but as a conservative i have i am disappointed because i wanted to see more i wanted to see the war in afghanistan come to an end and we need to get out of iraq were not wanted there anymore and you have the majority of some polling that the majority of veterans. It wasnt worth it now i know that the deep state the permanent state the permanent bureaucracy is constantly pushing back against the president but at the same time he is the commander in chief and i think theres a part of the electorate there that kind of feels the way i do is that we wanted more from this president when it came to Foreign Policy issues go ahead tony. Yeah i thought it was very interesting in 2016 when the president at that time candidate trump went after jeb bush extremely hard attacked you know george w. Bush and really you know had a huge support among republican primary voters and it really proved that you know even the Republican Base was just completely sick of these wars and if thats the Republican Base that will really tell you something about you know the middle and the left so i think weve really turned a corner as far as getting out of afghanistan i mean obviously you know barack obama in 20082012 campaign heavily on you know completely getting out of the middle east as much as possible you know im not im not a general or commander or anything so i cant say you know how realistic it is to really get out 100 percent after you know what Lindsey Grahams and john mccains of you know really done after so many decades in middle east but i do think you know dont you think tony that you know since the afghan papers have been revealed would you believe any of those generals because they all lied they all lied to the commander in chief they all lied to the media and they all lied to themselves ok and hardly got any kind of coverage by goodness ted let me go to you and dayton here but this shows again you know when we went looking at these opposing forces as we reported by media it actually theres a real consensus in the political elite to keep this all going no of course its quite lucrative for the arms edition we all know that and i think one of the things that i find really bothersome to kind of go back to something that tony had to say a lot of people say oh america would be retreating from the world i would counter by saying we have to start reimagining the way the world really is go ahead. Well the european colonial powers went through this process or world war 2 when independence struggles kicked them out of places it like africa and asia and at the time countries like you know even holland which we forget was once a massive empire but countries like france and england and so on how to reckon with the fact that they were no longer going to be empires and there was a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth at the time and guess what theyre all fine now theyre able to dedicate resources to things Like National health care that americans cant apparently afford because were spending so much of our of our tax dollars on war 54 percent of all federal spending goes either to current wars or to debt service on old wars and so it is a you know were thats where our money is going it is a its ridiculous to say that we cant get out as a colleague cartoonist of mine once said how would we get out of places like iraq we would go to the airport we would take planes we wouldnt eat that would be it. And so simple that i may go back to brian and a more serious note here brian i think that you know all of his here on this program agree that the sentiment to get these senseless wars echoing donald trump in 2016 why why doesnt it filter up what where where is the bottle neck what what what what what happens from the grassroots until you get into these think tanks that their entire existence is based on starting another war or go to war with iran i mean where is the bottle neck where does it flip go ahead brian. Theres a theres a myth about american governance which is that its a democracy that it is the rule of the people and that the elected representatives have constituents and their constituents are the people who elected them yes there are elections every 2 and 4 years in the United States but its quite clear by any. Assessment or analysis of how the congress the house or the senate function that the real constituents of these elected officials who are constantly engaged in fund raising nonstop 247 every week every month of the year that their real constituents are wall street bankers they are the corporations those banks and those corporations are completely integrated into defense spending which is a massive form of government subsidy or welfare for the corporate establishment and so none of them dare really break ranks when they dare to break ranks occasionally and its very rare they are then decimated look at tulsa gabbert i mean shes a military war veteran shes been a member of the house for you know for 4 terms shes been completely demonized as a russian asset by Hillary Clinton but thats basically recognized around the political establishment here in washington and why because she said its not a good idea to keep sending American Military personnel into endless wars that for which there is no end and for which there is no obvious goal and theres no definition of what victory even means so tell us again what a war veteran a military veteran comes up and says this and shes 100 percent demonized every Congress Member understands the rules of the game if they have an antiwar sentiment or if they listen to their antiwar constituents and they are the majority peter its not a big minority the majority of americans are sick and tired of endless wars but if the if the elected representatives listen to those people build theyll have their back turned by their real constituents who are their donors and funders in Corporate America you know to tony how is it playing out for 2020 because you know trump says a lot of things i mean a lot of things here but it is easy to be very very incoherent because that you know the whole syrian withdrawal thing and i and i did a few programs. And i was so excited because i finally and this promise is being made and then in a matter of days and weeks its all pushed back in a different direction and i found that to be a defeat because that could have been a demonstration effect start there and then finish the job in the middle east the middle east is a strategic backwater there is no reason for such a heavy american presence there whatsoever and the world is awash with or oil ok theres no reason to be there but that doesnt move the needle with the military does it go ahead tony. Right i mean i remember like i said barack obama was president for 8 years were heavily invested with the kurds in afghanistan but i think we are moving in the right direction i mean if Lindsey Graham or just bush won this election in 2016 wed be in a totally different place lord knows how much middle east intervention we have right now and i think that you know entering this new decade this is a completely different perspective the American People have for the 1st time and certainly in my lifetime and i think its not going to be as fast as any of it sounds like all of us are in quite a bit of agreement wanted to be but it is happening and i think that thats definitely a good thing because that number 54 percent as someone like me who identifies as a fiscal conservative fiscal conservative and argue that we should spend 54 percent of our money on yeah its ridiculous you know ill give the last 30 seconds the end date here i want to talk about how the republicans have become the new neo cons and let you start knology finish and when we come back go ahead. Well sure i mean just to follow up a little bit also i mean about this president s instincts clearly hes skeptical and remain skeptical of inch and she is and we saw that with the crisis with iran when he brought it in for a soft language landing after it really looked like we were at the precipice of war and that was very interesting i think to see from a republican president ok im going to jump in here gentlemen were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on the Foreign Policy block stay with r. T. Is your media a reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe from. Isolation or community. Are you going the right way or are you being lead somewhere. Direct. What is true what is faith. In a world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Or a made in the shallowness. Join me every thursday on the alex simon show and ill be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business im show business ill see you then. Welcome back to crossfire where all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing the Foreign Policy blob. Ok ted let me go back to you in dayton i mean one of the interesting things during the during the campaign 420161 of the very interesting phenomenon happened in you could see it through the wall street journal the Washington PostNew York Times etc. You saw many a well known renowned and i would say disgraced neo cons. Entering the democratic ranks with open and open them brace the number of people that supported Hillary Clinton for example former acting cia director morello a really good example right there and i think that thats one of the things thats really interesting thats come in with her so you have a very strong neo con presence in the Democratic Party and the Republican Party and you actually have this kind of schizophrenia reaction to Foreign Policy if trump is for it you have to be against it even if its in the National Interest i mean everything starts getting twisted around where you just have to be against the guy no matter what which is absolutely absolutely childish and at the end of the day very destructive go ahead ted. Well yeah i mean you know anybody who doubts that theres a Foreign Policy consensus between the 2 major parties only has to consider that wide variety of opinion on domestic matters whether its identity politics or for human rights or at the economy taxes and so on theres so many variations of opinion but even within the Democratic Party you know for example when general salome was assassinated by an american drone Elizabeth Warren of all people who selfstyled progressive said that she was happy he was gone and in kind of a didnt didnt really take trump to task for killing him as much as just failing to get congressional approval under the war powers act there was just a Elizabeth Warren who just came out her list of Foreign Policy advisers and bear in mind she really she and Bernie Sanders are the left of mainstream american political the 2 party system Elizabeth Warrens list of a Foreign Policy advisers though not really neo cons is all prowar and interventionist there theyve been fed in from these conservative democratic think tanks in washington like the center for American Progress so you know there will never be anyone at the table in a war and it ministration who will say hey lets not intervene yet little bit brian and but thats the same thing with trump i mean this whole thing with john bolton floating around i guess that was on the whiteboard just waiting to blow up and it will. Go in the wind like all these other nonsensical things here but i mean he is really the kind of the epitome of it i mean he would have worked fine in a little Clinton Administration donald it didnt matter because he had his own agenda and it was trumps fault to bring him into the fold in the 1st place i remember when he announced it i mean you know you thought you could youve heard everything and then you just because he appeared on Tucker Carlson a few times and he becomes actual security advisor and trump pays heavily for that ok i mean this is an h. R. Problem here i mean im not. I agree with everything wrong with donald trump does with Foreign Policy but when he gets it right he gets it right and you get support for it ok thats just a common sense of weighing of dealing with politics every since 2016 all common sense has gone out the window go ahead brian. Well you know lets look at the killing of qassam solo money the iranian general who was coming to Baghdad Airport to engage in negotiations to deescalate tensions i mean that was trumps the situation john bolton was no longer in the in the administration i agree with you it was a terrible mistake to bring bolton in but for whatever reason impulsivity narcissism the fact that he could be cajoled in his his arm easily twisted whatever he took responsibility for killing a soul money that brought the United States to the brink of a major war perhaps the biggest war ever in the middle east a war more like vietnam than the war in iraq or libya and then donald trump said if when iraq when Iraqs Parliament said the americans must leave donald trump said well were going to keep your your oil revenues which turns out to be in a bank account in the Federal Reserve bank in new york not in baghdad and it shows that washington even donald trump who i agree with you had an instinct to speak at least to that part of the population that is sick and tired of endless war has is also awash with a sort of a colonial mentality towards other people and other people in other regions and that fits in very well with the with the agenda of the military Industrial Complex as if america can area gate to itself the right to be the ruler over all people everywhere thats the recipe for endless war that has to stop you know tony i think what is so mystifying for and i mean if you look at it in a commonsensical way i mean when we look at these Foreign Policy interventions adventures around the world particularly in the last 2 decades when has it ever. Its and if you even asked that question youre laughed out of the room ok i mean its been 75 years since the end of the 2nd world war the soviet union is gone the warsaw pact is gone almost 30 years now why is nato still in existence i mean again you get you get shoved out of the room you get you you get taken off of twitter and your facebook is taken down for asking questions when there isnt any tire academic literature devoted to these things its not as if i came up with it on my own but politically youre dead in the water if you say go ahead tony well i mean i think that you know its its like i said the tide has turned no and it is changing and one of the things the president s done that he also reserves credit for is you know making these other European Countries actually contribute an equal percentage of g. D. P. To nato and you know you can say you know that we dont need it but i mean at least these other countries are starting to participate evenly and i thought why does that help you know why is it why is that we have to think lonely why is that a good thing. Why is that a good thing because we spend 54 percent of our federal budget on the military and even china doesnt spend nearly that and i mean its and they have you know more soldiers than we do so i mean i think it comes down to dollars and cents i mean it comes down to whether youre well so conservative or a socialist we have to spend less money on the military well i cant think well see how this plays out and i want ted to react to this the more that u. S. Forces nato countries spend more money theyre going to turn around and have a reassessment say well there really arent so many threats out there maybe Border Control i mean this is the obvious thing and maybe thats true trumps 5 dimensional chess ok ive heard that argument before ok but none that money nonetheless i mean a little bit of ted right now i mean quid pro quo we were saying it before the we started our program here i mean the trumpet ministration started muscling in on the europeans to to stick with the us went in to destroying the the Iran Nuclear Deal and there was a quid pro quo that we would trump and ministration would race car auto tariffs on european card cars thats called the quid pro quo ok its done all of the time thats called state craft its not you to be a big disagree with that and i think its not right and its not moral but thats the way business is done here and so again you know its very hypocritical for people to say what the Foreign Policy should be or what it should be because its always being operated the same way and its as an agreeing with tony it is being at the at odds with what the average person things go ahead ted. Well i think that you know we tend to look at a lot a lot of us tend to look at the u. S. Foreign policy through through sort of a 19th century lens and what i mean by that is you know we think there are conflicts between countries they are resolved through wars and the winner prevails and takes away money land whatever and thats just not what us Foreign Policy is about now its about disruption of the world the u. S. Isnt trying to beat anyone or win take any territory or win any war is i mean think about invading iraq over oil make is nonsensical because you know you could live in you know you could live in mozambique and buy the same oil at the same price the u. S. Doesnt get the oil at a discount or anything. If anything oil prices go up as a result what the u. S. Is concerned about is emerging regional superpowers theyre worried that a country like iran which would naturally dominate the middle east or india which naturally would dominate south asia or brazil in south America China on the pacific rim that theyre trying to mess with them and troll them and destroy and heart and harass their economy so they cant compete with the u. S. Which has global dominance its the only country in the world that has ever had global dominance of every shipping lane on earth and so the u. S. Is an economic empire that spreads its influence through fear threat of new military disruption but not so much occupation or direct colonialism chinese have an opposite approach the chinese would buy in thats it thats very true brian let me go to you but i mean i can kind of an extension with i would i would disagree about the 19th century because the 1000 century like the napoleonic wars france lost but france was welcome into the community of nations ok i mean they what they did find ways of rebuilding the system here right now and now im agreeing with you going to brian i mean a look. At the the whole sanctions regime the use of the dollar all of these things you know were part and parcel of the american domination but over using them and abusing them youre going to get exactly the opposite effect and thats whats happening with the u. S. Dollar if the dollar is going to be a weapon people going to start moving away from it and that is counter productive to what people in washington want go ahead brian. Indeed but its such a cruel and eric form of warfare and its really just emerged since the 1991 when the when the socialist bloc collapse so no one there was no alternative if you werent integrated into the World Economy dominated by the United States if you were in fact sanctioned you would starve i went to iraq peter over and over again in iraq i mean during the 1990 s. And i went from a hospital room to a hospital room to a hospital room and moms were holding their infants who were literally dying as i spoke to them because they didnt have food or medicine they didnt have clean Drinking Water this was sanctions against a weak and powerless country that had been surrounded and hobbled and Madeline Albright said when asked is it worth it to kill 500000 baby she says thats a tough question but yeah we think the price is worth it sanctions are a killer theyre a silent form of warfare that the powerful impose on the power lesser of the weaker america will never be sanctioned it can go to war in vietnam or iraq or afghanistan or libya commit all kinds of yugoslavia can commit all kinds of crimes its never going to be sanctioned the sanctions are turning the world against the United States because the rest of the world unlike americans who dont know about this they realize that this is a killer policy thats aimed at the most vulnerable the poor the young and the 0 and the older parts of the population its a cruel and barbaric form of of Foreign Policy you cant talk about american soft power and then you saying this is your go question exactly broken for us of that we run out of time here and theres that interesting element of blowback lets not forget that ok many thanks to my guests in washington minneapolis and in dayton and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r. 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