A bit later and todays anniversary of the iraq war but youre also a novelist and putting your novelist hat on how do you characterize near liberal culture and art given the fact that most peoples cultural imagination of a pandemic is really from hollywood and from films that what we have to go on well i mean you know its lost both of the culture today of fetus is dominated by a form of neo liberalism. Ill carriages individualists some of the most group has sort of you know this and be worshiped of 1st celebrities then someone extremely well known on television or a very strong. Actor is almost greeted as a dog and this is really deep deep you know much much worse so that. 30 to 40 you know so this. Proves various people almost not completely from thinking collectively and actually its not tell by the technology either the old internet revolution that has stayed in place encourages individual ism of course it needs i mean the number of people you run into on the buses all the tubes or on pavement so even on their bikes they are see you know off from the noises of the real world if i can put it like that their eyes sealed off from what is going on around them because theyre concentrating on those that are on the singles grange now it neednt be like this but that is what its been and i think in it selmas strange frightening a very way what we are witnessing now is people beginning to think again beyond themselves holy wall is you know produce the old film like contagion what does that do it just creates korea i mean the thing is not to create fear but to create hope not to create better 70 but to encourage people to be to be active and they is now at the station response to this crisis i mean someone wrote from send up all saying that here or in south korea and in japan the the detainees testing testing the entire population regularly and not banning contact with each other except physical contact so there are many many different ways of looking at it from the fact that the chinese themselves. Bought it was not a single new base to be reported anywhere in the country shows that actually in the interest and. Who are great people and have been a factor anyway more about the United States where you dont even have 3 elephants deeply shocking the richest most powerful country in the world got untreated spock relation because of capitalists dock on us and the one candidate and pinning for a. National Health Service in the United States is most likely to be defeated but a Sleepy Joe Biden so its a very weird big ship but i think there are lessons to be i think many people will learn im saying that if this is what you have to do in emergencies why cant you change the way in we treat live well hollywood at least though is how a lot of people describe what happened 17 years ago today when the world woke up to the pictures of the u. S. And u. K. Bombing of baghdad why is it still relevant what happened in 2003 why is it still relevant to all our lives right now because its still going on thats the 1st reason that it was 17 years ago that was iraq. And the. Comments that are being inflicted on this country the brutality the cruelty the u. S. Do not to by. Doing Everything Possible to find she is from sudanese and one day playing with the shia giving them. Which makes your arm the central are in the region and then suddenly blaming other forces for it they did it they did it now theyre touting iran and theyre. Basically using the saudis to control the sunni population. And most importantly whole describing the social infrastructure of the. A country that is will hit disaster goutman. My friend noomi client calls it that its all day here in iraq they just royal in country and if you think about it today well the entire world is thinking about coronavirus i have absolutely no doubt and i can say this with confidence that the Health Service created by the iraqi series of iraqi governments was one of the best of the middle east in order to be much better able to cope with this wasnt the moment in iraq a wall to trigger off another war. In the region. Syria. War there from created Massive Movement of populations soon refugees this war is still going on even a solar cell mate. Is appealing to the United States to withdrew all its troops from the region and is being ignored you talk to many iraqis to do of all political persuasions and they will say it openly we are much better off under us and that is what they say can i just say can i guess a terry if anyone thinks youre an apologist for Saddam Hussein you made me work on a program in the eightys about thatchers support for Saddam Hussein what is it like actually personally given that you came under pressure over that channel of our program because he was an ally of britain and then over the airlift it switches around and for folks we would join for cham for if you remember or serve the architecture of fear and we were it was an ultra Political Program showing those who built these giant danticat monumental statues of a model from so the old speech went like this and dominate. Especially in the. Military areas the parade grounds and we were doing a critical piece of this and we came under a lot of pressure not to do it i remember. When you or someone else researching that program wrapped up the company in basingstoke in an area in england. Which did it for baddies big arms made created them and then shipped the monster but that they said why aint trying this its a friendly. So many of us who are true critical of. When he was actually involved. What then attacked for opposing a iraq war you know we live in a strange world priorities are decided new rules and decided depending on whom the United States a settled on as the enemy of the month and disses become an enemy of the poor need to get its i mean if you think about the iraq war that american soldiers are still that libya has been destroyed that syria is trying to recover from an horrific civil war then afghanistan is still occupied all of these walls of lasted longer than the 1st and 2nd world will pull together and they carry on and what angers me is that citizens in most of the western world Europe North America sleep or very day basically ignore a lot their governments and countries have been doing to the middle east which isnt as state of. The refrig destruction on many many levels politically socially economically culturally in the palestinian. Left with absolutely nothing and no 2 basically supported by the United States israel and egypt receiving huge subsidies to this day for acquiescing in what has been how to make sure they were all it was us and some of us remember all souls of. Monsters are emerging from the aftermath of this war people say attack isis thats the worst group ever and who created it how did it come about al qaeda wasnt present in iraq under saddam was there and it went in with the american troops and the troops of other countries supporting them so its not difficult to to to draw a direct link between the bombing of both berg all those years ago and the state of the middle east today written in the United States of course to this day completely did i agree a thing i says day ash tag ill stop you there more from jerry gulley after this short break. When i was so wrong. I dont roll just dont hold. Any world up to see how does it come down to. An endangered. Trail. Winds are going to find themselves worlds apart wait for the common ground. Up. Thank. You for the super cool portia look at a little try to if there was a News New York at the salon in china to start the new shirts with a cheerful us look you feel and id ministrys for war for your clothes no i dont need to do this movie im for bush but i will push the 1st socalled bush are going to kill us know her she looked anxious and. Yes. Blushes and they. Thought a whole morning the beach he cut the horn asked for it seems your he said its not that its indeed some chance that all the shooting against. Let him. Be uniquely abusive i said included. A lot of it i was quite numb from want to have any skin to show. For in the courtroom review shellys. Given to us but to the south korean is just tell them not to be come forward summed up. The money approachable british mr west imo sure. Welcome back im still here with tariq ali you were speaking at rallies the Largest Global demonstration in history with against the iraq war and last that it will show that protest marches do not stop wars like the one that happened 17 years ago today and what difference was iraq to vietnam because obviously mick jagger and the Rolling Stone sang about your opposition to the vietnam war how is it different i think the main difference is in what happened to the world in the ninetys in my opinion the fact that the soviet union collapsed that china and the way it did created a huge wave of demoralized nation which even amongst people who basically didnt support these governments but saw them as creating as space between 2 power blocs and in that space we can all function and live and be critical of one euro side and we want to do once that counterbalance disappeared the United States but game v. Had a monolithic power in the global scale and people follow them and alternatives that the iraq iraq war demonstration in my opinion was the 1st sign that people were searching for Something Else 1st day by saying dont make war on iraq and these demonstrations were huge in your but if we look back on it over a 1000000 people in london 2000000 people in madrid nearly 3000000 in rome over 200002 new york hundreds of thousands all over and the phony shit cargo every American City in provincial capital state capital. Was infected an affected by a desire to stop the war they were ignored and one reason they were ignored is that they had no following and little support in parliament when you have the republicans and the democrats waging war. And supporting it when you have too many black band Prime Minister in britain the conservative opposition supporting the war then you know you can have 2 or 3000000 people and you know that its a reality of it and been never came out again and those numbers i remember saying at the big demonstration theyre no longer were all trying to fight against the war dont imagine it wont take place or words to that effect and really more obscure with this star bombing where we didnt we couldnt them all satinder but effectively they got away with it but it will be wrong to draw from this the conclusion their protest is useless it may not always be effective but creating a different Public Opinion is extremely important i am not now and nothings being done. And these really occupation has been sanctified by a crime back and terror de facto by the European Union days no chance of the palestinians getting any form of state even the most not only. At the present time nothing happens the world is. That total ghetto completely wrecked by disease the Palestinian Authority has got so used to collaboration with these really that they basically dont know what to do when they oppose whats playing now they participated in creating this situation where the british while it was not a marketplace thats what i say but that doesnt mean we stop arguing that beijing mobilising i mean life would be awful if one just became well the british the labor party his ministers obviously committed us to war in iraq 17 years ago obviously. Protecting israel arguably after the after the Jeremy Corbyn years why do you think that this same labor party as it were is so keen to reinvite people who are associated with the iraq war back even to the party including having care stop a leading figure once tony blairs head of war propaganda Alastair Campbell back in the labor party is this Opposition Party does it understand what youve been saying well i think there are 2 things one has to see about the labor party what is the insurrection on little girl insurrection of the Young Country and me or bill interim our our as fracture. In my opinion and momentum became exclusively true. If not exclusively 80 percent of it through our low there mick in addition to that also doing a lot of political campaigning political education etc so that the strength of traditional live grewsome which is that the only thing we do which is win the election is now back in falls the left was given a chance the left was defeated not even going to ask him. Searching for why the left was. Refusing to accept then it was because labor joined him all the parliamentary moorings to prevent a referendum from being implemented to peer starmer let me just say obviously associated according to the un with the persecution of julian a search from whom and because of whom we know so much more about iraq than we ever did back then how frightened are you for julian assads can i just as the founder of wiki leaks given hes in belmarsh prison and governors of prisons in this country obviously are worried about the spread of coronavirus im extremely worried about truly moon for many many. I mean initially it seemed that they were imposing a regime not refusing on him in that prison which could have led to a no the defense that his order number of doctors said and then the governor of the prison. Brutish rager who none of the judges wanted to try to change because its not needle thats the governors domain which is not good for breast baring befall them is not an offense state to give evidence they have every right to challenge. The governor of the prince who julian is deliberately being mistreated the case is completely manufactured new smells so the un report on torture has made a very powerful intervention saying that the what took place in sweden when he was accused of rape something you always deny and was defending crap and processed and designed to discredit him and lose or we close relatively successful i think many people seem to prove that but the fact is that this accusation against judy. On Security Matters is completely bizarre and everyone else it is the americans know its the only when they can get him back into the states the british and know that this is a political decision it has nothing to do with the law and im going along with it and i hope that some sense prevails when the case goes to the Supreme Court and this concrete because it is quite shocking what has happened to julian i hope years said were to go to mess a many many years ago has learnt a few lessons. From that and i think this is something wait show even Boris Johnson who is being the most of his life we journalists should understand if you agree to. What the americans are asking you to do i mean today its a very. Exposed war crimes tomorrow it could affect other journalists who spose other things which the United States didnt want to expose an american soldier already have said washington is dead any foreign journalists the Us Constitution doesnt apply to them so they can pick anyone out and theyre over to washington to be tried since most governments do their bidding any certainly the torture has been written about people who watch our interviews with meals melt of the un special rapporteur on torture better if one can forgive a media in a Coronavirus Crisis for not covering the sun is not covering the the continued bombing of iraq backed by britain of by the United States in the past few days. There is that just nation being passed through parliament and if its not martial law its military immunity legislation. What do you think about why boris ransom is keen on personal immunity for british soldiers is it somehow emblematic of british intervention 3 mile island to iraq absolutely. Clear you want to stay out late a situation where british soldiers are immune from. Prosecution i mean this is something weve all to gails do many countries where the miller crizal salute to camilla grew shouldnt out these days its a big court against in the United States where many and you wark to be as one to us officers involved in massacres from be it maam on whats charged to cry. It is still done to those who the west regards it as its enemies the International CriminalCourt Functions just as a court for those who are guarded as enemies of the west so its i dont own us a little of what is going on well just finally in the when it comes to colonial legacies kashmir is of course a colonial legacy and the sudan the Indian Government has again put it under total lockdown we had the high commissioner on this show said it was being freed up a little of course it is the center of a Nuclear PossibleNuclear Conflict just tell me what you think about our coronavirus for instance can be used as an excuse to do all sorts of things by different governments but especially what on earth is happening in kashmir sheer is. The highest incidence of grunow iris afflictions anywhere in india. And the recent focus is that large numbers of missionaries are in prison many are in concentration camps not being given medical aid. From some of the reports out all from friends being left to die and the world. Stays silent because the world todays world likes knowing their own body and the shippy because they are of global strategic planning. On many issues so the schmear is being ignored the lock down on me took place many months ago when india abandoned its own constitution and effectively said made respect to be integrated and the rest of india very few protests. Made if you protest but they were pretty due to a very few are countries backed. Me course so the question remains like that as to me and some today very isolated and you know one feels for them and the other thing on this i have to say is that im very glad theres an opposition in indiana resistance on the new citizenship more d. Is implemented and this is quite deep in many provinces but all those people who defend most lows on the citizenship law have remained not all but maybe most of those have remained silent on the question me and the reason they remain silent is because question here is regarded as a security issue because of terrorism immigration which dont play as many years ago and stopped many years ago to by and large saw him dance speak up on that issue mean or as far as bush you mean it is. Terrible silence as both haiti and i mean beacons we dont live in it d. I mean i am of the new friday living there is very noticeable how little solidarity there has to be with us overseas invite the high commissioner for india back on land the israeli ambassador in london tie got a thank you. Thats it for the show will be back on monday as the coronavirus death toll continues to rise too was a theoretical physicist professor brian greene about the cosmic im dreaming that surrounds the only animal in the known universe aware of its own mortality humans until then with yourself isolating or on the front line join the underground by following us on you tube Twitter Facebook instagram and. Trade and investment to become magic spells to conjure economic development. Most people think about trade they think about goods and services being exchanged between countries and the investment chapter of a trade agreement is about something very different but what when investment leads to toxic manufacturing that destroys sacred sites all the environment. That means if local communities that are being poisoned if they object if they do anything that the company feels is interrupting their profits they can be sued now multinationals are taking on the whole nations Philip Morris is trying to use i. S. T. s to stop tour of the white implementing new tobacco regulations aimed at cutting domestic smoking rates a French Company sued egypt because egypt raise its minimum wage democratic choice of a trump Corporate Law joining us as we try to find dont want to. Seem wrong. When old quotes just dont hold. Any new world yet to stamp out these days to come at a point. And in the game equals betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. As a nation from which to us and. I thank you for from. The truck the food for your nature my parents. Never to try. To. Do this because of global was busy going to have to. Have us from the support of the family youre fighting with the full force of us. From the left side of us focus of much business in the south. Its a piece of his its the deadliest single day during the coronavirus pandemic with 620. 00 lives in. Neighboring France Police quits unless theyre provided with better equipped to be protecting them from the far. As the latest college on to hope production amid the pandemic is the Health Crisis but the more jobs at risk. The u. S. Senators are accused of Insider Trading after they sold off the stealth right ahead of the recent