asian time to find themselves on the receiving end of places and globally. those are your headlines this hour you don't home is a place for you if you want to get any more of those stories. it's called. following welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle as the election cycle rages on the media highlights or even invent what they deem to be important even radical what they don't tell you is how the political center is collapsing and why today's campaign is what voters think about the status quo. trancelike in the liberal collapse i'm joined by my guest lead on jones in atlanta she's going to. tony and former state director for bernie sanders in 2016 in washington we have christopher barron he is a conservative strategist as well as president of right turn strategies and in strasburg we cross to john laughlin he's a political scientist and historian as well as lecturer in european history at the university institute of st pius the 10th in pairs are right across cycles in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate let me go to john in strasburg because to give us a little panoramic view right here. i was thinking a couple of days ago looking at the surge or apparent surge or invented surge of pete booted gedge and i kept thinking while. america now has its own version of the menu well mccrone ok a poster child for power for the status quo and almost no one likes them but you can't do anything about it ok that's exactly what we're facing here and as i also said in my introduction you know we're told so much about what this candidate stands for what that candidate stands for but nobody really wants to look at what the voters really want and they want a continuation of 2016 of confronting the elites ok but you won't learn that on c.n.n. or m s n b c go ahead john. why i think the comparison with america is a very good one because. in france. in spite of all the rhetoric that we had in 2016 about the brics it in the rise of trump and so on it shows how strong. i won't call it the political center because i don't think that's quite the right word i would say the political cartel ok strong is a good cocktail remains and determined political cultural is to hang on to power in fact i would almost say that the rhetoric of a sort of a list of bricks through which somebody is willing to shoes use on both sides of the atlantic is almost feeding in to the horror stories that the cartel tells in order to keep itself in power in. tells people of my goal you know we're the only safe pair of hands if you if you let these 2 like crumble or those who brought us into whatever then the entire system will come crashing down so i would almost say that this idea of a some of the center sells the part of the political cartels mechanism for staying in ok i really like the term cartel here don apparently the cartel doesn't know how to flip a coin ok because i think our viewers saw this coin flipping in iowa what in the world was that about him it just backs up exactly what john was saying they're going to do anything anything they stay in power i mean hypocrisy out the window i mean that's not even embarrassed by this now ok and i speak i say this as a conservative because i think what's happening to bernie is shameful and the powers that be are backing it up they're calling someone a front runner based on no evidence and no facts whatsoever and its virtues signaling and you know what all those people that canvas to that ridiculous system they have their hours and hours and hours taking time off from work and then what you do is you turn around and spit in their face sorry for being so blunt but that's exactly what it is go ahead. there may have been and it's obvious listen i'll what an embarrassing mess for democrats however i will say one thing that bernie sanders has is this cartel of people where he has a campaign that was already built unlike any other candidate in the race so i'm not going to say that the party is trying to rig it against him again because even if that is the expectation his people know how to get around it because they are organized army despite that this is a primary and that's what primaries are about the democrats are lucky that we have a wide variety from the left to the right moderate centrist candidate is that each of us can go out and choose as long as we actually participate in this process and not be discouraged by what happened i will however iowa was an eye opener this time for us to make that all of this and that's the focus that i think we did ok but it's not an eye opener it's setting a trend in a precedent ok don't trust the vote don't trust the voters trust us to the people that are reporting it ok i mean i think it's patently obvious that judge is an invention. he's been created to take this role here and you know what with joe you know flailing and you know you have other candidates that are mount reaching them aren't global char is nice but you know there's it's all a marketing strategy but it's not the candidates it's not the parties doing the marketing it's the media framing the narrative and i've and find it so insulting to the democratic party and that's what they did to trump ok they tried to do that and it turned out the party ok ok chris for jumping what do you put your ideas on how to sarve. bridge between what is the difference between c.n.n. and b. c. in the d.n.c. just think about that chris christie for jumping in oh it's a huge difference sure it's great you're going to you have all that you've got you've got it let you know about it i need everyone to the program 1st and then we can jump in it's christopher's turn go ahead christopher. you're got john kerry being caught on the phone in iowa talking about how he's thinking about jumping. into the race because he wants to stop bertie sanders look at the end of the day i think sanders is actually going to win this nomination but he's going to have to fight like hell for it because the democratic establishment and their friends in the corporate media are going to do everything they can to stop him in the same way that they tried to stop donald trump in 2016 what happened in 2016 is trump all the animals in the party out of their cages in the republican party and if bernie is going to succeed he asked to do the same thing he's going to fight for it tooth and nail because they will do everything from inventing characters like boo to judge to bloomberg and his billions to the onslaught of negative opposition research which is coming it is coming to the dump is coming soon for bernie sanders he is going to have to fight tooth and nail the same way that trump did in 2016 and frankly i think it's good for democracy to have a real you know a real debate about the future to have 2 people standing on stage who offer very different views for the future and who actually believe what they're saying i think it's good for democracy and good for our country you know but i think that's a very good point chris or not and i take it on board but i think you can flip the coin and i think the process this is a diligent legitimizing the democratic process i mean i it was a perfect example of that i don't believe this story about this app and all this is a bit too convenient and due to judges campaign connection to the people who were involved with that app i mean that's kind of fishy as well ok john to me it is it's really holding the democratic process in contempt because if they don't get the outcome they want then they get to say it's not legitimate go ahead. well that's obviously what they did with their transfers of one nose 1st on russia and then on ukraine we'll have to see whether bernie sanders wins the nomination to see if he wins in new hampshire for that matter. i'm surprised christopher is optimistic for him maybe he's right but if he is right then america will be the states who are breaking the mold because in europe that's absolutely not what's happening at all again in spite of all the talk about populism and the end of consensus and so on the european picture is very different the european situation is one in which the left the old left the sort of left of bernie sanders in bodies has completely collapsed yet the british labor party has been totally decimated in the latest general election the socialist party in france barely exists anymore it had to sell its headquarters in order to survive financially the social democratic party in germany is extremely weak and although there are some right wing populist parties in europe had some success of the league in italy the freedom party in austria. basically they have also been chased out of office yet by the cartel. right now on this side of the atlantic i'm afraid the cartel is doing extremely well and certainly as far as for example france is concerned american in spite of his unpopularity has a perfectly good chance of winning at the time of the next presidential election in 2022 that's right you know we're down you know one of the things i really like about bernie sanders is he talks about real people he doesn't talk about these newfangled idea this virtuous signaling and all of this i don't i'm just i don't get it ok i'm a political junkie i don't understand most of the white noise particularly on the left ok but i mean when bernie talks he talks about real people and real problems and you know what he's been doing it for a long time right now that you know i you know i'm not someone that was 47 years. zoltan decided to become a democrat you know after you know slogging for financial institutions for years i'm talking about elizabeth warren here i mean but i think the democratic party is really detached from the d.n.c. in the media they like these other you know explaining is things that don't you know maybe there are people that some people that are interested in it but most people who say you know what you know where's the beef you know how my going to make my life better for me that's really the bread and butter of politics bernie is a chef at it he is great at it ok very much like donald trump you know though there obviously is a go ahead well done well you know so i was they overall the democratic party is much more in line with what the people on the ground actually need and however i agree with you bernie sanders has been consistent and talking about the people who are that bottom percentage of americans who simply just need a hand up you talked about the deed legitimizing the process you know i wasn't great but we know from 2016 there's another thing the d d legitimize the american process and that's the electorial college just like iowa it is antiquated it is old and we know that because trump won all the losing the popular vote and so these things that we talk about the democratic party but i think the american political system as a whole probably means that overhaul and what we will see is that it's not a centrist moving left moving why is that most of the people care about their everyday needs making sure they can feed their family good education for their children ok in that regard i think i go to my view on that part of the electoral college no way when did i have a solution chris to read before we go to the why don't we go back to paper and pencil ballots ok i'm sorry i think it seems to work for all the time ok i don't know what's wrong with that recycled paper we don't have to cut down trees 40 seconds before we go to the break. look i think what people i think what people wanted this country is that they are tired of the politics of the elites that did. work for average working class americans that's the appeal of donald trump on the right that's the appeal of bernie sanders on the left and that's why i said i think it's great for democracy to actually have an open and honest discussion about the future instead of the cartel of the center that's only interested in the moneyed interests that it represents that's the system that's broken and that's the system that both donald trump and bernie sanders are an absolute revolt to ok i'm going to jump in here after a short break we'll continue our discussion on the liberal collapse a with our to. lead . and we're going to fulfill the repeated promises of politics to the people come on you know we've all pots you know really. really really really all right. now you want to 1st correct that. you know. for. the. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. i can't show you my face but i'm going to teach you must store. this man was sentenced to death. charged with capital murder even though he didn't have the gun didn't pull the trigger didn't intend to kill anybody comanche living in your past week he said of the 23. that had to. have. confined within 4 gray walls. excusing. to help him to leave dennis room. welcome back across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the liberal collapse. ok let's go back to john in strasburg i have my own pet theory about all of this if there isn't a candidate a democratic candidate that comes into. force after super tuesday we're going to have some kind of brokered convention here and i say assume and i'm really interested in what donald have to say about this but 1st john is that i think the cartel and i'm going to start using that term and i'll always cite you for i think the cartel would prefer to have trump have the democrats lose and have trump reelected because we have seen over the last 3 years or so that they've been able to really crimp him on his foreign policy very tightly ok he's he has no foreign policy real success in my opinion and we still have too many of these deep state creatures even though the finally the bin laden twins are out of the white house finally but it's going to be it's slow going ok because it's so bipartisan so what do you think of that proposition that the cartel would prefer to see the democrats lose than bernie when you go ahead. i understand what you're driving at i suppose i hadn't really ever thought that bernie sanders could win the presidency so in other words i think that it's they'll be bowing to the inevitable trump has kept us guessing hasn't he beat her ever since he was elected we have many of us may have placed hopes in in particular on foreign policy issues and we've been cruelly disappointed but he carries on talking the talk even if he's not walking the walk i suppose i'm afraid i'm probably guilty of letting my hopes carry away carry the day of my analysis when i say that you know one thing hopes are one things that perhaps this endless deep state conspiracy against him will come to an end 2nd it wins a 2nd and that after all after the impeachment vote. on the on tuesday the. there was a bit of a purge wasn't there if you mention the twins were out the bastard to the e.u. was out and so on if manages to win a 2nd term maybe he will feel 'd strong enough to. carry the purge further or at least to implement the foreign policy that he's been talking about he was elected on but i agree it's a tough one because if and if the last 4 years of thought is another thing it is indeed the power by the way i've said this before on cross talk it's not the deep state it's the state it's the state department the congress the pentagon it's the whole apparatus of the state not just the covert operatives in the in the cia and the other intelligence services it's the whole of the state and that's what makes the whole challenge of dissident politicians populist politicians so difficult because even if you're the president of the united states with the separation of powers and all the rest of it and with the general institutional inertia it is incredibly difficult to turn things around and you certainly can't do it in in 4 years yanno even character like mrs thatcher in britain. was in power for more than 11 years and even her successes although considerable were no doubt less considerable and she would have hoped for so there is a terrible. amount of as i say institutional inertia even for politicians who are radical and who are determined to be radical yeah apparently john john brennan still has his security clearance fully. unbelievable unbelievable don let me go get me to give my my pet theory to you i mean it would you think that if bernie were to get the nomination which i think if the popular will even with r n equated the primaries of the popular will answer it would be bernie but the d.n.c. prefer to see him lose and. then when against donald trump in november go ahead. no no i think it is pretty clear across the board or that the goal is to get trump out of office by any means necessary and that includes bernie sanders warnings that i don't think that they're going to undermine the process to that and what i would love to see and i think what with that the democratic party is that just like changing our we need to change some of the processes you know what i want to know now for every single person that is in this primary race who would you pick for vice president today not acting at the convention right now whether they were going to be your v.p. or not because that is the kind of thing ok ok i'll tell you what i think from the center left and right i think i'll tell you what i'll answer your question is a really good one i think there's only one that can be president bernie sanders though i think you'll be denied it by the d.n.c. and the media but all the other ones are all running for vice president ok we'll see looks like booted judges getting the not getting the nod somehow ok that's what it looks like to me it looks very engineered somebody's got a whiteboard in there taken the boxes ok and it's all against your guy ok it's against bernie again let me go to christopher here christopher bernie sanders calls himself a socialist a democratic socialist i mean i don't really know what that means but a lot of people if you look at public opinion polls good is a lot of i know what it is i used to be a university professor ok but i'm looking at how it's being spun in the media ok believe me i've read my share of mark's angles len in the group john smiling at me bret all that stuff ok but christopher. why is doing what is the appeal of socialism as it's in american parlance because a public opinion poll after another shows a lot of people quite interested in what it may have a american accent to it ok go ahead chris. i mean i think it's the it's the not it's the what we don't have now i don't think the majority of americans are are going to vote for socialist policies or actually support socialist policies i think that they're so absolutely upset with the establishment now that they feel that our institutions are no longer responsive to us that they're willing to accept something anything that's different and look by the way in 2016 to back to your point before peter 2016 there were lots of republicans who thought fine nominate trump let him lose in 40 states and then we can swoop back in and say see we told you this was going to be a disaster unfortunately for them but that's not what happened i think there are plenty i think there are plenty of establishment democrats who if bernie wrestles the nomination from him which i expect are going to say they'll be the jeb bush's of the world hillary clinton say i refused to endorse and i'm going to have our own evan mcmullan that i'm going to vote for because they expect bernie to lose their so unbelievably out of touch with where the american people are it is unbelievable to me want to watch what happened there in 2016 ok lead on jumping i mean look i look i want bernie sanders to be the nominee to get a good lead on that support of the program jump in please do. me i mean the reality is and i love it i mean i think it's very creative on the conservative side take the russian talking points from last year from 2016 what was put out on twitter was put out on social media say with v. now this makes them angry this is how we split their party how it's going to bring the center right what happens to bernie what you hear hey hillary's hillary hillary was your nominee from 4 years ago and she's out there trash talking your candidate you shouldn't be upset with me nobody lives you know how he's let me tell you nobody likes attorneys lydon's out there know what i see out of your nominee you know nobody likes bernie yeah ok i mean are you there anything down. well. going to take several think i'll agree hello really needs to go in the forest and say in the forest ok let me go let me go. on here john it's good to reflect upon something that christopher just said here i mean if people know what they don't want now ok and they don't like the status quo that's the whole point here and i agree with them about how people were receptive to socialism which is 3 americans on the program that were for bode for a very very long time in american political discourse ok and but i think that christopher's absolutely right is that the status quo isn't working but there's a perception it's not working for the average person i mean you could look at all these macro economic numbers which is nice and fine but it doesn't necessarily you can say yeah the economy's doing great but you could also say it's not doing great for me though ok and i think that's is what i think the g.o.p. often misses on this is well ok particularly someone like sean hannity that goes you know every night it's a litany of the same thing over and over and over again go ahead john people know what they don't want go ahead joe but the fact is the sociological phenomenon that you're describing which is the disenchantment of a large section of the electorate you didn't say but i think you probably mean the blue collar electorate we used to working class. that disenchantment does not. record in the states or europe translate into votes for the left it translates into votes for the right or parties that are called right wing populist right wing it's those parties and trump is obviously the prime example of this the british conservative party is another one it's those parties that are picking up the disaffected working class or blue collar collar don't know why well but there's another factor you're forgetting in that there is a huge factor so democrats a lot of the left leaning folks in america are in the south and whether we see in tennessee and georgia and mississippi. they're closing voting precincts they are making it more and more difficult for people to register to vote they're purging voters so that number does come out for democrats the problem is there are still conservatives in charge in the states that can suppress 200250000 both at a time making it difficult for those people who are energetic and for obama in 012 they're making it a little bit harder for them to participate and everything else i think you may be wrong in that i think it may energize the rights of voters but also it's showing the suppression of the voters on the land it might be a little it don but if they continue to screw around public i hang on hang on it because we're almost out of but if they continue to screw around with bernie i would say a lot of bernie supporters simply won't vote you cheated twice what's the point the system is broken the system is rigged and a lot of other people going to feel the same way what's the point what's the point if we if we see another iowa ok or something similar to it ok chris we're going to give you a last minute on the program go ahead. i must say republicans spent 30 years trying to find the infamous reagan democrats to their electoral defeat time and time again and i think democrats are going to be on this mysterious hunt for the disaffected blue collar working class vote that they have that have spurned their party and i don't think there's any way that they're getting those people 'd back that's not going to be the future for the democratic party they're not winning back the trump voters from pennsylvania and michigan and wisconsin they're never coming home again it took republicans a long time to figure out that reagan democrats were actually just democrats it's going to take the democratic party a long time to figure out that the trump working class are just republicans well and also the focus on workers who is what i'm really glad that john brought up the working people though it is to define do over time because of technology but families creating families keeping families together the opiate crisis real problems that affect real people ok and you know and i'll get in trouble for saying this not just transgender toilets ok maybe that's there but it's not the high end and i think this is what trump and bernie sanders are doing and i hope to see them face off in november us all the time we have many thanks to my guest in atlanta washington and in stroudsburg and thanks to our viewers for watching us here in our d.c. you next time and remember. 2040 you know bloody revolution 2 to the demonstrations going to be relatively peaceful political protests to be creasing the final. revolution is always spontaneous or is it your goal here pretty meaningless both to do it through the neighborly is that i'm spoiling you to the former ukrainian president recalls the events of 24. those who took part in this today over time doing in dollars to assist ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. the holder doctrine eric holder former attorney general under obama this is the idea that banks are systemically important they can't be prosecuted because this would be a danger to the society as a whole but what's remarkable is that this idea has bled over into other industries now boeing has a major scandal on its hands and it's claiming that it systemic lay important the law doesn't apply to us other agricultural companies are saying now we're systemically important we're above the law now that is leading to bionic kleptocracy this becoming a i think it's a caca stock or c. is the right word it's ruled by the least qualified are now in charge of running the economy and results obviously catastrophic. this is the one business show you can't afford to miss i'm going for a number 4 in washington coming up the u.s. government says it will finally provide evidence of how huawei is a threat to us there.