from the final televised debate of this campaign and needs to and. not the chin fane winners of the popular vote in south days general election is any stranger to bias its elected politicians were banned from speaking directly on the u.k. statement they did b.b.c. and today its desire to see u.k. soldiers face justice for alleged atrocities is in the hands of this man we amend the human rights act to protect personnel will close you know from vexatious cases to 1000 when there's no new evidence but what if there is no new evidence because of alleged systemic british cover ups spanning decades today marks the anniversary of the murder of irish civil rights elicit a path for new can he was gunned down in front of his family by u.k. linked to paramilitaries spat for new consuelo geraldine for newcome who came to the studio with us in vain m.p. john for a new can about why they could be no future inquiry. into the atrocity 31 years ago today geraldine david cameron invited you to downing street to david cameron appear scared when he was talking to you as to why he was denying an inquiry into the murder while i got the impression that. other people were putting a lot of pressure on to david cameron to prevent what needs to come out from coming out i think they tied his hands who's they. the pi's the bull he really running the country perhaps so alan may have voted fish in fame because it was fed up with new liberal austerity what now for investigations do you can't trust cities and what now for the end of the united kingdom joining me now via skype from don dorcas inventing the for the loud rory and more of hooves taking the place of the party's former president gerry adams rory congratulations on winning predictable do you think that certainly mainstream media in britain cannot mention your party's victory without the ira and former b.b.c. journalist john simpson saying it's all about populism nothing to do with the 28 crash and austerity and it's not unexpected what people say but am not this was in political terms it's or at electoral revolution and you an internist to us we were getting there some doors long beach florida sap and the people were sand they were absolutely set up where the governments were sent you know he also said they were set up where it alternating between shooting out and seeing a falls and they wanted to see change of course if you were getting that on the doorstep within it a catastrophic miscalculation by your party not to feel more candidates when it's very easy in retrospect and obviously in relation to said you know that on the doorstep you know you had it on the doorstep but you need you know remain a period of time to a degree had already passed or at that stage the election got told you to a very short period of time in relation to the meeting paper and also we have been in a similar position to a degree before where let's 6 wholesalers and whatever would have had us in trying to 16 are going to say in around 21 percent but still it slowly found for a 4 week period right this was different and it was sustained but you always expect that there could be a slight hearing or asked ok why do you think southern island vote is we're more concerned about shin fein north of the border which of course is being in the fact a coalition with the unionists in forcing what the left in. northern ireland called austerity in fairness i think people realize that we don't have the sort of control the fiscal labors in the north and to a degree you are dealing with the outworking tory unsterile and while in government we made every attempt we term in relation to mitigating the worst aspects of the past so right now i think our support base i think most people will accept you know the thing that she unveiled success means is turning into the new fianna for oil basically i mean it wasn't long ago that you guys said corporation tax rises 17 percent you know manifest assent you know keep it in 12 enough same is very high because we reset keep it a program or half percent you know i mean we like we obviously see that as an absolutely necessary part of maintaining and you know the economy we have and i have to unite but what we have said is and we don't make any bones about it we talked about our 5 percent levy on people ending or $140000.00 we have talked to bring out tax credits for earnings at balder between 800140000 we've talked about now taxing like you have banks here that would have high and am profits have been around 2000000000 i'm now and we are talking about quoting you know tracks in around 175000000 and these are all very sensible options you think given the banking measures in the manifesto it will be impossible to talk to fianna for oil given their association after the crash with anglo irish for instance let alone the i.m.f. and e.u. bailout austerity the affected area i don't think it's impossible to talk to anybody you know i'm dan in no middle c. asians to people bringing their asks and wants to the table and i get to read negotiations you don't necessarily get all that you want but when we're talking about a program for government we would beat a program for a government that we could and that we would be happy wish that would deal. the big ticket issues and we could also sound to our own membership and to the wider elektra template for us if indeed mary lou mcdonald becomes t. sharp who knows out of all these negotiations not sure the you know the financial times he had quoted the u.k. prime minister barth johnson on. to saying why why was nicole murphy like all the rest of them are you going to be able to talk to a british prime minister who makes comments like that and you concerned about anti irish bigotry seeping enough to shin fame success at the election we've been able to deal with that british governments over many years that we've had huge difficulties left yeah we would much prefer to people that make sure that our snide comments are whatever but we can we can deal with whoever so talking to boris johnson shouldn't be a problem i mean he made it a whole mark of his attacks on jeremy coleman to keep calling him a defender of the ira he said what he said kristie believed it would be useful in electoral exams i imagine you know he would have no difficulty in dealing with us but mary lou mcdonald and michelle o'neil in recent times i don't see the change or what have you thought of the fact that around the time of this general election boris johnson has been talking about a bridge from ulster to scotland you probably aware that nicholas sturgeon north of the border here is talking about a new referendum on scottish independence this him fane kind of laugh at that and think it's going to be a celtic bridge between scotland in ulster and i'm not sure on seasonal engineering why cost lives or whatever but it stephanie not an issue that came up under duress and darker trotter are already are i mean the places that we were coming saying yeah but you know what i'm getting at the british taxpayer paying 20000000000 pounds for a bridge between a united ireland and an independence ago and now here i'm glad that you're seeing into the future a united ireland that's their cross of i would say out of darkness are ok but the difference between by. johnson's breaks a deal in teresa mayes was of course a sea border bordered on the irish sea you know think one could say that the ever agca did more for irish unity than sinn fein than anyone develop as we had a foil then the ira because this paves the way for unity we would stay a step we were am simply and were among the 1st people to start talking about special designated status and without doubt the conversation might on the flop and around the border i have i suppose all all that i can say is that there was a certain degree of. agreement between and all the political parties on the site and particularly with the european union in relation to how important ireland was how the border was going to create difficulties for the people who were trying to bring about breakfast you know if the end of oil says when the conditions are right when it comes to irish reunification referendum and that it's all up to westminster and the bars johnson government i know you're going to say 800 years is too long a time do you think she in fame is going to be able to leverage bricks in terms over the united kingdom a force to force a pole under the good friday agreement i don't see it as levering it as leveraging in relation to embrace of negotiations well what i see is that bracks it has probably changed a lot of people's minds across the north and south of ireland probably even some people in britain in relation to their logical sense that we would have also always said in relation to breaking out about irish unity and now what's interesting is talking about it a minute is that there would be some element of sense of the climbing we've caused far as citizens assembly whereby all the stakeholders could maced and could discuss what the united ireland would look like how we would have the police in a position for everybody in us and then beyond that we need to ensure the timing of course this conversation has started the genie is out of the bottle. so it doesn't make sense not to be prepared even vienna foyle are saying that but one of boris johnson just says no in fact under the terms of the good friday agreement it's not satisfied that poland mean if occasion is required i do understand that it's beyond a guest of the british government and the secretary of state in the north but the route the reality is the conversation started we have already started to say pulsars they are showing here both north and south it. wants an interest and people are looking for irish units because this is the anniversary of the u.k. link the killing of the civil rights listed for new can what do you think it will be like controlling the garda and the justice system in the republic if indeed mary lou mcdonald becomes shock and indifferent is anything going to happen to the legacy issues let alone alone what it will mean for having control of the irish military the air force the navy and the and the army and in relation to. the relationship with the irish french forces and with the guardian i imagine amongst those 2 groupings that huge amount of them have to build for us through for us to get the result we have we will see any major difficult bits or other down here as regards dealing with justice issues so we just if joins in johnson refuses the good friday agreement under the agreement aboard a poll you know we're going to use the military i don't foresee and that sort of situation occurring no no i don't worry america that again. after the break did their liberalism get off in a gale and piano for oil we speak any of our ad because news in right wing from a gale and the movement founded by easter rising common down payment developer referendum foil both arguable allies after the 2008 western economic crisis all this more coming up part 2 of going underground. in 2040 you know bloody revolution to the demonstrations going to be relatively peaceful political protests to be creasing the violent revolution is always spontaneous or is it still here. put me in the new bill is that i knew pulling you to the former ukrainian president recalls the events of 2040. those who took. this to do over 5000000000 dollars to assist ukraine in these enough to ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. we know in psychology that the more people are told that they can't or shouldn't do something whether it's sexual or otherwise the more it makes them want to do so trying new things violating taboos are some of the most common in pervasive i want to. welcome back continuing our coverage of arguably the biggest transformation in the island's electoral politics since independence i'm joined now by the party that won the most seats in the doyle if not the popular vote fianna foil barry andrew former minister and now member of the european parliament joins me from strasburg what do you make of this huge defeat for going to foil even though you won in the door well well look it's a classic case of the people have spoken but nobody's really sure at what they've said so we are now in a state of flux there's no doubt that the political landscape has been redrawn for the 1st time in many many years and so fein have now to. present themselves as a. of governments but the numbers simply aren't there so for a fee to fall we're in a terrible position whereby government just in a gale doesn't represent change government which in fein would cause mutiny within our party another election isn't exactly possible either so it's a case of least worst options at the moment. what happens next but isn't the problem. with. the you he is completely in the nation is associated with that when you wait grace is its closeness to bill that anglo-irish it's just. the i.m.f. arriving in dublin after a total destruction of you're going to me know you will know that there was an intervening general election in 2016 and that there were local and european elections last year and 2019 and in both of those theaters fall did extremely well because the largest party of local government this circumstance of the 2020 lection have almost no bearing on what happened in 2008 i think we're being punished for providing the stability and sustainability of the government to the confidence to supply arrangement i think we did the right thing and i don't think blame needs to be attached to the leadership of the party it's just the mood of the people is very negative towards finegan and it was a plague on all your houses you're saying that it wasn't memories of brian cowen then the it was. it was perhaps a few in the gale in your govt does apply agreement but maybe those young people that grew up during the they've grown up in effect and maybe that's surely the yeah but it doesn't know i think the housing issue is. the problem there is the government took an approach which is that they basically genuflected to the to the to the private sector to deliver housing for our young people is what the private sector doesn't care about social issues and so it was a terrible mistake and so there are loads and loads of people now in their thirty's that are paying high rents that don't have a realistic chance of owning their own home but have good jobs so they feel almost detached from the state they feel almost tenants of distaste and that sense of disenfranchisement really bubbled up and to the surface during the course of this election when you talk about housing with respect it will. it is a journey guba no neither of those people would say with this case the republicans will go with the tories sorry we didn't have a coalition with finegan we provided confidence and supply we supported 3 budgets initially and a 4th budget there after health housing child care at the cost of living these were the issues fein ran a very good campaign there were a lot of people elected on sunday who couldn't get into the local authority just 6 months ago in local elections so it was a presidential style election and mary lou mcdonald presented a very good case together with some of her leadership we acknowledge that we put our hand up and there are lessons for us there but i believe we paid a huge price for confidence and supply. vanes marilu mcdonald hadn't exactly miscalculated in terms of putting up candidates at the election your point he would have been wiped out and i don't even i think most people said father just looking out it's calculate that they might have left behind 6 or 7 seats to to their miscalculation but that was based their miscalculation was based on the fact that they got hammered in the presidential election in 2018 they got hammered in the irish european and local elections in 2019 and they got hammered in the westminster elections in december 2900 so they understood that the direction of travel was very negative for shin fein. cian fane whether it was going to. unification like for oil become the new uniform does feel the full even of the right now to say when the conditions are right reunification referendum should the doesn't have the right to say there will be a reunification referendum within 5 years or less doesn't the gift doesn't fall into their hands as you probably know the good friday agreement devolved power to the british secretary of state when he or she determines that the circumstances are career. and then if they make that conclusion they are obliged to put a unity referendum but as you probably have learned in the u.k. about referendums it is vitally important that the landing ground after referendum is clearly delineated for voters so that they know exactly what they're voting for we've made no capital planning provision for the consequences of unity in terms of any of the government programs that are in published over the last couple of years as an enormous amount of work to be done on those issues it's not something that an irish government can deliver as do i new economic modeling is we. didn't do it when it was in government and huge speaking to me from strasburg surely instead of just saying it's all up to westminster in the boris johnson government the government in dublin should be leveraging if indeed reunification it should be using e.u. leverage to get reunification on the drawing board i think is less of an e.u. issue than say brags that this is an issue the u.k. has already made it clear that it has no strategic interest in the continuing presence on the island of ireland and it's merely there in deference to the consent of the unionist majority within the 6 counties if in a fall supports the reunification i do personally is one of the basic principles that i believe in the integrity of the island the geographical integrity of the island but we also fully accept the good friday agreement and all of the principles that underpin it including the principle of consent so we aren't going to go in with a steamroller and try to force unionism we have to build reconciliation in real terms politically economically and culturally with our unionist brother and on this island even if even in the. face with unionist politicians north of the border in the stormont was the result actually very expected and. a clear legacy of the western economic crisis invent a foil should have adapted to the conditions of the poorest people in the island who have clearly suffered since the i.m.f. and the bailouts of your country yeah i think i mean we've we've put our action slate our manifesto was prudent and acknowledge the reality of the situation and we weren't offering tax cuts we were offering increases and probably expenditure with with whatever additional revenues were available to the government and we were doing that at a prudent level by contrast we came up with a classic magic money tree they were going to spend 22000000000 over the next 5 years and i think the same criticism probably made of jeremy corman's manifesto so we've taken a very prudent line we don't want to beggar the next generation we've learned our lessons to critics say it's a really big good because the payments have to be made over what decades yes they do and there's a very very high national debt so that's still a millstone around ireland so any party that presents itself to the people with additional spending including abolition of property tax no carbon tax getting rid of the universal social charge or reducing it substantially and while also massive public spending capital spending increases that is reckless in the extreme thank you well if you can afford to let these got the most members of parliament at the election the big losers will be over it because in a gale joining me now from the irish capital is someone who campaigned with finagle council here and denis. commiserations just remind us why on earth your leader the 1st tee shot in irish history not to be elected in the 1st can't call the irish election in the 1st place well essentially you run out of numbers and then as a result of the european parliament elections number of. members of the dole were elected to european parliament and we don't do it by elections. elections were held in november and. the result of by elections and a day leading party for the gael you know only got one of those 4 by elections we only want one of them so. it became a numbers game and we had been essentially a sort of minority government being propped up by the center left and if you don't fall on they felt they couldn't continue that confidence and supply arrangement any longer why has the lead america not gone now given people on the doorstep saying under him thousands of children homeless rents up 40 percent albeit that 2008 i mean i was reading the life expectancy of a homeless irishman is 42 for irish women who are almost 37 why is your lead in all gone now well you must remember you know. this is the reason ireland for anyone to be sleeping on the streets clean up very good welfare system for anyone who finds and sells. a house in terms of the housing problem that's beginning to turn around a central statistics office announced that. new hospitals have gone up by 18 percent and that rents are beginning to come down again so it's a little ironic with the i come of the election that they one of the biggest problems people had was with housing and that that is now turning around but the override her was elected party leader 2 years ago. i think is a personal popularity was very high until before the election. still high in the party. we had difficulties during the campaign obviously the buck stops with him but i'm not sure he was the problem. or the reason the people who ordered or shouldn't say and so r.t. will be reflecting that over the next few weeks and months. but certainly nobody is calling for his head at the moment yeah the fate is obviously came too late for you from the central statistical office. but having said that and of course i should say shin fein supporters majority of the people who got the popular vote they say there is reason for people to be homeless this is a dual citizen clovis also says more irish people killed themselves in the 20008 austerity that were killed in the entire troubles between 68 in 1998 you can see why she in fame and the troubles are not really that relevant anymore despite their what a fin a gale politicians used to be saying on television screens after the result well not sure her thoughts to just it can prevent research to look at all said was that is the goal of us if you look at suicide figures they're actually higher in northern ireland which is which as you know what i'm going through what i was addressing was why finnegan ailes continued attempts to talk about it in fein in the context of the troubles when in fact austerity arguably killed more people than the n. tire troubles between 16 and 9 in 1908. very much disagree with our but i think most people find terrorism repugnant and they find it very difficult. to understand why people would a joy in a party that still had a private army that was responsible for so many doubts so many injuries daddies involved in smuggling in drugs and buy groceries up until quite recently. and they still celebrate that so others eatable the trip all busy to bother the irish electorate arguably but i have to ask you given that it was very radical. it doesn't bother 25 percent of the electorate but it does bother 75 percent elected i think people have to remember that ok but it was very bad who apparently leveraged boris johnson to accept a line down the irish sea off to theresa may have successfully stopped the irish government trying to put that in any post directed negotiation you think it is a finn a gale has done more for irish unification than the ira then shin fein then even him and developer is fianna for oil well d. line down they are you see on the questions about the irish border true an international agreement signed between united kingdom and the irish republic have any more than there on the terrorism a it was there under boris johnson in his negotiations with the u. and of course. took a close interest in those negotiations well the obligations under the good friday agreement are there under every prime minister unless u.k. wants to revoke the international agreement to resume negotiated a post breaks that deal that did not include a line down the irish sea where as well as johnson did now brooke yes facing aligned a border down the r.c. yes but in trees amazing agreement with europe there was to be no border between the republic of ireland no our board of trade republic of ireland i'm not an ardent there and as a thank you thank you. that's half of the show will be back of the table cost and globally at the same times the nazi u.k. and on new times of a $34.00 to $30.30 g.m.t. until they get touched by such media don't forget to subscribe to your. you know world of big partisan lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door on the back and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the troops the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. as the election cycle rages on the media highlights or even invent what they deem to be important even radical what they don't tell you is how the political center is collapsing in today's campaign is what voters think about the status quo. as syria is a liberal and this is wracked by violence. tensions grow between russia and turkey which are accusing each other of breaking deescalation agreements. italy's former interior minister to face trial for not permitting refugees to land in sicily last year despite him being elected and. sitting on a powder keg greece goes over claims there fueling hatred and violence between residents and refugees locals from one island on the frontline of the modern crisis . we all know what n.g.o.s are.
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