sadie hopefully an independent scotland will get back soon and finally david says only a should and a scottish voice in the world we are ignored by westminster now only 4 candidates are still in the labor leadership race emily thornberry lisa nandi the bank along bailey and cut in toronto a favorite secure starmer alex looks at their prospects in turn with political commentator steve richards and former labor economic adviser richard murphy. so steve richard welcome to the show that we're here there's this race for the labor leadership able to form but lisa mandy rebecca long billy stark there we're going to start from the the outsider to the fever so we'll start with emily thought 100 to 100 yards no we're not even sure she'll get to the starting gate in the boat 10 days time what if she added something to this contest in a way it's very surprising that she has struggled to to make a big impact if a year ago i think most political commentators if they were asked who had a real chance of winning the leadership she would have been very much up there. and it appears that what has happened really is that kiss starmer who will talk about later has basically stolen her constituency before she even had a chance to address it so even though she is well known she has been shadow foreign secretary which is a very senior post in the shadow cabinet. has stood in a prime minister's questions which is a real test of being leader of the opposition. it appears that even almost before the race formally began she didn't have enough of a constituency of support to propel her forward and hasn't really had momentum which is of course a key element of a campaign and the target then with all his argument that she's bested ballers johnson in the dispatch box a lot so he would appeal to the to the liberal membership that overemphasizes the importance of the dispatch box in there very many ways it is important in the westminster bubble but in the world outside maybe not so much the world outside remembers her from mistakes the white and man issues that he's also one of those people who seems to fall into a category of politicians of those who are destined to get near high office but never the leader she has all the qualities to be as the put it a good. shadow foreign secretary she might be a good foreign secretary but would she be a good leader i think people have their doubts about that and i can understand that it doesn't appear she has that ability to pull people together and a leader has to do that and she seems to be lacking that element and people sense that she's not winning the supporters a result so i stop listen and do the work and then. got some good reviews for some of the interview she's doing she's taking to one some of the the odds at the present moment is that too long a place big failing she did for cope and that is an element which still says you should be able to accommodate him and if you look at it from a purely analytical point of view could she pull everyone together i suspect there's a real doubt in people's minds about that ability and that's where a president fails if she has a chance of being a very senior member of the news shadow cabinet when there's another leadership election which inevitably there will be she might do very well so i know n.p.r. will listen and because she's still a man of jo's a surprise packet in the race i can see legally potential lisa nandy. in a way that i didn't expect to you know a few months ago i can see why she is doing as well as she is she started as the least well. but has forced her much the most impressive and interesting of the campaigns to have been that unfortunate remark to catalonia because most people draw the line that successful socialists government so go back to old ladies across the head not even improbable not was here and that shows i mean she claims she was misinterpreted but i kind of read back what she said and it wasn't entirely misinterpreted and that shows i think that highlights the kind of. all useless of some of the thinking she fell into a trap and that would be a big bump because labor in some way or another has to deal with it scottish problem i don't believe you can just write off scotland if you're part of the labor party most of the time she's been rather all thora to or and this is as important give the impression of being so that brings us to rebecca alone billy that the carbonate canned of the very elderly stage of this reissue was actually the favorite training even money at one time was drifted out to feed to 14 to one of those books of cause gone the wrong way a rep really or could come but so far she has proved not to be a great campaigner whereas lisa mann the appears authoritative whether she is or not is a different issue rebecca baillie has has failed to convince a wider part of that membership that she has those legally qualities so i think it's a failing in her candidacy and so far an inability to escape stereotype i'm told that she hates being called the continuity corben least a candidate but if you hate it you've got to get away from it and she has a pretty good so would you agree with her and i want us over there were still because she's gotten teed to get to the little stages of the story is still time for for a comeback other southern sage is hitting a straight after a shaky start well i've known rebecca long a little bit for some time i stress only a little bit but we have been there and actually probably for as long as i've been seeing listen any interaction if you'd asked me several years ago which of those 2 i thought would be labor leader it would have been nice and handy by the way and that would still be my view no i don't see the leadership qualities in rebecca long daily and i feel that actually she has been frankly given a bad hand by her supporters all not allowed to be her own person. and it all feels as though the central machine has been controlling what she's been delivering and i don't think labor's their membership is very keen on that i think agree with steve i don't think we can presume there is a typical labor member for labor membership that i need to do me the members i'm not a member but i meet lots of people who are and they all very diverse in their interests we go right back from the old style brown and social democratic set for people that are blairite still and there are of course the common east and so there is a very broad spectrum of people does she fit into any of those categories comfortably does she have the charisma to actually persuade those categories known as well so as a candidate i don't think she's been the person to carry forward the called minister fled so that brings us to the runaway favorite circular style of mark checking that i think is the 1st day of the rebel to run for the labor leader oversleep previously of leaders of sometimes only up in the house a lot of course but as a candidate for labor leadership and late of the realms of. a lot of the m.p. in a time when labor are struggling in the lawyer for eliminating those scums probably how course to regret accepting that night and every now and again the context of the labor leadership where he never obviously refers to himself as the kid this is really interesting as well because again to some extent challenges stereotypes so like a year ago everybody was saying we've already discussed a this labor party would only vote for a cotton type figure and be next time it would have to be a woman so whenever kids start his name came up it's not chance it will be a woman he must want. instead he's running away with it as you said north london lawyer with a knighthood and that just suggests to me but again the impact of that colossal defeat in december has hit home some in the media in britain a sale. they haven't come to terms with that still pretending that defeat didn't happen if that was the case would not be as far ahead as he is they see in him a way to be credible or to figure out. who might no one can tell in advance who might be the leader lee figure to lead them toward some kind of recovery and that's why he's doing much better i suspect that any political commentator would have predicted a year ago so richard does secure starmer have the gravitas you were alluding to earlier on i think the knighthood is quite interesting in this context and i suspect he's got more reasons to be grateful for it than steve suggests because he packed the knighthood does say he did something real he was director of public prosecutions he is a cutie he did take some cases which were thought to be very significant by the left some that they weren't so keen on but the point is he has a track record of competence and that is a badge of that so in the sense of the knighthood is simply i done something else in life i've managed a big organization i know how to deliver this stand out makes him stand out from the crowd and i believe is actually what the big difference is because labor is desperate for somebody who can run it and let's be totally honest the last couple of leaders have not actually stood out from the crowd in that way ed miliband was a career from very young age politician he'd never done anything else jeremy spent time on the back benches in effect of opposition and never run anything he is a man who's actually achieved i believe that is the whole basis of his appeal almost any policy so long as he's sensible in many ways he's being quite cautious on policy doesn't wolf stick comfortably with him because he can say i can deliver whatever it is so a lot. gaius is a shoo in for the leadership and we've only got one word to put if there's one word yes but you always qualify predictions of british politics these days no one can tell for sure because it looks like one sentence and. as close as that is to a shoo in yes. joining us after the break where alex will ask our panel how labor fits into the new political landscape of bricks it 1st. china chose to build their economy in such a way as that spawned the crisis of the crawling virus and for that there is an economic model and the u.s. could inherit a benefit of that economic penalty similarly the us build its economy in ways that cause other kind of extra analogies that are highly detrimental to the u.s. economy. what holds his hands to do something to. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president. or somehow want to be rich. but you're going to be cross which is what before 3 in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters of our. friendship. seemed wrong when old rules just don't hold. any gold yet to shape out these days comes to educate and engage with equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. welcome back there are 4 candidates left in the race to become labor leader i mean the finishing post of the opposition dispatch box in the house of commons but is there any chance of the new leader leading in labor a viable strong enough to shift in the grip of prime minister boris johnson alex continues this discussion with steve richards and richard murphy. so professor richard murphy we reconcile your stammer at this stage that looks like he's a very very justified heavy odds on favorite but the bigger question is going to be prime minister is it possible to come from the defeat of last desire. to get to the prime ministership over the course of this parliamentary term that's not something that's entirely down to cure starmer of course that's not down to any member of the labor party a lot of that is down to what boris johnson does and whether he's competent or not remember the old rule governments lose elections oppositions don't win them so if johnson is a disaster the question is is he a star of the man who could replace him if johnson is excessive doesn't matter what his stomach does because johnson is going to be in power for 10 years so the question is can he actually now johnson down able to exploit those failures now. i'm torn on that issue because i don't think that he has starmer is the best dispatch box operator he's a bit dull to be blunt and even looks a bit dull when he's at the dispatch box he's not an animated figure but he is coldly analytic and he does therefore see the issues if he can formulate the strategy and react on his feet which is something that's almost generally called was not good at the prime minister's question time generally called and was awful but the follow up question here starmer is a natural for that role as a q c if he can do that then he has the ability to get johnson on the ropes but it's only if johnson gives him a chance a kid star has the potential once things go wrong johnson if he has that killer instinct then he has the ability probably to actually achieve it but all of those are conditions to be taken into consideration so yes he could win the next general election but there's a lot of ifs on the way so could suck your. starmer blore bottles johnson of course will little quite a bit of help there's a very good quote from a former well known now dead labor cabinet minister who. would much about who said of margaret thatcher power made her beautiful now what barbara meant by that was you cannot tell in advance whether the crown is going to suit her figure until they become a leader many people thought margaret thatcher was going to be a terrible leader that it wouldn't the crown wouldn't fit but power made her beautiful with you disagree with what she did so in advance with starman it's very hard to tell as it is with all candidates whether power will make him beautiful i suspect that in some respects he will struggle. i think parts of the media will go for him and he will find that difficult. and that he will find it frustrating bringing to life a project when so much focus is going to be on the government labor camps defeat them in the house of commons the government. because of that majority it can announce policies and no one will pay much attention because it's not going to be in power for the next few years so it's very very tough whether we have a moment of catastrophe for this government who knows you don't know until the catastrophe happens but there are certainly going to be moments of great internal tension within this ruling conservative party and a clever leader of the opposition will be there to have exploited and then turn things around just like your boat gently carbon wheel or source tireless assume that your stomach becomes loop body with journalism leaves a lot of time looking at the his success of being demonized and looking at success or still perhaps in the horns of a. a european. permit themself or a wry smile. said it was all about his leadership no because he's basically german government for all his epic flaws as a leader is a nice bloke and i don't think we'll get any malevolent thrill that his successor is. suffering but i think the key to whether he or whoever wins this contest succeeds is the few successful leaders have always addressed the wide question which you did when you were leader of the s.n.p. you didn't just go around it's got to say if you vote s.n.p. you will get independence you constantly said why you were in favor if pierce on the can say why he should be prime minister why labor should be back in power and begin to convince the electorate he may well win but if he doesn't even try he will lose a little more fit is there are more fundamental thing even than that which goes beyond the personality of a social democratic opposition leader beyond the well you can compress sure your policy aspirations into a few understandable who it was a crisis for the social democracy in general below that aren't that many social democratic parties unless they've got something else going for them which are a willing across europe a labor become one of the few successful social democratic parties the answer to that question is really down to economics now i would say that i'm a political economist but i happen to think it's true and one of the things that worries me about this labor leadership election is that we have 3 lawyers and a former charity worker in the campaign and none of the move particular flair for economics and that is not particularly encouraging because labor has to have a credible economic narrative because the writer slaughtered it 3 years on the basis of we've got to balance the books because that's right because we're like a household it is a. and the government is not like a household because it controls the money supply and in fact it doesn't create enough money by actually lending it into existence there's not enough to keep the economy going but the point is they don't need to actually break away from this idea that the balance budget is the key thing and that the government can't responsibly be the deposit holder for private savings which is all that government borrowing is now there's one country in europe that has done this quite well and curiously portugal where portugal has broken the stereotype it has lived within the constraints that were trying to be imposed upon it by the e.c.b. in others and it has gone to be austerity nonetheless system and he's been over there studying that example to see how they built a narrative around this more successfully than anyone else to actually persuade people that austerity was a disaster it has been a disaster even the effort he think it's a disaster but he's got to turn that into political success and there's a long way to go before he persuades people up and down the country that what the political commentary i think is a disaster is actually a disaster in the eyes of the person in the red war. was to look at scotland for a 2nd disk secure star understand why a social democratic party the s.n.p. have been so successful scotland well as another social term across the park to the labor party have gone from the heights to to a single solitary m.p. left is that really occupies my i'm trying to walk why that's happening i'm sure it will occupies mine because i said as i said earlier i don't think he. and i suspect anyone who becomes leader of the labor party if it's not him would just say oh let's write off scotland i just because the implication of that is against labor must make in england are huge in a way i think that goes beyond the blair era so it will try he would try and work out what has happened in scotland i don't. for one second he's got any of the outs as to it at the moment there will be a deep search for what possibly could bring about some kind of recovery but given call binns uncharacteristic optimism being wholly unfounded it just shows the scale of the challenge for whoever takes over the leadership of the labor party in april so lastly steve and richard used to say president reagan had sleepless afternoons well what all crisis was one of those daunting promise johnson which of the labor candidate would give him sleepless off that newton's who does he not want to be a labor leader the only one that he would not want is kid stuff and i think that's one reason why the labor party membership want him i don't want to dismiss the others i just don't think they have the ability to hold him to account in the way that kid star has and we may be wrong but he looks like the person who could have that ability to literally nail him down no leader wants to be made to look uncomfortable wrong forced into a difficult position with the smart rejoinder the dispatch box or wherever else and i think his time has that potential and that's why the restaurant so will be most frightened of him when dominic cummings is whispering in the prime minister's ear to believe a little shit i think most broadly at the moment dominic cummings boris johnson and others are really worried about the labor leadership race at all they've got power almost to themselves at the moment are focusing on how to use that and boy are they using it in unusual ways. as far as they are addressing it i think richard is right this clearly within boris johnson a sort of fear of scrutiny he doesn't like interviews he didn't like the last house of commons very much where he didn't have a majority and i think he would be worried about to start at his most forensic and there's nobody behind bars johnson saying remember your mortal. not at the moment i think this is a number 10 with. well there's no leader of the opposition really of there until the selection is completed they've got a big majority much of the media doto on that. whereas tony blair had always to face gordon brown as a counter of the treasury number 10 faces no quit in a cabinet minister so the moment there is a mighty number 10 and no real opposition until this leadership contest is resolved steve richards richard murphy thank you very much indeed thank you thank you. many commentators particularly those sympathetic to labor are weighing in about the current labor leadership being in denial they argue that corbin and corporatism was unsaleable to the electorate the context that titian as the labor membership want to elect a winner i'm still tack about a tad to the center with secure starmer as a more respectable figure who will prove more difficult to be lampooned by the mainstream media however they may be doing the carbon cap an injustice that is at least an argument in the wake of the raid will collapse in the election but commons instincts on the view in england on the european union were better offending to the north of most candidates to replace them it is likely that the problems for labor are more fundamental with even their radical programs struggling to compete in an age of populist politics. look beyond the red wall to the formal citadel of scotland where labor are hopelessly out flanked by the s.n.p. on the tories or either side of the constitutional question as a result they didn't end up with a 30 plus percent of the vote i knew $200.00 m.p.'s as in england but 20 percent and a single lonely m.p. the big battle over breaks it may be over but the underlying issues which it raised control of board just money and laws will not go away anytime soon come labor compete on that landscape if the new labor leader is to make real progress that it will take more than a lick of paint and better presentation it might need more fundamental thinking about the position of the left of center and the new age of populist politics and of course they will also require some unintentional assistance from the prime minister. next week we turn to the issue of just war not just to me but leadership but even bricks it itself in the headlights how we enter the age of global pandemics what if anything can any government do about it i mean now from alex myself and all of the team is good bye for night and we hope to see you next to. the russian state television propaganda machine propaganda outlet propaganda tools we are getting information. that can change the way. we use and how do you tube videos that. are structured today is the longest now blood. pressure brushes russia russia and russia say. but i want to believe that they were actually russia today and i really had to join to see you then on r g. 4 are so proud and still. are just getting the number. why have you not shut down our t.v. on you tube it's a propaganda machine mr walker. thinking of getting a coupon the ones we got on the ship. as we didn't know what to do he's trapped in this tiny little wired which we don't need to create with him he will just start freaking out and he will let us pretty much anywhere near thousands of breeding dogs that caged in in human conditions on puppy farm i mean 67 years you know they've been locked up in cages outside you see no protection from the weather the heat you know the courtier the rain the snow the thunder off they have no protection. for you. to get through kids. across the u.s. cruel puppy mills are supported by dog shows and pet stores most of the puppies that are coming from this large scale factory farming kind of operations are being sold in stores even joined a group businesses are involved like the mum center there has been a shocking amount of organized opposition to efforts to increase the standards of care for dogs bred in commercial breeding for so many most of that opposition is coming from huge agricultural groups and industries that have nothing to do with dogs don't buy dogs. so the politicians have basically stuck the american public with the bella paid to negotiate for drugs and both parties who are financed very heavily by the pharmaceutical industry have done this so when your own people vote they should look at how much does this politician get from the power pharmaceutical industry that's. in a p.r. disaster king the regional prime minister steps down in germany right after being elected to the huge fallout over union struck with german chancellor and the right wing alternative for germ. of the us election primaries begin twitter follows you've been changing policy on altered videos and images but the wording of the new rule spawns concern the tech giants might use it to support the politicians they dislike. the court gives custody to social services of a completely healthy child left by parents in hospital.