All Things Considered on this edition of. A post mortem of the recent us around conflict what has changed and what bodes for the future issues the Mainstream Media refused to discuss. Some real news im joined by my guest going is a professor at the Higher School of economics as well as author of the case of western civilization and resurgence of russia we also have Dimitri Bobbitt shes a political analyst and editor in a smi internet media project. Andy in london we Cross Alexander macarius he is a writer on Legal Affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran dot com our german crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciated let me go to alexander in london you know over the past 10 days or so weve heard the term escalation deescalation proportional and one of the things i think that is mr very much is the how the behave the behavior on the side of the leadership and to iran and in washington we term asymmetrical was used all of the time and i think indeed it was asymmetrical but for very very Different Reasons taran was being strategic and political while trump was relying upon sanctions and the 3rd and the demand that the United States be remain inside of iraq against the will of the people in government and parliament there that is what makes this all asymmetrical and i think you can draw different conclusions about as a media likes to do who won and who lost go ahead alex and well heres what i mean i think the fundamental difference is that the radios deployed the entire strategic range of their assets they werent together there that Foreign Policy that diplomats they bring to get their political leaders they built bring in their intelligence operatives their military people or so their economic assets such as they are and they set themselves very clear objectives which they dont let themselves be diverted from and that objective is not clearly defined easy as to trying to get the United States and the middle east out of iraq specifically and to areas where they can threaten iran the United States while i contrast what we see there is a dysfunctional government which doesnt have any kind of clear long 6 long established plan so you. Different people pushing for different objectives you have people look wanting to escalate as you put it which means essentially having a wall you see the u. S. Government forced into frantic through the Swiss Embassy in tehran which it now turns out it was the United States which initiated it was lee you know yes and having started the escalation became panicked and saw the way out to deescalate in other words they dont have clear objectives and theyre not working towards those objectives instead you get the impression of a very powerful country stretching around throwing bombs in some directions killing people in other directions threatening people with sanctions but it isnt coherent and you know. You wouldnt get that impression from Mainstream Media go ahead glenn go ahead and i was just going to say this the theme of a. Dominance has been the very central strategic objective by the United States or. The simplicity that america would be able to increase escalate when it wants them to bring it down so for example if the u. S. Drops bombs in pakistan to syria or in any other dozen countries understanding would be that country would not be allowed to respond because of the unpredictable and there are devastating consequences from your so they can bring tensions up and down as they want for pressure now whats interesting with iran is they more or less denied this is america course what they did was they launched their missiles directly at American Military bases and america essentially have to suck it up and accept well this is the price we have to pay for for killing. General in the in iran so this is so that they rob americans of this escalation run their business its very interesting because diem if you look at the rayney in response wife i. During those missiles they were just hitting buildings and store room warehouses and things like that it sent but that is the message there is that they can do it they cant be stopped and theyre not limited to iraq and i think that is the strategic message that they were sending nobody in the Mainstream Media the Corporate Media picked up on that well and that is the see i asked in my introduction what has changed that has changed and policymakers in washington if they have any kind of horse sense at all have to take that on board well i slightly disagree with you on Corporate Media because this is what i read in the New York Times. Sports was well was a well calibrated measure for the ferguson is that just being anti trump exactly ok exactly what i find so this is the 1st time in 10 years that they agree with and maybe the wrong reason congo for their own reasons because actually what we saw was you know the no calls have shown their obvious sight you know during the obama years and during this russia gate and ukraine gate investigations we have seen that ugly side of the liberal interventionists they started the war in libya they started the war in syria they started basically started the war in ukraine now we see the ugly side of the neocons i mean that havent been canceled i hope by the new broom and interventionist we saw it and what i think was more stable was basically of the moral side of it all i mean tom given an interview to fox news they asked him why did you do it why did you kill general sorting mine and what are your facts you know and trump responds i believe it could. Have i believe i did good for emphasis i believe if we could have been military bases it could have been a lot of other things but suddenly he was gone well this is the thinking in im sorry all of Oscar Pistorius you know the South African this lead who killed his daughter and shooting. From a bottle because he thought it could have been in court to see it could have been roberts but pistorius was on trial for that and mr crump instead of based on trial gets britneys from the wall street journal though you know we have the article there which says. Are we seeing a regen survival of trumps 40 portis year thats the headline and you can imagine it would end if you could alex perry you know alex it seems to me and ill just be kind of more blunt here i think the assassination of the money was an act of desperation because there is a lack of imagination in how to move forward because essentially the u. S. Is going to be find itself isolated in its fred friendly country iraq instead of fighting isis or point making sure it doesnt come back its going to have to worry about the shia militias firing upon them in their bases i mean i think this doesnt make any sense to me as something was started and i have no idea how its going to end go ahead alex. Is correct because of course the United States as i think has become very clear now seriously underestimate if you do run what then they pulled out of the j. C. Way when they imposed all these sanctions on the thing that iran would on the very quickly come to the negotiating table all of that the government there would rapidly collapse because of massive bore you to protests nothing like that has happened the european allies have shown that theyre not very keen on this whole crisis distract all they werent consulted it is the United States in this situation which is looking increasingly are isolated even the saudis even the israelis were not particularly its interesting that was one of the questions i sent out to you guys is that there was it was really relatively quiet in the region as theres always going on ok because again the demonstration effect over the. The the attack on the saudi. Energy installations sent a message and everyone else has been taking that on board except for some neo cons in washington d. C. You want to get in just a small you know it all started with the United States born being a base or sharing militias in iraq and then mr truong got very angry about demonstrations near the American Embassy in the United States about it but we hear from c. B. S. From c. B. S. From david march and their correspondent that i called these shared militias are part of the Iraqi Security force and there were 25 People Killed there imagine some foreign country. You know a base of u. S. National guard kielce 25 people and then they are dismayed that the United States citizens are staging a demonstration in their embassy you know and these demonstration it was von percent all d war the ukrainian nazis did during their mind on protests they set on fire 10 buildings there and people and killed 38 policemen this is how the war started put in didnt start that it started in kiev but now there were just a few storms thrown their gate of the embassy the current of their guest the green zone you know and the Iraqi Security force did not react why because plenty of 5 of their colleagues were killed you know its interesting you know. I was watching how my pompei of the secretary of state was reacting to all this and they dont want any kind of questioning of their i was going to say strategy but there is no strategy the way i can see it i mean it looks quite empty and vacuous and they dont really have a reason it seems that this is the goal and it seems to me they did the assassination is merely because they could do it not that was made any strategic sense yeah no i agree and i think they kind of walked themselves into this difficult position because the mainland. Well legitimacy behind this would be they call them a terrorist and then this is killed terrorists and its probably the most fundamental individual in the region that actually pushed isis back but this kind of shows the problem of demonizing iran because you know already 3 months ago they recognize the revolutionary guard a Military Branch in iran as a terrorist organization and then by definition the leader of the solar money they define him as a terrorist now once you start throwing this words around terrorist calling foreign leaders Foreign Terrorists now youre opening for you having this legitimate socalled legitimate. Interest in us is legitimizing that why cant a rand do which is well its been legitimized. Exactly at all once and the kind of language that youll just you know it could have been for emphasis and then suddenly hes gone you know it was ascribed to study and then he said there is a man there is a problem there is no man there is no problem no one started saying that publicly but truong is basically saying that both that part were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on some real news day with our team. Actually has a National Survival guide stacey lets learn. Lets say im not sure i get your police im greece comes back up the fight d. Thank you for being. On the story thats right. Thats still a very. Good food description sound up to tell using even for the owners so how to choose the cat Food Industry is telling us what to feed our pets more based on what they want to sell us then was necessarily good for the pet turns out that food may not be as healthy as people believe we have animals that have you know diabetes and arthritis they have auto immune disorders allergies we are actually creating these problems its a huge epidemic of problems and i believe can be linked to a very simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories about their pets street to larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because theyre already making it a 1000000000. 00 on it and theres no reason to do that research. Welcome back across the uk where all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle to to remind you were discussing some real news. Ok lets go back to alex in london you know alex like this this 10 day. Fiasco that we all went through. A lot of war jitters and whatnot and a lot of exaggeration in the media and misinformation disinformation thats why we do programs like this but there is one problem out there that is not resolved then is going to be increasingly more difficult to resolve and that is the u. S. Military presence in iraq now trump is been threatening iraq with sanctions making you have to pay for these bases while the u. S. And its allies in baited in 2003 illegally i dont see why the iraqis have to pay one cent as a matter fact an apology is. Do you also we have threats that the the new York Fed Bank may withhold cash reserves that are held on behalf of iraq and if im not mistaken in the in the tune of 3000000000. 00 i mean is this how you treat an ally i mean dont you go shared in top with a now i am not threatened thats how you resolve issues or maybe that is is something no one void in this administration when it comes to Foreign Policy go ahead alex what this is absolutely shocking behavior because those troops those american troops in iraq are supposed to be there at the invitation of iraq if iraq asks for them to go they should go in fact it seems that the United States not only wants them to stay it is prepared to put coercive pressure and you talked about this attempt to stop you in iraq accessing banking facilities in order to force them to stay that is not the action of an ally that is the action of an occupier of a country that is trying to occupy iraq for its own purposes in order to conduct was against other countries namely iran with which iraq is on good terms and which iraq needs to be on good terms with so it is all for behavior and of course it is extremely unwise and very dangerous behavior because increasingly iraqis at every level of society who are already very angered by the experiences of 1st the war and occupation of their gun treat but also the previous history of sanctions that the United States imposed on iraq are now increasingly going to start to see the United States and its military on their territory as not the solution to their problems but has the problem you know yeah i mean as glengall it clinton. Seems to me we have to remind our viewers that in the 1980 s. Iran and iraq on an 8 year war something akin to like trench warfare in the 1st world war it was bloody it was awful it was destructive. And now we have this illegal invasion of iraq and the net outcome of that is that iraq has moved closer to iran a country that they fought a bloody war for 8 years. Doesnt the american stance actually than in push forward a better iraqi iran relationship because you know the trumpet ministration say were going to leave and part of the conditions is that we want everyone else to leave everyone should get out of iraq i think you could sell that idea the i think a lot of iraqis would go for it i think the majority of iraqis would like to see all foreign troops all foreign opera operatives leave but the way the trumpet administration is playing it works to irans advantage again. A little bit in 2003 and 4 after the invasion and we saw that the. That. With the sudden same gone a future shiite dominated iraq who are increasingly aligned itself closer with iran and of course overcome their troubled history now i think. Theres been a one of the unintended consequence of killing all the money as well now the iraqis are asking americans to leave iraq because of course they dont want to be battlefield for the in the middle of all of this so so yes the play this and then the very very bad way and of course this will be a big strategic victory for the iranians because they would like the americans to leave the middle east and iraq would of course be highest priority in terms of where they should lead in syria. Yes of all obviously so i think well i do sympathize with the goal though to get like you mentioned get them on out of iraq and i think what the middle east really needs is a proper Security Architecture and now i think the problem there. I think this more interest in in conceptual us and Security Architecture like we do in europe or we establish or military alliance aim for example against russia now i think they want to recreate something similar in the middle east now Security Architecture should include iran once or exclude it then we have the european system more its targeting another state and then security becomes the fine very much sincero some terms ok but you didnt used to were dull use it nato they want to get you know in the levy bring other in the air of nieto or even expanding nato to include arab countries which i think is kind of intricate is nobodys mention if israel should be part of that i think thats an interesting no wrinkle when when have to work and but you know it game of this idea but open arab nieto has been floated before but no but in their region seemed to be particularly interested it well tromps said that doll he said you know i dont quote in him we can to use naidu in other locations for example in the medium least a lake their liberal intervention is have been on tape it with promp or all these years same that he did look respect he is european allies you know he thought their joy when it was known pain and alf now tromp a scene you know these european gazed their use this neither waste you know we can expend their but isnt that takeable the county has been all complied the americans have truly good a civil war you know rock that keeled according to various estimates about ive heard any good men the you know on television site in physicians for peace whos see it could be up to london median People Killed in the rock s. A result over their Chain Reaction from their American Intervention in 2003 so vonn 1000000 People Killed and non mr trump is seeing you are all oss 12000000. 00 all the money of that we spend on their war in iraq you with a rock youll go meant to or were us but also as other interesting point is that i think in the rocket we see how liberal interventionists and nell course in the United States how the miscalculated to bowl democracy they had been warned that the majority in iraq is basically shaded most liberals so if if you introduce democracy there bro you raney and bodies would get would when you know that it was obvious but still you know George Bush Jr and are those the press that have you know they had elections and know their own paper that iran has influence well of course iran has influence and there are some party in the rock which support doing and presence because they need it against the socalled Islamic State the true lies are on there so when youre a good course and also iran is religiously close to them we had the same story in ukraine why is ukraine a dictatorship no because if you have democracy the rule russia and the eastern candidate wins as it was the case with kuchma when all of a craft to work with the young actually beaten you Mission Going the 1st all astroland over elections so a lot of with a zillion steve having a landslide against against poroshenko so this idea that we need democracy but some kind of a creamy and we do not really say you have translated into policy ok this go back to our next hero me i think its really quite fascinating that you know the europeans and the country should get more involved in the middle east why would they want to do that because it turned into with your teacher backwater in a quagmire but i guess thats what trump really wants he wants other people to do his dirty work for him and not just his i mean prime previous administrations as well i mean it really shows a lack of Strategic Vision i mean want to leave the middle east Problem Solved and we solve for the United States and let the people in the region figure it out because thats the only way its ever going to be figured out go ahead well thats absolutely right and i think that in the hunt year expanding or sending nato troops to the middle east is absolutely horrifying to most people i mean speaking here in gross there would be massive blow position. In germany where it was proposed some time ago by the current German Defense minister that they send troops to syria to act as a peacekeeping force when the us be pulling out the evil one horrified at the whole notion the europeans would be appalled European Public would be appalled by such a thing it seemed to me frankly that this is just try again trying to find a way saving face pulling u. S. Troops out of the middle east without at the same time surrendering all appearing to surrender to the the middle east and so he turns to his nato allies who are of course not interested it proves again exactly the point you made at the start of the program that there is no real Strategic Thinking behind all of this was a quickly say ideas of setting up arab and arab nato they go all the way back to the 19 people it is those of us with memories or knowledge of the history of the region you know there was the baghdad pact yet of the 950 s. Yet what did he do it provoked a revolution in iraq because that leaves one of the region dont want it its extraordinary how the us instead of learning from its mistakes always seems to repeat them you know glenn the critics are gonna turn from the left im actually from on the right as well i think of some writers on the website the american conservative is it 3 years in if the ministration in election looming is that trump has not dreamed the swamp pieces actually taken it over hes running it now and thats a little bit over the last year of the last 10 days so really show their go here there are no i agree im. A clear traction for many of to vote for trump again this this idea that he wont pull them out of the wars now is interesting. They did this discrepancy between the American Leadership and the people because every kind of election has had the same following like bush he won after clinton because it promised america would not be a global policeman to be in tunisia to build a new nation with nation building then you had the obama he wanted change the new peace candidate the new trump he promised you know were going to pull us out of the middle east and all of this foreign conflicts its going to be america 1st they get now he seems to be doubling down as well the whole sea taking on iran is just if there were where do you go who would who to vote for its so i think this this might cost lection its interesting its kind of how it plays out of New South Wales and david 20. 00 last 25 seconds go to you well its amazing that probably one of their good things about it all is that for the 1st time in many years democrats are speaking out against the wars vali nasr of all the pages of the New York Times the person who supported the interventions in the in ukraine and you this why their son says youre a new son nationalists a new war with the United States they would see as forced on them as a fight with the bully well thats true but the only problem is why did he cave like by did he say before that it never would have been said if it wasnt for the individual sitting in the white house that shows how everything is warped. Politics because of one man and your perception of about all the time we have gentlemen here many thanks my guests here in moscow and in london thanks to our viewers for watching us here r. T. C. You next time remember rostock rules. Leg. Length. Live. Live. Live live. Live. Live. Live. Live live. Live. Live live. Oh. Please. Liz. Liz claim. Very well now continue watching on since last. As of 2013 the pet Food Industry was dominated by only 5 more tech conglomerate companies. You know when a consumer walks into a store its easy to see