A time in the near future im saying 10 maybe 20 years where. Everything that we do pretty much will be done better by the robots and we will be jobless. No i dont think were anywhere close to that because theres you know different kinds of things the humans are good for different kinds of things that robots are good for and right now. For our lives weve been a good at making robots to you know sort of very clear. Clearly structured logical progression like you can have a robot do the same thing over and over and over again what they werent good at is doing things where you know the logical progression was super complicated or difficult to define and so now that we have Machine Learning were able to have them do those kinds of things but there are so many other things the robots arent going to do theyre still not creative at all yet theyre still not good at talking about creative taking care of humans talk about creating a lot of theater wrists and scientists that i spoke luke like yourself are saying that robots wont ever be able to interface humans in creative jobs because they work requires unpredictable thinking inventing for mindsets one to the i. A. E. A. Be able to eventually produce creative stuff as well Artificial Intelligence can already write poetry its. Sure and so what what i think is important understand is that you know it would be a poor idea to say that theyll never be able to do anything in particular right we dont know what theyll eventually be able to do but what we can see is that theres things that they could do now its easy to extrapolate that they could do these kinds of things faster and better and cheaper but what is irresponsible i think is to make these logical leaps that were most certainly going to get these miraculous breakthroughs and we need miraculous breakthroughs for robots to actually be creative and for them to do things i mean a lot of the things that like writing poetry that you think of as creative theyre not inherently creative writing poetry is a craft and a robot can learn and do a craft and thats what we see them doing but the creativity you know figuring out how to do something new the 1st time when you have a system that runs on data and random numbers then you know thats giving you a different thing that sometimes might seem creative might seem like its just as good but its a different process and so i dont think that its reasonable to say that theyre the same or that this one is better or going to replace humans and and i think to get there we need real breakthroughs we need to invent something that might take a 1000 years ok so ok lets say that instead of creative we say craft and then that also means that its not only mcdonalds jobs being taken over by robots that we are talking about artificial testers could be couldnt be doing the job of a lawyer or an accountant of a diagnosis doctor and what they are will have to care hate. For a life is this conflict inevitable. Well i mean. You know maybe they compete in the same way that you know. Buggy whip drivers had to find Something Else to do because we have cars now right but in the sense that you know robots are taking over the job of a lawyer its probably because what the lawyer is doing is repetitive and monotonous and boring and low value and were actually going to be better off having a machine do it because the machine is doing a better job of it and maybe its true that we have too many lawyers its entirely possible humans havent always had this many lawyers no offense to the lawyers but you know if you if youve got a kid getting into college right now it might be good to advise them not to become a lawyer most of the lawyers we have probably are going to get to finish out their career because it takes a while to deploy these technologies but i dont i think the progression has to be looked at on longer time horizons and if you look on you know a horizon of more than a decade going back or Going Forward you can see that you know we you know these jobs were obsoleted by machines a long time ago a lot of them and weve replaced them with new jobs and thats. And thats what we want to do is who want to free up humans to do with their uniquely good and weve just gotten in the last 5 or 10 years because the Machine Learning we got to a point where we can really free up a lot of humans that we didnt have a way of freeing up before that. They cannot harm that or to do that yeah part of the brain that humans apart from freeing up humans maybe the extra wealth created by the Artificial Intelligence and machines will be used to just you know pay people money like universal basic income so that they can just file enjoy live and not be forced to work you know its possible it turns out i mean i dont think that. I mean in Life Experience anyway not working turns out to be a pretty poor choice for a lot of humans you know it doesnt make them happy you dont get a lot of fulfillment out of that and so its not that we want to put humans out of work when eyes imagine freeing up humans i certainly hope they dont all go to the beach what im hoping is that theyll work on the things that the robots cant do yet were choosing to have humans do these things you describe diagnostics and reading legal documents and these kinds of things when what we really would probably rather have them do is teach kids or become nurses and take care of people who cant take care of themselves you know those are things that were were choosing these are not problems with the technology the problems with humans choosing what to do with the technology and right now i feel like you know were choosing a lot of the wrong things and so if you get that opportunity because a robot is doing the work for you you get some free time you get your attention back you get that freedom well lets spend some of it washing netflix but then lets spend some of it taking care of other humans i mean thats what the potential here really is then there is this other thing right with Technology Yes it has already enabled our economy to grow like crazy for the past couple of decades yet the winners are fewer and fewer and most of the people arent really getting any richer i mean the gap is growing as we speak and while the knowledge you will supposedly improve life the rich will keep getting richer and the poor will keep becoming poorer. Well the poor keep getting richer too. You know i think that there is some misunderstandings about how this works right like when you calculate like say the Poverty Level you know the Poverty Level in the United States is about 31 times higher than the median Poverty Level for the world that means a poor person in the us has 31 times the wealth of a poor person on average right in the world you know thats pretty significant every day hundreds of thousands of people are coming out of extreme poverty thats extraordinary progress now were not done we have a lot of work to do but humanity as a whole is on a rampage doing better and better and better all the time now those gaps for individuals when you feel them it can be hard when you feel them you know i mean even i mean im doing pretty well but i work with people who are a lot richer than oliver be right and what you have to understand is that you know those those gaps are about how you feel youre actually still doing better than you were in your ancestors were and i think that you know there may be measures we could do to reduce those gaps and especially in vironment where you have. An economy where people arent getting a fair chance to participate theres really a lot of work there for humans to do to change the way their societies work to change the way civilisations work so that everybody gets a fair chance to contribute a fair chance to benefit and that you know that sort of equally distributed but those arent Technology Problems those are actually problems with human Decision Making those are problems with policy making those are problems with how we choose to set up and structure business and economies and those things and so we have to go figure out how to improve on them. The wealth. In the United States is made i know less about other countries so in the United States where i know more you know we do have a lot of people who are super wealthy because of technology or working in the Tech Industry i should say and if you look at what theyre doing with their wealth you know most of them if you you know once you have more money than you know what to do with a lot of it gets reinvested in companies that all to try and grow a lot of it becomes philanthropic wealth you know i spent some time working on projects for bill gates and those are philanthropic in nature right were taking the money that bill earned and trying to use it to solve Global Health problems so i think those kinds of things those sound worse than they really are a lot of times and maybe its not reasonable that someone should be able to get so wealthy but i wouldnt say thats the problem of technology or the Tech Industry or the problem that comes from how weve set up incentives in our economy ok publicly that was short break right now and when were back well continue talking to potter less hallman an inventor a hacker technology discussing how innovations can change our lives stay with us. The washington consensus led by the United States says the liberal world order must be defended at almost all costs said differently the Foreign Policy blog demands the post cold war you know polar moment to be preserved but alas. It would seem a multiple world has already arrived. Magistracy in brazil. Its awesome its beautiful its gorgeous hey if you are running a country that is an amazing pristine rain forest what would you do it. For the see below do the room lie though in. My limited role more than i was sentenced to die in prison by this crucial love my life. Case to grab some Media Attention i mean its a shooting in a 16 year olds to 16 Birthday Party foul so i think the police tell a lot of pressure to. Close the case. Before he is. Just drunk its like i couldnt believe those. Mommy are so far the wrong for them to she wouldnt want to speak with a 3rd of all of the issues because i will stand right next to. Me for days before you go see them are the one thing doing those 1617 zone so. This could lose one believes and i just wonder his fear of them both live tonight to food really. Formal it is close to. The other goofball know the truth. And were back with Bob Lutz Hallman that inventor hacker and Technology Futurist welcome back so compared to Tech Advances of the past this time around it is you know super fast this isnt steam engine or the awesome a bill that that happened in like one or 2 generation life lifespans right will our society even be able to adapt to the change just ask quickly as it happens because right now its twice if not more its faster than we are developing in terms of generations you know. I think were. Its easier to death over a generation so if you just look at the way your kids handle technology. Theyre pretty good at it they internalize it really they get something new and in todays its normal to them. You know so in some sense i think a lot of these technologies in one generation its enough for people to accommodate them. What do you think do you think we right now are ready to be dealing with a computer that surpasses human mind well weve had computers that surpass the human mind for our whole lives like a calculator has always been better at math than you and me right thats what were talking about yeah but not here is area better than a killer memorizing the phone numbers are Little Things that you know not every human you know can be quick and calculating right if youre like a mathematician or or youre in that filled like youre good at it in an observation yeah but but then here were talking about all encompassing human mind where were not just talking about one or 2 or 3 fields that are technical. Well i dont think i dont i think its not true that were close to creating computers that perform the all encompassing human mind if we really dont know how brains work but one thing we do know is that they dont work the way computers do and so you know trying to extrapolate that computer is get faster every year on an exponential curve and at this point theyll be smarter than humans its kind of like saying cars get faster every year and at this point youll be able to drive to australia its just not how they work thats not how brains work and so even though the computers do get better and they can do more and more and more stuff not on a course that replaces brains in my mind i dont see that happening and i think its kind of disingenuous to frame it that way its making people terrified and theres no reason for that these are just you know better and better tools that we can use our brains to put to use however we want you know Stephen Hawking sad that Artificial Intelligence is very good at accomplishing its goals and if its goals arent aligned with our assuming the were in trouble how do we make sure that Artificial Intelligence we create sticks to human values and if we try to humanize it one that limit its cognitive superpowers. I mean i think its like every other tool you have to do you have to. You have to express your values and how it gets used right and so when Artificial Intelligence is doing the wrong thing its because we didnt tell it what we cared about and what we wanted it to do you know these are. Still tools you know a hammer the same hammer can use to smash someones head is the same hammer i can use to build them a home but thats a human choosing what to do with that thats me expressing my values with a tool and thats what we need to do with Artificial Intelligence as well and i think those warnings you know. Dont appreciate them so much because i think its getting people more scared than they need to be but. But fundamentally the true the truth is we need to express to these tools when we build them what we want them to care about yes there is there are 2 camps one camp is as a camp that talks like you and then there is out there camp because youre always saying you are saying that being afraid of artists out of the intelligence is like being afraid of the steam engine back a days or a tractor or something. And its true that generally people are suspicious of technology but hey there are with i a. You know voices of i would say smart man like ill in moscow or Stephen Hawking oriel bill gates and theyre saying that you know we need pretty alert and theres reason to be afraid of new technologies alas we start to somehow. You know lead them into the right path. Those are all really smart guys of a massive amount of strength for all of them none of them work in Artificial Intelligence you might want to take note of that all of them read super intelligence which is a terrifying dystopian book about how computers are going to get smarter than humans and make us all obsolete i dont believe that we have some agency in this and we can choose how to use these tools to build a Better Future instead of a worse one and thats just one version of the story right theres just one story about how the whole world could go terribly wrong in the future. Ok so lets talk about you and your vision and your inventions you invent solutions to global issues and you come up with some amazingly ambitious projects like hurricane suppression by cooling off the surface of the ocean or you know have the ring a giant a hello balloon 14 miles about the earth which will pump out chemicals into the stratosphere and help hold back Global Warming but considering that ideas like this are way too expensive are they basically not more than just a big shift imagination i mean an exercise in dairy. Actually you know so both of those inventions are things that are worked on at the intellectual ventures lab what we tried to do was those are called geo engineering inventions and there are ways to a 1000000 some of the facts of Global Warming so theyre like bandaids for the environment. Both of them we explicitly worked on because they were a way to show that we could do Cost Effective geo Engineering Projects so the hurricane sink is just a giant tube made out a recycled truck tires that you stick in the ocean thats all there is to it but it causes the hot water to get pumped down a mixed up with the cold water below and that gets your cat 5 hurricanes down to 43 category 3 and so the cost of it is orders of magnitude less than the cost of the damage from hurricane right so these are these are technologies that we could do that are very simple they could buy a some time theyre not solutions they dont solve the problems with Global Warming what they do is they buy a some time to transition off of carbon emitting fuels and to transition to Better Technology for energy but thats all theyre good for and what we do is try to show that theyre possible and its going to take humans 10 or 20 years to figure out if thats the best idea we have so the internet mode of the light and the life that we actually leave in todays world is that we gave up our privacy completely for the sake of using a free product like g. Mail or instagram and founder and leader of the Free Software movement or stalin told me once that we have to sacrifice our confort and convenience a little bit for the sake of our freedom and privacy but if i have to give up Free Internet products that inconvenience in itself is under freedom to me so will it ever be possible for us to enjoy progress with privacy without having to bring our conference to the altar. Yeah and thats exactly one of the challenges right now is that we need to take control of these things ourselves and do them ourselves so it turns out you know. In the ninetys we had Online Services like a. O. L. Which were America Online in the u. S. We use this service for email and things as centralized service kind of like facebook. Where they controlled who could publish who could. Transact who you could talk to all those kinds of things and what happened is the internet which is a decentralized protocol t. C. P. Ip is a decentralized protocol managed to become. More useful vastly more a big quiz and it took over and put practically put a. O. L. Out of business right and the reason is is no one can control it right were all free to do what we want. All you got to do is connect to the internet and i can publish i can subscribe i can transact and you can do whatever you want i cant stop you and thats the beauty of decentralized protocols now because facebook and google gave us a lot of free stuff we ran into a big Walled Garden so now were in. The again where you know we gave up our privacy we gave up our freedom for all that all those free toys but the truth is theres not a lot of Real Technology behind most of these things right instagram isnt hard to build we could build our own decentralized instagram that has no ads and where we control the knobs that decide what we get to see theres no reason we cant build that and choose to use it its not expensive to do its just that you know people are too busy hanging out on instagram and not busy building a replacement but the technologies we use are all very democratized right the same software the same tool kits the same servers all the stuff that i use for the projects i work on you know kids in Elementary School in latin america and africa are getting access to more. And more and more you know a lot of stuff and the things that stallman is referring to those are open Source Technologies theyre made to be free and everybody gets access to them and thats what google built their stuff on thats what facebook built their stuff on open Source Technologies so we can go build alternatives any time we want and i think that doesnt mean that the day off is there is right now sat for you then done for me who has no idea how to build that technology. So yeah that still remains somewhat a problem for someone like me who has no clue how to start doing your own ensure graham or facebook will actually there are there are there are dozens of alternatives right now that already were built they dont have the user base of instagram or facebook but you can go sign up for them and use them for free you dont need to know anything about coding other people built those for you theyre not in the news theyre not making billions of dollars theyre not making anybody rich but they do the same thing with no ads for free and thats available people could choose to use them people are choosing instagram and i think thats the thing you know we need to understand there is personal responsibility here its not that instagram is being pushed on your facebook is being pushed on you you can choose Something Else theres plenty of alternatives there are just as good and theyre free and they dont take your privacy but people are still choosing instagram i see your point unfortunately thats all the time we have for today it was really interesting to wish i had a little more time to sort of. Feel so antagonistic today its good it makes up for a good interview so it was thanks a lot for for your thoughts and your insight and good luck with everything that you are doing and hopefully well talk some time said were talking to bob lets call him an inventor hacker and here is discussing solutions that technology can operative global problems of today and what should be done. Done so that technology doesnt become a problem in itself thats it for this edition of visionaries and ill see you next time. My name is stuck. On. This jack see what i dont see its a. Good border you know. When you know weve got. 2 cars and you need to move. Your. Skates and i use 6 make it very very easy to teach school on drugs used to people. Who people who close to clubs do really he. Said if the. Music. Is because he makes me happy. He does because he beats me and stopped playing moved to. And when you get to. The coffee spot. Sudar. Singh. I doubt. Is like that child in the room its impulsivity its narcissism its us versus them its fear the prefrontal cortex is empathy its compassion its thinking about the future in terms of what we do today thats where we need to make our decisions based from from the prefrontal cortex unfortunately when we eat the modern diet of our planet or when we watch the. Newser we spend too much time online we lock in to be a mega we lock in to the child in the room and were not able to make good decisions. This is from the water bottle phone in the stomach of the fish the brand is part of the Cocacola Company which sells millions of bottles of soda every day the idea was that lets tell consumers there are the bad ones there the litter bugs are throwing this away industry should be blamed for all this waste to company has long promised to reuse the plastic. On the. T. V. But for now the mountains of waste only grow higher. Today there are good and bad the bad news in the United States. The good. War in syria. And the u. S. Military were engaged in covert actions really throughout the world. Where they were assassinating populist leaders they were backing up right away military windows funding an army. Theres no. More because theres always a small income for a really good. Profit. Wiki leaks costs further down from the final report on an alleged chemical attack in the syrian city of duma last year in turn on documents that suggest a couple. Might have taken place. The Russian Military is state of the art ive been galled Missile System and just shoot. And 12 people are killed in a plane crash in kazakhstan dozens more are being treated in hospital. Well those are the headlines not safe for me andrew cuomo will be here next hour to take you through all the latest news from around the world. International