Boutiques and Office Building sand when the incident occurred at just after 6 pm people are just about says leave theyre all workplaces and go shopping once again theres a huge toy store here and had their sale and being more well flacco better word successful there would have been a lot more casualties right now what we do know is that sell one if a speech officer had been a killed by the assailant sent out 5 people were wounded and said theyre being treated at the hospital right now and according to the information that were getting our one of those people is a civilian and 4 people off from a Law Enforcement now the incident occurred like as said just after 6 pm when people were sitting in restaurants and to doing their shopping at the beginning. They. Didnt really understand what was happening because nobody expects this kind of thing to happen right in the center of a major capital and see if you looked at the previous footage she might have seen how people were laughing at said what was going on and said that it really understands whats below sounds war and the sounds were actually gunshots and so of course russia has a National Guard the police in Traffic Police were instrumental in helping the people get off the streets to clear the streets said there were Law Enforcement even though walking to nearby restaurants and asked the people to stay in and stayed away from the windows get the as far back into the restaurant past possible so as to prevent more. Casualties but of course it will live in the in in the in the air all fuss marshalls a cell phones and people have videos on their cell phones and of course they were filming everything that was going on im sure youve seen that footage shot already and of course so we here at r. T. He talked to a few people a few eyewitnesses that saw saw what was happening and now lets have a listen to what it said they had to say about what they saw. With them in a city in a basement who was around when a guy came and whod just been outside and he told us there was a shooting outside and also an injured possum he told us the engine house had been dropped into a cafe a 1st we dont know the details we were busy walk on obvious to handle iraq to you know. Carry stuff i can put up for the hopes of suppose that if as an hour and a half ago there were shots being fired and people came running down the street i was a horse of a time soon all the area was called not emotions that some people say they still see preventing in cross the street from the case he stood and it was frightening and really good even the bomb disposal teams were going to go its up and so was more afraid tony was. Now Russian Investigative Committee have launched a criminal inquiry into what happened here in the center of moscow and of course and a Investigation Team is are still working here at the scene you can see that the area is still kind of blocked off you can see theres still no access to. To the to the f. S. B. Building and of course still were still not sure of the motive of the shooter thats took the life of one of the f. S. B. Officers and im sure well get that from the Investigative Committee once they complete their investigation meanwhile the street here. As you can see transportation is a back on line the metro is working all their restaurants are open and people are walking about their business and everything is back to normal here in the center of the russian capital appreciate iran cusser on the scene for us i thank you. Lets bring in political analyst nicol of the initiative the see and appreciate coming on weve got a correspondent outside the f. S. B. Headquarters a lot of speculation of course at this point because we dont know why they sell and carried out this attack but just in general talking about the building and its connections former k. G. B. H. Q. Now out of the next Security Service f. S. B. Is it an obvious target overflew a very well defended what is it an obvious target for anyone no its not an obvious target and definitely this is a symbolic attack against one of the russians or most known institutions or the federal Security Service is growing as you said for the next t. V. Building this is very well known place right in the center of moscow and become interesting when its in the center. Very known position and it is a symbol of the russian state so i think that for me of course we dont know who is the perpetrator of the attack and we have to be careful with any kind of speculation but definitely this is something i think we didnt choose that place and that building. By about hazard and theres difference and purpose or so maybe i do all that you can im speaking can think that is definitely. The case and this night shooting. You surprised to hear about someone with a. A rifle of this reportedly like a kalashnikov lot rifle taking all the shit. Well defended building such as the f. S. B. Headquarters and i can say is well defended because this shootout was over pretty pretty quickly and its not easy to gain a. Handgun or a rifle in russia had a pretty thorough background checks for anybody who wants one usually suspend the sporting world for hunting purposes so i just wondered what you thought about that so i definitely think that that was probably one of the best guarded man on the whole planet soul for sure the person who probably knew what was that she was or what he was expecting im quite surprised if you think that this was somebody who wanted notoriety or wanted to attack a symbol because it was quite obvious from the beginning that that person had very limited chances of succeeding in anything at least getting inside that building it is of course quite surprising i dont think that these scenes are very people and hundreds must go no used to these kind of scenes guns are not easily bought in russia but unfortunately anyplace there is also always a black market and its. Unfortunately true that it is possible for somebody whos really really motivated and. Specific go to find such a such a weapon it is extremely surprising that that kind of weapon is used on the streets of moscow so thats why i think that person is really extremely motivated and maybe probably has some sort of absolute on background or some ideological background because why then attack such a taurus building with such a powerful gun. And just perhaps are just sick of killing people anythings possible but i really doubt it. Is it still easy to clearly define terrorism if we look back decades to maybe people thought terrorism that was a religious or political motivation is it is still to categorize if we look at people who a teenager might walk into a skillet and shoot lots of people someone who just wants to go out in a blaze of glory. Well someone who is mentally ill and wants to take people down with the can we clearly define these things youre right i think it definitely is difficult to claim what is specifically terrorism today there are just different is a lot of terrorism going on but there was a lot of terrorism also before kind of western europe in the seventys and eightys these were periods where there are people more terrorism then there was today a lot of people do have access to guns i think its probably maybe easier to have access to powerful guns today and it can also obviously be. Some lone wolf depressed person or somebody who definitely mentally ill sick which is going out for something that. Last attack or last nights show before before dying in a sort of an easy way to i would say to commit suicide because you talk in that room thats the definite songis thats where its going to and for that for that person by going out shooting people cannot say at this stage if it is a terrorist attack and definite terrorist attack would be politically religiously motivated and at this stage we cant say if the person who carried this attack tonight west motivated by any sort of a you know that your religion or she was just somebody it was who were the nguni who got caught out of a gun owner who wanted to go kill people because he enjoyed killing or if he wanted to see what type of a sensations hed get by people at this stage we can define what was the nature of this attack and what were the motivations so we have to be careful in speculation about. This is now it is unfortunately its less difficult its just easy to define also previously in 3 previous years there would be political organizations which would quite rapidly train the attack and we have at the same time when there was an attack we have a political or religious organization saying well we were the ones who perpetrated this will be more than once we had this and we would claim nori for the acts and so on so which person there was such a person we dont have such information at this stage show of course we have to be cautious we got reports of theres at least one civilian member of the public is injured as a. Results of the shooting. Even though you said that there is a difference surely from the publics perspective the gap is closing between the old School Definition of terrorism what we see today because from the public suspected they just say someone on the street with a weapon often a gun trying to kill them trying to get people around them in that sense what can be done in terms of disarming people in that scenario whether its someone with a Mental Illness or whether it is someone with political or religious motivation because we see attacks with guns we see in britain even if people havent got guns its still causing all kinds of chaos just with knives and thats not even mentioning homemade explosives is there anything you can can do to to disarm them its i think its impossible for somebody whos an extremely motivated whatever the reason will find a way to kill people dont forget that one of the most terrible terrorist attacks in the past years was a person who got a hold of a truck and rammed through a demonstration on the frenchs pass through there on the 14th of july killing over 80 people so this is that after the same. Thing to do with with guns or knives or explosives this has to do with this side there were a lot of people are saying that they can a lot of people extremist people. Will think they can get their issue solved the could advance their political agenda by going out and telling people and whatever the region it is terrorism because at the end they are killing we are scaring people theyre picking terror into the centers of the town and whether this is for their own personal views or for our Political Organisation theyre scaring people this not just a question of for guns out of this is a problem with people inside me who are really meant to sit and think that the only way that because all the problems is by going out and killing people and if you take all the guns out of the streets they still find a way in this stage of society from going out killing people unfortunately that unfortunately. This doesnt happen every day on the streets of moscow so i think we have to be quite happy that this is this is unfortunate since a very terrible incident but that this is something which remains quite rare. In the studio alongside neal here weve covered obviously the blood boundaries of modern day terrorism and also you know Mental Health as a very salient topic of the day but what about sort of media social media the sort of 24 hour news cycle that some analysts have raised you know these people whether whatever motive there may have whether its a possible drugs or mental problem some sort of political motivation they know that theyre going to get a huge amount of attention get it quickly and its going to be there for a while and maybe today weve had so much news coming in a nation a lot of sort of false reports mistaken eyewitness accounts initially saying there was 3 attackers then there was one you know all these different very different accounts and in a day when anybody is a citizen journalists everybody has a smartphone they can be millions of images across the world in just a few seconds that really does feed in obviously to some of these motivations that people may want to have that they want that attention they want to go out in a blaze of glory they want to be spoken about do you think that could be a contributing factor to the increasing number of these sorts of attacks. Yes definitely it is because by doing this people know they will get the attention they were looking for that they were not getting but they were alive and before the attacks in any case and that they know that this is their occasion of going down in history for terrible reasons for nefarious reasons but these they know that they will go to that attention on the other hand the media Start Talking about people going out in the center of towns killing people i think this is not this is not a good solution either because this is something quite terrible it is a sin something which fortunately doesnt happen every day on the streets of moscow but i do think that media has to cover this because this is something which is dangerous and which is which is terrible which people want to know whats going on they want to know how they would be protected in these weeks years to come and obviously a lot of people want to know if this is politically related this could be years or so its only going to. A relief for glorious somebody who just mentally all of this can be so many part of a political terrorist a. Religious organization. Doing a message to one of the biggest institutions or the russian state which is a quote very powerful nation on earth so i mean people want to know about this and i think it is then unfortunately these are i would say the backdrop suppose such a situation but it is important that people be informed on what happened exactly and we just cant put this under the rug and say that this is a minor incident and amuses you for this is what you just heard. Right and which is where were just for it which is frightening people then we have to we have to cover this unfortunately modern day new social network and new zealand give all the information but it is difficult this is an emergency situation urgent situation in the 1st hours its impossible to get all the hard information. Here so this comes with the info but i think its better to have much input than not if we go with you analysis my guess is america which political analyst thank you thank you i see that only hawkins alongside me over the last few years weve been trying to compile the key pieces information and weve got it established now one assailant killed in the. Process of the assault one f. S. B. Employee killed and how many victims are we are now in terms of injuries yet minister of health in fighting 5 people treated at the scene taken to local hospitals for their injuries one of them at least in a Critical Condition that 2nd f. S. B. Employee lot of contradictory information coming out in the 1st 45 minutes hour of that initially saying 3 attackers multiple weapons explosives that really goes to show you know some of the key points that our guest made that i mean the sort of incident as they say is very unusual for Moscow Russia has suffered its share of terrorism in the past and may wish major cities bombings that septra separatism and islamic fundamentalism in the. South of the caucasus but this type of attack on this type of target is very rare terrorism again this hasnt been officially confirmed by the f. S. B. Theyre still looking into it but the boundaries of violence whatever that may be heard without me may be motivated of blood Mental Health becoming increasingly issue to the forefront of a lot of these attacks and these some of the most terrible attacks in the United States for example have been carried out by people with personal grudges or with Mental Health issues not by terrorists and again as we just said earlier the role of media of social media the responsibility you have to filter out what is a very intense wave of information of whiteness accounts so its interesting to say i think this is a this is a situation you just described the way the information i think its a little were actually losing at the moment because from my experience now its becoming increasingly difficult its taken longer to establish the the essence of what has happened in an incident like this because of all the fog that is out there coming from members of the public maybe well meaning but misguided would love the information theyre putting out there sure and i think the Media Journalists member of the public Security Services they are under increasing pressure to provide answers to provide information to provide what people want to know here and now and immediately yet given they sometimes make mistakes were all humans are all final there then subject to criticism if they provide the wrong information or even the right emotion to slowly often find itself between a rock and a hard place enemies sorts of terrible incidents which people get find themselves in where they hear gunfire his shooting are told to run to hide they dont know whether theyre going to live or die you know people can be excused for often providing the wrong sort of accounts i mean just looking at these pictures coming in we can look at them once again any want for themselves in that sort of situation could be forgiven perhaps for panicking and jumping to some solutions this is. The video from the incident just a few hours ago. Sorry to interject there because some of the videos that we we are using of from people who have since the film they filmed it themselves it takes time you very fire as much as you can and you believe its credible in the some of the stuff out there theres less credible its very hard to verify and i think the scenario weve got is that the the officials there are quite slow to confirm anything you know definitively because theyll be thinking well how does this affect our investigation is going to affect the public how they view whats happening in their and their emotions were social media its instant isnt it within seconds youve got these videos out there and flooding the market in all of the different media agencies are looking to use them if they can give an opportunity well indeed and you know in a sense social media and News Agencies you know we like to think that were at the forefront of that new news stream the 1st ones to get that information we know whats going on was actually were sort of playing catch up to start with are what we because the Security Service is no better right now whats going on i mean right now theres probably an investigation well the recent discussion already on the way this probably raids being planned they probably know then that of the attack already lost their communications we on the other hand can only speculate at this point and as Charles Schumer said earlier its informed speculation maybe people that are well meaning that have had experience in this but we dont know until we get a full picture from official sources and you know despite having many witness accounts of whats going on that picture wont be complete until the confirmation takes place but that people will say whoa maybe some people watching will why are you speculating you know you shouldnt be doing that but to counter that i would say well if you dont talk about the different possibilities you could very dangerous for which. Soil its because it officials are being very careful establishing what happened and theyre saying nothing you get this voids where people will just speculate anyway so avoid is maybe worse than anything i guess were trying to cover all the bases in some way well absolutely you have to cover all angles all possibilities and have a balance picture of what could have been the motivations the reasons and the causes of any such tragic effect and of course we have witness accounts from the scene which as we said showed the panic the fear that people have on such occasions and once again you know youre working with very limited information with information in a rapidly developing situation its often hard to put a clear picture across this is some of the witness accounts we heard earlier from the scene. Could you actually had a minute or 2 by 6 i was leaving work you know i dont like staying at work late so i left work met up with my girlfriend and when they heard some dull sounds in the distance i thought at 1st it was fireworks or some firecrackers yet as the sound continued we realized something was wrong other Traffic Police who were on the connecticut bridge as usual began evacuating people to shit barely caught on to what was going on people started running we heard the gunfire so i had to decide if it would look better to leave that area in case it was a terrorist attack. This is one thing i do think is really valuable the contribution coming from the public is better than the actual footage that they film is speaking to the director because you get the raw emotion the sense of what it was like for them and certainly in experiences like this you realize just how terrifying it was for some of them absolutely and you know we have our eyes on the ground isnt an option i said earlier maria is the location wrong course if you know looking at the is the dynamic the energy there the mood whats going on you know better than what we can hear or that of our camera crews can but at the end of the day you do have to wait for that puzzle to be fully complete before you can give a really a we have a clear picture to the viewers could only been in the studio with this for quite a few hours i think a very short break appreciate preshared all the information you brought us. The guests busy in the analysis coming in we have been discussing terrorism or not terrorism expert david lo noted that lone wolf attacks are in particular hard to defend against. The head of any Counterterrorism Police or any have those Security State security they will tell you its virtually impossible to stop everyone especially you have an individual if theyve not been in the system all that not been assessed is a great risk of that being in the system were acting on their own initiative its very hard but what we are seeing what we are seeing hope is making it very very difficult for organized cells to operate i mean one example in the u. K. Was the my. Yes the bombing but he did not work on his own he had other individuals and its views get harder and harder for them to operate on a no not just in the u. K. And though in other states around europe a number of plots are actually being prevented ji due to the work of the Security Service and Counterterrorism Police because theyve got to communicate with each other beyond an individual who is inspired by what they see online my messages and they are acting alone and they have a very very difficult to try and prevent those attacks and we see it again globally there might be a Higher Police presence in certain areas that been identified as a potential risk of i mentioned one squared before you know you got same basils cathedral the kremlin and so old they are very popular and you know they be looking that perhaps increase their physical presence also brocks being analyzed again what intelligence states is there and see if we can make any links and what may come out is to look at this individually once they identify this individual look these premises look at what hes been looking online there may be some links there and we just dont know. The suspect under the terrorism expert Peter Williams he thinks that reports that this could be a terrorist attack are indeed highly likely. It looks like the alleged perpetrator in that case that he chose an opportunity when he was in the capital when he was in an iconic location i also understand today was a fairly lengthy and of the year Media Conference by the president s now those 2 facts the location being the headquarters of the security said it was in russia and the fact that theres a lot of Media Coverage globally of the president s Media Conference that this individual all these people taken the opportunity and sold their full it strikes me as that they are russian interior are quite right to deal with this as a terror attack terrorist groups i want to global forcing which is the reasons why they can they carry out these attacks in iconic locations because they are sending a message to their supporters globally so the way to go here is to enhance in sell it and that is what we call Counter Intelligence and that is the best way to downgrade any terrorist Group Social Media on those. All the types of florens is where the Security Services can focus their. Efforts in in trying to obviously pick up the chatter and prevent you know any sort of terrorist attack again i can only speak for the United Kingdom no weve been particularly successful in that regard assisted doing that bill walton makes it difficult is the fact what we call the low level attacks where people use the eccles all knives theyre the ones which are almost very impromptu and they are very difficult in order to stop when trucks see whats going on. Appreciate you joining us here. For the attack in central moscow john hawkins has been alongside me several hours keeping us right up to date you can take a well and break i will be reading no join me for updates on the all top story in 3 minutes. Is your media a reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe. Isolation community. Are you going the right way or are you being that. Way. What is true what is faith. In a world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Aura made in the shallowness. During the Great Depression which im old enough to remember there was most of my family were unemployed working class there wasnt it was bed you know much worse objective listen today but there was an expectation the things were going to get better. There was a real sense of hopefulness there isnt today todays america where shape my the 10 principles of concentration of wealth and power. Reduced democracy attack solo down engineer elections manufacture consent and other principles according to no on chomsky one set of rules for the rich opposite. To the. What happens when you put her into the hands of a narrow searcher of will switch will is dedicated to increasing power for chills just as youd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization of america. In the troubled 19 seventies a group of killers rampage 3 cups of Northern Ireland that was coordinated loyalist attacks protect the only population in belfast tens of thousands were forced to flee their homes come up with strike and put these attacks was that the r. U. C. The Police Actually took part in the attacks so instead of preventing it they were active participants in the burning of full streets in belfast at the time more than a 100 innocent civilians were in ludovic as the review can seniors found out more i was surprised about the extent and its occurrence which the collusion was involved in some of those cases the killers would later be named into the net and were getting i think it went to the very very top i think it is for all the water where all the taste since you bought was going on and give the go ahead. Argentina love it this country is phantasmagorical that people are extraordinary the government and the central bank maybe not so much thinking of the central bank but lets get into the thought of more day tell. One person. Has been killed in a shooting near the federal Security Service building in central moscow witnesses have described the attack. At 5 or 10 minutes past 6 the gunfire began and it was not just a few shots that came in bursts we saw officers taking cover behind the car as. The newly released footage reportedly shows the shooter at the moment of the attack police say the assailant acted alone the shooters identity has still to be confirmed