Off common rules when we should see question a good excuse me is the partiality of regulators in my experience and television right through my career it doesnt matter what you call them the independent Broadcasting Authority independent Television Authority off home whatever. Their own power shall attain their own stablished on partiality is the is is an issue that is seldom address but isnt the point that the regulates it and certainly the law is that britains most biggest independent television station recognise that you personally are not an impartial journalist perhaps not so i dont know but the lawyers i know were perfectly happy with my film was combed by lawyers and and they did by and large very constructive job actually of of saying well that might be difficult to say that could be a liability issue there and so on and so theres nothing different about this documentary than previous documentaries into the sense that you still get the other side is close enough thats whats different about it action its close to home it was about the National Health service the National Health service even more even more than bricks it touches everybody in this country and. In my view it should have been the major issue that moved people during the Election Campaign now the fact that my program wasnt shown on. The countrys biggest television. Commercial Television Network and europes biggest Television Network. Is down to the power of a regulator i mean what is the power what power does that regulate to have. Is that a power on behalf of you was or is it a power on behalf of of of of powerful forces within this country in my experience over the years thats the latter. I want to get to the issues in the film the weekly you do interview those who favor the privatization of the n. H. S. In this in the break were not like youre doing a one sided yields as a journalist. I dont and i never do one side to job thats pointless journalism there is so much one sidedness in journalism and socalled mainstream journalism there is if you like a huge imbalance in journalism. One looks at the b. B. C. Coverage of the last election for an example of that and so much else right through the tabloids and they rather crude partisanship thats not journalism journalism is is taking is investigating something and then taking it to those responsible and saying what you have to say about this but not only that challenging them and having the knowledge to be able to talent challenge them not just blustering them. Blustering thats considered you know what to do come thats not thats not a challenge thats not journalism and thats what these programs to i hope thats what they set out to do and i hope thats what the power is in the 1st thing by as johnson said on winning power was to emphasize the extra funding this conservative government will be putting into the National Health service tell me about how youll field explains how many seems to leak away even if there is extra funding for the National Health service well. It it leaks away because it goes into Management Consultants lets take a prime example in 2014. Something like well i may be very well but 350000000. 00 a year was spent i think it may be 600. 00 beds but thats the ballpark were talking about that was spent on Management Consultants now that figure youll never get those figures from the department of help because they dont produce those figures well they produce them individually for trusts. That came in from the only comprehensive study done by the university of bristol and the university of bristol in that study also found that right throughout the n. H. S. That wherever Management Consultants were involved. The they the situation was less efficient than other words management becomes the the the influence of Management Consultants was negative and destructive and for that the taxpayer pays 100. 00 hundreds of millions of pounds and the example of the kind of corporatism. But runs now runs straight through what was a very simple idea that a publicly funded Health Service would be would come out of the treasury would go to Health Authorities they would be in a range move with g. P. S. And the costs would be kept down that wasnt right back in the beginning when the Health Service was founded by bevan there wasnt any talk of Management Consultants or the kind of corporate manager real culture that is rife throughout the n. H. S. I mean at one point the department of health didnt have a single original Civil Servant and they had all come through the revolving door from the Health Industry from the private Health Industry so you have you have a complete contamination if you like from the from from the private private health care and private health care was there for one thing gunday and that is the satisfied shareholders and 2 to make a profit whatever they say we dont make a profit says branson yes that may be true on the books unless we dig down into the tax haven in the British Virgin islands and try and sort out what this Company Actually does but thats what private health care does now. Up to 2 weeks ago. Something like 15000000000 pounds worth of of n. H. S. Money went to private health care contractors and that is old new since the health and social care act of 2012 which opened the gates. Open the floodgates to privatization this 2012 act you talk about in the film is being so central the conservatism of liberal democrats were in power but you say built on tony blair as the labor party privatization contract of n. H. S. Is the. Blaze labor blair is merely responsible for accelerating the whole idea of privatisation within the Health Service much more then the than the early even the early tories that the idea of well was more than an idea they the commitment. To take back the Health Service from Public Ownership goes right back to the seventys when factor was preparing for power and one of her most closest advisors Nicholas Ridley of far right he said he wrote a paper saying that all industries all publicly funded just recently the Health Service. Should be returned to private ownership as he put it by stealth footage of Boris Johnson in palm mint talking about the need for Health Insurance within a few hours of the Election Results we had tories talking about it i should say Richard Branson would deny any tax regularities and also presumably look talking about irregularities with brands that hes acting perfectly within the law are going to move to yes Simon Stevens the head of n. H. S. England just because he was once at United Health care in the United States does that automatically mean that he favors a Health Insurance system style here which is shown i should say in the film. Is the fact that simon seaven spent 10 years climbing the ladder of one of the most repay shuras Health Insurance companies in the world united of health the biggest one with a notorious reputation. That doesnt mean to say dont know simon think those hasnt or is reputation but it was he was it he was there for 10 years. He was he was committed to. That companys it also be very strange they would be paid in vast amounts of money and keep him there for 10 years and promoting him to the president of Global Health for united thats when the cameron government cope Coalition Government brought him back to be. To be head of of n. H. S. And some. Hes represented that and i tease england very well i dont know i do know but during the Coalition Period part of which Simon Stevens was in charge has been in charge of the health in england the most devastating cuts have taken place so i must say that stevens himself has pleaded for an end to them weve got down to now. Bought in the last. In the last year or so 17000 i may not be exactly right on this Something Like 70000 beds lost is now the lowest capacity. And when you think we have a population of 60000000 going back to 948 when the Health Service began with a much smaller population they were they were approaching 400000 folks 4500000 beds and now theyre all but 130000 beds for. 4 for a population well over 60000000 scandalous john ill stop you there more from jump and the dirty war on the n. H. S. As well as the general election after this break. I had a spiritual experience. And i had a little girl that died in the fire sent there collins. Were looking for. Something long 54 years old its been 21 years on death row. For a crime i didnt commit. Only to do business in. Earnest that nobody does. You know your. Trial was pretty much a farce. We already had him guilty before that. People. Are free to. Forgive himself for something. I knew she was there and i knew exactly what i was doing. People like. Sometimes there is no explanation. All of us will hopes it has been able to learn from the babies but say its a behavior that appears even in deaf and blind babies even if youve never heard of. Tickles by your parents. And then we learn how to use this in a more complex way im one of the things that we. Had to join in with laughter contagiously to laugh and even if you dont know why theyre laughing. Welcome back im still with john pilger whose film the dirty war on the n. H. S. Was finally screened in britain days after the general election. And hes going to recruit more nurses within days of his election victory the 1st Overall College nursing strike happened in Northern Ireland it should be said. In your film you show what its Like Health Care in the United States. Thats and that horton part of tell me about what it was like to film there and what is the relevance for people in britain to show the kind of images in your film but the film i in the United States is has 2 parts on the 1st part very important i think its based on interviews. With people whove had experience direct experience in the system that according to their own sources. To the to the source of the medical industry in the United States insurance industry. Effectively leave Something Like 87000000 people out of the system that is they have enough and sure they have insurance or the insurance hasnt enough what they call in america deductibles that is. Excess charges on it and they simply cant afford it. And Something Like and this is a very minimal figure. At least 20000. 00 people die because they cant get treatment on the system in the end not to states theres no as one of the interviewees more every year and in every year every year every year theres no as one of the interviewees in my film says theres no as you have in this country this country she says theres no foundation of value and she warns if you lose that youll never get it back she said we in the United States and never had now we went to. Why is in virginia right in the middle of appalachian former coalmining part of the United States where people live the rather precarious life the and many of them extremely unwell the health facilities. Relatively. Very poor. And every year wise alone comes an extraordinary Organization Call rand rip remote area medical its like a pop up n. H. S. It offers free care basically free what we have in britain told yes its about examining the n. H. S. I describe it in the film as the n. H. S. Comes to town for a few days and people to watch people drive from all over the country they drive interstate they sleep in their cars i interview people in their cars waiting they are then given a number and shortly before sunrise the numbers of read out and in they go and they go for. The most basic things dental abscesses that people of had for years but im going to say in the mining towns of this country as you know the general election the foam appeared towns they voted for Boris Johnson against the Jeremy Corbin project which wanted to reintroduce free dental care and reduce the number of a ties to contract element within the National Health service why do you think that i cant explain that but i can say that. There was. A democratic referendum in this country in 2016 and it was won by those wishing to leave the European Union and almost from the minute. After that election there was a Massive Campaign to do not the legitimacy of that democratic referendum and the whole issue of bricks and then failing to bizarrely but very significantly into the hands of the extreme right in britain. Of which the Prime Minister is is one i can only guess that people who voted to leave the European Union for all kinds of reasons. Felt that their voice had been treated with contempt as indeed it was in many ways there was a class war. And why as somebody said to me the other day the poor should vote for more poverty the sick should vote for more sickness i cant answer that question but that certainly happened you see statement aged media saying follow be it from being of the right these were people voting against the kind of right wing policy of anti semitism from jeremy cool but that is what the story were getting from the b. B. C. Is they didnt like it on the doorstep the well similar story you get from the b. B. C. Is not to be believed and theres plenty of evidence why it should not people lead. However theres no question that the whole question of anti semitism. By and large a bogus issue and not only bogus issue accusing somebody like jeremy koeppen of being anti semitic or even others of being anti semitic. That he perhaps some wisely explain to. Expelled from the labor party was just absurd and it became an issue thats that says something about today that where so consumed by this thing that that propaganda it used its called whatever you want to call of fake or whatever but that was that was the most brilliantly success successful piece of propaganda and one political work and i dont think the labor party fought it. Because in the United States obviously its absurd calling Bernie Sanders an anti semite hes family died in the holocaust then visitors who have a danger out how should he how should they be able to learn from germany corbins response when he said that isabella gages as regards the body sound as i am pain when it comes at them because it does what should they what should they learn they have to stand up and oppose it they have to resist but after they have to understand that there are powerful Political Forces but do not want them to take power democratically its resisting something that is false and the public has a right to know the truth about will through criticisms of the b. B. C. The director general lord hall very quick after the election to defend his journalist and actually saying that that social Media Companies should do more to tackle criticism of the b. B. C. On social media because theres been a lot of laura kerns with the Political Editor and the Electoral Commission or talking about the police being involved with alleged bias from her and breaking the law or of a ghost of shes only part of a system she wouldnt be in that system as noam chomsky once famously said a measure did that. So theres nothing out of the extraordinary report she has done particularly but the whole system and then for whole to come around and now to the. Point to the easy one the social media when the b. B. C. Is probably the most. Powerful refined propaganda system in the world. Nothing like it. Now whether its weighed you know its we have to be careful listing all the excuses. The labor party sure contributed to their own electoral demise theres no question about that but the fact that they had that one side in the Election Campaign had powerful establishment forces. Especially the mater arranged against them is extremely important to understand when clearly as you say wasnt just the media but when shadow jones the german goal was interviewed the example andrea love when madonna was talking about the media do you think journalists dont understand supermarkets multinationals spend billions of dollars on trying to create a mood to support their products and in the same way media go i mean the fact that andrew neil is considered some kind of. B b b b c. I call him is amazing those of us who remember him as murdochs. Editor of the sunday times and there is hes on the state broadcaster as. As as you must be interviewed by him if youre running for Prime Minister. That almost in itself tells us all we really know about. Because by us within the p. P. C. Joining the election cycle when brandished this leaked document about n. H. S. N. H. S. Deals with the United States and very quickly we had it within the british media that this could have emanated from russia you know what do you what did you make of all the breakfast emanated from russia of the sky emanated from russia the rain emanated from russia its eyes of i joke but it is rather grotesque now. And ive read some of those documents what they say is is devastating i wish germany called one another as it made much more of that you have. A department of International Trade official obviously a senior official not a junior official as they tried to say. And the u. S. Trade representative talking to each other and the. Look just be patient all sorts of promises have to be my now brackets in the Election Campaign but later on there shouldnt be a problem absolute just duplicity duplicity thats how power works and thats why thats why julie in a song and with the leaks. Have been talk about it. Because they have revealed that on the side of power i should say that doctors in australia of course are now warning of his serious deterioration of his health in a london prison but im going to ask you about. In the early days of the johnson government how people should interpret it when they keep talking about the peoples government they are going to work for the working class is the new constituency they are going to localize democracy what do they really mean well that you see these. Propaganda terms if you go back to edward burn eyes the father of modern Public Relations here invented the term Public Relations as a respectable word for propaganda and even ok gerbils but the british were much better out of their gerbils. Using good words such as peoples democracy even democracy reform you look at all the corporate words that are propaganda now drained of them aiding the word reform i used to be very positive poor is no longer opposed to poor. Or all the birds that you mention im just making this wider point because. There is a task for people now is to try on the code the propaganda that theyre getting because thats propaganda and just finally in your latest film you actually delve into that the misuse of language and the power of these low b. Firms just near as apollo meant yes well unknown to most of the public. Around the houses of parliament. The offices of socal think tanks lobbyists and professional propagandists all of them with one target the National Health service theyre actually clustered around the department of health and theres a revolving door between them and palm and and the department of health. But they they they use they have a cabaret is is a deceitful one the used words like reform. Partnership. None of these positive. Have any real meaning anymore what they may buy reform is is privatizing and destroying. But they would deny that but theyve created this extraordinary for cabaret as theyve created their own persona they hope of legitimacy. Because they have some been a now people within parliament and so many people from the private Healthcare Industry in that apartment and the top and of health they feel they can get away with this this is brought to get out this is modern corporatism it how it works its its its greatest and least understood weapon is propaganda john pilger thank you if you thats in a special edition of going underground you can see johns film that he wore in the n. H. S. On the whole been britain in a 100 in the new year see you on saturday for us Season Finale with full force and. The partisan impeachment process against donald trump continues apace the framers of the constitution warned the impeachment of the chief executive was an extreme remedy are the democrats and the Corporate Media trivializing the impeachment process are they attempting to short circuit democracy itself. How gloating is the debate gets underway in the lower house of whether to impeach president trying. A new poll shows brits are losing their faith in the b. B. C. Journalists are no longer prospered. Under. Threat and criminal prosecution against employees of the Russian News Agency pressuring them to cut ties with their parent company