Transcripts For RT CrossTalk 20240713

Are. Youre watching our international be back at the top of the hour with more news. Hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered im Peter Lavelle the u. K. General election with a predicted large majority this would be the biggest majority for the tories since the days of Margaret Thatcher and labours were showing in about 80 years it would seem getting breaks it done did the trick this is a big win for bojo but is it for the u. K. Crosstalk in the u. K. General election im joined by my guest john white and bro hes a political commentator and writer in london we have much fire saying hes a candidate for the u. K. Parliament fund manager and author also in london we cross who he is a Professor Emeritus of International History at the London School of economics are across the uk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate mitch let me go to you 1st in london what happened to the polls told us something very differently going into this here i have to say in my opinion from my distant perch to be honest i found both the tories and labor ran a lackluster campaigns but i have to admit one thing is that took the tory message get briggs it done did resonate because i still i dont even remember what the the labor slogan was it was that muddy a muddled and vague ok why this result and Bojo Boris Johnson the sitting Prime Minister must be a very happy man go ahead mich. You know i think there are a lot of interesting components to what happened today i mean you know i was on campaign on the campaign trail for probably 5 or 6 months going into this with the braids of party and getting braids it done was an Important Message that boris got out the problem that we had was braggs exhaustion and people didnt want to hear about braggs yet the bigger issue was after 3 and a half years like 1278 days ago. The 17400000 of the country voted to leave and 75 percent of the parliamentarian said we really dont care what you voted and were going to usurp democracy and not let you have brags it and then boris came up with a bunch of sharp soundbites like im going to get braids it done im going to do it right away im going to die in a ditch he didnt die in a ditch he didnt get braids it done on october 31st hes made a lot of promises and his latest ones were that got him over the line were we have a new oven baked braggs it deal now a couple of things that i would say about that his deal is not new its 95 percent to reason mays terrible treaty its not ready its half baked and its not brags that its for current form so i you know i think that those are the topics we can start out with and you know if you want to get into into the weeds on what happened with the election i can get into as much detail as you like with the strategies but nigel farage handed the tory party 317. 00 seats we actually diminished labors seats and we got rid of pretty much the liberal democrats ok so what are. The lets look at the results here i mean is this a protest vote because it is unprecedented here i mean and how do we explain labors utter devastating defeat in this Election Year i mean this were going back to the 1930 s. Here with this kind of result how do you explain it alan go ahead in london. Well i think there are 2 reasons 1st of all colgan had no coherent policy on prexy it didnt want say were useful or against and people didnt want the results of the referendum to be implemented secondly his policies the sort of neo muxes marxist leninist a view of the economy we see it is absolutely frightening or uncritical. People didnt pay much attention to it in this ought to backfire and probably ruin the economy so. While strongs the economic front and the bricks of crud and nobody was willing to listen to him luncheon he ended up with his daughter coming for labor which goes back to about 19th or trying to take issue with the 1st speaker though about the book support it should never have Student Election Campaign Promises were holo and if it didnt cross the loop. Is ended up giving liberal seats the conservatives and the brics a conservative party should have go all sold just an ego trip by the leader not true then the luck will not be consigned to history ok i will talk a little bit about that later in the program john jump in here how do you explain this outcome here because i tend to think too that i want to talk about how the media framed this entire election because i think the media but its thumb on the scales as usual go ahead john. Well peter the result of this election entirely goes to whether carbons message of what his mission is the condition of working class people did not have to be part of the tree of hell that cruelty did not have to be a virtue of compassion of race after 10 years of tourist entity where that message mellish to penetrate before google motion surrounding but actually east particularly in northern and little ins. Are marginal was unfortunate for him and for his supporters it did not resonate but when you consider you have to know but john gell but why didnt it resonate i think thats an important why didnt it resonate because basically Boris Johnson was running on almost a decade of tory rule so this should have been a change election but it wasnt explained that go ahead joe well i differ from your. Rock itoshi dont break shit carbons course of bricks it was the most politically and intellectually honest of any party because it started with the recognition of the country was split on rimadyl 52 percent vs 40 percent wanted and needed 2016 you referendum but breaks emotional bricks it was far more powerful than a carbon and rebar actually recognised because its a question of identity its a question of what it means to be british its a question of democracy and also and this is something that is very important every saying you of that rancid to reestablish was brought to be hit against Corporate Media Political Security and economic but it was to us every single day the character assassination this man has been so great to have been known for if you do its not remarkable that he would go down to such a crushing defeat in this election ok alan you wanted to Say Something there do you agree or disagree with what you just heard from john go ahead eleanor colberts policy it was thought to be ridiculous i mean he said he wouldnt go sit at deal which the e. U. Didnt want to renegotiate he said he would then put in a rigged referendum to the people but he wouldnt actually back the deal. Theyre a friend to move. But he had most to be said to get school peter. Which isnt into literally owns this is stupid and again you know the reason why the. Us wouldnt believe his claims all. He wants that. Came in through the mess the little book or to lift the cup to did 2015 so 2010 and any labor leader goes to the cup shouldnt britain with a leftwing muxes call this all was ready to be defeated havent much food happened to. The british people im interested in will end up communism ok go ahead jump in youre about to Say Something oh yeah i think yeah i think thats a bit i think thats a bit of an oversimplification and i would disagree with alans point mostly on on the way that he said the things rolled out nigel farage is the only reason why we had a referendum to begin with the bigger problem is we dont have democracy in the united we dont have democracy i didnt interrupt you so let me let me speak we dont have democracy in the United Kingdom we have an old darky the problem with corbins platform was he was offering free stuff and it just wasnt credible at all whatsoever and if you look at all of the things that they were offering it would have run the economy into a ditch a lot faster than boriss the reason why we had austerity was because it back in 2008 the bank of england decided to bail out our banks and thats when the currency dropped 34 percent so thats why we have austerity because they cut back on the spending and thats why they cut the police force by 22000 thats why they implemented all these other cuts and then you have an increase youve got an increase in the population and a decrease in the services so thats going to end in disaster and then they. Media kept pounding and pounding away crash out brags it no deal brags it yet crash out brags it brags it brags it so people were fed up and exhausted and he came up with the perfect soundbite created in america get brags it done im going to get it done its oven baked so they just said ok get it done and get it off the plate lets move forward the problem and a bigger issue is hes promised a magnificent economic recovery which is just not going to happen and people are going to realize down the road i dont know if there is a year when he did default on his promises again here well hes not going to talk about the promises in the 2nd half of the program here john i want to make it very clear on this program and i want to hear it from you do you think how do you feel the media treated labor and jerry during this campaign because it looked like one smear after another ok and it looks like again they had their thumb on the scale go ahead john well lets. Lets go to talk lets go to john admiral go ahead john demonization of the enemy corporate has been impressed. Even worse than any. Liberal leader including how to wilson the 74 we have usually dont be aware of those who talk with that was a lot to actually talk will i dont watch a. Lot of ballots into their Prime Minister and chicago who go even worse treatment than this he was treated to a real enemy of the people stuff and to the press he was seen as an enemy within the spacious camp. Depend to him is an anti semite a lot meant tending jamey quakerish socialist was depicted as the 2nd coming of rain hard it should the media she rejected because it was utterly despicable over these past 2 years it was incitement and despite us movies of people still supported the actual need for me to wonder is that equal as many was as he received in this election but let me just caution the union jack weaving room. Down books or so on but years from celebrating too much because as i speak pizza chain of Scottish Independence has already led ok ok now i would i want you to hold on i want you to hold on to that thought because thats exactly what i want to do in the 2nd part of the program all right gentlemen were going to go to a short break and after that short break but theres so much more to cover on this election to talk about scotland and what i talk to is Boris Johnson can actually affect brags that after a short break we continue our discussion of the u. K. General election stay with. Us. Each simulating civilization will be able to run using a tiny fraction of its resources. Hundreds of thousands millions of runs through all of Human History almost all. Beings with our kinds of experiences with them to simulate that once rather than simulated ones and conditional that are good we should think we are full of that one of the simulated ones. That facebook and google started with a great idea and great ideals unfortunately it was also a very dark so. They are constructing a profile of you and that profile is real its detailed and it never goes away turns out that google is manipulating your opinions from the very 1st character that you type into the search bar it will always favor one dog food over another one comparative Shopping Service over another and one candidate over another they can suppress certain types of results diced on what they think you should be see if they have this kind of power then democracy is an illusion the free and Fair Election doesnt exist the more rope we give them the sooner we are all. Welcome back to crossfire where all Things Considered you were discussing the u. K. General election. Ok lets go back to al in london and in the introduction of the program i said this is a big win a big victory for Boris Johnson but is it a big victory for the u. K. Because at a lot of part of the 1st part of the program me we talked about the specter of another Scottish Independence vote and. Boris johnson after he replied shuffles the his cabinet on monday has the task of braggs it ahead which he ran on can he affect that and how difficult will it be with the europeans because it takes 2 to parlay go ahead alan. Oh you could certainly do it he has the part of it to be jory to accomplish it the europeans and if you post of noises there they want a quick deal because theyre fed up with bricks it is well some europeans are saying Different Things but on the whole you could certainly get a basic free trade treaty done almost immediate it wants to change. It will flexibility today might take a little bit longer oh you might just go for the new deal so it will certainly happen. You mentioned Scottish Independence the latest opinion poll in scotland says that 56 percent want to remain in the in United Kingdom and 4 to focus and want independence so i didnt think we need way too much above that would win and im sculptured we would win the referendum again nicolas sturgeon would lose again and in any case this could have a huge trial in scotland and start again munch of the former s. And p. The leader in 1st minister whos accused of attempted rape in 13 other Sexual Assault charges and his defense is going to be assisted chop cause by nicholas sturgeon so the s. N. P. Movement is about to divide choppy when the trial starts so barroso just said no we dont once in a lifetime expectation of the 1st result and theres no evidence of opinion has shifted nicholas sturgeon has to keep militants happy since he talks about a 2nd referendum all the time but choose not going to get it ok john weigh in on that scott another independent vote go ahead john. Well the basis for good 1st for support for abortion appears according to the pool crucibles it or not for 2 switches historically and i suppose a little sort of you know if you consider that when alex somebody then we that of the s. And p. Called the referendum a 2040 what he called it would be there to basically for good as war of independence was just over 30 percent there youre looking at something that theres quite remarkable happening in scotland yes that is a very controversial. Case coming down the tracks with a sippy and much congenital examined but Scottish Independence is far bigger than the s. And p. And this result is the biggest boon to the fortunes of Scottish Independence that early as a student to. Learn well and this country can longer be it can no longer be superceded by anything to do with it is a case of you created scotland the inevitability of scotland independence cannot be gainsaid peter its coming down the track its happening and less than effective that is. Where you are i dont know how i got 8 out and say it said 2016 just expect the unexpected ok and dont believe the polls ok the polls you know i mean you know that they they they fail us time and again and thats why i stay away from them let me go to mitchell you know weve got image right now. The fate of jeremy carbon right now i mean hes the hes definitely on the out ok this is a deplorable outcome for his party but let me give you an opposite observation again from my far away perch here there obviously he never really led why isnt that why wasnt he able to lead the labor party ok and i and i actually have personal sympathy towards him i dont agree with his policies i think hes an a straight up guy honest guy all school ok someone a conservative like me could understand someone like him a lot of other people in politics have no clue what theyre talking about so im trying to be gentle here but at the same time he didnt he didnt lead and i think that is one of his greatest failures let me go to mitch on this one go ahead mitch. Yeah i think thats a big problem we dont we have a lack of leadership in the United Kingdom right now and i dont think there has been a clear and decisive leader and weve had sound bites and and weve had weve had sound bites from everybody but weve had no decisive leadership weve had people telling making lots of promises but a lot of them are under 4 double and undeliverable and not going to be on the time frame or the scope scale and magnitude of which they were promised going back to corbin when he was asked what he was going to do about brags that he had one foot in one foot not putting a commitment on because he didnt want to alienate the 5000000 labor voters who he had to throw under the bus to say he was going to have a 2nd referendum where your choices would be remain or remain so you know that wasnt really giving people an option and people were a little fed up and i saw it tonight when we were counting ballots tonight i saw so many spoiled ballot papers where people had written in on the ballot papers i cant trust any of you youre all a bunch of liars you dont you dont represent us the people are fed up there are unprecedented levels of anger across this country there is intolerance and this is the most extreme polarization weve seen in this country ever and i think the media has whipped up that frenzy to even higher levels you know alan and it had i mean i dont rest were rapidly running out of time now and you know during this whole brags that somehow we saw the failings of both parties we saw that the problems that the the Jeremy Corbyn had with labor in keeping his party united and we also saw that with the resume with the tories but it looks like Boris Johnson has will have a united party but that its labor now thats going to be in a leadership contest that will tear it apart ok so Boris Johnson a lot of man standing go ahead alan thats absolutely right. The tory Party Without the solid united forests who thought i could a political be recouped in light led to. 2 or 3 different ways the lib dems are irrelevant the breck support is even more rather than. A huge opportunity to remake the british political scene in his own image and he will hes a historic figure ok john how do you reflect upon that because were in a new era right now i have to say and its because i have no choice but to look at the polls but im so disappointed again with the polls because it looked like it was a lot tighter but it looks like a genuine mandate from the people that did vote go ahead john your sentiment inform the people of england and we should meet thats your point thats fair point but when your opinion calls aleisha do with measuring Public Opinion more to do with trying to influence it peter only should be constrained to the dustbin of history have got it kind of struck catastrophic. And the last few years really me but if people are doing well for all and they voted for despair and never learn another long day of 40 barbarism to say and the last 10 years of a steady 120000 people have died as a direct result they seem dechen seem decades i suppose in rich people so their combined wealth increased by one over 180 percent and Boris Johnson is the most people figure to ever occupy this man is a serial liar these are shall attend and hes sure that he could get under snakes belly waiting to talk to get still people voted for this man and why because as i see the emotional breaks it sure powerful that no other kind of program could penetrate out for generally club and i think is a great man i think he has been he has been treated as such even as i received my 3rd in extremist irish that was meant to say so because he was a threat just a just war war against a brutal and war against poor countries overseas im going to be. Getting the ok the dust is settling right now what is Boris Johnson have to do to succeed give me a checklist 3 things go ahead mention. Hes got to ease got to get rid of the stinking problems with with the Withdrawal Agreement hes got to get the bread braggs it done free trade agreements negotiated as he promised by the end of next year which the European Union says they wont get done and hes got to deliver on improving policing because crime is a real big problem in this country 111 thing that i must add here is scotland although you want to have independence i dont know how youre going to pay for it because the European Union has said that they your finances wont allow it without westminster support so boris is in a unique situation situation i think what weve need to do also is have proportional representation and this vote showed that 1st past the post is garbage and it doesnt really represent all of the people and its a nonfunctioning archaic system that needs to be changed ok alan has turned out to be the mr contrarian on this program thats why i like having him on you were shaking your head go right ahead yeah i mean the 1st plus of course this means the britain has called it went to new europe hasnt got a new student student parties in. The exception of colbys marxist leninist 60 this and that at d. C. Might so run to the top of the liverpool but we dont have the right wing extremists in a moment which is unique in europe parliaments all over europe are full of extremists but not the british one and that stooge of the 1st past the post system if we go. Go it knows we dont fool of loonies just like the european called it went ok john what does labor do now ok as the dust settles here when will jeremy step aside assume he will stay in parliament but when when will he step aside and what do you who do you think will replace him or who is in the running at least go ahead john there is already a news that interested as a result and wished immediately report to. Towards the center and it will be taken to a character of what people have been accustomed to expecting from is that its that its had a winning proposition going back to the center because i know a lot of people in the labor party thats not what they want to do and its very much like the democrats in the United States theyre tearing themselves down the middle keep going john absolutely not the center of the Political Center grow peter just collapse it collapsed because the neoliberal economic model is sustained or has collapsed in the wake of it too theres an economic crash by the issue an economic crash but the liberal party will move towards a said to be with us will be should be played actual come to the fore again and hope will be removed from british politics 2000000 people registered to vote peter when this election was called as a record in british politics many of them were young people amended but inspired to register to vote by Jeremy Corbett so as i say i think hope has been removed from british politics the n. H. S. Is no peril to anything good in this country is no hope at all and we will that go back to the business as usual when it comes to politics well go back to the can fake spun politicians of people of a take well known and any chance of authenticity interest in politics. I got a job in here when it comes to Boris Johnson its never business as usual all right thats all the time we have many thanks and i guess in edinburgh and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r. T. C. You next time remember the trolls. And there are so assassins. I just got out of prison life. 41 yes. Im 17 years old. I got arrested somebody. You know. Just everything was taken out of. My work and the hospital was. Meant to snowman the looks of opium back me. About. Homicide want to. Work hard tough in the. Us so youre going. To go. To the moon on a friday try to frighten. Snow and do something about it do. A little bit of let me. Ask i wouldnt. Take i could. Not have a thing. To show more than. You love lose you know nothing. And you make it a c. Because dont want to. Do what they were always the kook on the standards of that now as you dunks push. Them out of the focus. On you and those still moan some little known where much of this news figured in 1000 years from now. So would you hire the loony tried to use in did. To. Your house and theyre not. Going to come to. The conservatives with it to their biggest u. K. Election victory in more than 30 years as voters turn their backs on the labor party. Despite all of the. Whale scotlands nationalist party wins by a landslide to the north of the border working for new calls for independent. Minded he says that it is for the Scottish Parliament noise i wish mr government to say there are times when it should be a new refrain one in. The u. S. And china announced phase one of a trade deal to overcome their long running tariff war