Group Islamic State says it carried out friday stabbing in Central London 2 people were killed in that attack 3 others badly injured perpetrator had served time in prison for previous terrorist offenses before being freed early on license last year british Prime Minister has criticised that practice of automatic really. Clear to me that. This guy was out. Half of the sentence he was out on automatic Early Release and i have long said that this system simply isnt working it does not make sense for us as a society to be putting terrorist people convicted of terrorist offenses a serious offenses out on Early Release. 28 year old was released from prison in december he was jailed for planning a bomb attack on the London Stock Exchange in 2010 his other targets back then reportedly included the u. S. Embassy and Boris Johnson who at the time was mary of london was still wearing his electronic tag when he carried out fridays assault video showing the aftermath of the stabbing of been put on social media you can see some civilians were wrestling with the killer pinning him to the ground or managed to seize a knife from the terrorist who was then shot dead by police i witnesses describe what they saw. A mass rushing of people falling over each other smashing bottle knocking. People really by panicking in the bar area of the big flood of people rushing scrambling calling every basically there was a lot of movement going on in a panic. What. Kind of counsel are there like a wave of something going on. And then suddenly everybody said go down into the basement it was extremely frightening but if you dont know what to do you know you have done so i just i dont want to think twice gunshots going off and once again. Its the 1st terrorist attack on british soil since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister theyre not the 1st in recent u. K. History. Later this hour well be debating life with our guests why the London Bridge attacker only this sentence for terror related offenses before being released stay with us for that. Next tragic news coming out of russia 19 people have been killed and 22 others injured in a bus crash in the countrys east 2 children are among the dead at the bus carrying 41 passengers in all fell off a bridge into a river some passengers were trapped inside Russias Investigative Committee as well as the probe into the cause of the accident a preliminary report suggests that the bus have blown a tire leading to the driver losing control of the fia. U. S. Democrats have labeled fox news an existential threat to the u. S. Describing it as a russian stooge and some are even now calling for the channel to register as a Foreign Agent. Fox news should register with far as an agent of the Russian Federation if its going to peddle the kremlin agenda and propaganda while hurting u. S. National security interests then it should be treated the same as our t. And nick the networks known to appeal to conservative americans and challenges the common us Mainstream Media narrative for example regarding the alleged chemical attack in the syrian city of duma and 2017 which the west blames on syrias president assad and heres what triggered the latest democratic campaign. Why do i care about you know you out of the conflict between ukraine and russia because im sorry a slick i dont like to whitewash that one for russia with fox news host says he roots for russia against the west he said the quiet part out loud this clip is just one more exhibit supporting the case that its no longer left vs right but democracy versus authoritarianism i think many still underestimate the threat to the republic at this point fox is openly fascist d. N. D. G. O. P. Are existential threats to the usa its not the only case of pro republican media being targeted by democrats in september a conservative one america news filed a defamation lawsuit against b. C. This host Rachel Maddow has demanded more than 10000000. 00 in compensation after she called it paid russian propaganda so what more columnists that news magazine spectator usa says insinuating a russian affiliation is a go to democrat strategy these days. Its just not the smear its then thats all it is and they make these outrageous claims with absolutely no backing your no support about being a Foreign Agent and of course the intent is not to actually get these organizations to register as Foreign Agents thats absurd the intent is to just plant this seed to plant this ridiculous notion which theyve been doing all along theyve been doing this with the russian gates a lot that blew up in their face earlier this year now at the detroit hearings which has also blown up in their face Democratic Party in the left used to be the party of free speech the priest Speech Movement was started in the 1960 s. By left wing activists and d and theyre also the Antiwar Movement and they used to be the party of antiwar and weve seen this dramatic shift the entire paradigm has been flipped on its head free speech and war and Foreign Relations its just 2 of those biggest issues the Democrat Party of the left is fundamentally anti free speech and meantime the Washington Post has begun its own crusade against republicans pounding them russian propagandists as aunties my guest if that explains it pulls down that seems to be some muddled thinking about events in ukraine. Were going to go in a journey you and i a trip into another dimension a magical place written in the rated by the Washington Post where there are assuming the russian agents in the United States they will soon outnumber americans themselves President Trump has been disloyal to the United States not only given russia a leg up in his war against ukraine but also in broadcasting his propaganda and for that republicans are just as guilty like to point out that it was the democrats who banned the sale of lethal weapons to ukraine and republicans who gave you create hundreds of millions of dollars in those weapons but whats the point theres no piercing this bubble of unreality an anomaly in the space time continuum of common sense that the Washington Post exists in it is up to means to media to directly challenge republicans who yes engaged in unamerican activity there deliberately assisted in a russian propaganda operation in this wondrous realm that Jennifer Rubin has brought to life everyone who disagrees with her is a traitor a traitor as anyone who mentions that democrats accepted foreign meddling in the election willfully eagerly accepted foreign help to try to get clinton elected democrats cooperated and ukrainian election meddling official show the surprising lack of interest and indications of ukrainian election meddling that deeply concerned the president whose pleasure they serve during the election ukraine released damning information about trumps then Campaign Head paul manifold causing huge damage to the tycoon in fact we have would you sit nick a ukrainian official using his powers of office then bragging about quote helping. Hillary. Little more i didnt help him trump i helped hillary it would be better for us a fact that ukraines courts ruled to be interference election meddling ukraines own chords said that but in jennifers magical kingdom this isnt true she crossed out the old you his admission the court ruling and cited reports that its all a russian psyop and because she crossed it out its no longer true just because you try proving her wrong if Congressional Republicans have evidence our Intelligence Community is wrong they need to present it otherwise they need to be called out for deliberately assistant hostile foreign power evidence is something that supports jennifers point of view if it doesnt it isnt evidence see when special Counsel Robert Mueller root in his report that Russian Hackers seemingly and apparently quoted from the report hacked hillarys servers thats evidence but when you give her or her car in the recording a confession and a court ruling youre an american and the cost of this investigation i would ask you please not from a politically driven false or clear interests so if newman is good enough for you let me do him some justice it appears the Jennifer Rubin is a 2 faced hypocrite allegedly she may also be a Foreign Agent its she that she and her have done and are doing more damage to america as a nation than anyone else after all and correct me if im wrong but isnt rabidly undermining the Us Government spreading fear and hate on an industrial scale to every American Home smearing half your country is traitors isnt that about as unamerican as you can be. Its been 2 months is a massive fire engulfed a chemical factory in the french city of rwanda local residents fear for their health at the time they took to the streets demanding transparency it is done after a pause from wrong. Were working with a crowd of well it looks like a 100 maybe a bit more i cant really see all the way to the end of this call him through on and indeed there are concerned people from all really the whole society spectrum is here all of them are indeed demanding transparency from the government and from lubrizol the company the Chemical Plant that while of that released all these chemicals into into the atmosphere some 2 months ago. Many of the locals complained about the Burning Sensation in their throat for instance or about feeling nauseous after the release of the chemicals just simply because of breathing the contaminated app and theyre accusing the government of failing to release the air samples they which were taken right after the fire and the governments position on lubrizol is position has been that while there was no Immediate Health threat that all of those effects would pass and that there was no Environmental Impact but people here are not buying this i found this in my garden and every day i can find it it comes from the lubrizol. Fire and so my childrens doesnt go in the garden so thats thats why i am i am very very angry and i created this this exhibit to show that we are boring about people who we money and how our life are becoming like that. Removed through the surgery this was right we want the truth to be revealed about what happened in the lubrizol accident because now everyones just passing the buck and no one wants to take responsibility and the truth about the accident has not been established just today we should have Health Monitoring which we currently dont we. Tonight more extensive blood tests we expect resignations over this. People are concerned about their health but it wasnt just about that local businesses local farmers suffered immensely for instance some 1800 farmers who were banned from harvesting their own crop by the french government because all of that well because because of the fears of contamination so you can clearly see why people here are demanding more transparency and they want an indepth look as to whats going on that result plant. Ok im going take a short break then move back to discuss more about fridays stabbing attack in london seen a few months. The official for russia is not. Doing. Is not doing for instance the contrary to his predecessors he did not start any war. It is a little bit. More predictable in the. Perspectives on the other hand the world is changing it is achievable in force and. Its not supposedly mr trump who is making the dangerous place he is just the symptom of the change thats. Joined me every thursday on the alex simon sure and ill be speaking to us of the world of politics sports business im show business ill see you then. Return to our top story this evening where 2 people were killed earlier in the week in a terrorist attack in Central London the terrorist group Islamic State have since claimed responsibility for that stabbing it was also revealed that the perpetrator had spent time in prison for previous terrorist offenses before being freed early on license this was the end of last year the british Prime Minister has since criticised the practice of automatic Early Release must discuss this in a bit more depth. Now with our guest political and social commentator nontrade walker whos a political commentator and new York Observer columnist very good evening to you both gentlemen. Lets talk about the the man who carried out this arifin attack 1st call i would like to ask you on. A lot has been said subsequently about the system of automatic release after half a sentence is easy to say stuff in hindsight but what do you think of the system. Well look im not a lawyer but my understanding is that the law was changed after carm was sentenced and now actually it would be far easier to keep somebody like that in prison for longer but look since september the 11th weve released 500 terrorists who have committed acts of terrorism in the u. K. That is too many and clearly we need to toughen up our laws bought at the end youve got to remember that these people are quite quite so unusual of whilst we need to control them we also need to be very clear that we cannot infringe on civil liberties. Because they are so important because. Im owed you what do you think of the system you can understand that people are thinking it gives a chance for for people to mend their ways and still make a life after having wasted much of it behind bars but it seems that you know problems can arise from it. I think we need to put things in in some kind of clear context britain as a british citizen you know i live and reside here and make my living here but in britain we have the worst rehabilitation rate for institutionalized offenders in the western world and tory austerity weve seen the budgets for the Prison Service been slashed and slashed in the service been degraded over and over again we see an increased requirement for the British State to sell out to us corporations who get this mass industrialized Prison Program in place and as a result we see an overpopulated prison population we see underresourced and i dont think youre going to get rid of the paper between me and on this issue the system has failed him there is enough to say there are enough discretionary measures. Within the judicial system to pick this up but like so many attacks like in france like in belgium and batman across europe these post isis post liberal post in lighten if you like terror attacks happening on home soil theyve often come from homegrown terrorists radicals criminals whatever you like to call them but they have been institutional failures within the Security System now as a somebody was formally counterterror counter radicalisation advisor to the government i worked at a local level as well as a National Level weve seen over and over again different instances around the world including with the easter bombings in sri lanka where the state Security Apparatus can do better should do better and isnt doing better and we have to ask questions why would you think about their own job because just to back up what mo is saying there are former top prosecutors claim that this particular attacker had been seeking help to turn away from terrorism and that that help was in there all day or thirtys responsible to an extent for not helping this particular prisoner in theory many more. Where youve got to remember this is very similar to saying just because she wore short skirts she deserved to be raped nobody deserves to be a victim of a terror attack i remember the police the Security Services the courts are attempting to prevent these violent terrorists from attacking this country so weve got to remember that for from a stark reminder im not sure anybody say is mainly body to be a tight. No no no but but i think by saying that its vaults but youre asking the question im giving the answer but what we need to do is we need to be far tougher on terrorists we need to say that when a judge said as he did in the case of osman carm that this man will be dangerous for the rest of his life then we need to have the position worth the courts are able to sentence them to life imprisonment the big problem weve got is that style and time again terrorists are convicted of minor offenses but theyre let out fairly quickly that is the problem we need to have what you think about introvert biases where so people in prisons are up sitting there going out i see them with all of in the party should they be there is there besides your life membership as an heiress organization should be a criminal offense in all of its all right look how they sent us a non didnt you dont include why hes not going include the i. D. F. Initially selling items on i think the 2nd war crime this guy this guy this guy always says the same thing he always says the same thing the conservatives are supplied thats because hes got a political agenda look in truth the question here is what are we doing about those people who are involved in terrorist organizations but have not yet committed serious terrorist offenses i say membership of any terrorist organization should have a life imprisonment are if that would resolve the what do you mean membership no people know who carries a little bit of power in a lot plus the heart of terrorism friends that on drawdown going on there you know be under its own country i dont have a terrorist organization. Just comic look im not going to anybody we do we do the tories can we go on face nobody with us we do this nobody because you ladies all the time you know but hes relating this all the time where board just because youre an apologist look just because you are looking at all the case for these guys doesnt mean youre allowed to interrupt make the point hes very simple we have no hes explaining we havent really should i mean theres got to. Be quite a bit of ok i like that you should tell him to go to plan until its a journalist just to give each other a chance to make good points gillian and since im doing just made to put if i could just write i just i suppose if you want to. Buy part of the recent run its going to im sure youve got youve made your point of sale tomorrow right now mo please i think andris maybe. Just to respond to it well but where that how did this every time but thats how you just its just a blow hard boil a time just a blowhard stop playing sport its a little intro piecemeal you have to put it back on track record the answer you havent done the job of work in this area ok youre going to have to balance a lot of the song out of there lets say its all on the belly now you called on everybody Everybody Knows me im sorry ill carry guys lets not get the only place you go all i know you guys are doing is trying to engage with each other if youre one of the no ones going to be able to understand what i think youre going to get said ok are you going to poor you have a major i know you have a long talk over the right to choose. And you respond counterterror when it comes when it comes to counterterror and counter radicalisation policies i was involved in the government at the heart of the inception of the prevent agenda of the agenda i work all the party medications with. And i want to walk through the government on the local communities but the important thing is this what im talking about is im not just making stuff up like you are saying theyre like a tory blowhard trying to cover some talking points dont dominate cummings im actually talking about what i want to take and handle counterterrorism accounts of radicalisation now the difficulty we have is when weve got u. K. Citizens going to join the i. D. F. Or the white p. G. Which we know the. You nato rasmussen even by blair 0 we condemned the p. K. K. The p. K. K. As being terrorist the p. K. Rebranded with congressional funding as the y. P. G. And then when people went out to syria to fight for them british citizens fighting for Terror Organization ideologically and fundamentally funded and secured by the same people linked to terrorism we gave them a pass the idea of have been found guilty of war crimes genocide apartheid ethnic cleansing in palestine yet we dont hold britain so same account ive got no problem with some the hard line thing just saying like throw away the key or terrorism should go to prison forever thats absolutely fine you know or even open up a dialogue on is Capital Punishment appropriate some people in some cases ok however what we have to do is ply apply fairly across the board if we are allowing entrapment cases where people are sent to syria and they come back we reduce their citizenship we transduced their rights you talk about civil rights and human rights what about the Bethnal Green schoolgirls who are 14 or 15 were transported to syria with and i came on r. T. At the time i wrote an article for the Huffington Post and we talked about the fact that they had been entrapped by state agencies in the u. K. Working with canadian 5 eyes agencies getting them out to turkey turkey that arrest the state agents involved in the canadian end and then show me the beggars out there having children she wanted to return back she was trafficked out there was a kid and we wont bring her back there are deep questions about corruption corruption of the Intelligence Services our Government Strategy and im talking as a counterterror Strategic Advisor right there a big question its not simple saying if you join a Terror Organization we have to find out why we have to tackle these issues properly under do you believe in rehabilitation you talked about life imprisonment do you believe you so much been radicalized you know theyve been effectively indoctrinated theyve been convinced a certain way is right not be convinced otherwise in your opinion. Well 1st of all dont let me interrupt you so here is my answer the answer is this there is a certain degree to which we need to stay radicalized people but at the same time when people. Are involved in terrorist organizations and remember what were talking about it were talking about people going to syria or going to Training Camps in pakistan people who are engaging in acts of terror whether that be fund raising where that be terrorist training or whether it be actual acts of terrorism in terms of violence those sorts of people should no more be treated reasonably than somebody who turns around and says i only murdered this woman because it was a crime of passion these are people whove committed serious criminal offenses and also mentally in this country we had a rule for a long time about prescribed terrorist organizations are often came into play with the Irish Republican Army and the also volunteer force where we prosecute people for be members of these organizations and that be a crime in of itself now what i would say is that we wanted to give us a crowd going easy eh whatever is done why do we know all about it and the people hes interop see exemplary of marriages and unfinished enjoy it as an annual a disguise a blowhard let me finish let me for instance point of view to point out that youre going to spend the next 5 minutes talking about himself is going to talk about himself right the point the point of the matter is that there is a long running rule where we are able to prosecute people for prescribed groups also when carr was convicted in 2012 and the judge said effectively in our bridge i want him to be in prison for life but ive only able to leave him in prison for life he said that this man was always going to be a danger to British Society he said that going out on license would be no protection for the British Public and why those men card was out on license that george was proved right the law needs to change membership of terrorist organizations to hold a maximum penalty of life in prison and then judges can choose whether that much is appropriate on a case by case basis that to me seems sensible ok lets bring it back to mobile i think it will just giving also how typical is decide case by case it is another sensible approach i think i think andre has hit the nail on the head in 2012 when this convicted terrorist. Convicted terrorist a criminal was convicted he should go away forever he was a danger to everybody and it was under the tory government in order it was absolutely right under their policies and their austerity policies under their policies that prevent under their failed policies of counter radicalisation under their failed policies that of course us british soldiers lives to been lost overseas and innocent citizens lives have been lost at home. Ariana grande all right i literally having dinner tonight of the Christmas Market with some bandmates and some other guys from musical bands were talking about doing gigs in town and in and around the city where is it safe where we are safe are people too outspoken to go out and live their lives why cant we live as british Citizens Free free from fear the tory government to fail over and over again Boris Johnsons failed us the policies of austerity counter radical radicalization they really dont have a clue what theyre doing and when we are releasing terrorists should be thrown should have thrown away the key when weve put them away or we should be monitoring them theyve got times theyre asking for help when theyve been released is virtual complicity by the tory government virtual complicity and we need to start asking questions about why is our Security Status failing why arent people able to go to prescribe groups like the white p. T. Rebranded as the p. K. K. Donald trump started to wash his hands and leave it to the ground to deal with there was opera with the un and nato allies to interrupt you know theres a. We are about for another time i just want to just want to get under 30 seconds just to respond to the point youve just been making. Sure. What we just heard was a highly political robinson i think it is known for its lead with the people but the release came in 2012 the conservatives abolished it but actually thats not the point its not about austerity its not about labor its not about the conservatives its about the fact that we need to do more to assist our judges on the psystar courts and i believe were going to do that and im sorry that this has become they said. Ok well have to wrap it up many thanks gentlemen all the tool sellers about you think its a very warm. Service it was a very good evening to you both thank you. For. Coming to welcome to worlds apart 3 years after the election of donald trump political opponents have spare no effort in trying to keep his presidency from the kremlin agents me arent you the abuser of Office Charge nothing half so far proven Strong Enough to shorten his 1st term