Let me go to you 1st in baltimore i dont i dont really think on this program we need to speak about the failings of socialism i think were all on the same page on that here my point in this program is here no i dont want to waste time on that because i its obvious ok historically it obvious on its face here but thomas what is the attraction then why do we have so many millennial zz and so many people attracted to this idea that so many of them have no historical knowledge of whatsoever go ahead thomas in baltimore. It was mostly because people like David Henderson and myself have been snuffed out of the academic world there are still 100 classical liberals in american academe but were outnumbered by hundreds of thousands of others and the young people are taught what economists call the nirvana fallacy they pose socialism as some sort of utopian ideal and compare that to the real world and of course the real world always comes up short when you compare it to utopia and thats basically the methodology thats used in the thievin used widely in the economics profession with all the theories of socalled market failure and so even if you take economics you dont really get well grounded in how markets work and the importance of private property and private enterprise in most economics departments and in my opinion i think that you have a problem and i would like and so there are fewer and fewer of us ok david in monterey you want to jump in go ahead david yeah i would like to add that i gree with what im just said i think its more tens of thousands to a few 100. But also also its even worse than that in a sense is a lot of the things that the Government Intervention causes a lot of the problems are attributed to careful are attributed to free markets and thats a real problem so for example weve got high housing costs in california thats totally do its a government preventing people from building more houses and yet somehow thats a knock on capital its not some dark and free market and a lot of young people remember stand that were with the understanding ok to understand more economics from people who understood it spent you know maxie but you get this message not only is there a growing popularity of socialism as people understand it which i will still continue to say they dont really understand here but why is do we get this mantra that capitalism is failed people it seems very real to them and i would attribute to it at least one reason is this whole culture of entitlement everyones and. Itll do something now and they look to the state and thats what they want the state more to do for them and then title meant is is the path to a to serfdom i think that that is the historical record as well what is this critique of capitalism where does it come from go ahead max yeah i think theres 2 fallacies here and the 1st one is that capitalism is the status quo is exactly what we have right now and you know the occupy wall street protesters back during the financial crisis they were protesting capitalism they thought they were they were actually protesting the nexus of sort of big business and Big Government together and sort of power that that yields the 2nd fallacy is that if we want to do something as a society to help someone or to organize ourselves in some way that that is either you know this nation state this government thats going to do it or its not going to be done at all and you know my colleague ed stream is the president of a literally wrote the book on private governance and there are so many other options and thats one thing we have to definitely let people know about ok you know thomas what we hear a lot in the meter go ahead jump in thats the whole point of the program thomas in baltimore go ahead was going slow because its been a lot of the young people who are wrong paul followers they were his followers because they did this like crony capitalism especially the antics of the Federal Reserve board and then when ron left the political scene so many of the same young people became Bernie Sanders supporters because Bernie Sanders was ranting and raving against crony capitalism the big difference of course is that bernie thinks. The response should be even more crony capitalism with bigger government and wrong of course is a libertarian and so so thats evidence that these young people are just an educated they dont they confuse crony capitalism with real capitalism and thats part of big part of what ive done in my academic. There is a written several books trying to explain this yet in a lot of different ways you know. And i agree with that im going to go to david in monterey i mean i im very concerned about the monopolization of the economy i think that has to be addressed this crony capitalism has to be addressed the financial ization of the economy has to be addressed but socialism isnt the answer to any of those things go ahead david in in monterrey right and part of it is its a misunderstanding of socialism so when bertie was questioned on what do you want he said he wanted what they have in scandinavia scandinavia has a Corporate Tax rate sweden does this roughly comparable to ours 22 percent is yet 20 percent you know so so that is they have a more they have a bigger welfare state they actually have less regulation the council of economic advisors under trump put out a report last year earlier this year pointing out that were kind of in the middle as far as regulation goes in industrialized countries and some scandinavian countries have actually less regulation we do so again it does come down to this misunderstanding and once one thing we can do about that a say in iraq will the other thing is im a glass house full kind of person or maybe here its a glass of thirds full but i want to then say ok lets tell them that lets educate them lets write about that lets do alls well yeah but you know max again this that would be against the this antielite mantra which you know i can understand it here but i mean it again is going back to this kind of in sense of entitlement i mean everybody is given something to to further their life and people are so used to it right now you get a useless education studying something that has studies at the end of it thats a dead end almost by definition and its actually a scam ok its a scam if thats what it is ok to get it all these College Educators and counselors theyre all going to the bank while the middle class is going is going broke ok now that has actually thats a system after youve broken the i dont know how they dont they got a max when you got a maximum going back to david when it got a little bit of math interest and we got him you may say and then ill go to you ok go ahead max go ahead max. Whoa whoa im going to thank you for that peter by pushing back on you a little bit and saying youre probably right about the entitlements the sense of entitlement but if were going to make the case to some of these people that theyre wrong about socialism were not going to really do it by saying youre entitled i think the case that you make is that capitalism isnt necessarily about these big businesses and big business i bring that happens but its really a bottom up force for change right that ultimately what capitalism is and and its not and its sort of all the an innovative and all that yet ok david a month ago you want a job and i had some facts about the u. S. Economy the middle class is disappearing its yes a period where its disappearing upward we have 3 times as many households with 100000. 00 or more in Family Income and this is adjusted for inflation than we had 50 years ago thats you credible improvement so lets not forget that things are Getting Better ok well i think will be there isnt the Income Distribution issue thomas let me go to you there i think this also is giving people cause to quote unquote support socialism because while there are people moving up there are a lot of people moving down as well thats the heartland thats who voted for trump go ahead thomas in baltimore. Well thats true but have theres a lot of game playing with these Income Distribution statistics because theres an economist named jim cox who wrote a great book called mr rich and poor that tracked individual families over several decades and saw and saw that there was a great deal of mobility in the American Economy so the people at the bottom are not the same people if we have 10000000 more immigrants from the 3rd world well theyll start at the bottom and so if you look at the statistics in a look like income inequality is worse but what happens to those people in the future is that is the question and they come here for orson primarily in the 1st place because they want to take advantage of American Capitalism and the opportunities that it offers thats right if you had only usually scandinavia by the way but if you look at the editors of Economic Freedom finish up thomas go ahead. I thought we were supposed to jump in if you look at the economically and published by the plantation craze united to 670 via is about the same as the United States very similar ok so if you want to get you guys cant talk over each other because the no one can hear here ok who said hey can i get my do but to say peter can i jump in that would make it easier to make that you would say i got you know you can go ahead david. If you have a whole bunch of n. B. A. Players in a room and the average height is 6. 00 and a whole bunch of school kids enter the room the average height of sauls that those say anything about the the height of those players its still the same that that gets thats to make the point that tom diemer in so just made that these people come in theyre poor or theyre low income they get better off our average income might fall but in fact were doing better we have Gardening Services that are cheaper we have restaurants that are cheaper oh and by the way the author of the book tom mentioned is not jim cox as michael carts and richard all ok thomas last 40 seconds in this part of the Program Director go ahead go ahead max jump in thats the point of the program i had maxed. Yeah i i wanted to just build on that point and say that you know i care about poverty i care about helping people who are at the bottom i dont necessarily care that there is somebody who has a lot more money than i dont agree that theyve probably done innovative things in the economy i agree all right gentlemen were going to continue our discussion on capitalism and socialism in which one will win now were going to go to a short break here after that short break well continue our discussion on millennial socialism stay with. The head of isis is decapitated. Guys a sure. Thing they have sleeping. On the head in iraq both in studio 2 so we have to do with this problem back to the long term. Than was the topic but that was all through so i think the longer. Those organizations are traveling to. To my hardest to and dashboards to campaign. Donnish. To. Stop telling the full psionic. Tell. My son in law my mother but you dont have to needlessly. Just so you dont. Have. To my small pursuit. Welcome back to cross talk were all things are considered im Peter Lavelle for a month were discussing millennial socialism. Ok lets go back to max in new york max explain to me i dont live in the united his what do you see the appeal of a o c because i saw a clip of her yesterday i mean this is just gobble league nonsense i mean it would it would work out in a coffee house in a university somewhere on the east or west coast but its so detached from reality but take a leave on the issue like of immigration you want you Want Health Care for everyone and you want to have open borders how is that pos how can anyone you know have the ability to get a leg to the congress and start of a spouse in that kind of nonsense and the liberal media theres no pushback virtually no pushback against this nonsense thats being spouted go ahead bags. Youre exactly right peter and but you know we can clean our side of the street here and you know what im talking about where people hear about capitalism and if youre a 25 year old and you have done youre not you know if you dont know much about economics you stay a little bit in form but you know you do Something Else youve only heard that capitalism is great from a Republican Party that for most of your life is put out other views that a lot of young people dont find acceptable and find kind of antiquated on social issues and things and so i think theres some confusion that capitalism is part of some old order that needs to be overturned rather than actually to force for change in our society and so i think that you can kind of cast blame all over the place but then you do have politicians on the left who are taking advantage of that. Interesting thomas e. And i i i i think its really well said already on this program is that there is very little knowledge of what actually economics how it really works and an ideology called socialism that has a track record of utter failure here but its fused into Political Correctness isnt it i mean i actually came across a lecture about if you take down capitalism you take down the patriarchy as well i mean this to all this stuff is getting really fused together and it and i have no he quit theyre talking about but they certainly feel good about it thomas. You know what well you know i think you see is a puppet and she has a puppet master which is her former chief of staff yeah whos some wealthy Silicon Valley guy and i think they know what theyre doing you know live on reeses wrote this famous book in the 1920 s. Called socialism and at the end of it he talks about what he calls destruction is and he said all socialists have always been 1st and foremost about destruction as in that is destroying the institutions of existing society and then they could start over again and create their utopia and i think thats what theyre about thats what the frank were at school has always been about is destroying the institutions of western civilization and capitalism and private property the foremost among them and so i think thats what people like you know see or about i dont think shes ignorant i think shes who knows what shes doing and her puppet masters all certainly know what theyre doing and i think thats exactly what theyre up to yeah ok but you know i know i know about this character unfortunately has an unpronounceable name for me i think its like bangladeshi or Something Like that but. David but david i mean but you know if you have how do you have explain the impetus of the if some guy some mogul in Silicon Valley millionaire or whatever he is and they want to burn it all down i dont understand that thats against your own self interest ok as i said in my introduction theres a lot of people a privilege of amazing privilege and of accomplishment and they they want to all throw it away with that the throw the dice on something that its a big if i mean a i mean that and those chances are really dodgy to burn it all down i have my criticisms of the system up already mentioned it here but this kind of approach is completely self destructive go ahead david. Well i think it is a self destructive and honestly i dont know the answer i would like to talk to the guy id like to be in a room with him for an hour and just ask questions not argue just ask questions to try understand because like you i dont understand hes incredibly wealthy some of his wealth at least would be at risk but not just that probably a lot of the things he like single life would be or wrists the more government power we havent figured out about this robs a certain the more the only kind of power worth having is political power and then everything becomes a conflict even maybe whether we get to practice the religion we war and so its it is horrible i dont understand it but i at least i think i can say you understated the case peter because its not to be you know its a big certainty that if this happens were going to be worse off and hes going to be you know what a sequel so when i when i was teaching undergraduates at the university of california i had a course in modern european history and i used to always trying to point out to them and they didnt absorb it and this was a long time ago guys but i used to say you know you always hear that you know socialism is a good idea which is implemented badly and i would say no its the reverse its a very very bad idea and it was implemented very very well and we see the results of it here or as i said before the program here you know capitalism does make social mistakes but socialism makes capital mistakes i mean and on a human scale ok were not just talking about you know destroying the stock market or Something Like that max you know again you know where does this kind of utopian feeling come from because it i can explain it rationally go ahead max. So lets put the politicians and their puppet masters aside for a 2nd i think we have no choice but to approach the rank and file millennia old who are saying they support socialism with assuming slightly better intentions and maybe less understanding that maybe they see poverty around them and they want to help people and that some you know that somewhat becomes an identity thing also and it gets them broiled in that but we have to then make the case to them that our society can help People Better if we dont have this big centralized source of power in the middle that everybody assumes has to do everything and so you know that opens up the innovation the kind of decentralized bottom up ideas that people have and so you know i think that you know youre we can help people more if we have a more market oriented for you well i think you should allow people to help themselves stop putting impediments in front of people or thomas you know when i argue when i argue with these these left wing liberals and socialists here i always bring up the issue of dependency do you want to be dependent on the government and institutions and remarkably so a lot of them say that wouldnt be a bad idea and i gassed by that im aghast by that when you are dependency the less freedom you have i believe in choices dependency there are very few if any choices go ahead thomas. You know my friend Walter Williams wrote a whole book explaining why most americans hate freedom. They want to be taken care of by moma and moma is government and thats why people like Bernie Sanders i tell my students he seems to think government has a clause you know free this free that Free Education free car free house and so thats and so were the remnant people like myself and the other the other 2 on the panel and you peter were the run the. Keypad. We were going to save save the concept of freedom thats why Friedrich Hayek wrote the road to serfdom yep yep in fact just this morning i was thinking that of my next writing project would be to write sort of a road to serfdom for High Schoolers thanks for explaining some of the basic fundamental ideas or from. The please do with i think i need to explain these issues in a way more to you and i go hey just go ahead david. Did that i mean one of the things that made roach a certain such a bestseller was that the Readers Digest had him do a version or maybe they did it i forgot which but he. Did it back in the fortys and fiftys condensed it down and made it better i mean made it more understandable at least to a lot of people i think it sold i think certainly hundreds of thousands and might it might have been more than a 1000000 yeah more of that kind of thing you know and you know max that the thing another thing is it was a to me high exciting also you know it might mean you know im going to max here you know max i think my thing that i again when i argue with these people i always tell them why should you allow the government to make choices for you you know you like to sit in your star box and you like to you know where you are you know your sandals and you know walk around you know you know you make all your choices but i said government gives you limited choices and thats a form of coercion youre giving your freedom away when you allow yourself to be cool worse they dont seem to get that go ahead max. So i think a really important point and maybe something that can help at least a few people get that does come from ohio and its the its the point about localized knowledge that we all know so much more about our immediate surroundings and islands and our wants or needs and theres no way that any kind of centralized authority can ever incorporate that i think thats a really convincing point that speaks to people and says you cant do this stuff from the top down thats thats just a fact and then after that i think that we have to you know as frustrating as frustrated as we all d are we have to try not to just you know shake our heads and say these kids today because again thats not going to thats not going to change any minds and thats not going to you know we have to make our case and make it steadfastly but we have to also do it in a way that tries to reach out to somebody yeah you know. I did not mean i have any idea thomas here i one thing i did it was a couple of years ago in a pretty heated debate it was more heat coming from the other side than me i just said ok this is what socialism and i said this i got a question so this is what social free food free clothes free entertainment. Free time. Thats what you are socialism is and i said yes and i said thats good mo thats. All of those decisions are made by the people that run get you know ok thats because thats what your socialist utopia is going to be its going to be like a prison camp going to give thomas the last minute on the program go ahead thomas. You know im old enough to remember of the 3 stooges on television i mean i didnt i do grow up in europe remember this but there was one episode theres one episode where the stooges kept committing crimes quickly wanted to go to jail because there was good food there a warm bed and everything and thats what they wanted and so its a little more pleasant than good mo and so thats thats basically what were looking at here the people who seek safety and security at the hands of the state yeah yeah but if you do that you give up your freedom is not a Fair Exchange in your mind i dont think its a Fair Exchange you know. No no no no no the point i like to make is a lot of my students you know the young people are very concerned about the environment and but when i teach when my classes and i show them all the failures of government in protecting the environment and also all the private solutions of voluntary Solutions Free market environmentalism as a whole subdiscipline now in economics they really like that they really could they understand that if we can rely on market incentives and private property we can solve a lot of these problems that are local i was that they didnt exactly you know if you care if you care about the environment good area to make it a good way if you care about the environment plant trees thats a good start thats all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests in new york baltimore and in monterey and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r. T. C. You next time remember. Suggest doesnt call the reverse hunger games then reverse under our randomly pick 10. 00 to 16. 00 billionaires every year and strip them of everything get it down to 0 and pour some out there and make it into the world of commerce and see if they can build it up scratch again introduce risk back into the American Capital system because once you have a certain amount of money this. No more risk youre just clipping coupons for vanity and you have no stake in the game whatsoever. Your government and our government and all the other major governments of the world know whats going to happen and when its going to go but they havent told you and they havent told me they havent announced. Imagine something as big as the earth is going to cause tidal waves or earthquakes volcanoes erupt and its going to chill. So very for a while right. My great grandfathers. Nobody would care about the law or prison so youd have lawlessness should have. A terrible life between now and the. The tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been great only implement from the inside venezuela things are different were going to announce sanctions against petroleum to venezuela associated. Cabazon up a moment to. Get out of that political battle to see on the path to the map of the moment the focus of the who story isnt new nixon called in Henry Kissinger to tell him that it would not be tolerated that in latin america an alternative economic and social system could take hold and therefore the policy would be to make the economy scream so wants now making the economy of venezuela screed. Lend. Lease. At least that if you look at it. That. You. Know. That. Only. Supporters of the ousted libyan leader ever face off against the police in the capital as they refuse to recognize the new self declared interim leader. The leaders of the brics emerging economies are in brazil for their annual summit aiming to strengthen their partnership r t is at the event. Donald trump says he is a big fan of turkeys president and want as the 2 leaders meet in the white house with key differences remain over the conflict in syria and turkeys purchase of russian what