The Westminster Hall that some such a chamber of the house of commons which is specializes in backbench debates has been no charts the progress of luces law through the debates in Westminster Hall to the house of lords to its legs was full of introduction in the house of commons that the Westminster Parliament has been dissolved for the general election and the Northern IrelandAssembly Remains in abeyance this means that the only problem its currently in operation in the United Kingdom are the National Assembly wills and the Scottish Parliament in edinburgh i trust mr there are no members of parliament merely candidates being lined up by the various parties for individual constituencies cynics will say of course that the west this apartment has actually been out of operation for some time being totally deadlocked and absorbed by bricks it that is certainly how its been reported however and its not altogether the reality today issue we feature a cross Party Initiative which is pro forward remarkable legislative success on a subject which means it creates a deal to millions of people. Cruelty to animals this is how then m. P. s across the parties broke through the folk of bricks that she joined we achieved stick to regulation of the seal of poppies otherwise known as lucys law which will now come into effect next year from the smuggling of heart is an industry perpetrated by people motivated purely by money they can make up to an incredible 35000. 00 pounds per week illegally transporting puppies through our borders to be sold on unsuspecting dog lovers in the u. K. And the root cause of puppy smuggling seems to indeed be the ease with which gangs can abuse the pet travel scheme that operates across europe of was known as pets so its a little gentleman forgive me for giving way and he rightly identifies the large sums of money to be valued by the individuals all the noise crime and drug they make a very fine cost benefit calculation and therefore doesnt that reinforce the need a whole number of Animal Charities in order to actually raise the penalties for for maltreating maltreating out of the malls and also confiscation of vehicles so that theres no longer is a plain business this is a matter for people in the street who care that the animal they bring into their homes to become a partner from is an animal that has been cared for i am a supporter of making life and impossible for those reading the rules with the regard for welfare and thats why im here today to support on the dumb and everybody else. As chair of the all Party Parliamentary group for dog where all fear after all who successful meetings on the subject and well tended members events backed up by a very well supported e. D. M. And e. P. Tension securing over 100 place and signatures and just 13 days unsupported by the arabs pca kennel club and almost every other Welfare Organization in the u. K. Was also instrumental in the success of the seas law and i commend all of the work thats been done to bring this spar over to my knowledge and im concerned that this legislation will not come into full. Until 2020 and i hear what the minister said about that but i would like to press him a step on why this cannot be done saying there christmas comes between now and april 2020 and many families may succumb to the pressure to provide a kitten or a puppy for christmas it would be much better if pet shops were not able to display kittens or at least in the run up to christmas the savoy date and necessary misery and suffering a new path for christmas is often followed by possible abandonment in january this legislation is important because it puts into place lucys law it establishes a ban on the commercial 3rd party sales of poppies inc it is under 6 months of aging with a band thats been called for by committed campaign is and is overwhelming public support this is a positive step forward in cracking down on scrupulous breeders and tackling the scourge of poppy smuggling alex spoke to one of the parliamentary organizers the finish to lisa can. We so welcome back to the alex oben show thank you very much a side deal that blacks clouding. The parliamentary agenda has made it difficult for members of parliament to represent the causes that normally would do by parliamentary activity. I think in many ways it is however there have been opportunities to take it forward and given that the government has had to bring forward there was i think where those cross Party Engagement and consensus and particularly in relation to Animal Welfare on liseys law which is the 3rd party poppy sales in pet shops and through poppy farmers what you say because the government consumer this epic parliamentary battle on the other legislation is told to be consensual not as provided a lot of truth to the stranger with additional opportunity for members of the to bring forward their only job yeah i think our hearts and weve really capitalized on not as a c. We had massive success with liseys law and we also had finance law brought through which is to protect service dogs and to make sure that animals are here in service if theyre attacked that there is a law where those who perpetrate that can be held responsible and accountable so overall well feel both domestic and we didnt alas that has been one of your your key campaigns as a campaigning member of parliament how does a vigil m. P. Go both getting the issue onto the agenda and making progress through the laws of the initiatives youve mentioned there i mean i tear apart parliamentary welfare so thats been our muscle based in terms of making sure that we put through this a change in parliament and that we get the across Party Members to support it that we need to do so. I honestly think in parliament over the past couple of years although the agenda hasnt been as phyllis perhaps the government would have white we have been able to capitalize on and thats been fantastic for Animal Welfare right across United Kingdom but with the car was going to so work for joy years ago. We saw a little bit of the normal activities of of parliament continue despite birch thank you very much. So it probably meant shes success but what difference will actually make who better to ask than the celebrated mark abraham how does it work on Television Personality marshalling across Party Campaign in the palace of westminster mark speaks to alex. And im delighted to be joined by mark abraham better known at least twitter handle as mark mark welcome to the alex salmond schill hi alex i dont know if you have just achieved. Pretty significant campaigning success eleusis law how what is it tell us that and how did you manage that when blacks as completely dominated the political agenda well firstly thanks for inviting me to be on your show lucys law is basically a ban on the sale of puppies and kittens by commercial dealers so anyone who isnt the breeder selling the puppy or the kittens so for example pet shops people Motorway Service stations anyone who delivers a popular kid into your house so the person who hasnt actually bred the dog or cat is a 3rd party dealer the reason this is important to ban is because 3rd Party Sellers these dealers enable and encourage poppy farming to happen behind closed doors so its a campaign against poppy farming and poppy farming happens in wales and scotland and ireland in Eastern Europe in england and probably farming is the mass production of dogs purely for profit with no regard for their welfare why such a bad thing i mean why is the mass production of poppies to a willing audience why its a essentially a bad thing its a bad thing because the conditions that theyre kept in just horrific because the public never see them and the local authority inspectors may see them maybe once a year so the rest of year its a free for all so theyre kept as a culture animals and straws sawdust in pens theyre not socialized theyre not vaccinated or not given any form of very treatment and theyre basically bred to death the bred every season which is twice a year for dogs until theyre infertile and then theyre destroyed puppies are removed too early and then the puppies sent around the country sometimes overseas to be sold without their mums by these dealers who could not have been addressed just by better read. Elation and inspection. First of all youd have to have someone inspecting pretty much every day to ensure adequate welfare standards which is obviously impossible. And its just the process of selling vajra 3rd party is so detrimental to the welfare because theyre removed too early which affects the socialization of the puppy mixed in batches as they go around the country so they transfer disease because theyre anxious and stressed and the end product you see is when people go to a pet shop which is usually regulated and licensed is the fact that this little tiny ball of puppy is actually riddled with medical disease surgical disease and behavioral disease and usually doesnt last more than 24 to 40 hours in the new home so affects Human Welfare to turn with only lasts 24 to 40 over because what happens that they die of the flow they dont know the stress of going to the new home and the end of their mothers limited immunity because theyre usually 8 weeks of age they usually overcome with virus typically parvovirus they go downhill very quickly and the new family whos excited and theyve got a new bedding and theyve got toys and theyve got new food is now either burying a pup in the garden or actually telling the vet to put it to sleep because its in too much pain and cant be treated which talk was lucy so lucy was a cavalier king charles spaniel who was rescued from a licensed happy farm in wales in a terrible state she had epilepsy dry eye arthritis separation anxiety a cataract in her left eye she was a broken dog and she was discarded because she couldnt breathe anymore she was useless technically she was adopted by a lovely lady called lisa in the West Midlands and rehabilitated and lucy were incredible journey in her 3 hour 3 years of of living in freedom she met celebrities she attended dog shows and she got a following on facebook which is lucy the rescue cavalier still a fantastic page which. Sort of attracted us from around the world and when sadly she succumbed to all her illness says in december 2016 we decided to on of the campaign to ban 3rd party commercial popping kid dealers after her loose use law and that really proved to be the game changer in the campaign. Join us after the break where alex continues his interview with t. V. Fit my caper. Thousands of american men and women she was just sort of in the countrys military and the decision. Every thing came to a complete. The day that i was raped. You know told to shut up theyd kill me and i see how it destroyed my life any screamed at me and he made me come in and he grabbed my arm and he write me with his birth and if you take into account that women dont report because of the extreme retaliation its probably somewhere near about half a 1000000 women have now been sexually assaulted in the us military rape is a very very traumatizing tat happen but ive never seen trauma like ive seen from women who are veterans who have suffered military sexual trauma reporting rape is more likely to get the victim punished than the offender and almost 10 year career or chose very invested in and i gave a sex offender who was not even put to justice or put on the registry this is simply an issue of tower and violence male sexual predators for the large part of charge of whoever is there to prey upon whether thats a man or when. They put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected. So when youre the president. Or some want to. Have to do like to be 1st this is what before 3 of them or 10 people get. Interested always at the waters edge. There should be more. Imagine being 635 and you have a career and a career involves using your i phone in your computer things like that in an office and perhaps the sort of things that it says are kids. Going to have to stop doing all this i mean this is tell you lou the minutes must be from my world became smaller and smaller and smaller until i ended up loving it and the box. Around it a very strong Magnetic Field on a card held in my head. Think of it like a real hard pressure my skin burned and that Wireless Access Point there just continues on saying with our students in the schools. We are just continually bathing our citizens in this microwave radiation it is certainly electro small and its getting worse. In my i phone or have a 1000 times the capability of that of the computers we had on board the space for at that time i mean its ridiculous that in my back pocket i have much much more capability than we had in the hood and the entire apollo program. Welcome back alex is in conversation with t. V. That abraham who is also behind the campaign for. Mike explains how it will make a difference to the lives of so many puppies when introduced next year. I remember when i finally got a dog that i was a lot. We got shot to kill soft hell kill for. A burrito. Folk. And he came back in the bus with me in the mom of his head sticking it was shopping by legal black hole much to the consternation of my father peed in every corner of the living room us as i remember. Is than not the can of is not the traditional way that people go poppies and the host important f. Is wrong with absolutely nothing wrong with that if youre going to the breeder which is fine and youre seeing the pop interacting with its mom and its littermates in the place it was born thats how you buy a puppy responsibly the alternative is to go to a rescue shelter which is also an appropriate way to get a dog so what lucys lore is all about really is moving forward is the only options available to anyone looking for a dog or cat is to go directly to the breeder and see the puppy or kitten interacting with his mom in the place was born great or to consider rescue as well which also have puppies and kittens that its removing the poorly bred irresponsibly bred dogs and cats from the system so much i want to turn to campaigning space yes because i really am fascinated by ho for support a number of members of parliament youve managed to achieve this law in england and wales and coming in scotland as it will how did you manage against the you were the backbone of the all consuming issue of blacks which has been dominating the parliamentary agenda how did you go about securing that initial attrition i think is one word to somebody up you know no doubt but yeah i think we did are when i was growing up i had no interest whatsoever in politics or history or law i was artists collecting caterpillars not even talking to other humans i was the nerdiest geekiest square ever. Will only cared about helping animals went to school continued to be quite geeky went at the brain averse thing discovered having a good time lets say in the wonderful city of edinburgh and then i became a vet obviously and i saw some puppies come into my emergency clinic one night suffering from a disease called poverty virus. And i identified where they were from they were from a dealer buying him in from a licensed puppy farm and that was the spark that ignited me then started to. Awareness talk shows because doing the t. V. Work at a time with paul ogrady in the morning so i had a media profile doing doctress called prop 8 which started in brighton where i live and then i moved to london but its a very retro wryly with super kings all these celebrities came on board to support raising the profile but it wasnt enough so i started to go to westminster to find out if there was more i could do i met some phenomenal parliamentarians many s and pull morning and lisa Cameron Martin day tommy shepherd really influential for my campaign and it was cross party so Caroline Lukas goldsmith Ross Thompson as well. Really committed Animal Welfare focused parliamentarians and we just carried on campaigning with rallies and events and drop ins and every parliamentary tool in the in the tool box which was accessible to campaigners and to find out for alan a wealth of kilter and say little politics because you couldnt think of 2 more the split m. P. s than the ones youve mentioned the Ross Thompson. Killer of johnston a tory from from above dean and tommy shepherd your left wing scottish nationalist for from from edinburgh are really quite disparate people but they were both share that concern for couldnt agree more its been a phenomenal cross party effort and labor as well you know roughly when he was in response to was hugely hugely influential see him and on the shuttle front bench it was an amazing filter actually of of taking away all the other stuff if you like and just focusing on something that people could unite around and push forward and finally get over the line and you know its thanks to michael gove who was the minister responsible for passing leases laura ingle and Lesley Griffiths of a say in wales and mary crucial in the Scottish Parliament you can identify your social through your fellow traveler. Same pieces so you get to get them all together. Get your politics here this is the level we have this is looser as last meeting in a way but we the lobbying was so so intense when we finally got it through we had a petition actually we did 2 we lost our 1st one in 2014 we got the 2nd 100000 in 2018 took 13 days i mean its insane how popular this became and it wasnt just popular investments to cross party it was popular with celebrities as popular with the public so we kind of covered every single angle and almost made it unbearable not to pass lucys due and also it was important to provide evidence one of the clinchers as well was setting up an a. P. P. J. From scratch so i was undersecretary whole part of the Parliamentary Group correct and i set up the a. P. G. For dog welfare and we were able to invite in organizations that were trying to fight and sabotage and block what we were doing and kind of out them so again lisa is the chair lisa cameron is the chair of the a p p g and many s. N. P. Members are part that too so as i said we used every tool available and more to finally get this lucys laura over the line which which we achieved last year and genuinely cant thank every parliamentarian celebrity member of the public enough for making that happen and we have an amended back in the day. People used to do for them by us and you go into the members lobby those of commons and if there was an issue for example to selling greenpeace which i was a supporter of then michel you made a statement or a speech that entire message board would lay top 4 messages below of course your campaign beloved in the social media as you tried to persuade the orrible members to come onto your your save so what was the killer of Carry Forward in the social media if you said to a lot of listeners weve got you know several. 100000 followers here waiting to see what youre going to say its a really good point i mean you know the sort of the 3 dimensional meeting m. P. s in westminster and i must have been to westminster over 300 times in the last 6 years every day off from work so still are prancing vet the whole time. They are on social media incredibly powerful to have a hash tag at the end like lucys law very sharable very memorable to. Im not one for entertaining trolls i tend to mute or just ignore i dont even block because then they know youve wasted a millisecond of your life thinking about them sensible advice to merely celebrities i mean absolutely what our philosophy in it wasnt just me doing it was a Small Coalition of campaigners all doing in our spare time was to pour praise on the good parliamentarians and i mean good by the ones who supported and i think if youre getting retreated and shared by mine paid carry out all these accounts plus my all Party Parliamentary group for the welfare. Other m. P. s will see that and they want to be a part of it and we always made lucys low completely inclusive whether you were working in westminster or living in australia everyone was welcome to be a part of lucys lore so it became a movement that we had very cool celebrities in a relevant sense is wreckage of ace and brian may and break to reilly so it became this sort of group on so many Different Levels influencing and being attractive to so many different demographics that i think it became quite hard not to want to be a part of and everyone was welcome so it just escalated and just got bigger and bigger more powerful and was a phenomenal. Phenomenal project really to lead and so youve got lucys law now going through the statute book to westminster and the programme for government for the for the Scottish Parliament. Secures that there so whats next for campaigning both 2 things actually tell me firstly how we will be able to know all the uses law is being affective of course what will the difference or me and secondly whats next i think well know what a difference it makes because there will just be a reduction in poppies entering that research or ease with problems i think will also have a reduction in talks with social problems and pain. Rip open speakers theyve been well adjusted and properly socialized as puppies and that goes for kittens too were also in terms of raising awareness about lucys law im working with defra now to you know when this campaign all come out in the spring because its already in law but it hasnt been. Would you call activated your supposed until the 6th of april says going to be a huge Awareness Campaign around that to make sure that when the law comes it works which is obviously very important and people know about it and next for me is this theres many other Animal Welfare campaigns im involved with and its a privilege and honor really to help other campaigns are there to give advice or to represent them or to or just to be on the phone for an hour and just giving some tips on what to do next. Good to cap salut the sooner book its funny you should say that but you know i am writing a book which is all about lucys law and theyll be full of campaigning tips as well but it would be how we kind of how we did it from having no resources no background in law no background in politics so changing the law in 3 Different Countries and effectively securing the best start in life for the dogs and cats not just now but well into the future well congratulations to you. In order to toss just excess im able to present you with the ill examine quicker no more thanks to those quite simple you were skilled quakers a graduate federal university a lawyer talking about all this courts nothing else works well you know plastered load all your Animal Welfare campaign and we will accept an official loosies Gore Campaign was very clear. This was the best results of a president and its represents Animal Welfare positive change for animals and one of the most important pieces of legislation this countrys ever seen i will have played thank you sir thank you. Anyone following u. K. Politics of the last 3 years would be forgiven for believing it has been ultimate a one trick pony successive break to deadlines the knife edge parliament votes the fall of 2 prime ministers the unlawful probing of parliament and finally the 1st winter lection since fair play in 1974 the astonishing twists and turns of the bricks melodrama have consumed the papers and dominated online and t. V. Coverage however all this notice it seems today show demonstrates that beyond the smoke of the back seat battlefield there has been a remarkably Successful Campaign to list cross Party Support to make progress on the rights of animals it may not be the issue which tops any partys manifesto but it is one which matters to many millions of people the story of lucys loss shows that there is political life beyond bricks it next week we move from a country entering a general Election Campaign to a country just finishing one how will the new Spanish Government tackle the political crisis in ca to do you join us to find tight but until then from alex and i and all of the shoe is goodbye for now you and i hope to see. Her. 30 years ago the burl and wallflower the cold war had essentially come to an end the fall of this cold war symbol was heralded as a new spring of nations and the end of communism decades on what is the legacy of this historic event of the promise of 989. 00 been fulfilled. If. This is the bad news in the united states. The. War in syria the cia and the us military were engaged in covert actions really throughout the world. Where they were assassinating populist leaders they were backing up right Wing Military funding an army was theres no. War because theres always a small. Cut. Off. In my i phone or have a 1000 times the capability of the of the computers we have on board the space for at that time i mean its ridiculous that in my back pocket i have much much more capability than we had in the order of the entire apollo program. Couzin the left in the us challenges to form a twit to stop with being saudi spice accusing them of gathering data on thousands of users critical of riyadh. Whistleblowers become the new frontline in the political battle being waged in washington and the bill to protect their identities is in the u. S. Senate. And 10. Killing hate in Hospitals Trust in england plans to root out racism by threatening to withhold treatment for people who will be stopped. A message today theres 0 tolerance towards a lead to a level of selfcontrol to treat people but should treat people. Without question