Calling on some to put sanctions on turkey now that you know ticking there is a friend and ally turkey now that you know ticking there is a friend and ally is the lawmakers in washington trying to put some distance now between the u. S. And turkey. The lawmakers in washington trying to put some distance now between the u. S. And turkey. They are but theres again theres theres theres a method to their madness they are but theres again theres theres theres a method to their madness here and they talk about isis isis them the genocide of the kurds and all these things its quite clear and they talk about isis isis them the genocide of the kurds and all these things its quite clear what they dont want to see is President Trump actually complete american player what they dont want to see is President Trump actually complete an american role from syria which by the way is totally totally illegal under both International Role from syria which by the way is totally totally illegal under both international and american domestic law because this would allow pretty russia an american domestic law because this would allow pretty russia syria and iran to cooperate on putting an end to this war in Eastern Syria syria and iran to cooperate on putting an end to this war in Eastern Syria bringing the kurds back under Syrian Government control and starting to wrap up this area bringing the kurds back under Syrian Government control and starting to wrap up this war and thats the last thing they want they want to American Forces to stay there we have to guard the old war and thats the last thing they want they want to American Forces to stay there we have to guard the oil and so forth which we dont we never say from whom and and as as a show shanks i actually still still believe in them in their opinion a political game where we have to keep pressure on the Syrian Government block the russian in a political game where we have to keep pressure on the Syrian Government block the russians and the iranians jim good to get your thoughts on this former u. S. Diplomat jim jeffords margins and the iranians jim good to get your thoughts on this former u. S. Diplomat Jim Jefferies my guests thank you. Thank you didnt jim thank you to you forget thank you. Thank you didnt jim thank you to you for cheating in stay with a bit longer but with more at the top of the hour. It shooting in stay with us a bit longer im back with more at the top of the hour. Glass keyser with more of my. Im max kaiser one more of my guide to financial survival this is. A guide to financial survival this is. My shoes by professional scallywags to earn money. For my shoes by professional scallywags to earn money. Thats right this has clearly not accountable and were just getting more and more to that thats right these hedge funds are completely not accountable and were just getting more and more to the. Destabilize the Global Economy you need to protect yourself. Stabilize the Global Economy you need to protect yourself and get informed. And get informed. And welcome to cross talk were all. Hello and welcome to cross talk were all things are considered times Peter Lavelle all across the middle east and beyond there are large scale protests and things are considered times Peter Lavelle all across the middle east and beyond there are large scale protests and growing political instability in many countries the old ways of doing business with only growing political instability in many countries the old ways of doing business with only in rich privileged elite while the prospects for the many are few and far in between rich privileged elite while the process. Stakes for the many are few and far in between the elites have answers for todays growing problems. For the elites have answers for todays growing problem. Rostock in global instability im joined by my guest. Was talking global instability im joined by my guest james jackets and watch and hes a former u. S. Diplomat and former advisor to the u. S. Senate republicans jaharis and watch and hes a former u. S. Diplomat and former advisor to the Us Senate Republican leadership in plymouth we have he is the executive editor of the news website look in leadership in plymouth we have he is the executive editor of the news website 21st century wired dot com and in norman we cross to Joshua Landis he is the 21st century wired dot com and in norman we cross to Joshua Landis he is director of the center of middle east studies at the university of oklahoma all right gentlemen crossed director of the center of middle east studies at the university of oklahoma all right gentlemen cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate joshua let me go to you 1st in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate joshua let me go to you 1st in norman all across the globe we have iraq we have we have lebanon we have in norman all across the globe we have iraq we have we have lebanon we have chile we have many other places around the world plus we have the whole division of chile we have many other places around the world plus we have the whole division over brags that in the u. K. We have the division in the United States theres a lot of over brags that in the u. K. We have the division in the United States theres a lot of instability out there but i want to talk about the specific country of lebanon just to start off here along stability out there but i want to talk about the specific. Country of lebanon just to start it off here a lot of people say that it is the bellwether for the region what happens there fatah people say that it is the bellwether for the region what happens there 1st is an indication of what possibly and probably will happen in a number of other countries 1st is an indication of what possibly and probably will happen in a number of other countries in the region how do you reflect upon that go ahead joshua well i think youre right left in the region how do you reflect upon that go ahead joshua. Well i think youre right lebanon is one of the is the 3rd most indebted country in the world riad salame a going on as one of the is the 3rd most indebted country in the world riad salame a the head of the central bank said that the country will crash economically if these protests are the head of the central bank said it the country will crash economically if these protests go on much longer but the protests are in many ways i think reflects go on much longer but the protests are in many ways i think a reflection of tremendous change in the world a an income gap that is yawning but i mean rich and poor and we can see that from a corruption of tremendous change in the world a an income gap that is yawning but i mean rich and poor and we can see that from across the world you know europe is the most equal part of the world and 3rd process the world you know europe is the most equal part of the world at 30 percent of wealth is held by the top 10 percent but the middle east the percent of wealth is held by the top 10 percent but the middle east is the worst its 61 percent of all wealth is held by the top 10 percent is the worst its 61 percent of all wealth is held by the top 10 percent now russia and america are hovering in the middle but percentage now russia and america are hovering in the middle but but its that you know the world is becoming more and more unequal and but its that you know the world is becoming more and more unequal and i think in places where you have bad governments like lebanon iraq egypt i think in places where you have bad governments like lebanon iraq egypt syria youre seeing this kind of explosion of syria youre seeing this kind of explode. Of real you know theres not enough jobs there is bad Government People are robbing at the top and real you know theres not enough jobs there is bad Government People are robbing at the top and the public feels like theyre getting a very bad deal and theyre up in arms and the public feels like theyre getting a very bad deal and theyre up in arms you know patrick and i did everything that joshua just said there but we have these rules you know patrick and i did everything that joshua to said there but we have these ruling elites as i said in my introduction you know still doing business as usual the old ways here elites as i said in my introduction you know still doing business as usual the old ways here and this is a real wake up call and one more thing we look at the disparity in income we can look and this is a real wake up call and one more thing we look at the disparity in income we can look at the usefulness of a lot of these countries a lot of people. Under age at the usefulness of a lot of these countries a lot of people. Under 18 and what prospects do they have here but my issue is with governance here team and what prospects do they have here but my issue is with governance here whats it going to take because as joshua pointed out here this is this can explode it is whats it going to take because as joshua pointed out here this is this can explode it is exploding go ahead patrick you know this is a very difficult topic to kind of sick splode and go ahead patrick. You know this is a very difficult topic to kind of get your head around because theres so many uprisings or political much political and get your head around because theres so many uprisings or political much political unrest happening simultaneously and i think theres a tendency by the media by political unrest happening simultaneously and i think theres a tendency by the media by political commentators by economists and political economist to try to commentators by economists and political economist to try to find some generalized terms to sort of describe whats like a global phenomena and some generalized terms to sort of describe what its like a global phenomenon i think that was a mistake that the west made with the arab spring by putting it all meant on i think that was a mistake that the west made with the arab spring by putting it all into one kind of soup and i think the reality is you have you have different into one kind of soup and i think the reality is you have you have different aspects and different characteristics with each of these there are common aspects and different characteristics with each of these there are commonalities however if you want to talk about overarching frameworks for and ality is however if you want to talk about overarching frameworks for analyzing this youve got post colonial identity issues youve got post colonial border mobilizing this youve got post colonial identity issues youve got post colonial border mapmaking issues that are still plaguing places like the middle east all the way back from making issues that are still plaguing places like the middle east all the way back from the old war one youve got neo liberal policies elian of neo liberal palm world war one youve got neo liberal policies elian of neo liberal policies you have u. S. Meddling which would go under the banner of imperial seas you have u. S. Meddling. Which would go under the banner of imperialism you could say u. S. Foreign policy this is also a big big issue you could say u. S. Foreign policy this is also a big big issue how that effects and how it has affected a lot of these countries in regions and you also have how that effects and how it has affected a lot of these countries in regions and you also have the failure of soviet era collectivist social economic failure of soviet era collectivist social economic structures and dependency issues and also dependency issue structures and dependency issues and also dependency issues with all of these countries economically i mean you look at a country like lebanon they have use with all of these countries economically i mean you look at a country like lebanon they have absolutely nothing that they produce they import everything their economic absolutely nothing that they produce they import everything they are economically completely dependent on things like foreign aid and in ngo sector akali completely dependent on things like foreign aid and an ngo sector economy that sort of drives the middle class in that country thats just one example of that sort of drives the middle class in that country thats just one example so its it is very difficult i think hong kong is also has been missed care of so its it is very difficult i think hong kong is also has been mischaracterized by the press because its it wasnt just up pricked arised by the press because it wasnt just an uprising. This is just how do. You do this it would had something to do with a change a change isnt just because one is going to have an imported revolution this is indicative of the into individual and ported revolution this is in. It could have of the into individualized young middle class Global Citizen yeah that exists. Young middle class Global Citizen yeah that exists virtually their identity from social media and i think that also drives a change virtually their identity from social media and i think that also drives change drives it but they dont know where to go with this change well the political organizing isnt there the drives it but they dont know where to go with this change well the political organizing isnt there the ideas arent there to go anywhere with it you know where you patrick you just did a ph d. On t. V. Ideas arent there to go anywhere with it you know what you patrick you just did a ph d. On t. V. In about 3 minutes thing to me let me go to james now you know i get anything about 3 minutes its amazing to me let me go to james now you know i guess you know that this has a lot to do with expectations and i think that you know patrick was hit the nail on the head that this has a lot to do with expectations and i think that you know patrick was hit the nail on the head there and be people being so interconnected is well here we had there and be people being so interconnected is well here but you know what what we have here is we we have global elites that are not deliberate you know what what we have here is we we have global elites that are not delivering theyre doing quite well and they dont have any solutions here and at the same thing theyre doing quite well and they dont have any solutions here and at the same time you have a lot of people protesting it in more than protesting out of the fact that they dont have a lot of people protesting it in more than protesting out of the fact that they dont see that they have a future here and that is a toxic mixture go ahead james dont see that they have a future here and that is a toxic mixture go ahead james it is that i think those are the maybe some of the factors we see in common with these things and then thats what it is that i think those are the maybe some of the factors. We see in common with these things and then as we all know that there are disparate causes like in chile its transportation prices in lebanon we all know that there are disparate causes like in chile its transportation prices in lebanon it was communications and cell phones and whatsapp and things like that i cant it was communications and cell phones and whatsapp and things like that i cant help but wonder though peter that what what more is there that meets the help but wonder though peter that what what more is there that meets the eye i always wonder why for example some protests in some countries get very famous always wonder why for example some protests in some countries get very favorable treatment from the global media which sarah shares the same neo liberal verbal treatment from the global media which sarah shares the same neo liberal ideology is what these people are supposedly protesting against in many cases and other ideology is what these people are supposedly protesting against in many cases and other cases they dont get such good press for example ive noticed in all of this very case is they dont get such good press for example ive noticed in all of this very few people mention sort of the the granddaddy of all this in the last year or so which is the yellow very few people mentioned sort of the the granddaddy of all this in the last year or so which is the yellow vests in france which i think very much were a working class phenomenon against the vests in france which i think very much were a working class phenomenon against the very things were describing but theyre bad you see because theyre there or theyre there or theyre not really or things were describing but theyre bad you see because theyre there or theyre there theyre not really theyre the bad kind of populist as they pose to whats wrong kong thats going to go on the populist either the bad kind of populist as they pose to what the long kong thats going to go on the populace the kids in hong kong are good ok that in the in the yellow vests or are disco yeah exactly kids in hong kong are good ok that in the in the yes. Yes or are exactly there to pay for it we should say about spain they have. Thats right in there to pay for it we should say about spain they have. Thats right and if the catalogs are protesting with thats good but if spaniards who want spain and if the catalogs are protesting with that is good but if spaniards who want spain to Stay Together are protesting well thats bad so i think theres i cant help but to Stay Together protesting well thats bad so i think theres i cant help but suspect that theres a theres a thumb on the scale and terms of our perception of that but suspect that theres a theres a thumb on the scale and terms of our perceptions i keep waiting for a levee to tell us which ones are the Good Management which opens out i keep waiting for a levy to tell us which ones are the good times in which the bad ones. But he can keep his mouth shut as far as im concerned judge bad ones. But he can keep his mouth shut as far as im concerned joshua you know. Patrick marty mentioned. Us and you know. Patrick marty mentioned. U. S. Involvement particularly in the middle east here where you know constantly putting pressure on the lebanese government particularly in the middle east here where you know constantly putting pressure on the lebanese government to get rid of hezbollah that is elected to office is to get rid of hezbollah that is elected to the offices across the country as a great deal of popularity and then that the in the in the and then like that all across the country as a great deal of popularity and then that the in the in the and then like threatening turkeys economy and things like that i mean this doesnt make things any turkeys economy and things like that i mean this doesnt make things any better i mean constantly using the dollar in the in the Financial System to punish better i mean constantly using the dollar in the in the Financial System to punish countries around the world that just takes more options off the table doesnt it go ahead josh with countries around the world that just takes more options off the table doesnt it go ahead joshua. It does you know look at sanctions is a very brutal brutal response it does you know look at sanctions is a very brutal brutal response to trying to regulate refine to your Foreign Policy to trying to regulate refine to your Foreign Policy because it hits people right across the board it is collective punishment in the worst way and worse it because it hits people right across the board it is collective punishment in the worst way and were seeing that in iran with sanctions on iran which of cause iran to escalate in that in iran with sanctions on iran which have caused iran to escalate violence because theyre not going to take it lying down and syria is in desperate straits violence because theyre not going to take it lying down and syria is in desperate straits and now the United States is eager to take the oil which syria needs in order to now the United States is eager to take the oil which syria needs in order to rebuild and lebanon of course the u. S. Has been for to rebuild and lebanon of course the u. S. Has been debating whether they should withdraw all foreign aid to lebanon because debating whether they should withdraw all foreign aid to lebanon because hizbollah is part of the government but you know the lebanese elite has hizbollah as part of the government but you know the lebanese elite has been. Sucking money out of this system for a long time has been. Sucking money out of this system for a long time and and you dont dont. You know even i dont want to be. The hope and hold on to a cold a lot of jobs as i think the whole world understands that and nobody wants lebanon to collapse because it really isnt the sort of loans or stands that and nobody wants lebanon to collapse because it really isnt the sort of loans. Of the middle east where people can retreat to and find some of the middle east where people can retreat to and find some kind of comfort some kind of a sort of leaven teen playground on one hand its a playground but on the other hand it said its a refuge for all kinds of thinking and kind of comfort some kind of a sort of leaven teen playground on one hand its a playground but on the other hand it said its a refuge for all kinds of thinking middle easterners who cant find a place in their own countries so it would be terrible easterners who cant find a place in their own country so it would be terrible if that if it collapses if it if it runs into bankruptcy which it could do it well if that if it collapses if it if it runs into bankruptcy which it could do at any moment and its hard to see how theyre going to how the lebanese are going in any moment and its hard to see how theyre going to how the lebanese are going to really sort out their economic problems because when we look at the arab spring more to really sort out their economic problems because when we look at the arab spring more generally which was framed of course as we just heard you know frame to turn generally which was framed of course as we just heard you know framed in terms of democracy. It there really hasnt been any signs of democracy. It there really hasnt been any serious economic discussions about how these how the middle Eastern Syria has economic discussions about how these how the middle Eastern Countries can get out of this terrible income gap the bad governance countries can get out of this terrible income gap the bad governance the corruption and thats whats going to take and if we dont really know the answers to that the corruption and thats whats going to take it is we dont really know the answers to that. And people are desperate but these movements that have been run by social media which are easy and people are desperate but these movements that have been run by social media which are easy to gather together yet dont have a leadership and that is something thats to gather together yet dont have a leadership and that is something thats plaguing the middle east its good on the one hand because it means that you cant report leg the middle east its good on the one hand because it means that you cant read press them but its bad on the other hand because when it comes time to taking control s. Them but its bad on the other hand because when it comes time to taking control they cant do it you know any and i guess let me go to patrick before we go to the break here i mean we cant do it you know any and i guess let me go to patrick before we go to the break here i mean we heard the term arab spring i always called the sunni winter and its only getting worse here how do you when you heard the term arab spring i always called the sunni winter and its only getting worse here how he would like to bomb that patrick go ahead sure i think joshua just touched on something that is very important to him that patrick go ahead sure i think joshua just touched on something that is very important needs to hes talking about you know no leadership with these virtual movements that really needs to hes talking about you know no leadership with these virtual movements that really exist are driven by social media no and so you have ideological people just are driven by social media no and so you have ideological people in old political elite reminisce from the the previous old left screaming in the corner of poland old political elite remanent from the the previous old left are screaming in the corner for attention saying over here over here i want to be leading this and the no ones for attention saying over here over here i want to be leading this and that no ones paying attention because thats not what young people are looking for what they want what they were looking for was visiting attention because thats not what young people are looking for what they want what they were looking for was visible. Its what the old left was looking for as well of a voice for the voiceless they found that ability its what the old left was looking for as well of a voice for the voiceless they found that voice online but unfortunately its individualized and its reflective of an attaboy so online but unfortunately its individualized and its reflective of an atom an atom and eyes to society and this is what the United States has exported this come an adamant ised society and this is what the United States has exported this kind of corporate ties to political identity that replaced class identity in the us and nato is in a corporate ties to political identity that replaced class identity in the us and nato is out on this is all that i have to jump in here were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue working out on this is all that i have to jump in here were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on global instability statement on. This question on global instability stay. Joined. Join me every thursday on the alex simon show and ill be speaking to guest of the world every thursday on the alex simon show and ill be speaking to guest on the world of politics sports business im showbusiness ill see if that takes Small Business im show business ill see that. Theme. Seems wrong. But i. Just dont call. Me. Just dont call. Me. To get to shape out these days to come out to the world to get to shape out these days to come out to and in detroit because of the trail. And in gaining strength because of the trail. When so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for Common Ground when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for Common Ground. Welcome back to crossfire where all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing global instability. Were all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing global instability. Ok lets go back to james here. Ok lets go back to james here you know there was a great song i think the clash there saying that you know you you know there was a great song i think the clash there saying that you know you should i stay or should i go ok and i think thats becoming the motto of the should i stay or should i go ok and i think thats becoming the motto of the trump and ministrations attitude towards syria which i this the trump and ministrations attitude towards syria which i. Admit its a dismal policy i mean we could do talking about it he did its a dismal policy i mean we could do talking about it here but i think theres broadly speaking i think there is a sense that there but i think theres broadly speaking i think there is a sense that the u. S. Will and will withdraw from the middle east if the u. S. Will and will withdraw from the middle east you know of course theyll be the the grahams out there and theyll be the tom or still be the the grahams out there and theyll be the tom cottons and people like that they want to keep the United States in the middle east but i think the writing is on the wall here and people like that they want to keep the United States in the middle east but i think the writing is on the wall here that itself is creating instability because so much dependency the you that. Itself is creating instability because so much dependency the u. S. Has created among many elites in the middle east that and theyre going to have to start thinking west is created among many elites in the middle east and theyre going to have to start thinking twice and they have social movements that see. Twice and they have social movements that see that are disenfranchised rising up and they are you going to have elites not being able to be clocked disenfranchised rising up in there are you going to have elites not being able to be clients the same kind of clients that they have been for decades go ahead james well i its the same kind of clients that they have been for decades go ahead james. Well i i think youre a little more optimistic than i am that were actually going to get out of the middle east we i think youre a little more optimistic than i am that were actually going to get out of the middle east we so i think that and i must know my mind my time frame and narrow my time frame is likely so i think that that i must know my mind my time frame and on my time frame is like 1015 years ago and its not in this Administration Im sorry to keep going. And 15 years old and its not in this Administration Im sorry to keep going. The ok youre right youre a right about that although what that looks like at the end of the the ok youre right youre a right about that although what that looks like at the end of the day i dont think anybody can say. Youre right i dont know how to say i dont think anybody can say. Youre right i dont know how much that relates to elites versus people you know one thing i notice about these protests much that that relates to elites versus people you know one thing i notice about these protests is that these are largely an urban phenomenon and you sort of wonder how representative the test is that these are largely an urban phenomenon and you sort of wonder how representative they are of the rest of the country you know everybodys making the comparison to the arab spring are of the rest of the country you know everybodys making the comparison to the arab spring very few people are making the comparison to the color revolutions weve seen over the last couple decades were very few people are making the comparison to the color revolutions weve seen over the last couple decades were which were largely i would say in many cases an astroturf phenomenon they really were which were largely i would say in many cases an astroturf phenomenon they really were not representative of the country at all although western governments were quick to say the ukrainian people of cho not representative of the country at all although western governments were quick to say the ukrainian people have chosen this the georgian people have chosen that so i do wonder sometimes about what is in this the georgian people have chosen that so i do wonder sometimes. Its about what the outside meddling in these things are as well as the underlying the outside meddling in these things are as well as the underlying goal between the elites and as patrick has pointed out and atomized especially between the elites and as patrick has pointed out and atomized especially younger people but youre right if we do end up getting out of the middle east and i think the younger people but youre right if we do end up getting out of the middle east and i think the really the big question is going to be what happens in saudi arabia yet if we really really the big question is going to be what happens in saudi arabia yet if we really and up withdrawing from the middle east because if youre looking for a powder keg theres one well and up withdrawing from the middle east because if youre looking for a powder keg theres one well james i can tell you is that what happens in saudi arabia i can tell you right away i dont know what it will be but it will james i can tell you is that what happens in saudi arabia i can tell you right away i dont know what it will be but it wont be good ok thats for sure ok joshua you know its been its been already been good ok thats for sure ok joshua you know its been its been already been brought up here night and i think its important to discuss here i mean youre an expert on lebanon you lived there for many murat up here night and i think its important to discuss here i mean youre an expert on lebanon you lived there for many many years i mean the one hand i do see the legitimate protests ok in the years i mean the one hand i do see the legitimate protests ok but you know james in washington does bring up the issue of outside meddling and weve seen it but you know james in washington does bring up the issue of outside meddling and weve seen this in hong kong and particularly how the media frames it so a tough question i suppose this in hong kong and particularly how the media frames it so a tough question i suppose but you know how legitimate is it and how much outside influences but you know how legitimate is it and how much out. Right influence you think is possibly there because there are people are saying sure us is in lebanon right now others think is possibly there because there are people are saying sure us is in lebanon right now others are saying this is grassroots this is legitimate people are sick and tired of it how do you ways are saying this is grassroots this is legitimate people are sick and tired of it how do you weigh those things joshua i think this is legitimate and i think people are sick and tired those things joshua i think this is legitimate and i think people are sick and tired and part of the right way you can tell it is that its not sectarian there are aired and part of the right way you can tell it is that its not sectarian there are of course everybody is trying to spin it as a sectarian yet you know spin their sectarian force everybody is trying to spin it as a sectarian yet you know spin their sectarian view and so you know a lot of the western press is is trying to highlight if you and so you know a lot of the western press is is trying to highlight the role is a lioness in that theres criticism of his ball and its the reason that the role is a lioness and that theres criticism of his ball and its the reason that its taking place is because hizbollah is to has gained such a predominant that its taking place is because hizbollah is to has gained such a predominant part in the government and so forth but you know i think the lebanese most people are in the government and so forth but you know i think the lebanese and most people realize you know most people are just worried about where theyre going to get enough money to live you know most people are just worried about where theyre going to get enough money to live expenses has gone through the roof you know electric is irregular you cant get good at it expenses has gone through the roof you know electric is irregular you cant get good internet all the services that lebanese want whether its picking up the garbage or internet all the services that lebanese want whether its picking. The garbage shirt just keeping the streets clean and not making sure people dont park on the sidewalk or just keeping the streets clean and not making sure people dont park on the sidewalk all those little insults that overwhelm you when youre in lebanon after a while i think of all those little insults that overwhelm you when youre in lebanon after a while i think of piled up and thats why youre seeing people joining hands from one end of the country piled up and thats why youre seeing people joining hands from one end of the country to the other its symbolic and its course it can be you know it can be twisted to look to the other its symbolic and its course it can be you know it can be twisted a little bit but i think at heart the lebanese really want their government to split but i think at heart the lebanese really want their government to spend some snow to solve some of these economic problems which have not been solved same question bend sums to solve some of these economic problems which have not been solved same question you patrick is you know how do you how do you put the scales there of you know people intentionally wanting to interview patrick is you know how do you how do you put the scales there of you know people intentionally wanting to inflame it from the outside and then these grassroots grievances that we were just numerated by clement from the outside and then these grassroots grievances that we were just numerated by joshua go ahead i think lebanon is actually a good example back to joshua go ahead i think lebanon is actually a good example back to and i agree with everything joshua said and i think its clear this is a genuine its very much and i agree with everything joshua said and i think its clear this is a genuine its very much resembles the occupy movement in the sense that the young people in lebanon regardless of resembles the occupy movement in the sense that the young people in lebanon regardless of their sect or their affiliations religious affiliations agree that theres an oligarchy their sect or their affiliations religious affiliations agree that theres an all or. Arche and the problem is an oligarchy kind of privileged in a hereditary class on fortune and the problem is an oligarchy kind of privileged in a hereditary class unfortunately its also a sectarian all of our key and thats a result of the confessional system thats been only its also a sectarian all of our key and thats a result of the confessional system thats been imposed on lebanon and we might see the end of that perhaps by the end of this and imposed on lebanon and we might see the end of that perhaps by the end of this to mulch of this period but i think more than that theres this issue to mulch of this period but i think more than that theres this issue of the United States meddling you have to address the fact that during the cold war there were the United States meddling you have to address the fact that during the cold war the number one priority of the us was to thwart or to move out of power the number one priority of the u. S. Was to thwart or to move out of power any left leaning government around the globe and that was number one priority that any left leaning government around the globe and that was number one priority that was in Central America south america in the middle east including Arab Nationalist was in Central America south america in the middle east including Arab Nationalist governments that were seen to be going in a socialist direction so governments that were seen to be going in a socialist direction so. Really disempowered a lot of countries over the years and i think the u. S. Has one really disempowered a lot of countries over the years and i think the u. S. Has won that cold war its one that imperialist war globally and its now ex that cold war its one that imperialist war globally and its now exported its atomized and individualize societies to the point where i dont think they have supported its atomized and individual i societies to the point where. I dont think they have the political direction or where with all our ability ideological ability to have the political direction or where with all our ability ideological ability to find out whats better whats a better option than neoliberal economics its the people i know whats better whats a better option than neoliberal economics its people are pains to find the answer to that question right now and so it turns and or cable or pains to find the answer to that question right now and so it turns anarchic in and our kids are seems to be expressed more than political organizing and rick in anarchism seems to be expressed more than political organizing and Real Solutions this is the problem that theyre all facing right now many of them oh thats not a Good Solutions this is the problem that theyre all facing right now many of them oh thats not a good message at all is go back to washington here if we could bring up the case of iraq message it all is go back to washington here if we could bring up the case of iraq here where you know the some of the troops that are withdrawn from syria american troops are being back here where you know the some of the troops that are withdrawn from syria american troops are being sent to iraq without the permission of the Iraqi Government and the whole issue of an american sent to iraq without the permission of the Iraqi Government and the whole issue of american troops in iraq or is hotly contested here how does that add to a lot of can troops in iraq or is hotly contested here how does that add to a lot of the protests because theres been a lot in iraq and a lot of people actually died go ahead james of the protests because theres been a lot in iraq and a lot of people actually died go ahead james. Yes thats right and you raise the issue of people dying. Yes thats right and you raise the issue of people dying you know weve had people being killed in chile over what over over bus prices i mean it weve had people being killed in chile over what over over bus prices i mean it is one of the things i cant help but notice it again not only in the in the arab spring but also in the color one of the things i cant help but notice again not only in the in the arab spring but also in the color revolutions is how the media covers the question of the use of illusions is how the media covers the question of the use of force that i say well you know you see for example i remember in kiev in 2014 there was force that i say well you know you see for example i remember in kiev in 2014 they were saying oh look at the police beat up the demonstrators in a fact if you look at the footage it was actually to demonstrate oh look at the police beat up the demonstrators and in fact if you look at the footage it was actually the demonstrators beating up the police whats the whats what is the the ratio of strangers beating up the police whats the whats what is the the ratio or the or the or the equities between what kind of force or restraint is being no or the or the or the equities between what kind of force or restraint is being used by the authorities on the one hand and how militant violence are and even using deadly if used by the authorities on the one hand and how militant violence are and even using deadly violence youre seeing sometimes from people in the crowds and you wonder look i my lenz youre seeing sometimes from people in the crowds and you wonder look im not im not a believer in the whole marxist paradigm that you know once the once the oppressed mass a lot im not a believer in the whole marxist paradigm that you know once the once the oppressed masses reach a certain level of misery they rise up as one in russias righteous indignation faces reach a certain level of misery they rise up as one and righteous righteous indignation things to. Dont happen that way people dont behave that way and still has to be some kind dont happen that way people dont behave that way and still has to be some kind of there has to be some kind of a even if they dont have leaders in the way that joshua revolve there has to be some kind of a even if they dont have leaders in the way that joshua refers theres somebody somebody ends up organizing this somebody ends up taking the theres somebody somebody ends up organizing this somebody ends up taking the lead and theres usually fairly small groups of people that sort of set the tone to lead and theres usually fairly small groups of people that sort of set the tone and get other people involved and i get i guess im a bit of a cynic i and get other people involved and i get i guess im a bit of a cynic i i always wonder who is the hidden hand behind the scenes and of course this is also i always wonder who is the hidden hand behind the scenes and of course this is also an accusation thats used by a by the american side you see theres an american diplomat so an accusation thats used by a by the american side you see theres an american diplomat saying that the problems in chile are being fed by who else by Vladimir Putin the russians are saying that the problems in chile are being fed by who else by Vladimir Putin the russians are causing it so thats more russian battling so i i dont know i always what causing it so thats more russian battling so i i dont know i always want to look at the different layers of the onion here and see what all is going on all the way through the different look at the different layers of the onion here and see what all is going on all the way through the different layers joshua you know blaming russia for everything is like going to the under layers you know joshua you know blaming russia for everything is like going to the onion website but anyway joshua you know youre youre a well renowned well known website but anyway joshua you know youre youre a well renowned well known. And one highly respected middle east expert here how how do you see all known one highly respected middle east expert here how how do you see western Media Coverage of whats happening in the middle east with these protests here do they have do they have the right optic go ahead. You know i think western Media Coverage of whats happening in the middle east with these protests here do they have do they have the right optic go ahead. You know i think the western media has gone through a real education over the last the western media has gone through a real education over the last 15 years trying to figure out the middle east and they really bought it 15 years trying to figure out the middle east and they really bought into. They bought into george bushs original or into. They bought into george bushs original argument that that america could scrape off these governments argument that that america could scrape off these governments and create democracy in the middle east i think today americans and create democracy in the middle east i think today americans are much more a bit more sophisticated and more cynical about whats going on theyre much more a bit more sophisticated and more cynical about whats going on in the middle east or exhausted a yeah there are exhausted and theyve spent you know in the middle east or exhausted a. Yeah there are exhausted and theyve spent you know President Trump is hitting that. Very hard meat he keeps on reiterating when President Trump is hitting that hitting that very hard meat you keep on reiterating weve spent 7 trillion dollars i think he said a trillion the other day but we spent a lot of money spent 7. 00 trillion dollars i think he said 8 trillion the other day but we spent a lot of money and americans havent paid for that theyve just put it on the credit card its going to come due and americans havent paid for that theyve just put it on the credit card its going to come due and and i think there they are feeling exhausted they want and and i think theyre they are feeling exhausted they want to get out they dont they realize that this is not a place that america can weigh they do want get out they dont they realize that this is not a place that america can wave a wand and fix were seeing this attempt to get out of afghanistan get out of said fix were seeing this attempt to get out of afghanistan get out of syria there are plenty of forces that are pulling us right back yeah and syria there are plenty of forces that are pulling us right back yeah and and americans dont want to abandon of course a position like afghanistan and just but and americans dont want to abandon of course a position like afghanistan and just but they are realizing that this is a complicated region i think that we are they are realizing that this is a complicated region i think that we are going to see america withdraw a lot more because they are more cynical about these forces and to see america withdraw a lot more because they are more cynical about these forces they realize theres not an easy answer that underneath the surface they realize theres not an easy answer that underneath the surface of language like we all want a better shake there are of language like we all want. Better shake there are a lot of sectarian forces there are really actual forces and theyre ethnic for sectors that are not hairy and forces there are we actual forces and their ethnic forces that are not easy to contain us and then be to can even terry one and the eloquent can be very and and and a strong and decisive strong end and then end them and then america cant commit pantilimon them weve seen them to sweep the kurds trying to us which side with the kurds then trying to side with the currents that dumping the kurds now is something that the kurds very crass crap now about for us instead of very crass grab for oil in syria which is which is i think to a certain degree reflective of the experience which is which is i think to a certain degree reflective of. The exhaustion of americans and now this sort of money grab were just going to go for the oil satirise option of americans and now this is sort of money grab were just going to go for the oil sattar rabia grab the oil and syria it is it undermines grab the oil in syria it is it undermines. Whatever principles america can bring to the table and it really should whatever principles america can bring to the table and it really shows an ugly face to the power in the middle east today shows an ugly face to power in the middle east today that. That doesnt have the answers yeah but i mean that. That doesnt have answers yeah but i mean you will have to end on that point here but you know the lack of principles stealing someone elses now through will have to end on that point here but you know the lack of principles stealing someone elses now to resources so they cant rebuild i mean i dont know how more pathetic back can be to resources so they cant rebuild i mean i dont know how more pathetic back can be ok but unfortunately its not really part of that way in western media gentlemen thats all the time we have ok but unfortunately its not really portrayed that way in western media gentlemen thats all the time we have many thanks to my guests in washington plymouth and in norman and thanks to our viewers for watching as many thanks to my guests in washington plymouth and in norman and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember. Here darkie see you next time and remember. Im going to fulfill the repeated promises of politics to the people i promise im going to fulfill the repeated promises of politics to the people i promise to be you know its all bots. To be you know its all bots be. Ready for a. Place ready for a. Pretty good burka now you want to 1st read that. Now you want to 1st read that. No. Longer. No. Longer. Bald. Bald. Big. Big day. All across the middle. All across the middle east and beyond there are large scale protests and growing political instability in many countries east and beyond there are large scale protests and growing political instability in many countries the old ways of doing business but only in rich privileged elite while the prospects was the old ways of doing business but only in rich privileged elite while the prospects for the many are few and far in between the elites have answers to the many are few and far in between the elites have the answers for todays growing problem. Growing problem. What politicians do. They put themselves on the line what politicians do. They put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected. So when you want to be president they did accept the reject. So what you want to present. Some some want to. Have to do i think the press has allowed the full story of the morning cant be good for. The press to say what the full story of the boy cant be good. Im interested always in the waters about how. Im interested in the waters about how. This should. Or should. U. K. Inquiry into the deadly 2017 grand for the tower block u. K. An inquiry into the deadly 2700. 00 grand for the tower blazes called out significant systemic failings in the london fire brigade of the days has called out significant systemic failings in the london fire brigade and little spotlight placed on city and government to authorities have told us the focus is misplaced the spotlight placed on city and government to authorities have told us the focus is misplaced. Far as it did not call for the foreign town. Far far as it did not call for the foreign town. Did not return or response or sponsor for free. From from. The outside of the sas how are. They really hitting new report by Human Rights Watch said the u. S. Sanctions are preventing ordinary iranians from accessing like Human Rights Watch has said the u. S. Sanctions are preventing ordinary iranians from accessing lifesaving medicine. Saving medicine. With the hungry and pm d irritating western allies to the very same day hungry hungry and pm irritating western allies to the very same day hunger