Transcripts For RT Going Underground 20240713

That the war was illegal that your took out the Public Interest defense yeah so people m i 5 was just next door people there know that even if there is a Public Interest in revealing the information they have no right to do so i have no right to do so and in this day and age where you know were talking about you know social justice and accountability and transparency you know the this doesnt set a good example above and beyond the legal. Inability for anyone to whistle blow they threatened you. They threatened your marriage and its exposed here that they wanted to deport you or as an act of revenge when you make sure he had already applied for asylum yes which was denied. Yes and thats when you married him yes did he pay you absolutely no im sure i dont mean to upset you its just that your husband is muslim in the prosecution will be looking for motive my motive was to stop who and save lives i failed now that actually wasnt retaliation and it may look like that in the film but what happened was he was an Asylum Seeker and they have been denied and so his case is moving forward in parallel to my case its actually an amazing coincidence that had i not been facing criminal prosecution at the time he would have been deported so its actually quite a. Nice bit of Silver Lining to this whole issue and do we move francos it is you wrote the memo that you exposed no i hasnt come out although there was a rather bizarre incident when we were in San Francisco about a time this year and after the screening we had a q. And a and there was this question and this this sort of slightly bent out of the figures that you may find that frank is hiding in plain sight this is the guy who said to send emails saying the u. N. Security Council Members should of there are in fact we black man to support an illegal war. Jews think that do you think that today they would try and psychologically destroy a whistle blow dry just open the British Government trying to sex up the case for war i dont see why they would do things differently i mean the. You know they sample of the iraq war the buildup to the iraq war the propaganda the lies have all been exposed now you know there were no weapons of mass destruction the u. N. Didnt authorize the invasion of iraq therefore the war is illegal but theyre still trying to 6 extraordinary that theyre still trying to defend it. We employed to do i translated signals intelligence and i reported anything i thought might be of interest my clients the Foreign Office the ministry of defense so you work for the British Government no not really no governments change i work for the british people so if they can get away with it then surely they think they can get away with it now i dont think it will change anything what was the impact in those rotating members of the Un Security Council countries like chile which of course had the british back to pinochet did they have a big impact or i think it did i mean yeah certainly in chile the chilean ambassador at the time he was very very distraught that you know this relationship he thought. Chile had repaired with the United States you know this they had open trade negotiations and all the rest of it. And to see that they were still doing this sort of thing decades after theyd you know. And created a coup in chile. You know supported a very. Appalling dictator that this sort of thing was still carrying on we know in effect from greg dyke the former director general that he was. Thrown out of the b. B. C. Effectively for doubting the reasons for the iraq war vet david over the head of g. H. Q. Pursuit david kelly. Arguably a whistleblower who of course died how do you think the film portrays kamel ahmed we do invite him all is the director of editorial policy now at the b. B. C. And in the film is shown to be someone who says your story should be recovered i think you know in any news room i feel that you know its right and proper for people to have different opinions and i think has position as perfectly clear you know he wanted to state the to be the sort of devils advocate as you like because everybody was so keen to get the story out here. Just warning them you know. Just be careful this could be could be fraudulent however you know is it right and proper for a reporter to take sides on a war and that is what he i believe his position was at the time i think as a reporter you should always try to remain as. Unbiased as possible so that you can actually you know see things from a balanced point of view but its clear in the film that you didnt leak the memo deliberately to the Guardian Media groups prowar observer newspaper you know it just ended up at a newspaper that supported the war yeah yeah i mean thats kind of ironic really but its a credit to the observe and roger alton who is the at us are at the time that despite the fact that they were probable they still printed this expose which was very much showing you know showing it to be anti war on that particular presentation during the delay in publishing it helped to create this circumstances in which britain went to war in iraq in a you never know do you i mean this is the own one of the things im slightly regretful of that they have to go to such Great Lengths in in authenticating and what happens when that information is out you know that information comes out. The m. P. s and you know various members of the civil service. They are then privy to that information you know it is from that information that they can act and we have we havent seen any evidence that they acted on that information and that as want to supplant me given to me blair as to will or that bunch of people wanting the war in iraq jim you are more worried about you exposing the floor in the official secrets act or exposing the fact what they were doing was tantamount to. Facilitating the supremum war crime under the u. N. Charter i mean we dont know i dont object to being asked to connect information that could help prevent a terrorist attack. Which they object to is being asked to get the intelligence to help fix a vote at the u. N. And deceive the world into doing to or it could be both you know i mean on the one hand they wanted to set an example of me they didnt want to have Intelligence Officer on under crossexamination. They dont want the official secrets act to have a defense perhaps i dont know and but ultimately i i really think it had something to do with the attorney generals advice or goldsmith yes theres now a pundit on many programs talking about whether we should go to war in syria with iran is these are all very rehabilitated people which is a shame nothing will be rectified if these people are not held to account arguably you were luckier than other reveal a solve a legit war crimes you innocent is is in jail in london but the United Nations repertoire on torture and arbitrary detention different repertoires are covered in favor Chelsea Manning of course is in in jail again refusing to. Destroy. Julian is. Things actually worse than when you were a whistleblower while they may or may not be worse but theyre certainly not any better i mean i think. We this is an issue that is absolutely crucial it is an issue that needs addressing we cannot have democracy when we lock up and throw away the keys of the people who are trying to bring illegality immorality. Crimes and fraudulent behavior. Into the Public Domain i mean that is not a transparent liberal democracy that we are supposed to be living in but it wasnt long ago that there was a war in syria David Cameron tried to bring it lots of tony blairs old people in the new liberal new. Part of the global labor party theyre all still there making the case for war hilary benn do you think this film is going to convince them so im going to appear for me may be raw i really think that cant be a more timely moment for this film to come out and thats why im you know spending a lot of time trying to promote the film because i really think people need to wake up and and revisit the issues of iraq what took us into iraq and and actually you know i think seriously about what one of the National Interests i mean where we say we do things in the National National interest of National Security invading iraq has neither improved National Security nor benefited on National Interest a visual sequence is gone thank you thank you barcelona on fire as spain jails democratically elected politicians for 100 goodbye years with defacto e. U. Backing we speak to a lawyer for one of the politicians being on the down and a member of the pro got a lonely approach you as angry all this it will go about doing going underground. Facebook and google started with a great idea and great ideals unfortunately it was also a very dark side. They are constructing a profile of you and that profile is real its detailed and it never goes. Away turns out that google is manipulating your opinions from the very 1st character that you type into the search bar it will always favor one dog food over another one comparative Shopping Service over another and one candidate over another they can suppress certain types of results deiced on what they think you should be seeing if they have this kind of power then democracy is an illusion the free and Fair Election doesnt exist the more road we give them the sooner we all hand. In a world of big part of the new lot and conspiracy its time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that Mainstream Media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the path and shouting past each other its time for Critical Thinking its time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. There are no official statistics in india consenting children who have been long still separated from their parents some are there to estimate that every minutes in the country the child goes missing. On out. There. Are you looking at. The National Human Rights Commission stated that 44000. 00 minors go missing every year while the police quoted 80 the United Nations Childrens Fund has described the situation as genocide and various sources suggested in. There are several 1000000 missing women and children. The world is driven by. Thinks. We. Welcome back while black city has continued to accuse u. K. Media of the remaining agenda the violence of pro e. U. Governments continues unabated with barcelona on fire in recent days after the mass jailing of democratically elected catalonian politicians im joined now by skype from inverness by the former isnt beyond me but to pull morton who supports catalonia independence paul thanks for coming on the show what have you made of these alarming pictures perhaps not given that much up promotion on some of the mainstream channels the pictures a bus alone on fire i think it sounds like the rest of us that images that were seeing not only on social media from barcelona other cities as well across scotland you know kind of going i think i just want to particularly badly affected by the tolerance here of the spanish authorities. I think it started to consider the speed of democracy within the e. U. Its cheating peaceful people im not sort of we i think many many people are disappointed by what they see the Spanish Government says the catalans should have called a referendum live on the land wonderland the new European Commission president has dismissed catalonia as not to be. Little problem when any pay a piece from spain couldnt turn up in the ball because they were in jail kind of on the out so it is a political. Problem for the sponsors government as a political problem for the European Union to say its a political problem for the United Nations as well we ought to be very clear here that the people of catalonia us with any other people anybody else in the world have an absolute right to determine the sort of government that they want to. Control their society the people of very strong views about this ive been there i was placing the directly and among the 1st of october 22nd team i spoke with confluence across their country and there was a significant determination that they wanted to control their own destiny they wanted to be fully autonomous selfgovernment theyve got a right to make a decision they had a right to have a referendum the spotters authorities i think are being pedantic an extreme by saying that its a feature of the spanish constitution if asked the case the spanish constitution needs to be changed to reflect International Law and i think that the European Union needs to start to consider the right state and the arguable rights of peoples opinion and start to be a little bit more vocal of us this is a mole this fathers government on the treatment that is currently meeting at 2 european such as the idea that. Confluence can be elected to the European Parliament and they may be diffused the right to take their seat i think it reflects very badly on the European Union the current leadership of the particular quality i think needs to take a long hard look at their behavior. Please their their views of. The rights of the people who have the un there when the illegal referendum the will of the people was in that catalonia how do you. I think some of the politicians will be in jail theyre going to be reacting to the thing in total 100 years was meted out to these elected politicians dont show the new any of them its not general franco is it so i think. Certainly playing a role in what were seeing today in. Barcelona props in particular how may and you know some of the politicians that are not in jail i would question whether it was an illegal referendum ive said already that confluence have a right to determine their own future noxon shined an International Law and i think International Law all words usurps them a stick law so they have a right to hold it i thought it done they have a right to exercise democratic free. Geo people for having done and i think reflects very badly on the spotters government all those in jail and i would be thinking i think they will take the view view that they are standing up for their country their stonily got for rights it is a price worth paying feed off that doesnt come cheap ok but in fronts 10. 00 deaths have been linked to the g. L. A. Zone protests in catalonia hundreds and hundreds of arrests what does the e. U. Have to do to make you say you know what the s. N. P. Should be supporting breaks that well i dont think they seem people a person who are picks would be very disappointed to view the European Court shaped is a significant social and for we should all place one of the significant achievements of the European Union as its called today is the fact that it has been all peace to you but its only one or perhaps 2 generations ago that is what he was fighting there was total war across you know. We would all losing folly members weve all lost family members not complex so the fact that we moved away from not that we all live in. Peacefully together they way to the cio nicole you dont call the war in yugoslavia in europe a war you think youre between a peace i think compared with the total war of the 2nd world war i think we however left in peace and weve been fortunate to work towards a and what were seeing today in countries like spain. Perhaps elsewhere shouldnt necessarily tarnish our views of the european cochaired i think what a should do here is it invites us to plays our position with and due to the utopian leadership is doing. Our duty people are placing upon them we have any. Rights we want them to be recognized and point out people wants to target or in future we must recognize them are how hard it should be for some people as a right that should be exercised and can be exercised and should be treated with respect not responded to with horrific levels of violence ok just finally and briefly though ironically Scottish Independence though is going to. Be the cause of it is going to benefit from the brics a debate nigel for things not going to vote for Boris Johnsons deals basically hasnt brecks it in the whole debate over it its a bricks if thats pave the way for Scottish Independence the Scottish Independence movement has been running now her about 300 years just over i think it is fueled by a tax cut you know scotland wants to be part of the European Union it wants to be a all you can trust a partner to other utopian nations we want our views to be respected and you know we are determined to push forward with our time when the way since our government is doing everything it possibly can to ignore the people of scotland and to make sure that we have no say whatsoever in our future democracy but will and thank you well scotland has been providing sanctuary to. Former cabinet occasion minister farrakhan 30 joining me now from glasgow is a defense lawyer amar anwar thanks so much africa going back on so what did you make of the 100 years of sentences against democratically elected politicians that spain and what does it mean for your client the elderly patient minister i think is an outrageous sentence not entirely unexpected but exposes the spanish Justice System as being deeply flawed we had described during the original case for klara that the despondent system Justice System in the sunny state stood accused of operating a operate in political persecution that these individuals important trial was politically motivated done it was an act of political vengeance we have seen acts of violence perpetrated by the police by but the catalan please and by the Spanish State on the Spanish Police on hundreds of thousands of individuals youve got to peacefully without violence and we saw that on october the 1st the actions of the state come as no surprise we are now preparing for a new International Extradition warrant to be applied for against caught up in city and we intend to robustly defend that because we believe that she will not receive due process we will leave like the 9 catalans and presently sentenced to over 100 Years Imprisonment for carrying out the democratic will the democratic mandate of the gotland people we expect kauto would not also would not receive a fair trial and we believe that this would be yet again another act of political vengeance perpetrated by the Spanish State but we invite the spanish ambassador on the show is it going to help that the president of the European Union European Commissioner zuma under land appears to be saying that the jailing of e. U. Politicians is not a political issue presumably paving the way for your client the former Education Minister and others to go to the European Court of what the European Court what fortune fortunately we have a separation of powers and in the belgian courts in the german courts and we had hoped to tested this last year in the in the Scottish Court sided with the spanish decided to withdraw the warrants but the courts already have shown the. That they are willing to stand up that the rule of law applies that we believe in human rights and right throughout europe in the only seen places doesnt seem to apply of course was in within spain so its not really a question of the u. A. E. President i have to say the European Union and most of most of the leaders have been complicit in their silence or worse than complicit in silence they have provided active support for the Spanish State when they have carried out violence and i think actually its a very dangerous moment for the European Union because who are they they act with complete utter hypocrisy to point fingers other countries outside the European Union but they dont have the guts and they dont have the dignity and the respect for the rights of people within the European Union to simply point out so they get spain to say stop acting like franco wants to stop acting in a manner that youre doing because you have ignited flames that cannot be extinguished no but its not a question of if but its a question of when catalonia will be free because there is no other solution the people are out on the streets and the spanish cannot jail 2345000000 cattle and theyre not going back into their houses theyve had enough and in the history of catalonia says itself where 9 out of 11 catalan president s over the last 100 years have been jailed exiled or executed it shows exactly the way that spain deals with catalonia and the catalan people and enough is enough as you say barcelona has been on fire your client the education for education its a caravan site it says she wants the end of the spanish occupation soldiers in catalonia and amnesty to Political Prisoners and the referendum and those demands only ever going to really be met on the streets of catalonia off the streets of oslo while power rests with the people and i would say that some seen with horror in recent days that tension has been diverted to the fires attention has been diverted to try and split the movement to try and blame individuals on the streets and ill say this if you and i as a criminal defense Lawyer Police officers of course have a right to use force but it has to be reasonable legitimate and proportionate and when it is not reasonable legitimate. Proportional people have a right to self defense but what we have seen on a huge scale time and time again in catalonia and hundreds of thousands of people acted civil disobedience act with restraint and act with nonviolence yet what we see is an old shia violence unleashed by the Spanish State by them also so under the control of the Spanish State upon these people and yet we do not see that being condemned at the end of the day is amnesty for the council on place and has the right to return to political exiles and if so if the people demand it then for there to be a vote on an agreement by spain because what do they do what exactly are they scared of you know they do not own the cattle on people they are not as slaves and we saw in this country in the United Kingdom what we had a peaceful referendum and whether the conservative party like to unknot they allowed a referendum to take place in scotland because the mandate was from the Political Parties within scotland for the right to vote for independence and the parallel solutions parallel analogy i can join as thats the idea that its a moral nicholas study and didnt get a section 30 order allowing her the right to vote for independence from Boris Johnson and if nicolo went ahead with the vote anyway the idea is this that in a few weeks time if nicolas sturgeon was then to find itself in a prison up in scotland to have half the cabinet in scotland in prison and for a after actually after that Boris Johnson had sent him 15000 members of the metropolitan police to bats and people to the ground to use Water Cannons and to use plastic bullets and then we find his half a Scottish Government in prison and the other half in exile you know seeking sanctuary in European Countries yet that is the reality that we see in the heart of europe and what the practice is that spain has operate to did they have reverted shamefully back to the days of general franco and enough is enough they and they should be suspended from the European Union for their actions and they should be taught a lesson because if we do not raise our voices now and if the european leaders do not act then they have no right to point the finger of blame or anybody else outside the European Union because it is complicit with it so. Nice hypocrisy thank you thank you for the show will be about 136 years from today the usa was arguably defeated in lebanon when around 251 soldiers were killed by antiimperialist militants in beirut leading to a u. S. Rejoinder when thinking about social media dont forget to subscribe to our you tube channel. Facebook and google started with a great idea and great ideals unfortunately it was also a very dark so. They are constructing a profile of you and that profile is real its detailed and it never goes away turns out that google is manipulating your opinions from the very 1st character that you type into the search bar it will always favor one dog food over another one comparative Shopping Service over another and one candidate over another they can suppress certain types of results diced on what they think you should be seeing if they have this kind of power then democracy is an illusion the free and Fair Election doesnt exist the more we give them the sooner were all. So what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have its crazy to confront ation let it be an arms race is very Dramatic Development only hastily im going to resist i dont see how that strategy will be successful at very critical times to sit down and talk. Divisions in spain deep into the catalonia crisis intensifies and separatist protests now into their 2nd week i guess the issue. The solution is quite easy its the same time to negotiate how to reform them off so that that mission so you dont want to negotiate you want the government to upset your good deeds you also become an 8 year old rabbi helping helping palestinian farmers in the west bank as briefly beaten by ouattara led to bin. Laden settlers. Could then be Jewish School with. The students the