Are what do the classical principles of International Humanitarian law distinction proportionality precaution mean when you are confronted with urban contexts so for fear with densely Populated Areas in which you use modern technology modern weapons and what are you are awfully geishas to precaution and its obvious that i see or see as the advocate for protection of civilians may not always have the same. Appreciation and the same exactly according to judge military operations us military story so its really about this dialogue between the humanitarian protection perspective and the military necessity perspective now there has been no one whos been lambasted more for supposin disregard total disregard of the humanitarian law down the syrian authorities and i take it. From some of your interviews that this phrase total disregard may not be accurate in describing the stance of the of the Syrian Government in fact i know that the i. C. R. C. Has done a study looking specifically into where when the law was upheld and one it was broken in the syrian context do you understand now the drivers the incentives and the hurdles that allowed or not allowed the syrian authorities to respect the humanitarian the International Humanitarian or in the context when it was very difficult you have to admit it was very difficult to respect that law i c r c is not an advocate of generalizing. Condemnations or generalizing praise on the International Humanitarian law we are very much aware and have been for 156 years and how of the complexity of the battlefields and the difficulties as technology is battlefields actors and contexts evolve to apply the basic rules of International Humanitarian law so each case has to be looked at individually we dont have armed forces or armies or nonstate our crew just only does required in International Humanitarian law this happens very very we dont have those who respect perfectly so we do recognize that the syrian context has always been a difficult complex its a context of fragmented actors of multiple actors of unclear chains of command. Certainly on the level of nonstate armed groups but even complex chains of commands in the syrian. On the side of the syrian army we have seen the complexities also with russias involvement in syria of how you partner with. Amongst 2 armies and where are the rules and responsibility of each one of those armies and i think this workshop. You have alluded to is a great opportunity to look. At this link or just will be publicized trying to get some information now if you will for the benefit of general audience you you mention those principles that guide the legal use of force in an Armed Conflict one of those principles with the military in the city as well and i think all the military is operating. On the syrian battlefield with claim that they take all these principles into account who is their job whether they do their proper it i think its not about together its not about the judgment its about not knowing generally its well its about is looking at your rules and then see what you can introduce in your Decision Making process to have at the end of the day better results i dont think that the end result is the effort of i. C. Or c. The process is the effort of i. C. R. C. Looking at what are the precautionary measures that you can introduce i give you an example. There is a big question today in armed forces on where you introduce for instance the lawyers the practitioners in the Decision Making process you can introduce them at the beginning you can give them a last word at the end whether a military attack is in conformity with the law you have different results you can for instance in urban warfare you can have longer or shorter or no warning periods for the civilian populations you have a lot of things you can do went which are completely below the rather screen of public controversy i think we have to go to the granularity of each and every issue and also to recognise there is nothing like virginity in war it is always complex the balance is difficult and i think its about how do you. When you do reviews when youre too training when you are to manuals how and what do you train to your troops but i think its also important to sort of call a spade a spade and throughout this conflict where hard times and times again that assad is killing his own people its a trial now that the Syrian Government is going on you hear it. But not from us. I mean the youre dealing with the conflict as it is not just as it relates to you but the in all its complexity and some forces like the Syrian Government have to deal with with the security challenges or pally other sides like the United States for example may authorize convert operations which may be. Do a lot of harm to this a 1000000000 population but make it much less visible thats why i am asking you who is there to judge whether the laws are applied fairly because you know that western powers for example made it part of their policy to diligent the allies the Syrian Government because of those allegations that the use of force that the disrespect for the humanitarian law is all abundant in syria with regard to i. C. R. C. Israel our role is not to judge our role is to facilitate a better implementation and to support states who have signed up to the Geneva Conventions in their effort there are as you know national and International Accountability structures which are here to deal with violations with serious violations with war crime with crimes against humanity you know what these structures are but deliberately i. C. R. C. Has stood away from accountability processes i think still today the prevalent accountability has to rely on the national processes on the processes within armed forces to see whether their directive and their instructions have been respected and in case you also know that there is an International Criminal court there are procedures internationally to deal with war crimes and crimes against humanity but there are only a little italy there are 2. With regard to the respect of International Humanitarian law and ours clearly with regard to our mandate from the Geneva Convention is the one on supporting and facilitating implementation and this is a different pathway. That itself let me ask you then a specific question because there is one battle been constantly perspective. In the syrian the war and im talking about the battle over in flip and i heard you say that due to the interrelated. Thats between this of alien population and rebels you personally cannot imagine how a lawful war can be waged in lip are you saying that an alternative that is living the situation as it is where tons of thousands of extremists i mean terrorised by un stand there its waging attacks on the military on this of alien population in the state controlled areas is a better outcome should they should these guys just be left to their own devices when we will create for highest precautions in context were civilians and military is ours so we intertwined them when civilian and military infrastructure are so intertwined i think this is really the time for. Negotiations for. Alternative solutions you have seen for instance in the context of for their poll that the Russian Military negotiated for quite some time the evacuation of seeing there are no other areas these people could be evacuated to unless our example switzerland wants to take their man this is exactly what the goshi ations are here for and i think it is important that even in the context of International Humanitarian law one in view of the prevalent risk such complex situation in oregon warfare be it most rule or easily eventually in the future that space is given to alternative solution to a massive military attack in europe in urban areas we dont see that. This should not happen but what we do see a year is the appropriate time and space has been given has to be given in order to find alternative solution for civilian populace whats left of our we have to take a short break now well be back in just a few moments stay tuned. And a very warm welcome to you youre watching us inside. The conventional moment allows him should ask for the astrovan he aint seen and done wonders for the dutch girl who shouldve been lucretia she was. Rich and she just. Disc in the. Community. He should. Know new car so sit on the open to much to me mama its just a back. And. Welcome back to worlds apart with good arm our president of the International Committee of their brother crossed mr mara just before the break we were talking you were talking about. The importance of negotiations and allowing safe spaces especially for the civilians and this is what has been done in the context of i believe for at least a year now but during that time the terror trick controlled by. Menu reincarnation of alqaeda in the ad lib province has increased from some 57 percent to around 4045 percent and these people continue launching attacks that harm the civilian population elsewhere when you advocate for that as for that small process for essentially ignoring the military necessity because there is a military need to take them out indirectly prevalent joining the civilians in rebel controlled areas it is part of International Humanitarian law that there must be a reasonable balance between military necessity and the protection of civilians if in the context like you would leave the protection concerns our soul visible so great and so preponderant it is important that in the balanced as is factored in we cant have rules of war and International Humanitarian law only following the logic of military necessity thats the very essence we cannot ignore it altogether in a very certainly cannot ignore it and thats our point all together as you may need here in organization and as guardian of the Geneva Conventions that we are trying to see through dialogue through your many tarion activities that we offer space also for those ponder ation to be done that we try to be and to advise. Countries and to cross sexually and globally also to all learn from one battlefields to the other what precautionary steps can be but we dont exclude military operations its the very essence and difference between the humanitarian and the Human Rights Organization now a few years ago i heard you say that the conflicts in syria and iraq allowed the i. C. R. C. Its you develop a more sophisticated. With the dollar for distinguishing between civilians and combatants are you still confident that you can do that especially in the syrian context and especially as it relates to your mind there is an younger man who may not have reached 18 young but her have been trained by their fathers to kill or who have witnessed killing i mean from a humanitarian point of view there they are civilians but from a Security Point of view they are present them as a bigger risk than their elderly grandmother serial have to agree to that well the i. C. R. C. In the customary International Law studies has proposed to deal with the distinction of combatants and civilians and we have always maintained that it is the direct participation and the immediacy of direct participation which make a civilian the combatant and make the civilian lose its status so whether. Somebody is a minor but is carries a gun and is involved in a military operation though he loses civilian status when he is a minor according to the Childrens Convention then we still have a preference to look at also as victims who have been drawn by. Into this situation so its upon duration of the concrete realities that we have to be able to do or the present moment but i do not neglect. The the fact that a lot of young men below 18 have been weapons be averse in some of these conflicts and has been involved is a big challenge to International Humanitarian law it takes away a certain stability that the International Humanitarian law had previously an interim stay. War fear and disease of course the new battlefield reality which is of concern to us now i think its also a challenge when it comes to combat and youve personally called for what you say is humane treatment of former combatants and subjecting them to a fair trial. How confident can you be of somebody who invested 5 or 70 years of his life fighting alongside isis witnessing and participating in all the atrocities can ever become a former combatant. Well look our experience over the last decade and i would say over the last 100 years of clearly demonstrated and showed that whether the yard prisoners of war combatants who came into the attention of state or nonstate armed groups that ill treatment of these people will lead to another sort of cycle of violence i think your main treatment of detainees is absolutely essential to break the vicious cycle of violence and to reintegrate those who have been involved in unlawful operations are brought back to society i think its evidence speaking about bringing them back to society its not a secret that there are now major tashas between the United States and europe including russia about what has to be done to those 5 areas and the United States wants them to be repatriated many western countries despite their normally very strident stance on human rights are not eager to do that the preferred option is simply to dump them in syria and i think thats partially because of the fear that their Legal Systems could train them to leave me in plea and that they could present a security challenge in the years to come dont you find that perhaps this is this is a bit ironic that this is what the syrian war has come to after years of lumber asking the Syrian Government for its choices western governments who now have more resources more advanced Legal Systems are not really eager to set an example and treat those combatants humanely and subject them to a fair trial well you have probably heard myself and i. C. R. C. Institutionally advocating for all the countries who have detainees or have families off detainees in the camps at the present moment in in in syria may. All the efforts to pay their people back this is because theyre not feeding your calls so thats welfare we have 74000 people in the whole 6 months ago we have 68000 at the present moment there are around 11000. 00 are foreign nationals most of whom are believed to be former isis fighters nobody wants to know what is rushing to take them all nobody is rushing to take them home because exactly of what you mentioned our argument is more humanitarian when i look at the situation in the camps for families when i look at the detention situation we do advocate that those countries will have the economy the possibility to do so and have probably despite all the security challenges still more leverage to do so help in voiding some of those camp or at least easing the pressure i think we have still 30000 syrians we have still 30000 iraqi in the nationals in the camps of the 4 of the families and i think it is much more difficult to repatriate those people in the context of the fragility of the syrian and iraqi context today and thats the reason why i have always advocated that European Countries and others make an effort to ease the tension and tore allow a better stability also in terms of humanitarian assistance in the he asked specifically about the whole because the station there may become even more precarious with the recent announcement of the american pullout and their looming turkish a fanciful on the areas that. Still controlled by some of the kurdish groups do you have any concerns about what may transpire in that part of Northern Syria in weeks and months to come well obviously we are concerned by how bad is this there by the new situation at the present moment we are the situation is much too fluid to even say whether yes or no we do have access in the in those areas which are now. Under control of the Turkish Armed forces but i feel. The next few would be 1st to give us a clear picture on what the humanitarian impact is and then also to materialize and to see what are do you have a news with which on which we could have access but this is certainly our determination to continue the work we have done in the past and we hope that all the parties involved with or for access is and as we know the situation is as complex as ever in the north east and north west of syria now i heard you say in one interview that what distinguishes the syrian war is the sheer scale of destruction which will make life difficult for people for years to come when the white house still it is hopefully sees what do you make them of this very open very deliberate sabotaging of the iraq instruction operated by western governments and the tying of International Record structure of funds just specific political outcomes do you think its fair well you know the debate on the reconstruction riches has been forth in the open and which is basically a big debate which is not that the core of i. C. R. C. Has preoccupation we are engaged in humanitarian efforts at the present moment and 1st things 1st i think looking at the dimensions of people displaced within. Syria and in the neighboring countries what needs to be done 1st is really to bring back basic services to syrian blood. Is to syrians as we interpret those basic services to people is very much still part of a basic humanitarian agenda its now believe taishan of basic services afterwards its a political decision on the way mario actually recognize that their ability to bring those Services Back to pass on the availability of funds and in one of his recent interviews James Jaffrey the u. S. State Department Special representative to syria openly bragged about quote having blocked all reconstruction assistance from anywhere including the un d. P. World bank any place anywhere inside assads part of syria is that not a continuation of war by other Means Development funds and reconstruction funds have been political from. Care international for Even International funds they always come. Un the p operates under political conditionalities you have to make the difference i think the concept of International Aid efforts is to distinguish between your money terry and then very happily taishan efforts which are part of unconditional funds which are available in syria to which. Countries in europe and the United States and elsewhere contribute it is kind of an artificial debate that is taking place internationally because i think there is a con census to be to have more rehab in the taishan and more humanitarian funds for syria the present moment when you look at the reality of syrians that its not big reconstruction that will happen tomorrow what they need is schools still function is hospitals to go back to function is water tap still have again clean water and this is. Very much. Of what we would call your money and be happy. There are International Funds available but i agree with you. It is most important there is an international are flexible enough to address media syrian so that they can go back to their homes. And restart a normal life. Its always a pleasure thank you very much. This conversation going in our social media pages and. Same place same time. Im all. In this community there are people who believe that its ok. Its really hard there are no jobs and you see the kids. And as a parent. I can come up with arguments theres a lot of conflict. Between the 2 most of it i would say. This one. Is good because the state of california makes 6000000000. 00 a year of prison complex. Join me every thursday on the elec so im unsure when ill be speaking to us of the world of politics or im sure ill see you there. I know you. Got it wrong. But. You dont know. The problem i think i would like nothing. More. He says is taking control of a key border town as its army push the state into syria that is prone kurdish rallies against chris military incursion held across europe also to come in the week. More than a week of violent protests in ecuador with the president refusing to cancel cutbacks on fuel subsidies and the russian president Vladimir Putin has given an interview to a panel of journalists from several arabic t. V. Channels including our sister station r. T. Arabic ahead of his upcoming state visit to saudi arabia