Inventor in canada us called steve mann. So he is also experimenting with merging his body with machinery for quite a while now but hes more honest scientific this side of it like doing it for the sake of science know you youre an artist not a scientist its for what it what you do right now is it just a commentary to whats happening or is it also advancing science in a way well look you know i i am only an artist on the other hand i have a general knowledge of engineering of medical technologies because of my hands on experience with them. I see these projects as as 50. 2 new possibilities. Are i think that we shouldnt consider them in any why scientific research. Which on the other hand usually my projects involve studies of the. Technology so for example when i. First state engineered it was sophisticated enough even though im only an artist to be invited by the jet Propulsion Lab in pasadena and the Johnson Space center in houston. To demonstrate the hand to the extravehicular activity group. And not just only. There is an interest in. New technologies and smooths around understanding of the body. Im just trying to figure out where the general public is at at the moment in terms of understanding all of this because what steve mann and i know when he ran into trouble couple of times for instance when he was trying to pass metal that detector it was being seen like crazy and the customs officer got so scared that they literally have to sort of you know. Some. Mechanical things out of his body when it comes to you are do you think its a little too far out for most of the people at the moment or not really. Oh i mean its very difficult to evaluate you know i think. New ideas new philosophies and contemporary practice often can only be value ites in the near future it will not be fully understood now. So for example it took 10 years to find. And to get funding to begin the construction of an iraq. And the surgeons never really understood. That it was. Not project during the 2nd surgery one surgeon was. Sighing to the other to say. Well you know if this is ox we must be the artists. And were going to actually get here on your hand project and top through it in detail but before i get that still want to talk a little bit about this facts of you know what is ation of human bodies what do you think this experimenting will have on lunch if it is i mean could that mechanical parts replacing biological body parts do you thing it could enable us to live forever i mean this is something that humanity has longed for throughout its existence it will i think the idea of. Immortality for example i mean. In the near future this is not going to be possible having said that if were going to be able to serie d. Print organs using living cells if we can grow. Organs and parts of our body using Stem Cell Technology if we can engineer prosthetic pots that can be components of the human body then we will have a situation with we need not biologically dari. Because well be eyeball to continuously reply 6 mel functioning parts of our body and actually if we can engineer an artificial womb that can bring to bear. An embryo to a fetus to a healthy child then youll read. Be given without. Because your body will already be external and it and youll your life will end without biological death so had need to fall on human existence without the without dish i its interesting i got my i heard read you saying that you just talk about reproductive organs right now where some fundamental tenets of our existence may be revalidated with Technology Like functioning of heart or reproductive organs that actually require you to be a man or a woman. I have 2 questions how exactly would that happen wake why how will technology remove the necessity of gender. The necessity of talking technically the necessity of gender and its fascinating when you think about it any all may come true what youre saying why would you want to do that why would you replace the heart that just beats fire a why would you not want to be a man or a woman on no i think i think with when i talk about the future all wifes talk about a contest future a future d of contingency in other words a future of choice rather than all of necessity when you know. Some institution or some government. Under tight some eugenic kind of programs because what it means to be human is different for different people and its a value judgement about enhancing your body are not so. Convinced about trains humanism for example because there is this saw idea that. New technologies will improve their bodies now i think this. Simplistic because an improvement of your body is a value judgement. An improvement to human not be an improvement for me because like this whole thing its just in code it and humans in our species. Does drive to change and replace things because apple speaking to martine. Is a very famous astrophysicist and he things that evolution is just going to turn us into machines eventually you know since you know were coming up with stuff that is more reliable and efficient than our biological south and sometimes im like are we really digging our own graves with this curiosity. We may have perhaps sped up but i think what it means to be human is perhaps not to remind human their goal because as humans were very Curious Creatures and we want to explore other cons of possibilities of the cons of of bodies machine bodies other kinds of biological bodies on the of always been interested in comparative anatomy so in evolution we see. Different color ends of bodies that perceive the world in different wise in other words one can argue that and then say its an animal a human have different. You know different cartons of wolves the experience you know we know that a dog only sees in black and white we know the bats navigate see notre sound we know the dislike senses infrared. These kinds of perceptual apparatus and different cons of biological and insect like bodies experience the world in very different wise and with many different generations the life span a. Of of some creatures is only a diy. Some creatures that live much longer than than humans for example. So i kind of speculate that a future body might be. A biological body that is increasingly machine eak and machines that are increasingly biological. And theyll be this combination but that beats us an upgrade of the human race and we wouldnt just peace humans the way we know us will but you know the idea of wanted is to be human is a historical and evolution recon struct you know so for example. When we will hominids and finally developed by people locomotion to the limbs become manipulators and we can construct opera facts instruments machines in other words by peta locomotion allowed us to completely chinese what it means to to develop as as a as a human body and you know even a couple of 100 years ago the idea that you would have internal components that would no longer a biological. Products would would have been inconceivable you know now its acceptable that. And then petey might have an artificial om that is a carbon fiber operated by servo motors connected to the uses no the system so we accept this now. We accept the fact that the body that you are born with my not made the body that you die with. You might in the future have a transplant you might have an artificial. Suddenly people will have out of joint. Thats already happening so we still think the they human. But. This would not have been the case several 100 years ago were going to take a short break right now when were back well continue talking to perform and. Stay with us. They all see themselves as dying swans in their dreams. But only one in the cells will ever make it to the told. Theyre ready to give their lives for the chance to die on stage if only once. Not even broken wings could deter them. For generations at the madrid ski theatre ballet sweat and tears oh no its here. Join me every thursday on the Alex Sullivan show and ill be speaking to guests of the world of politics or business im show business ill see if. Thousands of american men and women choose to serve in the countrys military and the decision that has shattered lives every song came to a complete. The day that i was raped ill be instructed here you know told to shut up what theyd kill me and i see how it destroyed my life any screamed at me and he made me come in and you graham my arm and he write me to his birthing area if you take into account that women dont report because of the extreme retaliation and its probably somewhere near about half a 1000000 women have now been sexually assaulted in the us military rape is a very very traumatizing thing tat happen but ive never seen trauma like ive seen from women who are veterans who have suffered military sexual trauma reporting rape is more likely to get the victim punished than the offender i had an almost 10 year career. Which shows very invested in and i gave a sex offender who was not even put to justice or put on the registry this is simply an issue in violence male sexual predators for the large part of whoever is there to prey upon whether thats men or women. And were back with stellar Performance Art is. Your project the very famous one iran there are 1st of all can you show us. The process of actually implanting that ear in your arm. And then connected it from what i understand its still in a process. It was sort of related and have has been fraught with medical complications like i dont know from where i read the infection. Its adult choosing by getting really sick. Because of outside interference your bodys trying to tell you something i mean usually but is resist something when they understand that they dont need well you know i mean to do in a. Challenging and its sometimes risky. And we cant really generalise about this there was a serious infection. In the 2nd surgery when we planted a small microphone inside the econ struct and i had wires coming out of. And that didnt help because they were. In for about 10 days testing the marker fun but effectively at the end of the 2nd surgery the surgeon even though we had a a mosque a surgical mosque on even though my arm was wrapped in bandages with a partial plus the cost the surgeon could speak to the it is voice was picked up and wirelessly transmitted so its plausible and the idea. Is still the intention is still to intimate tonight will the to electronically old minted. If youre in simply to move to moscow and im in london new york paris wherever i am wherever you are youll be able to log in and listen to what my ear is hearing wherever you are wherever i am correct me if im wrong but that is an exact replica right its a shape its purely as static why would you go through that trouble i mean you could have just asked the surgeon to implant a chip thats a good question you know as a not to stymie interested in the all idea of. Anatomical architecture is why do we have only 2 e is to ah is. Too late 2 arms of the limbs so for example a life form with a food and an extended on. A virtual. And i was always intrigued about a making a prosthetic pot of my body. Using my own skin using my own cells so for example the process for constructing this was to implant a bio degradable scaffold which is poorest and when this is inserted beneath the skin when the skin is suctioned over the scaffold over a period of about 6 months you have to shoo in growth and vest and occurring in other words d the cells in your in your body grow into the scaffold it grows its own blood supply so now this is highly integrated as part of its a living part of. The box whats interesting will be to intimidate the ear so this other project that you have rewired group makes basically out of a sort of outsourced your body senses to others right to understand the concept. That from afar as long as we leave people who want to communicate and they do it through literature through i dont know painting then later on film photography of it is this how all this forms of expression will evolve into a people tapping directly into each other senses do you think it will come to that. Its not something that will happen definitely but its plausible and its possible i mean the rewiring mix performance for 5 days 6 hours every day i could only see with the odds of someone in london i could only hear with the ears of someone in new york. But my body goes in. And anyone could access my ride through the exoskeleton that i was wearing and remotely moved my body so that it was this idea as you said of outsourcing my senses my visual an acoustical senses to people in other bodies and sharing my i gin see. People in other places were controlling the movements. So the idea of a distributed body of an extended mind this concept is really something thats already happening you know we all have Wireless Media we communicate remotely. I can see your face on my telephone that australia for it is there and when you physically experimented its completely. The difference is that. You yourself are experiencing it in a more intense why. So there is that that difference but what im signing is that these actions these performances are in fact already happening in some why or another. If you take that idea to the max like this whole intent interconnectedness right where people in theory connect to your feet and vice versa that really. You know grows into the whole species becoming one with each other isnt that what all these. Gurus and people who were telling us all this time that we actually won all and were going to do it well in a kind of general sense. But what were talking about here is. Physically machine equally electronically. Being connected to each other by choice. So for example you can switch on switch off you can be on law and you can be offline in fact now we share 2 columns of worlds we share online will sway way distributed into connected and we still experience flaws. With private biological individuals. And this is something that. Is happening all the time and will continue to happen but even in very different whys so for example another possibility in the future is that all technology will be invisible because it will be inside your body with my current skyll. Senses with robots. Al body becomes the host for the Technology Technology now is existing external to the body but in the future monica this is. Inside the way i see it what youre describing knology that is in style inside of your body and you being connected to the internet is a witness inside of you more severe back to internet anyone pretty much can at any point happen to me. I mean why would i want to ask myself so he decides from their ability well i mean hacking your body is all why its possible. Especially anyone with a chip in their body a simple chip is vulnerable to being hacked and as we have artificial hearts as we have. To have brine then thats something that we have to. But you know that kind of an argument doesnt negate. Experimenting with these things because you know if you want to just be a biological body then you will have no. Machines to assist you youll have no media devices to communicate with you will have no heating system still different if you know if i have media devices and internet is all around me i do that very often i choose to cut myself off completely because i know that theres no privacy now well you know if you talk on the phone if you go online everything youre doing is being watched and listened to but we still choose to you know to give up our privacy for the sake of facility facilitating our lives i feel like well ready our living in the internet and not having internet biology clete is exactly that choice then when i want to switch my ass off. I go off but if i have it in me but the problem is if you dont want to have it and someone forces you to have it thats a problem but people will choose to have chips implanted to have the cortical capacity expects painted to have an artificial have to keep a lot of. So if we do into laws and technologies if we have implanted chips or if we expand our cord in cool capacity or decide to have Something Like an artificial hearts now bodies to study a lot of. We still have to. Engineer them saif flee and be eyeballed to manage them in a why. People. Intervene external. Well that and also just to make sure that our bodies and brains and minds can cope with it because most of the nearest scientists i talk to right now are saying that with the amount of information we have right now accessible to the internet we our brains are just going crazy because its too much for it were not custom made for the kind of information so if. If were talking about you know having a chip in our hat constantly being upgraded and updated with information that does it mean that were all going to be slightly insane in couple of generations. And will again i dont type dystopian view about that there might be advantages theres always some disadvantages it depends on. Where the new technology is over rule of benefits and law i personally experiments i think suggests that how bodies can manage being. Distributed being fragmented. Having additional limbs to perform with and i think that want to do is speculate about contestable few choose possibilities that can be experienced possibilities that can be evaluated sometimes appropriate to most likely discarded deller thank you so much for this wonderful interview and good luck with everything thank you very much thank you. Yeah. Dont. Log on to. See when he does it cause you know the false soldiers you can see you. Know the bullets of some of. The lots and lots you know something. Youre going to do with the book you just wrote a song sit on me she saw that sound a soft spot will not keep you down at this time i dont. Need to smoke. Only more committed to defeat the computer coming in for you so you could pull the ripples from the way. To. The present. With no make its manufacture consent to step into public wealth. When the ruling classes protect themselves. With the financial merry go round be the one percent told. To ignore middle of the room sick. Leave a little. Bit there. The. Identity crisis facebook now claims its a publisher and not just a prop for a legal case which could have a major impact on whats posted on the site. Plus austrian m. P. s want to pull the plug on a huge trade deal between latin america and the e. U. Over fires in the amazon although european firms are working with companies linked to the destruction of the rain forest. A Major International military exercise in central russia enters its final stage with china and india among the participants