Actually agreed and said yes this money is due and owing and should be paid thats part of the allegations against us and the right out if it doesnt know what the left hand is doing some people may just say you think what you think about the Death Penalty which has just been reintroduced. What do you expect them was justice from a middle east or talk or see any way well 1st stop kuwait whos just stepped out has as chair of the Security Council for this last month and who has signed all the un treaties particularly the basic rights that everyone should expect in relation to a fair trial should respect them secondly we have many many nonnationals in kuwait and indeed in the gulf states generally who are coming there to do business acting and behaving lawfully they need to have to expect and have the confidence that the judicial system will treat them. Fairly and not arbitrarily as this is happened in this case there was a big conference here about our british investments and there was a general ease about what was happening to Foreign Investors in the gulf in relation to the criminalize ation of what is essentially commercial disputes and essentially fights between commercial companies for lucrative gulf contracts and we believe that this is that marsh if you like is Collateral Damage in the wider by every between local firms for lucrative gulf contracts but i want to get on to International Economic pressure in a 2nd its quite noisy here very busy law firm it is i want to ask 1st of all youve filed a petition of complaint to the u. N. Working group on erbitux detention would you expect from the working group well we found that about a month ago now kuwait has 6 weeks to respond so were eagerly awaiting their response to see how they justify this bizarre behavior from some of their courts. And then following that kuwait has time to respond and then they are working group will then consider what has happened and give their opinion as to whether in fact this is a case of arbitrary detention or not we confidently expect that an impartial body like that will see the difficulties in justifying this particular aspect into the woodwork that is it partly depends of course on the response from kuwait because they as i say they have 6 weeks they could ask for another month depends how big that long that response is so were not talking about imminently we will we will wait and see at the same time weve also engaged with another procedure the u. N. Which is called the special report on the independence of judges and prosecutors and that isnt just his role isnt just to look at the. Independence of judges is also to look at the. Standard of behavior and in this case for example there was an explicit r. Thing that happened just the other week because i mentioned that marcia has not been able to push her case and she has a very good. Support from including the former f. B. I. Head who has looked at the evidence against and weve produced a report when he produced that reports to the court the judge came out with the extraordinary question of him which was who played you in the channel 4 series homeland i was in the Kuwaiti Court that was in the Kuwaiti Court because it was 4 of louie louie freeh ok what was the point of the un arbitration working committee because as you know well theyve criticized british authorities this came i think even before the un special rapporteur on torture accused the British Government of involving torture julian a search for under wiki leaks if the british authorities dont appear to much about findings on arbitrary detention when it comes to the most famous publisher in the world what do you begin to think about your glimpse if you will im well of the great government thing of course you know the un working groups the un special rapporteur dont have any teeth i mean they dont have any troops to send in they dont have a police force to send in however they do have. Opinion false and underweight of International Condemnation behind that its also the fact that as you may or may not be aware that under the Un Human Rights Council there are 4 year leave reviews of countries compliance with human rights standards and kuwait is coming up in january and certainly we intend to make sure that this issue about the trial process and how there seems to be arbitrary justice a different sets of rules for. On a group of people from another the dangers for International Business power persons coming to kuwait to carry out business invest. In the country that should be something that we intend hope will be raised very strongly and kuwait would have to answer for that in the in the court of the United Nations and in the court of Public Opinion from you being human rights lawyer for you lara logan as a whole long i mean isnt this the problem with human rights when the elite rich Russian National gets into problems in the middle eastern country they get protection from lawyers like you diversion of claims kuwait and julie restricts renu expression discriminates against the we do community there are reports of torture before death sentences. Why is it only in their outlook we have not saying that marsh is the only person who may have suffered here. In kuwait overseas that would be ridiculous but you know 1st of all marsh isnt exactly a huge elite. Rich russian she is a businesswoman who has made her way in the world she has become very prominent in kuwait partly because so few. Women hold her sort of position but she made that position herself she came to kuwait as a Foreign National and because of her work and her skills. Put herself in that position secondly of course there are other Human Rights Violations that we can we can all see around the world but one of the question surely is human rights is for everyone and rich or poor to have your liberty arbitrarily taken away from you. Should not be done it out to process and a proper system of law you mentioned the former head of the f. B. I. Louis freeh people have remarked on the very high profile defenders of the liberty of bush. River neil bush the sort of george or walker bush. V the dont trump has been briefed by a round before me a lawyer and the Russian Foreign minister Sergei Lavrov why do you think this case is attracting such high profile support because i think as we know people are concerned about the ability of International Trade to operate in the in the right manner and this question about can Business People who are going about their lawful business complying with the laws of the state can they be sure that if there is some sort of dispute it wont be turned against them in a way that leads to what happened to marsha 472. 00 days in a kuwaiti prison confined in a room with 6 other women which was actually a cell phone to deprive in prison she was quite described as the russian woman in fact in court in some of the earlier hearings the judge described as the russian woman this does not show. An equality before the law which is finally were in the same building as the Cherie Blair Foundation what is it given controversial surname you have what is the validation and what does it do around the developing world. Foundation for it its 10 years old now and those 10 years weve reached 150000 women in lower middle Income Countries and providing them with trading mentoring networks and. Use of technology to grow and expand the small medium and growing businesses about women taking control of their future and we helping them to realize their dreams. Thank you thank you after the break advise a Prince CharlesJonathon Porritt on his name checking by mark reitman its when he put the World Shakespeare Company over to be all of them all coming up about to have going underground. During the Great Depression which im old enough to remember there was most of my family were simply working class there wasnt it was bed you know much worse objective listen today but there was an expectation that things were going to get better. There was a real sense of hopefulness there isnt today todays america was shaped by the turn principles of concentration of wealth and power. Reduced democracy attack solo down engineer elections manufacture consent and other principles according to no on chomsky one set of rules for the rich opposite. Thats what happens when you put her into the hands of a narrow sector of will switch will is dedicated to increasing power for chills just as youd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization. America. Welcome back to the u. N. In geneva is today presented with a report into british racism exacerbated by conservative and liberal democrat politicians after the 28 western economic crisis un special rapporteur and yet you may have even suggested that the u. K. Government should not be surprised by allegations of racism presumably she was referring to outgoing Prime Minister to raise a may infamous for hostile environments and deportation advertisement vans but will things get better here because may has self said that Boris Johnson uses the wrong words when it comes to discrimination its very clear that the language that Boris Johnson used to describe peoples appearance has caused offense its not language i would have used i think its wrong to use that language boris of course could be Prime Minister in june of weeks or it could be this man the defacto former boss of the u. K. Is universal Health Care System when doctors went out on strike here he is questioning the right of foreigners to get Free Health Care is it right that someone can come from overseas perhaps a taurus coming from america or japan and actually pay nothing towards the health care some might argue it is especially if it deterred a tourist with a contagious disease from seeking medical help while visiting britain but in both contenders to be Prime Minister by august have anything in common it is their interest in say fracking jeremy hunt was in slovenia lobbying for fracking in february and johnson has argued that households should have a commercial interest in fracking thats not something that would be supported by drying of green politics in britain for decades joining me now is the chancellor of kill university an environmental campaigner Jonathon Porritt thanks so much older for coming on so lets go straight there more graylands one of britains greatest actors name checking you directly as one of the reasons he has decided to sever ties with the royal Shakespeare Company is because of its sponsorship by b. P. To be fair this is. All marks decision really and he asked me what i felt about it knowing that i have over the years done some work with oil and Gas Companies including b. P. And shell and had to come to a judgment for myself about the degree to which they are serious now about thriving in a low carbon World Without further investments in oil and gas so we talked about that at length and i feel very strongly that when someone like mark feels a moral imperative that is wrong for a company like b. P. To be spending some of its what he would call ill gotten gains on supporting young people through the assisted tickets you have to we have to listen to him hes thought about this really carefully its a very deep moral decision for him but i mean he quoted you as saying that b. P. Has downplayed its role in causing the Climate Emergency now you just said you advise b. P. Moon where they downplay it back then or the time that i was working with b. P. Was when lord brown was chief exec whos been on this show i should say good. There was a whole length of time for 5 years where b. P. Was really serious about trying to think its way out of being a pure oil and gas Company Becoming what john brown described as an integrated Energy Company in fact he would quite often say were not an oil and gas company were going to be an integrated Energy Company drummer i was very driven in his determination to change b. P. Around it didnt happen and once they lost that opportunity then so this is sort of 2000 at the time that he was chief exec once that happened then they reverted to a much more traditional conventional roe which is we have to keep rolling out the investments in new and gas every year to replace the stuff we bring out of the ground every year and theyve never theyve never got back seriously into now. Politically. Is against what youre saying bob dudley the current american c. E. O. Says b. P. Continues to make bold changes continues to make bold changes across the group as part of a commitment to advancing a low carbon future you know this is getting a bit outrageous that these companies will still talk about the fact were going to be burning huge amounts of oil and gas through 220402050 etc etc and the next moment theyll turn around and say were being really serious now about our economy consistent with the climate goals of the bears agreement is what they say but you have to look at the pattern of investment the amount of money theyre spending on Renewable Energy in comparison to the amount of money theyre putting into brand new oil and gas projects as software 1000000000. 00 after 1000000000 on renewables 16000000000. 00 on oil and gas and thats the patent that goes on year after year after year and they have to get smart about this before their investors get smart about it because once the investors say were not going to put any more money into projects that are never going to be able to deliver the revenues for us as investors given the world has to decarbonise. During that time the investor is eventually going to say to bob dudley and his board youve got this wrong youre calling this wrong theres no way around this of course the investors can be politicians regulations actually mean that not diversifying into renewables is still profitable not diversity firing into radials is like signing your own death warrant we have to have massive new investments in Renewables Every Year i mean at the moment investments in renewable is run at about about 300000000000. 00 a year globally which isnt bad its quite a lot of money going into it as you can imagine but we need somewhere between 800000000000. 00 and a. Trillion dollars of new investment in Renewables Every Year so politicians are getting smarter about this to be fair a middling performance on this world leader on offshore wind power put a lot of resource and thinking into that and thats the one area where were still a world leader but every country in the world now is going to have to step up the speed and the depth of the investment it makes in renewables when you mention armageddon there just stepping back from this when you were talking with people at shell and people at b. P. Some people say this is the 1st generation of people in history that of. Trying to argue for something that their own children may be affected by against the interests of their own children and talking about ruling elites in india you make of what do you make of that presumably had conversations with people who said what you are saying is not well to pick a word sustainable financially. It was always the most fascinating moment whenever we were doing this in gauge when work with b. P. Or show we did i did a lot of advisory work as well. And after the end of the formal process as it were and we were having a drink or dinner or whatever it would be. Time after time they would say im really more worried about this than you can imagine because my kids are on my back already theyre telling me this is something that we have to sort out in this company now that was 1015 years ago you can imagine what its like now with Extinction Rebellion with the school strikes with gratitude with David Attenborough out there saying to everybody that this is now a challenge to the very nature of our civilization you can imagine what the kids of these chief exacts are like around the dinner table with their parents right now and i tell you something thats as influential a way of getting to them as practically anything else. Ok but if. Youre a. Struggling playwright struggling artist struggling portrayed just. The National Portrait gallery the Royal Opera House the British Museum they all take money from b. P. Should people be boycotting these institutions and surely there are people at all these organizations that understand what you do about the environment decided they have to get b. P. Money to keep going they dont have to theres been a understandable reason why they have come to rely on big sponsors like b. P. This isnt a general campaign against corporate sponsorship for the arts this is a very specific story about Companies Like b. P. And shell and it is important to make that case because theres no reason at all why the r. S. C. Shouldnt find another sponsor for this is to take it scheme its just that his mother pointed out very compellingly he just said look youre providing a benefit for these kids but at the same time youre denying. That the business that your ian is going to destroy their future well theyve obviously have their own reserve are making these decisions but aside from i mean what we have to understand always he consumer boy cotton or going to win this as Nobel Laureate economist or a stiglitz cools at 3rd world war for the environment is but any view is i want to shake shack part of the picture any view is watching then what can they watch out is could sue ms watch as for green washing by big corporate multinationals again i you know we we do a lot of work with businesses a lot of business is a doing a ton of stuff now this is not all green wash the kind of position how do they tell the difference was that is a good question but when youre in the business of oil and gas and you say the dont worry the futures safe in our hands you know yo dealing with a really deep green washer that so bob dudley as a green washer in chief most people of got a pretty canny instinct for the difference between stuff that is for real and hes making a difference not this big a difference is we need but a difference and the stuff that they know is just a marketing scamp so you support it Extinction Rebellion when they targeted 5 fossil fuel company had gore does in london be be saudi aramco reps all you support of the because you could see what elites arguably thoughts of this kind of thing mark field of oren form of Foreign Ministers suspended for i dont know what you thought of how he treated the Extinction RebellionClimate Change protester it have Mansion House when John Seville Pam and was giving as we age its i was is a amount at a dinner in mansion has accusing the Extinction Rebellion people have being elite theres a certain irony of that bound the way he behaved i think is widely accepted to have been completely wrong i can see why he was really cross because in their nobody likes a protest or reminding you very very compellingly that there are a different way of looking there are different ways looking at this world and now we have to decouple is wrapped in no one likes that when youre sunk deep in the middle of a consensus about the usefulness of fossil fuels but his behavior was unacceptable while the un special rapporteur Philip Alston got short shrift from the government when he was talking about poverty and austerity policies by this government hes now saying that the Environmental Crisis or catastrophe. Will claim under 20000000. 00 of the worlds poorest. They will be driven into poverty by 2030 elites in this society are taking that seriously. And you take it seriously i take all that very seriously indeed and this all goes back to the official scientific reports from the governments advisory body from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and those reports become more and more outspoken in telling us what will happen if we allow the gases to build up an atmosphere and the temperature gets warmer and warmer they are very clear that were heading into some very difficult and dark times so when you hear a projection like that which is based on the inevitability of increased droughts increased disruption more people refugee as refugees increasing sea levels you cant help but acknowledge that the poorest of the poor around the world are going to be in the frame 1st they will be hit 1st and hard as you look at puerto rico with the hurrican there devastating it will take them 5 to 10 years to recover from that so this isnt. This isnt some crazy future although President Trump said puerto rico would recover im going to ask about trump because i live aboard this year the military have a big part of it for a change the u. S. Military apparently is the biggest polluter it has polluted more than 100 combined states actual countries do you think anything will can seriously be done about the u. S. Military quite of. The National Portrait gallery and there is an interesting story to be told here the Carbon Footprint of the u. S. Military so you look at everything all the equipment and sounds of it is absolutely huge its enormous and theres no turning away from that probably the only high level voice in Donald Trumps ear at the moment saying youve got to take this Climate Change story seriously because this is as big a threat to National Security in the u. S. As anything else going on in china or russia anywhere else and thats because it will be so disruptive theyll be. Millions of people on the move will lose access to markets itll just be a mess and in a mess extremists terrorists flourish its much harder to manage things like migration in a proper way so the pentagon has been one of the most thoughtful sources of advice to the us president past and present. Of any us agency going back now 15 years. Both of you enjoyed that episode of going underground will continue showing your favorite episodes from this season of joy back for a brand new season on wednesday the 11th of september until then keep it up via social media and dont forget our you tube channel for you. What politicians do something to. Put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. So when you want to be president. Or somehow want to. Have to go right to be cross with the bible before 3 of them or cant be good. Im interested always in the waters of our. First city. Ever since the arrival of Boris Johnson to 10 downing street theres a growing sense of inevitability that brags it will be executed on october 31st with or without a deal i mean we get to this point what lessons have been learned and nothing. Much. Lists lists lists. Looked. And very well might continue watching on since last. She stressed to me not long but to say that the british wasnt in the book yet the will to. Stop the show was to let you see the feast it is easy to see which is quite a shock. To which you dont know what you mean the Member States youre going to let me out for sure i. Want to talk to you so if youre my its your bonus for should be. Its a mistake its a word support im going to let them direct your spirit for this interview for you both these to teach the students actually the person has to be vocal or should stop them speaking. I. Was. I. Think i was in the pub with. Millions of serbian made munitions reportedly ended up in the hands of terrorists in yemen and syria often they were appalled by the us and its allies according to documents obtained by a bell darian journalist i think may be right and im very glad you. Dont know that is the. North they are thank you. If i missed the scenes. Planned a huge blow in parliament as m. P. s backed legislation of blocking any no deal departure from the european union. And a un report highlights the potential role of the us britain and france in Human Rights Violations