Organizing early marches and also to the organization hope live streamed every evades forcing their presence onto the political agenda imo joined by from the granite city of beaten by police at dusk to see one of the organizers of the. Last week and these marches have been taking place right round scotland the been gathering streams gathering numbers gathering the mental but do marches like that really make a difference of even the biggest market share of 100000 people there are some to say well thats 5000000. 00 plus people in scotland not talking up at the march do these marches make a difference they absolutely do and they show the cause to be a normal selfgoverning country in a very positive light we meet we Exchange Information and ideas the behavior is impeccable and the amount of people that you see all this is my 1st march. Or id love to go all but maybe marching is not my thing but these people they partake in street stalls deliver leaflets etc so theres a wide range of ways that these groups throughout scotland are growing mushroom ing and connecting. Some of protests that will seal across the world the been lots of arrests and powerless in london and moscow in hong kong the scottish marches seem to pass without them or a rest stop or anything why is that to these i think because our vision for scotland is for a better place another scotland is possible we want to see Better Outcomes for all the people that live here it doesnt matter if youve been in scotland 5 minutes or 50 years youre scottish so with that positive light behind it and to be fair as well Police Scotland have just been so supportive an excellent every single march to go on theyve just been sterling so we march with hope in our hearts and a smile on our faces we are pretty convinced were going to get there the lace pull as youll know is 53 percent and i believe rising so we know were getting there as well but these marches attract cunto demonstrations of people who are for busy the union theres only tension between the 2 groups as the as the march proceeds. Not really at all the marchers know that that small band are not representative no of the minority who want to stay in the u. K. We just smile and whistle and carry on by and what would be your understanding memory from i. R. B. And smarts last out of the just arriving in the castle gate and looking back down union street and see in that sea of blue stretch all the way back so these would be the wave of blue saltires the National Flag the scotland tories are absolutely and actually the cell tower is the oldest National Flag in the world. I mean the cell tower is now come to signify to us not to scotland it signifies hope signifies a better country for us to live in it signifies an end to Nuclear Weapons and a fairer greener country which is our aspiration and i think the aspirations of the whole movement were to this or thought a little bit of history thank you very much for joining us from the the granite city of our boom its a pleasure alex thank you well thats the most recent and upon the smarts and scotlands knowledge and city of our beam but to talk about the early days of these marches i caught up with that little bit of money sing and went about donald whos speaking in a personal capacity. Well this lovely sunday did add a bit of delight to be joined by money sitting by when the big carrot when you started this campaign of demonstrations and i mean if you have. 100 people showed up and it was you know it was quite disheartening that people started marking you know as a mouth thing as a really big any impact how much hes going to be asked to tell you nobody cared you know theres a after 2014 defeat you had over 100000 people on the cubas good old you dont you have all this is where you had your big get all the user you had all the way from here to where we are for docent is all we did to him you know with the cube of the station on the d. S. Room remember independents my you know sort of plastic be so when we dont we shouldnt question of the memories of the shes a mile a man marries was a 100 people you could shave but to someone and then you could answer them by. This so small compared to today. Over 100. 00 maiden. Find you could start at the back you about saying hey jimi back out to see the fine have you go i just drank. Something awful is. Trying to spoil something you know i know mark fossil impossible. To make people think you know that the Mainstream Media peters as a minority but issues that we know im a normal a big force on issues of one people fighting for one cause when be when you go into your last year of you suddenly realize my goodness this is going to be 100000. Who is your thoughts theyre well our life student the march to the front on the numbers come and then that oh my you could feel the fly i didnt have the parts of hate many see of course a lot of friends and just this really heartwarming scene of in the coming together that is one mob scene. On the one cause youre not just going for the big numbers are you willing to state that youre thinking of is all going to come. To the people as the people to the marches and what theyre framed and there are a lot of people who are quite tightness could become a payoff could become comfort so. Late to this thread for fellows i want in the country because they say i. Would look back in the baltics and be admonished they have one of the biggest mount kisco in something in its history and that was a sale. So give us the man some gathering behind democracies. And it is self anough i believe of the obviously your objective is not just to keep the view of the big bag of them out which is that you are trying to have a weight of political bio evidence can you point to me saying that you know having the discussion effect on the population be getting people talking about independents again touched on earlier on as we went to dumfries i was 10000 people and thats. 10000 employees is a big number and one of the biggest things weve seen was businesses coming in and smiling because we dont welcoming marginal as more hatred compared to other marches that take place in scotland stuck in the stone age but its welcoming and people want to be part of the something new a new scotland a new a new scotland everyone wont know but the miracle of television i know you have a couple of quick so to un. Thanking your. Thank you very much having spoken to some of the independents campiness and i talking to the organization which has live streamed every single one of these marches kevin get me from independence live welcome to the likes of and show how you alex. You must have seen the she is growing in number i mean you know when you started covering the 2 people and i dug up what was yeah i remember the. But i dont think we actually life. Is really reaming there was a bit to 300 people in glasgow out of ember shelagh alone nice cheer on the green pouring to. Glasgow summer. So was that your leap because this family at least the boxes were being ignored or mocked by the Mainstream Media was and the parents live other sponsor that to get the message across its a centrist and you know why students agree we buy price you can stream media and they can do the mobile phone now and then if hes interested get in contact with us well show you how you do if youre good you know so given the success of a live broadcast by a mobile phone or by other means or across the country are you going to move into other Media Outlets now where weve got a new plot for for information a discussion to pens cetera and i was started until i thought radio so thats been going since the us yet it still saw florence. Still try to get more people to do a coin 10 photos but you know its quakes a and b. Also we can write were a radio through life streams and stuff so its quite an interesting mesh of technologies and its all good love and kevin thank you for appearing on this mainstream. Show problem no problem just are all good. Thank you joining us after the break when alex interviews 2 of the most celebrated political activist everything from both sides of the atlantic. Going back to medieval days you had the church which is like the monetarists present day 21st century where they would discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin they were. Power and they enclosed this. Model and now weve got neo feudalism or you guys central bankers discussing how many derivatives can be stuffed into a worthless action fund and weve got folks in San Francisco in newark new jersey die from medieval diseases. Show seemed wrong. But old rules just dont hold. Any old belief yet to shape our disdain become educated and engage with equals betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. Because of what we said. You know i dont i get to see a day. When i mean. All of us yeah you know i guess you did it you know just to see you know you know i call. Someone. You see him a little you. Can think always stay. Down to your list. So to you. So normally in case we. Welcome back to discuss the effectiveness of political protest alex turns 1st to veteran campaigner for human rights Peter Tatchell the muffed of the one person protest in red squid in moscow for the pulpit a concert because the job Peter Tatchell 1st came to public prominence as the unsuccessful labor Party Candidate and the barman see byelection one of the most bruising contests of the 20th century the last 40 years he has continued to the headlines as one of the most courageous campaign is the human rights in general. Rights in particular and the city as weve looked at the politics of protest for the last century in recent years some of the Great Campaign some rock against racism in the 1970 s. All the worlds a moment of you somebody whos been involved in many of these campaigns but also has specialized as a courageous Single Person human rights campaign. The way to be joined by Peter Tatchell peter welcome back to the alex salmond sure glad to join you again there are you as a human rights activists have been the were the last 40 years or so youve been involved many of the protests but youve also had a bit of a specialty in the Single Person campaigns are you in a group of people making a point is that because you believe that a subject acquire the sort of attention that was some of the highlights of all of these sort of campaigns all of the single or small person protests were very secretive had to be kept very secretive because they involve i wanted to surprise such as ambushing president Robert Mugabe of zimbabwe in london in 1909 such as going to the pulpit of the archbishop of canterbury dr george carey the year before in 1980 mostly these 2 in terms of the this is what Robert Mugabe will still pursue and i go after the u. K. Foreign office and nobody else still in that the pomp of his power. Would tell in london a bit to your personal cost of other book about the what exactly happened there well together with 3 other members of the of the beauty Group Outrage we sought to make a citizens arrest the president mcgarvie on charges of torture this was an l. G. Beauty plot issue it was about torture and so when he drove out of his hotel james called hotel near victoria we ran in front of his limousine forcing it to holt i opened the rear car door amazingly it was unlocked and pretty much door rest under charges of torture and it was the law president Robert Mugabe i hereby arrest you as a citizen under International Law because of your abuse of human rights as above exactly and you shouldve seen the look on his face or did he say i mean he is very dark skinned but a visible action pallor came across his face hes jaw dropped his eyes popped here at. Hands in front of him like a frightened 10 year old kid i think hes going to be killed which i thought in my mind now you know what your victims feel like and we are going to kill you were going to take you to a court of law well have a chance to defend yourself so harm then the his henchmen promise upon your village a good way of the demise to get the hard cuffs on the president while we of course some of the police which is the requirement under the power of citizens arrest the police were not interested in the legal dos your we had for his arrest instead we were arrested and present mcgarvie was given a Police Escort to go Christmas Shopping in harrods the one of the other of the marshes as you mentioned you occupied the pulpit of the bishop accountability just as he was about to deliver these stuff homily. How did that go well we had tried to have a dialogue with the archbishop george cary for 8 years he refused to meet us or anybody from the old jeep if you passed community so thats why in desperation of the last resort we went into his cathedral and all we did was walk up into the pulpit and we held up placards highlighting the antigay laws that he was supporting like the right of he said employers shouldnt the dancers have the right to sack someone from that because they were gay they should be no legal recognition of same sex relationships that same sex couples are unfit to foster or adopt children etc and then i simply deliver the alternative sermon which was on the lines of discrimination is not a christian value would describe it for burma right little g. B. T. Commuters said peter wasnt. I think some did yes but the upshot was that i was arrested. And eventually charged under the ecclesiastical courts jurisdiction act of 860. 00 formally part of the brawling act of 5051. 00 and under that law its illegal to interrupt a minister of religion in a place of worship the archbishop was. So embarrassed when it got out that we only did this after he refused to meet us for 8 years that he did eventually meet with that has been a Christian Movement he did dramatically reduce his lobbying of members of parliament to oppose go equality and he did prompt other bishops in the church to speak out in favor of l g b t rights so i had a very positive impact so 20 years on. The rate certainly in terms of mileage recognized in the u. K. With the exception of Northern Ireland again looking back people would say well look at that protester going for it because what seemed a protest one of the a prosecution that at the time was the excepted the law of most of this law and whats right when i look back you know when i began in 1967 at the age of 15 there were so many things that seemed insurmountable odds like apartheid with in full swing and people thought it would never change but it did thanks to the contribution of millions of people in south africa and worldwide. About margaret thatchers poll tax you know she said it was not negotiable there wasnt going to be no rowing back on the poll tax but eventually because of the mass protests she did recant and the poll tax is now history so for me protest is the life of a democracy all the rights of freedom we have are the result of protest thats how it began protest and then eventually parliamentary change of course campaigning career over these decades youve been largely associated with equality of campaigns but thats not been your only campaigns and did you have any campaigns as a boy i think one of them was for Aboriginal Land rights thats right and against the Death Penalty against australian involvement in the vietnam war against apartheid yeah im a multiverse campaigner. And for me i believe in the principle of universal human rights for everyone regardless of who they are but later this attack will put up to a personal cop of. Moscow i think that was a major news for the 2nd loan the globe saw the modern Technology Must of made the protests easier facilitated put it much easier to organize much easier to mobilize lives under the people because social media provides such a ready instant access it without receivers got to langley of all of them wreak along with you continue your protests thank you very much thank you. To pick this summer of political protest into context alex 10 to Medea Benjamin the american political activist cofounder of quit pink and the fair kid at the secret complex. But there benjamin find the course of code pink welcome to the alex salmond show nice to be on with you out medea this Summer Season of the Extinction Rebellion in london weve seen the protests and more school about elections as you please wrong im in france the spectacular protests in hong kong in recent weeks are we living through an age of protest are we back in 1968 or is it just the social media everything is happening across the world i think the protests around the climate are new and are global and are a huge and theyre only going to grow as this is a planetary issue that affects us all but then in some other areas i think were seeing less for example we saw in the middle east all of the uprisings around the arab spring and that spread from one country to another but now that it looks like the results of those were not so positive i think thats put it damper on some other protests in the middle east for example so i think were constantly seeing ups and downs in protests but around the climate this is enormous and will only grow Medea Benjamin youre one of americas most celebrated activists across a range of causes in human rights how has your campaigning been affected by the social media age do you do things differently know as a result of social media actually the issues that i am most involved in which is trying to stir up wars have been harder to organize not critically because of the social media age but just because the wars have become so buzzy theyve been. And on for the last 20 years its harder to get people out on the streets so thats an example about how the issues there still live stream really important but social media isnt a nudge to galvanize people if its not something that is really getting them home and really affecting them immediately so i think social media can be a key to mobilizing like we see in hong kong but they also think that before social media we had enormous protests we had mass protests around civil rights issues in the United States when there was no facebook no twitter no instagram looking at that age of campaigning the most famous perhaps campaign of the recent generation do you think about it can society as made progress across the range of issues on in the champion age is a sign a sign up for a vashon in the United States well certainly weve made progress over the years and we are making progress then forcing our government to deal with issues like getting us out of the war as weve been in for 20 years or issues around the. Police brutality racism issues but they have in the age of trump there are so many issues we have the crisis that immigration and our borders we have the issues of increasing white supremacist the we have the issues. Our protest but then we have the other side protesting as well the people who want to take away womens rights to abortion the people that want to show their ability to use hate speech openly and are in our streets so there are protests and. Both sides but i do think that we are constantly making progress its just that new issues keep us during the trial we feel like we have whiplash because were always going from one crisis to another more recently visited my home country of scotland to campaign against the Trident Nuclear system how did you find protesting in scotland well i think its a time where there is not as strong as protest against Nuclear Issues but there certainly was a lot of excitement to ballot independence in scotland and now independence with mean the end to having Nuclear Submarines based in scotland so i found a lot of excitement around that and what message would you have of the more comfortable establishment in the your country and in other words about the intention of Medea Benjamin to continue your campaigning i think that the issues that were facing whether its war or climate destruction and continued raises the fight for democracy around the world theyre not going to go away those are issues that we myself included care deeply about these are lifelong struggles and people should get involved then get active because the more of us that get active the sooner that were behind is the result on these issues and the better our world will be for it but the event of an thank you so much keep on campaigning thank you nice to be on your show. In our series on political protests we filmed fire and white in looking at the history of activism stretching from working class glasgow 100 years ago to middle class london of the present. In the modern world the impact of protests has been amplified by an extraordinary amount in the age of social media this allies demonstrations to not just be substantially better attended but also to have much wider coverage when i took a line on this topic media who often look askance at demonstrations especially those in their own countries. However the successful demonstration across more than just imaginative and impactful social Media Coverage it took was a cause that people prepared to believe in often at substantial price no cost that much at least has not changed in the last century. Join us next week when we turn from the International Politics of protest to the parliament to politics or big no deal brix it in the u. K. With pother back from recess in 2 weeks time well the m. P. s change from 91. 00 to be just to financing on the thing. Will be joined by 2 key commentators who predict the fireworks to come till then from alex 9 all this to get by and we hope to see you. With your make this manufacture consent to stick to the public well. When the ruling classes protect themselves. With the prime of their regular lives and be the one percent. You know middle of the room sick. In this community and there are people who believe that its ok to substract food on my table just really hard there are no jobs and you see that ive got kids that ask and as a parent. I can come up with lots of targets theres a lot of conflict in the game between the cost of the conflict i would say the balls around morning steve. Close one. Is good because the state of california alone makes 6000000000. 00 a year of prison complexes. You dont care. As are plentiful survival. Yanks this is what happens to pensions in britain. As a report. Canas calendar is drawing alfonzo among his die and their situation page hes dard served. His 1st words were how low a c. Or a challenging post youve got 2 years to live. I have no doubt that what happened was scriven. Lets concentrate market is a 1000000000. 00 industry these companies have a huge financial motivation to solve these problems there are numerous stocks showing that doctors were keen to chest x. Ray concentrate straight infectivity on their patients wont give them doctors the wrong stoplight. Current system why they would give me consecutive doses day to day and people still die and im always question or so i write being on our to live when so many have. Little Trump Councils a state visit to denmark off and all of them mock spots Prime Minister nasty she rejected his office of why greenland kozel was absurd. Its revealed the u. K. Government agreed to a whopping 6000000000. 00 pounds in arms sales to saudi arabia during the gulf states for year a Bombing Campaign in yemen which has led to the worst humanitarian crisis on the planet. Not as easy as it looks our correspondent takes to the skies with russias believe there are a lot of steam before them access shows. Had not yet been a bad thing but i think it made quite. A bit down