Good moving around and all the garbage being moved back miracleman to that. No soviet union it had huge environmental problems in spite of the fact that it was completely disintegrated from the only system as something to be used you know what im trying to explain that its its really quite often we are putting globalization hat on everything globalization has to play but to take logical factors are much more fundamental and you cannot save jobs when radical change is going on but you can create jobs and thats the problem they have not been able to create a and theyre not argue with that but im asking you why is it such a bad idea to think about localizing both production and consumption because that would take care of many things including environmental things that everybody so worried about trying to explain that they cant use have rules when horses were compensated by. Tractors it led to 2 totally different kind of Production System the same with globalization we have seen now this this Mass Movement of Production Capacity into asia Asian Countries but we have seen 1st indications that may be but the intention maybe early and they are the only people are going to. Conclude thinking about technological change we have seen now 1st impact of 3 printing for example i did us decided to move production from bangladesh to germany why because of political reasons though because of the fact that makes it possible and im quite confident we are going to see a lot of changes which will lead to what you are saying more local approach but that is thanks to took Technological Development you cannot fight against technological changes otherwise you will then you know i dont think anyone at this point is trying to discourage technology from developing the question is whether some of the Country Companies that still rely on the Old Industrial model and shift their factories overseas. Are continuing to exploit that same model because in vietnam or in china theyre employing people not robots right they are in china they are employing more and more robots so the production is moving human labor force is not that relevant anymore in chinese Production Model but it is very relevant in vietnamese so so this is what happens in the world where i have seen this happen in europe of certain production moved from from sweden to finland then from finland to spain and portugal and then from spain and portugal to china but you cant imagine that the level of standard of living in finland can be as high as it is today if we had been keeping as saying there were. Just comparing the european Single Market to globalization and theyre a little bit there are. The biggest differences the Single Market has had. Believe regulated there are some compensatory role models and companies that are mechanisms globalization is not do you think globalization as it stands today needs to be if not regulated than at least coordinated i think we need to come into those government rules thats the most important thing so that you cannot compete with lets say with damaging the environment or or not respecting new human rights and social rights of people that is something we i think that Global Community has to be able to solve these problems and thats thats creating opportunities for fairer. One that also discourage companies from sunday jobs overseas because if you are concerned about environment if youre concerned about. Rules that it makes sense to you to keep your Production Base closer to the areas where they where they could to consume but but i was at nokia for example if you look at the prices of mobile phones if you wanted to. Come of this size mobile phones price that was the United States or Something Like 2 to 3000 euros and then 10 years later it was 100 euros that was based on the idea that the action was organized in completely different way i heard you say. One of the most important things in governance is having a concept a broader an occasion of what youre trying to achieve. Trumps seems to how 1 may be wrong here maybe. We disagree with them but do you think that kind of world view has the right to exist were looking at these consequences of this. Technological revolution there are other similar than those late 19th century which were the Industrial Revolution consequences lack of rules a lot of gaps between different income groups and so a lot of lot of challenges and. I think we have 2 options one is to go to mosul she. Tried to. Do the good old times and that is going on in the u. K. Breaks it move those who are one to have a break that they say the u. K. Have to come back to the times when we were heirs to the side or happened in the ear because i hear exactly one european leader after another speaking about the brainiest there im im trying to say that this is really quite venom and i can see that in russia i can see that in turkey i can see that in the internet States America great again this is not stylesheet idea people who are afraid of a future who have lost future perspective they are easy to be taken into them and then there is another option and that is lets try to keep these values we have principles we have without understanding that already were very good until now but theyre not working anymore and thats why i think that we have to move or for whose what kind of system we would like to have into future and that is the discussion we are missing almost everywhere in the world and to be honest trump is not doing that his message is completely completely nostalgic he will have to contend with some of those issues when he moves to discuss industrial tariffs with the European Union which is expected to happen pretty soon are you at all nervous about im nervous because theyre hitting both americans and the states i think there are we looking at kokoda station there are 2 aspects we lose or win out and im coming from a country which believes strongly in we but we can see that unfortunately the major tendency is now sort out if somebody is getting something its we have to pay for that and this is wrong. The way it has been carried out over the last couple of decades it also benefited so. Very small group of people very substantially left. Very very large groups within. Numerous countries disadvantaged but their option is not to stop this Technological Development which is behind that if you look at the most richest people in the world they have something to do with. The chill technologies and they have been able to benefit like rockefeller or carnegie late 1900 centuries exactly in the same way now the question is that instead of saying that why did we not stop that the right call is how to create new rules for the game so that everyone is able to benefit from that but it isnt to be conflating technology and globalization and i think many people think there is you know there are so related i mean they are any they are not but that you can be all in favor of technology but if you want to have a more fair process distribution in a given country and youre ready to take certain risks for that you want to again that may be some there may be. More than factory that employs last people than before but it operate in your country pays local taxes etc what we have today and you mentioned big tech giants they say their work everywhere around the world its not clear where exactly they pay their taxes what are the best countries in the world if you look at. Peoples mindset feelings if you ask me and russia of course i suppose until you know if you if youre going to look after himself countries to be honest you will find very often nordic countries there what are nordic countries doing but they have a very fair social model most open societies as well they are countries which have invested heavily in close so they have been kroeber ised but they have globalized with rules which are be they may be able to make it possible that they were one has benefit from do you think the world can live by the rules that the nordic countries. I dont know because hes sort of its a question of historical legacies we dont have this imperial history and thats why i will not say openminded records these we dont we dont look that much history Prime Minister we have to take a very short break now he said well be back in just a few moments and. You know world a big part of the movie lot and conspiracy its time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that Mainstream Media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door. And shouting past each other its time for Critical Thinking its time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. Backs geysers financial survival. Housing bubble. Oh you mean theres a downside to artificially low Mortgage Rates dont get carried away thats cause report. What politicians do listen to them. They put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected. So when you want to be president. Or somehow want to be. Too great to be press this is like the 43 in the morning cant be good. Im interested always in the waters in the. City. Just that. Theres enough. But im also the most companies you know. This company. He goes from didnt you know its risky to c. B. C. You struggle. With someone. Who seems. Kind of them. To. Come to your list to. Welcome back to worlds apart with former Prime Minister. Mr. You mentioned bracks and before i heard you describe it as as an example of populism people voting out of. Emotional feeling rather than rationality. You know what about those leading that sproles despair utilizing peoples rush know its a problems and by that you mean heres little to. You know i often hear back people describe laxity years as populist but wasnt David Cameron the biggest pop populist of all i think you made a mistake you putting into the room an issue which is very difficult to be voted because i had a referendum in feel good we joined the European Union but we had very clear to all to use to join with the agreement we had negotiated or to stay there with their yes or no but in the u. K. Case you knew only one option another one was to hope im glad you mentioned other example because i think youre probably the best person to understand what kind of position cameron was in and i know that back down you had faced opposition from your own party and you need to do to do a lot of persuasion in finland when you were taking your toe its a referendum i mean yes i dont think the mr cameron did any of that in fact he later tried to blame my own country for sort of manufacturing that. Agenda do you really think he demonstrated good leadership wasnt just a mistake or was it perhaps a characteristic of what kind of leadership he was offering. I can only say that afterwards when you get afterwards it was a fundamental mistake was it a vote about the state of the e. U. Governance as many people claim that the time or was it ultimately a vote on the state of the british governance because we and we have seen over the last 2 years that its not very inspiring the whole is. Always like that so that if you look at. Breath or induce or Public Opinion a lot of people are even when you were out on your membership. Joining the or leaving the or even when most people may be able to for for that there are many people who are voting against the government like in finland when we go to dont or new membership one argument was to to vote against the government in the u. K. The most fundamental one was the fact that there were a lot of problems and people couldnt fully understand what these because of the membership what these speakers of or some other reasons the reason im asking about it is because i think its a fair question and its a fair case to discuss the quality of the socalled liberal leadership that is so it is they full of the populace because asking before about transfinite what kind of ideas he proposes many people dismiss it out of hand and yet many would claim that it is in part the liberal leadership that brought us all to a place when we have to talk about morally decent forms of wealth. You can blame that democratic systems have been. Plaguing our democracy until a liberal no no but i want to say that that we have time to time in democratic systems we have crises the fact is that you need to face some kind of transition period and we have 64 now ive seen several of them so that times the time we have a crisis and after the crisis certain things will be changed and i think this is a very fundamental crisis because of the fact that so many things are changing so i will tell you sleep this is exceptional in that respect when you were taking offense into the European Union being a democracy was enough now you have to be either a liberal democracy or illiberal democracy which is not i assume a good place is there any middle ground can a democracy be conservative and both its economic and social approach it should be much more efficient i think a democratic system has to be changed we have a lot of legacies of early they say Industrial Age so that if you look at the structure of the government its almost the same everywhere. And i dont believe that for example lets take an example. Of population who is going to take responsibility of that is it means to for violence is it minister for social and health is it minister for interior or whose responsibility is that i think we have to understand that the role of the government has to be changed as well and democratic systems have to be reformed absolutely i heard you say that in the future the meaning of power including political power will be decided by those nations who are most. Conducive to have the best potential for a sign of him back and Technological Development do you think these distinctions between liberal a liberal democracy versus authoritarian system will matter they will matter because of the fact that in no when looking at Digital Technologies they are more or less applied in a different type of entertainment and they are rather easy to be done because because you need only rather limited ecosystem for that but in the future when we are moving to health care transportation. Education Financial Services it means that the ecosystem is going to be very complicated and you need and that is very relevant you need consumers citizens who are really educated well trained to have capacity to live in that kind of society and i think that is a challenge for every Single Society roughly the same way like earlier in the Industrial Society educational systems in the world have been designed for Industrial Society to be growth and now we have we need changes in order to get citizens who have capacity to do that but i think its clear that citizens in these socalled authoritarian societies also have such capacity in fact levels of education in both russia and china are pretty high and whats interesting is that the. Virt to integrated system sound systems do seem to have at least initially set an advantage over democracies in how they develop their technologies i mean china is the best example when it comes to big data when it comes to centralized data pools they are leading the world partially because of how they can apply their decisions do you think europe and other democracies will have to change their own system in order to compete with china or they will have to try to change china system in order to be able to play in the same i think used important. Because if you look at Technological Development there are 2 dimensions vertical dimension how to get lets say high tech lots used to be developed and that is a system requiring capacity a lot of funding a lot of decisions coordination and i believe that all the rich areas systems are having some benefits to do that but then there is this horizontal aspect or isnt elise asia of the watches and i believe that in the future this role of our research relation is going to grow and to be honest i believe that democratic systems are can be better are but can be better in that is specially that is an option for europe because europe is. Traditionally have been quite good in regulatory. Environment if you look at for example i know where about mobile phones why their mobile business was growing so fast in europe and the internet united because of Regulatory Environment so thats why i think we are going to see competition between china chinese moro russia is closer maybe to chinese model today than the european model but but it has also european aspects and then the u. S. There are 3 ways and not all can do it. Well you mentioned this whore i dont know if i can even pronounce that having this horizontal integration into society and i think its clear that its already happening in china it is happening in my view in russia. Do you see so the author is tearing their vertically integrated systems already becoming more transparent in my view because of technology and there is a clear understanding of that both within the Chinese Government and within the russian government. In order to compete the european system i think will have to become a little bit more flexible and agile and vertical integrated if you will do you see any movement in that direction come to helsinki late november its not the best time i mean we have a very dark rather cold here. If you will find 21000 young intrapreneur. Start up. All over the world coming to helsinki that time its an indication that there is a there is a change going on and it was impossible to imagine that kind of things 10 years ago but as you well know there is interpreters especially those who have from europe would be very critical of how long it takes the European Union to pass certain legislation and make them compete on the same level Playing Field with peers in china or even in the United States sometimes on the short yes but on the long. Game is different think about. Who and especially facebook saying 2 years ago government is our biggest enemy can you imagine that facebook. Like that anymore. Because they have a book that they have recognized that the system without rules is probably not in their interest and hooves. And i have a Less Charitable interpretation for facebook motives. That they have. That acceptance and trust in their system we disappear if they dont have common rules when finland joined the European Union we had to dream though many europeans had a dream that europe should be like america the american political system was like a like a model for your kind of value today and today you know when you say that because you have to recognize that maybe on the longer term this european system has some some positive things yes as well but this complicated case because of todays complicated problems. We have had easy of times and i hope. In the future we have a minute left and i still want to ask with a question about something that you mentioned before that the legacy especially for bigger countries could be a bit like a ball in a chain. Who do you think has a big problem with legacy is that the United States is that the European Union or is the tresham. They are a bit different in. A bit different but i think when looking at countries that have played a big role in the world like British Society has france. Turkey russia japan or all the United States its so difficult for them to understand that if things are going wrong its its not only question of this is that they are there. They have to go. In front of the mirror and to look at what we should do and im coming from a small country and probably in the smaller countries its easier to do that and to understand that something went wrong but something. Small country that is now part of a. Thing that. Has been able to look at self in the mirror and to see some of the good things that. Some of the difficulties that it. Has its problems but but but. Its if you look at figures its a bit more than one percent of g. D. P. And 99 percent of everything is in the ads and i think that the problem is that the European Union is overestimating its capacity and its trying to come too much to issues which are actually easier to be taken care of National Governments and local governments see that and the opposite way its not good enough when looking at trade issues. Environmental issues or security and safety issues. Its always a pleasure talking to you thank you very much my person thank you. Same place same time here. In this community there are people who believe that its ok. Its really hard there are no jobs and you see that ive got kids that ask and as a parent. I can come up with lots of arguments theres a lot of conflict in the games between the teams most of the conflicts i would say over balls around money and most of them money is made. Close one on each of those he knows each other is good because the state of california alone makes 6000000000. 00 a year of prison complex just to get some 20 a life where. You dont care and cares about your so your care might anything. Cast calendar is downright alfonzo any longer he is darned theres change and pain change dard served our right. His 1st words were had a lot of us here a challenging post youve got 2 years to live. I have no doubt that what happened was scriven. Lets concentrate market is a 1000000000. 00 industry these companies have a huge financial motivation to solve these problems there are numerous stocks showing that dont just work keen to test facts right concentrate straight insights and its all that Patients Want gives them says the wrong stoplight long term from the start why they would keep me from secure those years day. People still die i dont know which question or so i tried being allowed to live when somebody had. Just. Moved through and theyre like a cook now helping move paid and morgan through the house. Or mike i think im ready to work that for a placement and youre headed to the starboard see the cards and well do in fact underneath like today to install the International Docking adapter 3 to pressure. If you are. Here for around. Us need to donald trump comes to a state visit to denmark after calling remarks made by its Prime Minister not stink she had rejected his offer to buy greenland saying it was absurd also to come Aid Organization oxfam lashes out to him 7 countries had the best summit this weekend and he says to them driving Global Inequality with that paula since the quality hard to reach the increased over the last the last year actually the 12th of richest billionaires was growing while the wealth of the poorest half of society had fallen. And not as easy as it looks our correspondent takes to the skies with russias elite aerobatics taking before them access show. About