To pass with them or a rest stop or anything why is that to these i think because our vision for scotland is for a better place and other scotland is possible we want to see Better Outcomes for all the people that live here it doesnt matter if youve been in scotland 5 minutes or 50 years youre scottish so with that positive light behind it and to be fair as well Police Scotland have just been so supportive an excellent every single march to go on theyve just been sterling so we march with whole can our hearts and a smile in our faces and we are pretty convinced were going to get there the lace pull as youll know is 53 percent and i believe rising so we know were getting there as well but these marches attract plenty of demonstrations of people who are for busy the union theres only tension between the 2 groups as that as the march proceeds. Not really all the marchers know that that small band are not representative no of the minority who want to stay in the u. K. We just smile and whistle and carry on by and what would be your outstanding memory from i. R. B. In smarts last out of the just arriving in the castle gate and looking back down union street and see in that sea of blue stretch all the way back as though these would be the wave of blue saltires the National Flag of scotland tories are absolutely and actually the cell towers the oldest National Flag in the world i mean the cell tower is no come to signify to us not to scotland it signifies hope signifies a better country for us to live in it signifies an end to Nuclear Weapons and a fairer greener country which is our aspiration and i think the aspirations of the whole movement well to these or thought a little bit of history thank you very much for joining us from the granite city of our boom its a pleasure alex thank you well thats the most recent and up and the smarts and scotlands knowledge and city of our beam but to talk about the early days of these marches a caught up a bad lot of money saying and when the big donald whos speaking in a personal capacity. Well less lovely sunny did it but im going to be joined by money sitting by when the big carrot when you started this campaign of demonstrations and i mean if you have. 100 people showed up and it was you know it was quite disheartening that people started marking us on nothing else out really make any impact how much hes going to be asked to tell you nobody cared you know theres a after 2014 defeat you had over 100000 people on the cubas older dont you have all this is where you had your big game all the user you had all the way from here to here were full docent is all they did to him you know with the cube of the station on the d. Remember independents my you know sort of interesting so when we dont we shouldnt question of the memories of these shes a mile a memory was the way it was a 100 people you could shave by to someone and then you could answer them by and it was so small compared to today. Over 100. 00 made. Fun you could start at the back you about saying hey jimmy back out to see the fine i think oh i just drank until. Something awful is. Trying to spoil something you know i know mark has fossil impossible. To make people think you know that the Mainstream Media peters as a minority but issues that we know im a normal a big force on issues of one people fighting for one cause when be when you go into your last year of you suddenly realize my goodness this is going to be 100000. Your thoughts there well our our life student the march to the front on the numbers come and then that oh my you could feel the fly i didnt have the parts of hey many see of course a lot of friends and just this really heartwarming scene of a day coming together that is what martin. On the one cause youre not just going for the big numbers are you willing to state that youre thinking of all. The people as the people to the marches and what theyre framed and there are a lot of people who are quite tightness our skin could become to pay off could be coming to comfort so really. This latest spread of sales i want in the country because they say i was i would look back in the baltics and be admonished they have one of the baucus mt kisco and some other thing in its history and that was a sale. Term and so youve had this momentum gathering behind democracies. And its self anough familial the obviously your objective is not just to keep the view of the big bag of them out which is that youre trying to have a weight of political and by a boy evidence can you point to money saying that youre having that discussion effect on the population be getting people talking about independents again touched on earlier on as we went to dumfries there was 10000 people there thats. 10000 employees a bag number and one of the biggest things weve seen those businesses coming out and smiling because we dont welcoming mark you know as more hatred compared to other marches that take place in scotland stuck in the stone age but its welcoming and people want to be part of the something new a new scotland a new new scotland everyone is welcome no but the miracle of television i know you have a couple of quick so to un prosperity and. Ranking here. Thank you very much having spoken to some of the independents campiness i know talking to the organization which has live streamed every single one of these marches kevin give me from independence live welcome to the excitement you how you alex. You must have seen the these marches growing in number i mean you know when you started covering the 2 people in a dug out what was yeah i remember the. But i dont think we actually lifestream that was his real reaming there was that we have it to 300 people in glasgow out of ember shelagh alone he says feel cheer on the rain pouring in and. Glasgow summer. So was that only because eventually at least the boxes were being ignored or mocked by the Mainstream Media was and the parents live other sponsor that to get the message across its a centrist and you know why stephen is a great way to bypass against the need to end they can do the mobile phone now and then if hes interested get in contact with us well show you how you do if youre good you know so given the success of a live broadcast by a mobile phone or by other means of across the country are you going to move into other Media Outlets now well weve got a new platform for getting information a discussion to pens cetera and i was started and the ally thought radio so thats been going since last year its still soft launch. Still try to get more people to do a coin ted photos but you know its quite sane and we also we can write were a radio stream life streams and stuff so its quite an interesting mash of technologies and its all good love and kevin thank you for appearing on this mainstream. Savage show there are problem no problem just or good. Like you. After the break when alex interviews 2 of the most celebrated political activist everything yes from both sides of the atlantic. Lead. Seems wrong. To shape our. Engagement because the trails. Find themselves worlds apart. To look for common ground. What politicians do something to. Put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. So when you want to be president. Or some want. To go right. This is what the. 3 of them will be good. Interested always in the water. Going back to medieval days you have the church which is like the monetarists present day 21st century where they would discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin they were in power in close. To little model and now weve got new feudalism are you guys central bankers discussing how many derivatives can be stuffed into a Workers Pension fund weve got folks in San Francisco in newark new jersey die from medieval diseases. Welcome back to discuss the effectiveness of political protest alex turns 1st to veteran campaigner for human rights Peter Tatchell the motto of the one person protest ramirez quit in moscow for the pulpit a concert because the Peter Tatchell 1st came to public prominence as the unsuccessful labor Party Candidate and the bermondsey byelection one of the most bruising contests of the 20th century the last 40 years he has continued to the headlines of one of the most courageous Campaign Official nights and jeno. Rights in particular in the city as weve looked at the politics of protest for the last century in recent years some of the Great Campaign some rock against racism in the 1970 s. All the worlds a moment of you somebody whos been involved in many of these campaigns but also has specialized as a courageous Single PersonHuman Rights Campaign and the like the majority of people thought your people welcome back to the. Glad to join you again so did. You as a human rights activists below the last 40 years or so youve been involved many of the protests but youve also had a bit of a specialty in the Single Person campaigns of a group of people making a point is that because you believe that a subject acquired the sort of attention that was some of the highlights of all of these sort of campaigns well all of the single or small person protests were very secretive had to be kept very secretive because they involve i wanted to surprise such as ambushing president Robert Mugabe of zimbabwe in london in 1909 such as going to the pulpit of the archbishop of canterbury dr george carey the year before in 1980 mostly used to in terms of the this is what Robert Mugabe will still pursue and i go after the u. K. Foreign office and nobody else still in that the pomp of his power. Would tell in london a bit to your personal cost of other book about the what exactly happened there well together with 3 of the members of the Group Outrage we sought to make a citizens arrest the president mcgarvie on charges of torture this was an l. G. Beauty plot issue it was about torture and so when he drove out of his hotel james called hotel near victoria we ran in front of his the machine forcing it to hold i opened the rear car door amazingly it was unlocked and pretty much door rest under charges of torture and in front of the law president Robert Mugabe i hereby arrest you as a citizen under International Law because of your abuse of human rights as above exactly and you shouldve seen the look on his face or did he say i mean he is very dark skinned but a visible ash and palak came across his face hes jaw dropped his eyes popped you know abuse hands in front of him like a frightened 10 year old kid i think he probably thought hes going to be killed. To which i thought in my mind now you know what your victims feel like and we are going to kill you were going to take you to a court of law well have a chance to defend yourself so harm then the his henchmen promise upon your village a good way of the demise of the heart of the president well we of course some of the police which is the requirement under the power of citizens arrest the police were not interested in the legal dos your we had for his arrest instead we were arrested and present mcgarvie was given a Police Escort to go Christmas Shopping at harrods the one of the other of the marches as you mentioned you occupied the pulpit of the bishop accountability just as he was about to deliver these stuff homily. How did that go well we had tried to have a dialogue with the archbishop george carey for 8 years he refused to meet us or anybody from the old you plus community so thats why in desperation of the last resort we went into his cathedral and all we did was walk up into the pulpit and we held up placards highlighting the antigay laws that he was supporting like the right of he said employers shouldnt the dancers have the right to sack someone from that because they were gay that you know legal recognition of same sex relationships that same sex couples are unfit to foster or adopt children etc and then i simply delivered an alternative sermon which was on the lines of discrimination is not a christian value would describe the father member a little g. B. T. Commuters said peter was. I think some did yes but the upshot was that i was arrested. And eventually charged under the ecclesiastical courts jurisdiction act of 860. 00 formally part of the brawling act of 5051. 00 and under that law its illegal to interrupt a minister of religion in a place of worship the aspiration was so embarrassed when it got out that we only did this after he refused to meet us for 8 years that he did. Eventually meet with that has been a Christian Movement he did dramatically reduce his lobbying of members of parliament to oppose quality and he did prompt other bishops in the church to speak out in favor of l g b t rights so it had a very positive impact so 20 years on. The rate certainly in terms of mileage recognised in the u. K. With the exception thus far of Northern Ireland again looking back people would say well look at that protester going for it because what seemed a protest one of the a prosecution that at the time though was the excepted the law of most of this law and whats right when i look back you know when i began in 1967 at the age of 15 there were so many things that seemed insurmountable odds like apartheid was in full swing and people thought it would never change but it did thanks to the contribution of millions of people in south africa and worldwide. About margaret thatchers poll tax you know she said it was not negotiable there wasnt going to be no rowing back on the poll tax but eventually because of the mass protests she did recant and the poll tax is now history so for me protest is the lifeblood of democracy all the rights of freedom we have are the result of protest thats how it began protest and then eventually parliamentary change of course campaigning career over these decades youve been largely associated with equality of campaigns but thats not been your only campaigns and did you have any campaigns as a boy or steward i think one of them was for Aboriginal Land rights thats right and against the Death Penalty against australian involvement in the vietnam war against apartheid yeah im a multiverse campaign and for me i believe in the principle of universal human rights for everyone regardless of who they are but let. This attach will put it to a personal cup of. Moscow i think that was a major news for the 2nd loan the globe saw the modern Technology Must of made the protests easier facilitated put it much easier to organize much easier to mobilize lives under the people because social media provides such a ready instant access people to outsource resales got to langley of all im rick along with you continue your protests thank you very much thank you. To pick this summer of political protest into context alex tend to Medea Benjamin the american political activist cofounder of quit pink and the fair kid at the secret Global ExchangeMedea Benjamin foamed of course 5 of code pink welcome to the alex salmond show nice to be on with you out medea this Summer Season the Extinction Rebellion in london weve seen the protests and more school about elections the julies wrong im in france the spectacular protests in hong kong in recent weeks are we living through an age of protest are we back in 1968 or is it just the social media everything is happening across the world i think the protests around the climate are new and are global and are a huge and theyre only going to grow as this is a planetary issue that affects us all but then in some other areas i think were seeing less for example we saw in the middle east all of the uprisings around the arab spring and that spread from one country to another but now that it looks like the results of those were not so positive i think thats put it damper on some other protests in the middle east for example so i think were constantly seeing ups and downs in protests but around the climate this is enormous and will only grow but the about when youre one of americas most celebrated activists across a range of causes in human rights how has your campaigning been affected by the social media age do you do things differently know as a result of social media actually the issues that i am most involved in which is trying to stir up wars have been harder to organize not critically because of the social media age but just because the wars have become so buzzy theyve been. And on for the last 20 years its harder to get people out on the streets so thats an example about how the issues are still extremely important but social media isnt a number to galvanize people if its not something that is really getting them home and really affecting them immediately so i think social media can be a key to mobilizing like we see in hong kong but they also think that before social media we had enormous protests we had mass protests around civil rights issues in the United States when there was no base bar no twitter no instagram looking at that age of campaigning the most famous perhaps campaign of the recent generation if you think about it can society as made progress across the range of issues on in the champion age is a sign a sign of for a vashon in the United States well certainly weve made progress over the years and we are making progress than forcing our government to deal with issues like getting us out of the war as weve been in for 20 years or issues around the. Police brutality racism issues but they have in the age of trump there are so many issues we have the crisis of immigration and our borders we have the issues increasing white supremacist the we have the issues. Our protest but then we have the other side protesting as well the people who want to take away womens rights to abortion the people that want to show their ability to use hate speech openly and are in our streets so there are protests and. Both sides but i do think that we are constantly making progress its just that new issues keep us during the trial we feel like we have whiplash because were always going from one crisis to another more recently visited my home country of scotland to campaign against the Trident Nuclear system how did you find protesting in scotland well i think its a time where there is not as strong as protest against Nuclear Issues but there certainly was a lot of excitement to ballot independence in scotland and now independence with mean the end to having Nuclear Submarines based in scotland so i found a lot of excitement around that and what message would you have for the more comfortable establishment the sun the your country and in other words about the intention of Medea Benjamin to continue our campaigning i think that the issues that were facing whether its war or climate destruction and continued raises the fight for democracy around the world theyre not going to go away those are issues that we myself included care deeply about these are lifelong struggles and people should get involved in it get active because the more of us that get active the sooner that were behind this the results on these issues and the better our world will be for it but the event im thank you so much keep on campaigning thank you nice to be on your show. In our series on political protests we filmed fire and white in looking at the history of activism stretching from working class glasgow 100 years ago the middle class london of the present. In the modern world the impact of protests has been amplified by an extraordinary amount in the age of social media this allows demonstrations to not just be substantially better attended but also to have much wider coverage when i took a line on this topic to media who often look askance at demonstrations especially those in their own countries however the successful demonstration across more than just imaginative and impactful social Media Coverage it took was a cause that people are prepared to believe in often at substantial price no cost that much at least has not changed in the last century. Join us next week when we turn from International Politics of protest to the parliament to politics or big no deal bricks it in the u. K. With pother back from recess in 2 weeks time while the m. P. s change from 91 the beaches to do you think they. Will be joined by 2 key commentators who predict the fireworks to. Kill them from alex line all the to get by and we will see you. But ill just shut. Themselves up a lot. To get accepted or rejected. So if you want to present. Something i want to. Watch it right. Its like. A good. Idea theres always a lot. Cash calendar is Darren Alfonzo among. Those changing paid change dard survey or. His 1st words were at a low a c. Or a challenging post youve got 2 years to live. I have no doubt that what happened was criminal. Defense concentrate market is a 1000000000. 00 industry these companies how does huge financial motivations the saudis problem there are numerous stockings showing that doctors were keen to chest x. Ray concentrates for insights of its own that patients wont give them doctors the raunch to play golf or turn to stone why they would give me consecutive doses day after day and people still die i dont always question michel i tried being hard to live where so many have. In this community there are people who believe that its ok to suffer x. Food on my table its really hard there are no jobs and you see that ive got kids that ask and as a parent. I can come up with lots of arguments and theres a lot of conflict in the game and between the 2 things most of the conflict i would say overall is around money and most of them money is made. Close one on each other does he know each other is Good Business the state of california alone makes 6000000000. 00 a year of the prison complex just to get some 20 a life where. You dont care and one of my cares about you so your care might anything. Good. Going back to medieval days you had the church which is like the monetarists present day 21st century where they would discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and they were in power and they enclosed this little model and now weve got neo feudalism where you guys central bankers discussing how many derivatives can be stuffed into a worthless action fund and weve got folks in San Francisco in newark new jersey dying for medieval diseases. Give me to. Cope with them we said. Theres enough of them old but im also the most companies you know so ive been a good who says you know. When i meet with. This company she most people almost janish you know he goes from didnt you know shes going to shes just put you through a coke. 0 sum and im going to the notion of you seem to you i dont know you kind of this. Little kid is. A. Little bit of you come up to your list. So do you. Know men because the. Us later donald trump cancels a state visit to denmark off the calling remarks by its Prime Minister not a state she had rejected by bringing in the cooling it. Both sides of the maid organized family lashes that g 7 countries ahead of their summit this weekend accusing them of driving global inequality. Policies. Which increased over the last year. The wealth of richest billionaires was growing while the wealthy porch top of society had full. On the head of a major in the Moscow Region all correspondent takes to the skies with russias elite Aerobatics Team gets behind the truck