Whom had never met before and all of whom fundamentally disagree with one idea but you know one particular feature of groups like isis is that again violence is not just a means to an and for them it is part of that doctrine they simply don see so to the people like b. Z. s as humans and. Im sure youve heard of some of the horrors they perpetrated on the women and children maybe there are some gravitas as that are driving their behavior but rather than analyzing those grievances dont you think that we have to stop them first i dont think that the methods for using at the moment to stop them are working. If you if you look at the way that we have ourselves fetishizing them by putting there any time that a suicide bomber succeeds in paris or brussels or wherever we put their their faces on the front page of the newspaper they become martyrs they become heroes to their own society and its high time that we stopped doing that that we for bedo media to give them the oxygen of publicity i covered theory a lot they werent there and i met people you know mothers who were raped in the view of their children some mothers who saw their children being killed in front of them just would be for the enjoyment of it without any purpose. How would you personally start a conversation with such a person who enjoys who revel in seeing human suffering they have been such people throughout history and terrible terrible inflicts if you think of the grief and the trauma inflicted not just on the mothers and fathers but the children as well its unforgivable and nobody can condone that but what im saying is its not new i think its time now in this century to move out of Twentieth Century methods of using force against force and find out how to use an advanced consciousness to deal with people who are clearly working from a very base consciousness. Well im not sure their consciousness is even based one because theyre very deliberate very deliberate in their intention to harm i just again im sorry to be revolving around around the same question but. If you if you consider the experiences of some of these even with women theyre just mind boggling you cant imagine that a few men being for whatever purpose would be capable of that. Whats the point of talking to people like that who again kill two three year old children do you think you can bring them back into society that i dont know that i dont know what i do know is that a person like mandela went into jail in one hundred sixty three believing in violence twenty seven years later after the incredible experiences he had in jail he came out believing that only nonviolence would work in negotiating with the most one of the most brutal governments the world has ever seen i lived in south africa for ten years i saw it at first and i know what that kind of violence is and mandela developed the qualities the inner qualities the courage and the ability to bring his colleagues with him. Because they wanted to have a civil war weapons were being thrown at them to have a civil war he managed to convey to his colleagues the need to avert a civil war by negotiating by mediating between those incredibly violent people that you know one difference between institutional violence and these nonstate violence that weve been seeing over the last couple of years is that states even the most repressive of them they need some domestic or International Legitimacy and this is the average you can use against them they cant afford to. Use unjustified cruelty these groups can and they also do that for the for the very purpose of promoting that so i wonder if that example really applies here because the South African regime has repressed as it was was part of the International Community and it was trying to still yeah im aware of that about the apartheid but there is still a need for them to explain themselves i says doesnt need to explain its up to anyone let me ask you a question do you think the methods for using at the moment are working i think that they may not be. Effective in the medium term but when i think about many women that i met in syria war god the bodies of that age are going to have iris and mother i would certainly indoors the killing of the people who did that i think the world would be a better place without them. Yes but the method three using at the moment are not minimizing this kind of fighting and one thing i love to bring in here is the work you work at the return of a woman in saving and many of the years the women and children and the extraordinary courage that they used in going into that area and bringing them out i think those are the kind of issues we should be highlighting and very few people have talked about now one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you is because the calls for nonviolence have these very noble connotation in the west but on the other hand they are also a very often used for geo political reasons for example this country the United Kingdom condemned the use of force by the governments and libya and syria while also supporting armed groups who are openly challenging though it is governments dont you think that sometimes it is more honest to discuss difformed of violence that can be used to compel the states to comply with the laws of war rather than calling for nonviolence especially one nonviolence disadvantages your enemies think if you go back to the beginning of what happened in syria you remember that the initial resistance to the assad regime was no violence im not sure that was the good because i think right now there have already been document documented evidence from the very beginning saudi arabia interfere with that conflict that not only starts out arabia alqaeda that was in iraq. Its operatives into syria very quickly i think you know and i know that the conflict in syria was a proxy war. And we know that the different sides the sunni and shia forces in the world were really playing out their game and syria and do you think in this iteration of proxy wars and i think every work these is a proxy war do you think the violence can really be applied across the board because this to me that if what even if one side tries it the other side would certainly take advantage of it. I think we have to look of course it doesnt always work and of course many people many very brave people are killed using nonviolence but the key thing that ive learned from people like gandhi and mandela is that the quality of the nonviolence depends on the way that the individual has confronted their own fear and this is what i mean by using at a heightened intelligence a heightened consciousness and there are countless examples of this. Recently for example i was talking to a lens in the dunce cap and if you look at the film footage of him confronting the then or thora tease in poland you can see that he was unstoppable he was not afraid and so there was very little they could do with him but negotiate getting such stories is still possible today can you think of any country apart from lets say the north korea went bad example this is going on everywhere my organization that i started off to the Oxford Research group is called peace direct to in order to set up that organization we identified how many nonviolent locally led initiatives there are worldwide this was in one thousand nine hundred nine we were able through thirty two criteria to identify three hundred fifty initiatives we did the same thing last year and there are now fifteen hundred now these are people many many of them women who. Lead. Methodology to. Dispel violence through their encourage let me give you an example. My own was fifteen in the swat valley of northwestern pakistan probably one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a woman and she decided to get young girls into school with her curly mother the use of a tie and milo got shot in the head for doing it completely under turd went on she has now set up a training scheme for young men and young women two hundred fifty of them to go into them addresses and talk to the young men who are being trained for jihad. And then go home with them to their families and discuss why the court would not approve of suicide bombing they have to sway did two hundred and three suicide bombers from carrying out their mission. Now we are aware of fifteen hundred examples of what is going on completely below the radar of the media all over the World War Three we have to take a very short break now but well be back in just a few moments stay tuned. For. Its the cradle of jazz. This is america is the america we have. Put knows this jazz feel. A city of climatic contrast to fish of alligators on the loose of poverty and crime of the years by the at least twelve members of mob family close most murders of street racing in the heat of the night this is new orleans itself. The best place in the world. Join me every thursday on the alex simon show and ill be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business im showbusiness ill see you then. I had a great education a good job and a family that loved me. I never had to worry about how i would eat some where i would sleep. Im facing christmas alone out on the streets of london well you got to be a bit of a cut above the boy you like going to school you know to someone in the still give up food for the same. As you dont really feel like a human being you know. And then. The guy just came over to me so me and gave me a change of this book. Welcome back to worlds apart with still a worthy peace advocate and the founder of the Oxford Research group dr albright the let me ask you about one more woman who inspired millions of people around the world im talking about. Young mars civilian leader she used to be and i kind of for peaceful resistance when she was a poor opposing military who went to bed shes now presented particular in western media almost as a ruthless villain has your own view or her changed my empathy for her has not changed when you think what that woman went through she was challenge to by the then bernies government that if she wanted to leave the country to be with her family she could do so not come back she chose her country that meant that when her husband was dying of cancer she couldnt be with him it meant that she couldnt bring up her two sons so she missed a childhood completely. And she spent fifteen years in confinement in her own home with only her piano and this woman. Must have been very deeply scarred by those experiences and also by the courage that she had to show to lead this revolution so i can see that her judgment. May not be accurate in my world you are suggesting that her difficult life story may have hardened her up and i think thats a very polite way of. Putting it because shes now accused of. Sensually overseeing or playing along with what some british callers have already termed a genocide a preplanned deliberate genocide do you agree with that characterization i think whats happened with her here is very close to a genocide taking and it unforgivable and it should be immediately rectified and remedied where i think her she stands at the moment is that if she were to condemn it she would be immediately she would be put on a plane and then the hopes that people have placed in her would be lost so essentially what youre saying is the myanmar government with her is still better than the myanmar government without her. I believe so because if you look to their history. It is horrific and what they have done previously and i believe her influence has been civilizing now shes a graduate of oxford where students just voted to remove her name from the Junior Common Room where she used to study and it is just the latest in a number of local initiatives to strip her of her on ars having read her biography i think her character her belief system probably didnt change over the last couple of years do you think she was seen in her glory years do you think she was seen for what she was or or what people who were lavishing praise praise on her wanted to see i think we can today fight people who stand up against violence and i think that happened but i always perceived her new met him but ive always perceived her as quite modest under that glare of publicity so i dont think she allowed herself to be seduced or. Vanity to take of an article. Shes also a recipient of Nobel Peace Prize the word that i know you have been nominated for and the one that i assume is important for the Global Peace Community in general and this tension that there are now calls to strip her of that prize as well reminds me a little bit this situation of at the birth of barack obama who was given that prize early in his presidency before he made all those consequential decisions on the middle east doesnt it bother you that the noble peace prize this major global peace award. Became so associated through its recipients with Mass Violence well i think if you look at the most recent award of the Nobel Peace Prize that winter i can which is an empty Nuclear Global campaign trying to get the Nuclear Nations to join. Hundred twenty two of the nations round the table to plan a way to a nonnuclear world so that very different from what youve just outlined yeah absolutely but. You know the award is usually defined by a continuum of recipients and im just guess the question im asking is whether perhaps the Global Community has a tendency to rush in its judgments and to construct a miss rather than see a person i would judge the person id be and of hes or her career i think you have a point to think the board of the award to a bomber was far too early before we done anything really. And i think the award to can give for example i mean he if anybody should have been stripped of it i think that. Obviously. Would scheme like that makes mistakes and i think they have made them now going back to myanmar know that youve advised the group of elders before and one of them form a year and secretarygeneral kofi annan chaired the Advisory Commission on for him in the young maher which submitted its recombination is in late august and it looks like neither the Myanmar Military in the or the senior groups are really thrilled that theyve had that kind of recommendations and now formed a special agency to hopefully put some of the of the advice into practice what do you think. Will need to succeed in bringing the two sides to any sort of mutually agreeable solution courage. Determination and. And an effort i think the most effective way that she could use would be what people like mandela have used in similar circumstances which is to talk to each of the participants each of the protagonists individually and then attempt to bring them all round the table but if you gather people around a peace table who have never met each other and have never been listened to individually youre heading for trouble back in two thousand and seven said that she didnt hold no violence for more she didnt hold to nonviolence for moral reasons she thought it was a good political and pragmatic practical tactic and thats an very interesting way of putting it because i think its a very honest formulation and one could say that political and pragmatic reasons change a lot saw change depending on the on the circumstances whats your personal approach to it do you do you think nonviolence is some kind of or moral philosophy or do you also take it as a political tactic i think theres a practical methodology if you count up at last amended that sums i think there were seventeen or eighteen changes from a violent and abusive government to more democratic governments that had been achieved with by nonviolence using the methadone or g. s outlined in the existing literature which is now quite well known so if you count up all the Eastern European countries that with that happened but also many much lesser known examples i listed them all in in my ted talk so you can. You can see and the media doesnt really look at the examples where it has worked and and retained its efficiency in those. Countries but i wonder if if you approach it as a practical sort of pragmatic math a political math of whether its appeal would depend centrally on the circumstance because it could be argued theres a chance that she now doesnt see a value on violence thats why she does not protect those poor we do people we we dont know what she hasnt opened her mouth on that so we dont know we could speculate that we dont know but doesnt that damage their approach that youve given your life to advocate you not at all because there are so many examples ive outlined to you that there are fifteen hundred existing at this moment across the world and thats only on counting the prevention of war doesnt mean people who are we have been taking child soldiers or whatever theyre doing it no there are so many examples of it working that i campaspe agree with you that youre often argue for the empowerment of women suggesting that they are they have a more considerate approach to conflict resolution as you put it man are prone to conflict women a problem to protect do you still stand by that because you mentioned before the difficult life story of fun science a chance some would argue that you know it takes much more for women to succeed in politics to even succeed in nonviolence they may be actually more hardened then than when they said there is to anything i think the political systems that we have at the moment tend to filter to the top people who are very ambitious who are competitive who will use their elbows to get to the top and a lot of women have found that they needed to adopt a sickening so i dont think this is a gender issue i think this is an issue of feminine intelligence and masculine intelligence know that those qualities that are available to men as they are to women. And if you look at those qualities they include things like compression the ability to listen use your intuition use inclusive ity and be of service those are the some of the qualities at least of feminine intelligence and then i like to give you an example from the peace table as you probably know. The recent research that was done showed that around the average peace negotiating table two and a half percent of those sitting around the table offend a female result the agreements reached last no more than five years why because the needs of the victims of war women children the injured the old people are not taken into consideration in those Peace Agreements whereas when you have more when you have up to ten or fifteen percent of those around the table representing those interests you get Peace Agreements that last up thirty five years i agree with you that women are generally believed to be a more open to compromise and again i think to some extent miss the cheese a good example because she made some peace with her former enemies the military who and now shes being brown bit of britain for for that compromise with them and i think thats also very interesting. Feature that we may see more and more the line between compromise and treason you know the the betrayal of your values is very dodgy and i think women may also be if they more and more become part of the recall reconsideration after a day they can be accused of betraying their own where do you how do you define that line between compromise and giving too much. I believe that the answer to this lies in the stage before that and that is what i mentioned about listening because when two parties are being austin negotiate each one thinks im right and youre wrong im right and youre wrong and its not until each one is fully heard by the other using a mediator not a negotiator that you begin to get the ability of one side to understand the. Hurt fear etc etc of the other side and vice versa so its that ability to move from here which is my mind and says im right and youre wrong to hear and begin to move from a much more heart based position and that is the way to get results and thats what ive learned from all the people whove been really successful in this and used a different methodology from the normal. Very combative way of trying to reach a Peace Agreement well dr overtly thank you very much for your time i really appreciate your wisdom and to our viewers please share your comments on our Twitter Facebook and youtube pages and i hope to hear again same place same time here on worlds apart. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and they fell of the matter over their heads up saudi arabia these days is as corrupt as the day is long and hes just stealing money from folks and with us right to be had it but america is like that free for a while ok already there actually are in the process of reform but thats allowed evil. Los angeles the city of luxury and free but also an Alarming Number of People Living in the streets. The simple fact in l. A. Use theres just not enough shelter even if people on the streets right now decided to come in theres nowhere to come in and its been a struggle. This man from his own response to the problem and constructed dozens of tiny homes for people in need of shelter when you have nothing in order to go. You know having Something Like this may as well be a castle but do the authorities accept such solution. Me house on a city parking space is not a solution perth to someone wanted to ring the site otherwise it will be a free for all the news there are a better alternative to end the homelessness crisis. I. Know. Now that. The rawness rocks by musk pro and antigovernment rallies with at least twenty one People Killed with external pressure on fake images of protests online further fueling tensions. Sman adelines the u. S. And north korean leaders in gauging one upmanship over the science on power of the Nuclear Buttons and you hope emerges for a possible deescalation of the crisis with pyongyang agreeing to talks with the south for the first time in years. Also the south thousands of migrants are still sleeping rough on the streets of paris thats the spot president promised to find a solution before the end of twenty seventeen we hear some of their stories later in the program you look at this man a new clue people sleep through