Palestinians. The Palestinian Resistance moven hamas says israels attack on ali arabi hospital in gaza proves the regimes brutality and the extent of its feeling of defeat. Hamas also held the United States responsible for the carnage since washington gives coverage to israels relentless attacks on palestinians. The leader of irans Islamic Revolution has warned that no one can stop muslims and resistance group. If israel continues its crimes and the gaza strip stressed that the regime must be tried for its crimes in the palestinian territory. United nations has warned israel against the forcible transfer of civilians in the gaza strip saying it will lead to a breach of international law. Un Human Rights Office said that illegal temporary evacuation of civilians came with obligations on israel, which it has made no attempt to fulfill. Hi, im sean murray, and this is the conversation, where we take an alternative look, a political events, and Current Affairs through annaries. In this show, we hope to pick, probe, investigate and uncover the stories that you want to hear. We go, where mainstream wont go. This week we look at the topic of our fragile peace process, how does peace now look 25 years on from the signing of the good fredy agreement . Has Common Ground been made by former enemies or are we as polarized as ever. My next guest served in under the royal ulster constablary. Depending on what side of the political divide you come from, the rc were seen as a protectors of a community or an oppressive force against another. But before we speak to our next guest, lets get a quick overview on this weeks topic. As always, we are joined by our resident copresenter Michelle Gildernew. Michelle is the current np for fermana south toron. She is served in the northern arland assembly as a former minister for agriculture and rural development, and chairperson of the health committee, amongst other things. Michelle has been a shinfian activist since her teams and has been elected almost continuously since 1998. And todays guest is sam thompson. Sam is a former member of the royal olster constablary. He experienced the loss of number of. Colleagues and friends and saw numerous killings and bombings during the conflict. Sam retired in 2008 and has expanded on his love of history and his niile. Sam, welcome to the show. Yes, thank you. You grew up not far from where were sitting now uh, very different place from from this side of the wall. Do you want to tell us a bit about your childhood . Yes, well um, i came in this world was born in the Royal Victoria Hospital up the road, but the first house i was brought home to his dunde street just on the other side of the pace line, so all four my grandparents all live within about 300 yards from here, and my grandfather would have grown up in 9th street, which um runs down in the. Conway street, so i was very familiar with that lower shankel area when i was young, even though um my parents moved the ball silen, my grandparents continued to live down there, so was basically brought up in between the two, and sam, you joined the ruc, what motivated you to do that and what was its reputation like when you joined it . Right, um, in terms of motivation, i joined it pretty much by default, i didnt really. What to do with my life and im not at the stage where im retired and i still dont really know what to do with it um what year did you join and what e joined in 1979 and i was 18 on about four and a half months but the time we went in um so it was basically the economy here was unploding the place was rapidly deindustrializing and it was one of the few things that had any job security, now in terms of um reputation, there was none of the baggage and the Unionist Community regarding the rc, and my first memory of them is actually quite a positive one, i went to cliffenville Primary School and it must have been either 1970 or 1971, our School Sports day was attacked by um bigger kids from around the bone area and the teachers got u off with all the run, like theres coming over and chucking bricks and stuff at us and feeling absolutely terrified in the place arrived down in the school and remember feeling reassured and safe at the site of the police uniform. Now as a got older um 1970s was quite a brutal period an upround ballon and i dont know whether its true or not but like the word in the school was if you messed about with tenant straight or you got arrested you would get heading. And as this will sound absolutely weird to many your many viewers um, but the idea if youre arrested youre going to get bitten up the place, nobody thought this was strange, but on the unionist side of the house that was very much a thing too, um, but things have to change, so you can either say, well thats the way things are, or you can um try and change them a more positive. Way and once you joined the oucmc, you were you remember the oec for 28 years and was there a certain period or or a time or and im sure there were many dark times, was there something that stuck out in particular . Oh, well there were so many things, like particularly the first lot of years and when it was in uniform, you remember like the severe incidence and people have been shot and things like that, and all these sort of bloody things they tend to stick in your mind, the thing which. Travels with me the most and i wasnt even there was my best friend was killed during the Hunger Strike and this is this um and this is why this sort of republican celebration of it tends is sticking me a bit theres a lot of people died here and not didnt want to die and um he was blown up on the 7th of september um blowing the pieces basically only identifiable the fingerprints just turned 20 years of age and um he had been transferred to um pomeroy and that was his first day on duty, hes there for an hour and five minutes, and um, i still think about him and about that quite often, and then theres other people that know quite well as well, but you carry these things through your life, i think were all scared by what happened, and i suppose during your time in the oecc, we ever do you ever have the urge to join a paramal . Organization, were you ever pressurized to do that . Absolutely not, and even when i was growing up in ball selon, which were paramilitaries are very strong, and absolutely no inclination of it. I can give you story about how people did get into those sort of things and so about when i was 16, myself and a friend, we went but heard that um theres this bar in shankle road with serv, you werent too fussy about what age you were, so brown bear facing shankel library, so we went in, ordered a couple of pounds of harp. Sitting the table thinking were great guys, and then somebody comes over and start, all right fellows, starts chatting to you and i realize what this also where you from, all this sort of crack, your father and all this trying to figure out. Well youre catholics or not, like i dont think anybody whos catholics want to be doffed enough to go in there, and they say well um, what do you think this place . Fine, its all right, um, sure, um, we can swear you in tomorrow, nice is what he means for us in, he says, youre joining, arent you, i says, joining what, he says the uvf, and there spat my bear out, so was the first time id been in this place in my life, and within 10 minutes walking in over somebody coming over trying to get me to join a uvf, of course i never went back near the place, but i would give you some idea how easy it was for people to get involved and that sort of thing. And just on that uh, sam, were all shipped by our lived experiences, 100 . I understand you served in springfield road, yeah, uh, barrics as we call the springfied road police station, yeah, uh, that to me as a child grown up was a place, you know, you heard stories of family members being tortured, even. Friends of mine yeah that were in there were we were beating and to me as as a child grown up the all you see were the enemy but obviously you had different lived experiences you were inside there looking out yeah do you want do you want to tell us a bit about yeah well its just um yes 1983 and i arrived up in there not too long after the Hunger Strike and the place had very forbidden appearance it didnt have the blast wall around it down it just had this war outside and and the reason they have a blast wall is to put bomb out there that rack hundreds of houses around it because it was rare place youre right in the middle of people and the yard of it had a big um corregated 10 fence and there was holes on it from where somebody had chucked the hanger head over and a quiet evening you could be standing out there in the front yard and you could hear the televisions of people in vallet street who. And their living rooms were seriously about six or seven feet from the front year, so like the noise that they must have had from all the police and Army Vehicles and it was primarily an army post, like the ruc was down in um one corner of it, um, and the army occupied about 80 of the building, so we had like army pigs and stuff like that, parked about inside it, the army did the secur and then again it was overrun by furle cats, and you get these squatties running about drawing cats in the toilets and stuff, like it was unreal, but in the Inquiry Office you had like these um bulletproof shotters over the windows, theres no natural light, and then behind it you had all these old newspapers must have been stuff to keep the draft out one day pilled them out like the were did it from 1972 and stuff like that um as a working environment it was horrible it was the facilities you know were grim, it was dangerous, it was noisy, but probably um the best bunch of people ever worked with her, we ch it earlier you had mentioned and i was amazed at the uh at the anally you had of ruc men and personnel they were killed just around springfield year old you want to tell us well well for a start um a george cross was one in the Inquiry Office 1972 a power troop threw himself in a bomb which had been dumped in there um shortly before i arrived theres a soldier killed at the caventy street entrance by an rpg7 guy to work with he is the first one down to attend to him and the war head of the rpgs apparently went through the wall the sanger and lodged inside them and again the year before three soldiers have been shot they had been m60 machine gun around the corner in um arras street. 1979 there was a ruc officer shot dead as they reversed the land rover out the front gate and i think somebody had counted it up that there must have been about more than 20 members of Security Forces killed within about 30 yards of the front gates of the place and along the front of the building was like riddled with bullet holes where cars used to drive up and down and spray the place. Sam you also served into her own are there any was it very different serving along the border and are there any particular stories or reminisces that you have from that time . Yeah, well rural areas are are very different from urban ones, um, intrown as a sergeant and the mobile support unit, so though we packed up the local police in dungarnon, we also could be all over the place, like we went up to belfast up at answorth avenue, the time the uvf guy blew himself up at preater, but dunganon changed me, um, at one week, um, whereas with. About 25 feet of three bombs inside a week, none of which went off properly. I remember thinking, i cant do this anymore, i need to get out of this cuz. Wasnt too long after two friends at Colin Mcmurray used to work with arma, she had been killed in uri and another guy, probably nobodys ever heard of guy called billy evans, he ironically was killed by the army, out the foot patrol up the new barnsley and an army landover and over and killed them, i remember speaking him a few months before said, get out of there, um, i dont believe in much, but i believe in the law of averages and if you push your luck too long, sooner or later somethings going to happen to you. So i think the deaths of those two were praying on my mind and i thought i need to get a job in headquarters or something you know because id gone through all these years of sort of near misses and something happened the somebody change the shift with me and seeing things happen the other people and i thought its a matter time for it happens to me so um applied for job and training and got that and we crossed our ows me and yourself through uh reconciliation yeah, how has it been for you on that kind of journey in reconciliation . Um, it hasnt made a profound difference. Um, i think as you get older you start to reflect in life, and theres an old saying if you think the same at 40 as you did in 20, youve wasted 20 years, and and i started this interview by saying i basically come from a couple hundred yards away, and the thought of. To me one day, the idea that someone should be eternal enemy because they happen to be born 200 yards away from you or born on the other side of a street from is absolutely absurd, its absurd, but thats a situation that we find herself in here, so i thought of that, and again, occasionally you see these little um inspirational quotes, which may or may not be true, theres one supposed to be from Martin Luther king, said that um. Hitting someone is like um drinking poison and hoping theyll die, i could hit michelle all i want, youre not probably not even going to know, but its not going to affect your life, but itll affect mine, and um, is it going to make me any happier . No, will it bring anyone back . No, is it going to make the future any better . For people that are children, are unborn . No, so some people. Thats our way to get through life is carrying grudges and resentments and hate, i just think it doesnt do any good and and it wasnt making me feel any better, you know, um, i badlarge dont suffer from ptsd or anything that i more, and i think this has helped because in my mind the war is over, theres other people cant accept that its over, for many, many reasons, some entirely legitimate, theyve suffered lot worse than i have. Um, but as far as im concerned, its a right thing to do, its not going to change the world, but i think its up each and every individual to do their own little bit. I agree with you sam, i think hate is very negative emotion and very wasteful, and you know, we all we all have to move on, so where do you stand on the reunification question . Have you thought about our future politically . I am, these days im pretty agnostic on it, um, i was. Always a supposed small you unionist, it wasnt a die hard, like i agreed with a statement heard quite early in my time in the place, where somebody says to me, um, im not too bothered about a united ireland, what i am, bothered about is somebody trying to bomb me into it, um, any sort of affection i had for the union died on the morning of the brexit referendum, not to me as watershed moment, um, because that to me showed it doesnt matter what we think here, you know, its what england wants really, i know people say as uk wide referendum, but theres no way that scotland and Northern Ireland should have been forced out against this will, scotland in particular is like a distinct country and all the rest of it, and i also just think is incredibly stupid, i think that um the uk basically that they decided to commit services. And im convinced to that, i think that historians look back that is the day when the union was fatally wounded and it was a selfinflicted woound and on that what would you like to see from republicans to go that extra bit that would maybe convince you uh that reunification i think the i see a bit of schizophrenia from republicanism and the one hand theres this outreach we want peace but on the other theres a sort of like constant propaganda war which is still being waged and quite a bit of hostility continually refighting the troubles and at some stage this is going to have to stop, you know, um, unionisthood relations in the police or udr arent going to look upon their relatives as evil child killers anymore than relatives, the ira men are going to regard their relatives and that, and all its doing is winding people up and giving people um an excuse not to talk to them, um, i think as society, and im not just pointing the finger republicans here. Its all over, we need to stop absolutely wallowing in the past, were not remembering it, were walllowing in it, i did an article once that japan recovered from two atom bombs, quicker than Northern Irelands recovered from the troubles, 15 years after hiroshima, they were hosting the olympics and one of the best economies in the world, is they just decided the were not going to talk about all this, were just going to move on, make better. Youre still tuned into the conversation, your weekly alternative probe of political events and Current Affairs through an arrice lens. Im joined by my cohost Michelle Gildernew alongside historian and former rucman sam thompson. All right, so close to where you were born and brought up, sam, theres a a Massive Community festival, and that come out of a commemorating the or remembering internament, and and then turn it became. Way replicated, i know, its its it looks at and of remembering the past, um, so you know, do you think that Something Like that could be speaks to people from all political persuasions and none and its just such an inclusive festival, you know, have you attended any events or, i have indeed, ive attended events in the past, and i think its a very positive thing, because i said, i arrived in springfield road 40 years ago, and um, i remember those annual internament things and it was sort of like that film the perge, you know, um, the civilians sort of took it upon the night, anything goes from both them and the place, like there was batten rounds fired in and and there could be written off in a form, which any other time the year that would be what did you do that for . But those internament nights it was like ritualistic riding and you had people hurt and people occasionally getting killed, so i think thats a mar, ill give credit where i show you, thats marvelous credit, primarily to shin and for turning that round, have very destructive time and do something more positive, um, some of the events are more across community than others, but thats okay, you know, if i dont want to go to something, i wont, you know, its like um, the annual bobby sounds march, and may or whatever. Doesnt bother me cuz i dont have to go anywhere near it, so yeah thats good and i would like to see that being extended across the shankle and east belfast and maybe have a whole summer of cultural events, but you know i think those events are worthwhile because um youve now got you know unionists going to them and now um one of the commentators is going along and its letting also people in west belfast speak directly to people. That they would normally speak to, so i think its all generally quite positive, i know theres a bit of controversy about one or two things, but band large approve of it. This week we take a look at the history of partition, how was areland devaded and what does that meant for the population of the north over this last 100 years. The official partitioning of ireland took place in may 1921, via an act passed by the british parliament. The original intention. Was for both regions to remain within the united kingdom, but the irish war of independence led to the south succeding from the uk in 1922. Attempts at legislating the government of ireland act first began in 1886, the government of ireland act of 1920 was the fourth try at establishing home rule in ireland, that is, affording the country a certain amount of freedom to selfgovern while retaining its position as part of the united kingdom. Up to that point, ireland had ruled by the Uk Parliament via their administration at dublin castle. Ever since the Irish Parliament was abolished through the acts of union 1800. After many attempts at negotiating the division of the nine northernly counties of olster from the 23 remaining countries that compriseed munster, lenster and connucht. Only six counties within ulster were included in the fourth irish home rule bill of 1920. This was to ensure a protestant majority for many years to come. After the third home rule bill was passed in 1912, ulster unionists had founded a Paramilitary Force named the olster volunteer force with the intention of resisting the bills implementation by violent means. Many British Army Officers stationed in ireland resigned, and with nationalists having established their own military army and response, with both sides importing arms, a civil war seemed imminent. Eventually, a trial period of partition was also included in the third version of the irish home rule bill to appease unionists, but when world war one broke out in 1914, the bill was suspended in attempt to take advantage of britains destraction with the war an insurrection was launched by irish revolutionaries on easter 1916. Following this rebellion, more attempts were made to reach a compromise, such as the 191718 Irish Convention in dublin, with little success, in 1919, the irish war of independence officially began. The government of ireland act was enacted in 1920, and the island was partitioned the following year. Home rule never came into effect in the south. Instead, the angloirish treaty of 1921, which ended the war in ireland, allowed the selfgoverning irish free state to be created, and thus the partitioning of ireland became official. And that does it for another week. Wed love for you to join the conversation by sharing the link to todays program to help us grow our audience across all our social media platforms. Id like to thank our special guest, sam thompson and our resident cohost michelle. In the meantime, the conversation will be back next week with more investigations and analysis. Im sean murray, bye for now. This is. In this special edition of palestine declassified, were going to examine the extraordinary armed uprising of the Palestinian People against the zionist entity. And clearly has been a an operation planned for many, many months in gaza, and with other resistance factions across the territories, and its its taken them entirely by surprise, but also more importantly, it has inflicted an extremely significant military, intelligence and psychological defeat on this and understand that this is the first time in over 50 years where a senior military leader is in the hands of the resistance movements in the hands of the palestinians, be huge bargaining chip in order to get uh over 500 palestinians who have been languishing in israeli jails for for years and لسه عمري 10 سنين ايش اعمل يعني بيجيوا يقصدوا يعني اسرائيل كثير عصبت علينا يعني مش عارفه ايش اعمل يعني كل مكان بروح لازم الاقي قصر حامله جواز بريطاني جوازي انا جايه على غصي افرح مش جاي على غصتي هيك اشوف احتر حرب لحظه اموت يعني ايش اعمل خايفه اموت مش عارفه اكل الاكل قليله و مقطوع الميه ولا نت ما كهرباء ولا شيء. اذا يعني يعني كيف بدنا نعيش كده يعني ولا ميه كيف نشرب مش عارفه ايش اعمل يعني برضو كل مكان بنخلي في برده فيها قصب مش عارفه وين اروح في قصب ويمكن اموت يعني. That minds, it is rady air strike a hospital in gaza kills hundreds of palestinians with hundreds of others. Still trapped under the rubble. Israels savage attack a hospital in gaza draws vehement International Condemnations with irans president slamming it as a war crime. And also hamas says israels attack a hospital in the besieged gaza strip proves the regimes brutality and the extent of its uh feeling of defeat