Between 1969 until it officially ended in 2007. My next guest served in various units of the british army during this period and later became member of veterans for peace. But before we speak to our next guest, lets get a quick overview on this weeks topic. As always we are joined by our resident copresenter Michelle Gildernew. Michelle is the current mp for formana. With her own, she has served in the northern arland assembly as a former minister for agriculture and Rural Development and chairperson of the Health Committee amongst other things. Michelle has been a shinfian activist since her teens and has been elected almost continuously since 1998. And todays guest is Glenn Bradley. Glenn is a former british soldier who later became an officer in the ulster Unionist Party, participating in the talks that led to the good fredy agreement in 1998. Glenn continues to engage in very. Initiatives to advance peace, reconciliation and evolve political thinking on the island of ireland. Clim bradley, welcome to the show. Thank you. Clean, you grew up in the shankel road, not far from where were actually sitting right now. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood . First thing is a vad said, i grew up in the shankle road, granny i beat me. I grew up in the woodville road, which is the top end of the shankle. Um, i was born in 1967 into a left leaning, socialist leaning. Working class family um in a poverty stricken street, two up two down there house, tin bath on the wall, no running hot water, my inheritance of life was that i was born into a loyal irish family, what do mean by loyal irish . Mean that we looked eastwards for our sovereignty, we were the irish dimension along with welsh, english and scots that made up the british nation in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and that is the politic that i was born into a very heartly home but where politics was daily discussed largely as a consequence of the poverty that surrounded is all, poverty reined in the area, obviously being born in 1967, it was also on the cost of the civil uprising that was happening here in Northern Ireland, and while i had nothing to do with the previous 50 years of the orange state and what it happened, i certainly was born into that area of era. Violence and an actual fact until the seasfires of 1994 and 1997 i knew only violence in my life, so i grew up with daily armed violence all around me on um everyday basis, you know, our days were spent listening to bombs, listening to gun fire, arm patrols on the street, para aggression, provisional ira aggression against my community, uh, loyalist paramilitary violence against my community, single day on our streets, so what moted motivated you then glenn to join the british army, i too grew up in a very political house and politics was discussed daily as well, we also um would have understood but equality and opportunities and things like that were what we were talking about it was how we were treated compared to our neighbors a lot of the time. As far as i was concerned uh i had grown up in a community that was under physical attack by the ira, you know day and daily it was armed aggression against my community and we were being feeled by the rc, we were being feeled by the british army and in 1972 um. Age five, um, i was injured in an ira new warning car bomb, and in that Small Community that i come from, we knew lots of people who were getting injured, we knew lots of people who were were getting killed, and it really came the head for me on on the day that bobby sanns died, when when when bobby died, um, during that may period, you know, i, i was attending the belfast boys model school, and our school bus was returning. And nationalists and republicans had formed a gauntlet uh at the arding round about and they they petrol bombed our school buss and there was lots of derogatory language being showed that you know burn your hunness and so on and so forth and but for the breavery of the bus driver on the day who put his his foot to the the accelerator and actually mounted the the ardoin round about and got us to the relative safety of of woodville road you know the casualties would have been far higher but its the first day that that i remember seeing hitred in me. You know, i get off that bus and looking back up towards the round about you, my thought was, im going to kill you, im going to kill you, and i was 14 years of age, and i it it was my, i, i get to theres hundreds of thousands of other people would have joined the british army without this motivation, but my motivation as a 16yearold was quite naive. At the time, you know, i was kid who had grown up in a very closeted and and tatent community who was sectarian in in my thinking who believed that the Northern Ireland conflict was holy and solely about my community and and and getting reped by ira violence and i i felt that the only way that that violence could could be stopped was to be met by other violence and then i naively joined the british army thinking, ill get the best trinum possible and go back to north. In ireland and take the fight to the enemy, at 16, at 16, at 16 years of age, the british army is only is is one of three armies in the world that recruits children into its ranks and it is entirely legal for a 16yearolds even now today in 2023, im talking 1984, but in 20, you know, a child of age 16 can join the british army, so you the british army, i mean, what, what was the first regiment you joined, because i understand you were in various regiments, yeah, yeah, initially in listed into the parachuit regiment, but i also served with uh the royal irish rangers, first batalion, royal irish rangers and i also did special duty tours during operation banner, which would be specific to my deployments in in Northern Ireland, i did a i actually did five tours in Northern Ireland, so glenn, you said you joined the british army to get the best training, does that mean you had an urge to join . A loyallist Paramilitary Group or did you is that what you were thinking . Um, as teenager, there is no doubt that i consider joining the First Battalion of the Ulster Volunteer force, the uvf, which would be loyal Paramilitary Group, you know, i come from family that is is steeped in the tradition of the uvf, and it would have been very easy particularly with the area that i live in uh for me to join b company, but my my uncle um, he was a local politician at the time, in the progressive Unionist Party, put the vabes out to make sure that if i approached anyone, which i tried to do, that i would be declined the offer to enlist into the uvf, and uh, so yes and listening the Power Military, lords Power Military did cross my mind, uh, but it wasnt uh, available option for me, because concerned relatives. Made sure that that course of action that would only lead to death or prison wasnt available to me, you know that the army was the laser of two evils so to speak, and i was encouraged to join the british army. You joined the british army, just cut forward and a little bit, you then when you retired from the army, you joined the australia Unionist Party, for me, the the murder of my my uncle dc Louis Robinson in september. 1990 um played heavily on me you know that that was within our Technical Area of responsibility the second battal strangers were were serving as arb um and and lee was adocted in their area so there i was, you just want to tell a bit about that, my uncle was detective constable Louis Robinson of of the iuc, um, he had been fishing uh down in county carry, was coming uh back home, crossing the border, um, when the ira posing as udr soldiers abducted him, they held him for three days torturing him before. Them and executing them and that all happened within the taor of of the regiment that i was in the roll irish rangers at that time and i assisted in the search operation to try locate his body. I wouldnt have said it was a catalytic moment that made me get out of the army cuz i you know i i went to do a further four years but um there was it and then i i did a six month turn in bosnia in 1992 and i think the combat. Of both those, i was moving, i was evolving from believing that violence could satisfy things and i was moving into a reality for me where i believed that violence was futile and and i left the army uh because of that in 1994 and then so you were you joined the olster Unionist Party at that stage then you hopes for peace or what oh yeah yeah i mean but by this see ajad go on from being a naive kid who worshiped at the high altar of violence to someone who believed that dialogue, engagement, equitable equality were the only things that could resolve the political situation in Northern Ireland, so i landed back here in 1994, back to the woodviel, the area that i came from, and there was no change, there was no change from 1984 and 1984 on the. Or anything that was nothing was being addressed, it was still the usual fly or trips, a union jack over a donkey and put it up for an election and we get election, and i say no, this cant continue, so i initially again funny enough was going to join the progressive Unionist Party, but my uncle felt that because of my army service i would never be trusted, and he said, youre better off going into the uup and you probably get further. On politically than what you could, so i joined the oster Unionist Party, so my motivation at the good fredy agreement was to get a a peace accord on which we could then build to create equitable quality and address all the imbalances that in my view had made Northern Ireland down workable up up to that point, so that was my motivation in being a neils to unions party, so it was about for me, it was about growing. Truth uh Community Politic engagement and and and addressing the the the causes of conflict and the the the reasons for gross poverty in the area that i came from and you later you later became member of veterans for peace, what motivated you to to to do that . For for me it was just Natural Evolution of the journey and the path that i was on, you know, i go back and i say, you know, i was this naive. Kid who worshiped at the high alter of violence and had gone through this transition to be in this peacenick who simply felt felt that valence was futile and could achieve nothing and veterans for peace for me was my natural home where i could openly discuss who i was, the journey i had been on and but also related. To to to to be in the army amongst people who understood my language and who and who could speak to me, so for me it was just Natural Evolution to joint veterans for peace. Youre still tuned into the conversation, your weekly alternative probe of political events and Current Affairs around ireland. Im joined by our cohost Michelle Gildernew alongside our special guest Glenn Bradley who served in various resiments of the british army and is now member of veterans for peace. Was there one particular event or one . Incident that sparked that desire to go from a combattant to somebody who promoted and worked towards peace . Not that i can remember, i cant recall a singular catalytic moment, obviously the the murder of my uncle and and everything around that and my my service in bosnia, it bed heavily um on me, but there theres not a singular event that i can remember that me at me go from this rather naive kid that had worshiped at the. The high altar of violence uh to to to be in a peacenick um theres theres just nothing that is singularly correct you know i did five tours here and and as you know serving in in fermana is entirely different to serving in belfast and and and the duties of the soldier would have done at that time, but but what i did identify with them was the belligerance um of politicians of that era and it really really annoyed me because no one was addressing poverty, nobody was addressing the causes of conflict and what what what i mean by the causes of conflict is you know at that period of time. Was, i think we had um, at that stads there was probably about 16,00 republicans and 10,000 lawless that had been arrested, charged through the process and were were in long cash, and you know, something didnt happen in 1968 to suddenly make, you know, over 26,000 people wake up the next morning and go, were valent, and were going to do this, nobody was da fan, the. Causes of conflict, which in my opinion also relates to the causes of poverty because the they go handling love the galler, and i just had this desire and urge that again, coming back to what i said earlier about my children, you know, i did not want them to inheritt the socioeconomic, political basket case that i had been born into, and i felt a real duty and responsibility to address the causes of conflict and. The reason why Northern Ireland was in such poverty and not even today that remains my motivation, the only difference today as im not talking about my grandchildren, because as you know michelle, there was things agreed in the good fredy agreement, things like the bill of rights and so on that we that have never ever been addressed, because politicians, some politicians here dont want to, i agree with you, and having been elected in 1998 until the first december. I can tell you now that your your worldview is very different from the vast majority of unionist politicians that i worked with, worked in committees, looked at tackling poverty, lot of some of the unionist politicians up there had no clue about poverty, how it existed, about um how young people could end up homelessness, they just had such they were tone def to the actual problems that were facing our society, i think a lot of that is to do with politic. Unionism and what political unionism has been doing for the last 100 years from the creation of this state . You know as my grand they used to say you know up a shankle you could bring a donkey treaps a union jack over it and we get alected and thats what political unionism has been doing for hundred years you know back in 86 it was what 70 40 years ago 60 years i was talking about you know nothing has changed you know people from outside the areas are parachuted into the areas and they get elected because of flag weaving, because of things that are completely irrelevant to address in the causes of poverty, the causes of under education within the unionist community, and its an absolute disaster. And this ethos if you like carried you into business, just do you want to tell us a bit about that . Well, it wasnt, obviously i had to work, i wasnt um, you, when i joined the ells Unionist Party, it was a voluntary role, youre not paid to be a constituency chairman, youre not paid as the treasurer, um, it was about activism and it was about trying through the party to address things, so i always worked and and coming from a military background as did, hollige and supply chains were naturally where i felt at home, so um, i formed business, in partnership with guy, we were located in jamess Business Park in in finglas and we created a small. Border um hollige Distribution Company and we went very quickly uh to making decent money. Glenn, youre youre a few years older than me, but um, you we basically want the same thing, we want a future for children and grandchildren this different to our upbringing. I cant ever envisage that within a six county administration. How do you feel about how we move into the future in a way, the last 100 years as youve pointed out . Havent been good for anybody, society is broken here, i dont can it be fixed, but i dont see it ever been fixed within a six country settlement, but whats your views on that . My you know the good freddy agreement is our common denominator, michelle, its the common denominator of all the people and in this region, you know, and when the people ratified the good freddy agreement, it became our mechanism for all political discourse, within the good friend. Agreement, there is the provisions for a what people call a border pool, a referendum that the people here of their own vocation can choose to stay. And either United Kingdom or they can choose to go for something new, thats something new to me is personally more attractive than the current status quo, you know, and and and within me and my political journey, i think prebrexit, i was maybe happy to go along with things, but brexit, are versibly, irrevocably proved to. Me that this small place that we call home is of no consideration to westminster because the st because political unionism in my opinion and keeping my mind i come from that tribe has utterly field to deliver to address anything for the last 100 years. The British Government has failed to address anything in the last 100 years and i just am at that. Stage of life where im going, whats the fear from trying something new . I dont fear change, you know, my whole life has been about embracing change and evolution, so for me, you know, if the borderple was happening tomorrow, i would be voting to end the union with britain and i would be voting to create something anew here in ireland, that is for all of the people of this island, all seven point with it is two Million Office that is equal, that delivers equitable equality, that addresses poverty, that addresses social housing needs, that addresses all the issues that for the last 100 years have not been addressed in this statement. I think on that note, i want to thank you for coming in, uh, its great to have you today and its always good to see you, thanks very much, thank you, thank you, thank you, week we take a look at the history of cromland road jail. While this victoria era prison has now been transformed into a public museum, its history is one embedded in the foundations of the state, one with the hangman was always busy. Built in 1845, cromland road jail has bore witness to a fraud period of irish history. In its 150 years, children from impoverished families, political prisoners, and suffer jets were among 25,000 people incarcerated within its walls. The first 106 inmates who were forced to walk from Carrick Fergus prison in chians arrived in 1846. In a city where poverty was rife, children were often jailed for minial offenses such as saying food or clothing. 13yearold patrick macay, who had been sentenced to three months in prison, hanged himself in his sale in 1858, that same year. A law was introduced forbidding children under the age of 14 to be sent to adult prison. Women inmates were capt in the prison blockhouse until the early 1900s. Suffered atts among them, Dorothy Evans and were imprisoned in the jail during 1914. Before the gallos was built in 1901, executions were carried out in full public view. An Execution Chamber was then constructed within the prison walls and used until the last of the hang. In 1961. 17 prisoners were executed in the prison, the last being robert mclatery, who was hanged in 1961 for the murder of pearl gamble. The bodies of the executed were buried inside the prison and on consecrated ground against the back wall beside the prison hospital. The execution of tom williams, a 19yearold member of the ira took place on the 2nd of september, 1942. He was hanged for the killing of an ruc officer. The hangman in charge was thomas pierpoint, the deals most regular hangman, who carried out six executions in the deal between 1928 and 1942. After a Long Campaign by friends and comrades of williams, he was disintered and buried in Milltown Cemetery in the year 2000. Despite being known as europes alcatras, there were number of successful escape attempts at the jail. The first recorded escape was in 1866. In may 9. 1941, five irish republican prisoners made their escape over the walls of freedom. During its 150year history, the jail had many prisoners passed through its doors. Some of the more wellknown prisoners included former arish tishack, aimon devonura, former deputy first minister, martin mc guinness, and the hunger striker bobby sanns. On the 24th of november 1991, during the last siages of the conflict, the loyalist wing of the prison became the. Target of a provisional ira bomb that killed a uvf and uda prisoner. A rocket attack by loyalists on the deal in the early 90s was also close to killing number of republicans. In 1996, the jail closed its doors for the last time where is now used as a museum, becoming major tourist attraction for the Many International visitors to post conflict belfast. And that does it for another week. Wed love for you to join the conversation by sharing the link to todays program to help us grow our audience across all our social media platforms. Id like to thank our special guest Glenn Bradley and my cohost michelle gildernu. In the meantime, the conversation will be back next week with more and. Investigations and analysis. Im sean murray, bye for now. In the past eight years alone, the United NationsGeneral Assembly has approved 140 resolutions criticizing the zionist entity, and the worlds last apartide regime. Was censured once again at the General Assembly last month. What tends to happen is they point someones independent and who of course and finds out whats happening in israel and designity and it discovers surprise surprise theres ethnic cleansing and theres appalling Human Rights Violations and of course they report that and the designers throw up their hands in horror, clutch their pearls and they say oh these people are antisemites. These these ngos were playing for an audience of one washington potentially and washington. And would then relay the talking points uh of the un watch, so we were under constant pressure. First of your headlines the hamas resistance movements says his fighters have captured more israeli troops and have taken them to the ghaza strip as operation alasa flood continues. The leader of the islamic gihad says palestinian fighters humiliated. Israel in their ongoing operation and the only way for the regime to cut its losses is to admit defeat. Also the headlines Major International airlines cancelled dozens of flights to tel aviv as Palestinian Resistance factions antiisraeli operation rages on