Transcripts For MSNBC Velshi 20241006

We love you, ali. Can i just say, ali is looking good. The suit, he has got brunch money. Just for the job you want, michael. [ laughter ] you guys have a great afternoon. Velshi starts now. Good morning, it is saturday, october 5th, 31 days until election day. With both underway in several states and both campaigns ramping up their efforts as we enter this final highstakes push until november 5th. Vice president Kamala Harris expected to travel to North Carolina Today to survey the damage caused by hurricane helene, while Donald Trump, alongside the Tech Billionaire Elon musk will be in butler, pennsylvania, returning to the site for the first time since the Assassination Attempt against him in july. Meanwhile, Senator Bernie Sanders and the United Auto Workers Shawn Fain are Rallying Union members this morning. We will be talking with Shawn Fain later in the show. The month before election day, the states could not be higher. Republican plans from project 2045 and agenda 47 to drastically alter the structure of the federal government and reshape the levers of power around the man who tried to overturn the last election, and who has pledged retribution against his political enemies present a clear and present danger. For Donald Trump, this week was a stark reminder that, though he has been granted Aid And Reprieve again and again, he has not yet fully escaped legal accountability. Special Counsel Jack smiths latest Court Filing is a dual purpose at this point in the Election Cycle and signals what is at stake for trump himself, a sign that his legal troubles are not over. For the rest of us, it is a flashing red light, warning us of what Donald Trump and his acolytes are capable of in the face of electoral defeat. Judge Tonya Chuck and unsealed the filing wednesday, revealing the most comprehensive picture yet of trumps desperate attempts to cling to power at all costs after he lost the last election. One of the most damning revelations is trumps alleged response after learning that his Vice President s safety was at risk at the capitol, he said, so what. Jack smith uses this incident in much of the evidence he presents to make the case that trump was not acting in his official capacity when he schemed to overturn the Election Results in 2020. A President Acting in his official capacity would presumably care about the safety of his Vice President. But put a oin in that and we will return to it in a moment. Less than 24 hours after the release of this damning motion, Liz Cheney, daughter of conservative icon dick cheney, joined Vice President Kamala Harris at a Campaign Rally thursday in ribbing, wisconsin, the birthplace of the republican party. This unlikely duo warned of the threat Donald Trump proposes to democracy should he return to power. I know the most conservative of conservative values is fidelity to our constitution. I tell you, i have never voted for a democrat, but this year, i am proudly casting my vote for Vice President Kamala Harris. What January 6th shows us is that there is not an ounce, not an ounce of compassion in Donald Trump. He is petty, he is vindictive, and he is cruel. And Donald Trump is not fit to lead this good and great nation. That same day, Donald Trump was in saginaw, michigan, where he continued to peddle lies about the 2020 election, along with his almost daily here mongering of immigrants. What is new in Jack Smiths latest filing . Smiths latest account of January 5th provides striking new details about Trumps State of mind in the lead up to January 6th. It counts widely criticized the ruling in july, which vastly expanded president ial immunity. Smith is pulling out all the stops this time to convince the courts that the case against trump should proceed, despite the conservative led Supreme Courts new immunity test. Jack smiths main goal is to show that trumps actions, as he tried to overturn the Election Results, or the actions of a private person, not those of a president , carrying out official duties. Importantly, draws a critical distinction between whether trump was acting as president or as a political candidate. The Motion Points to new testimony from a secret Service Agent who said, trumps Security Detail January 6th quote, was not getting information about the rally from their counterparts at the White House staff, because this was not a staffdriven event, this was a campaign driven event, end quote. The practice of excluding official White House advisors and relying instead on private or campaign lawyers when pressuring Mike Pence to overturn the account. According to the filing quote, it is hard to imagine stronger evidence that conduct is private that than when the president exclude his white House Counsel and only wishes to have his private counsel present. The filing also presents communication, showing that trump knew he had lost the election, and yet, continued spreading lies about Election Subversion. Among the most damning evidence used to show trump had no intention of respecting the Election Outcome is a white House Staffer who overtook her trump telling family members, quote, does not matter if you won or lost the election, you still have to fight like hell. One of the most talked shocking revelations describes an incident involving a batch of votes that heavily centered around joe biden. A Trump Campaign Employee urged him to find a reason, to dispute the legitimacy of those votes. When a colleague warned that it could trigger civil unrest in the Trump Employee responded with, make them right. Lets zoom out for a second. By now, we all have fatigue from keeping up with trumps many indictments, is when hearings and cases. We are fatigued from his nonstop fear mongering, fatigue from a republican Party Bent on dividing this nation. This latest unsealed ocean may not register much after all we have been enduring the past year, but its gravity should not be understated. This is an historic document. Jack smith take particular care in the latest filing to sort out official acts from unofficial acts, making the Capital Case that Election Subversion is not a Core Function of the Executive Branch or a presidency. It is simply legal jargon for, trump knew he was peddling a lot and manipulating his base as pawns in a larger scheme to overturn the Election Results. He knew he was risking the safety of his Vice President January 6 when he tweeted that paint like courage for refusing to participate in his game. He knew what he was doing for weeks when he egged on his supporters to gather at the capitol, despite being told repeatedly by advisors, attorneys, and they told officials that there was no proof of election fraud. Trump knew he lost. He simply didnt care. Plotting to overturn Election Results, according to smith, cannot reasonably be considered an official act of the executive office. Surely, that is not what framers had in mind when they created the office of the presidency. At its core,s indictment seeks to present that trump is not above the law, no president should be, or as puts it, trump must stand trial for his private crimes, as with any other citizen. His trial will likely not see the light of day, if trump is reelected, or if it reaches the same Supreme Court that gutted smiths previous indictment. The conduct laid out in this motion could easily be ripped from todays headlines. Smiths latest filing is not just about a specific moment in time. It is a glimpse, a warning of what is to come. Trump has shown no signs of abandoning his Big Lie about the 2020 election, and sewing the same chaos of the upcoming election. His catalog sort our democracy, democratic institution, and americans endangered by his words, including his own followers, remains essentially, so what . And that is why Jack Smiths dogged pursuit of justice against an unrepentant demagogue will go down in history as one of the greatest differences of our democracy. But we are all a part of this historic effort. And as americans cast their votes over the next few weeks we will all be participating in the largest and most critical effort yet to safeguard our democracy from the existential threat that is Donald Trump. For more on this, i am joined by jennifer rubin, an msnbc political Analyst And Opinion writer at the washington post. She is the host of greenroom podcast, the author of resistance, how women think democracy from Donald Trump. Joining her is michael stoneman. He is a fellow at Stanford Laws Constitution Law Center and coauthor of how to spill a president ial election. Good morning to both of you for being here. Matthew, j. D. Vance has repeatedly stated, had he been Vice President January 6th, he would have intervened in the electoral count. In your latest New York Times piece, you say, his insistence is basically a promise about what he might do on January 6, 2025 if he is presiding over the account as Vice President. Tell me what this says about j. D. Vance and his fitness for office in the shadow of Donald Trump and the discussion about his fitness for office. I think it is completely disqualifying for j. D. Vance to promise to abuse the constitutional powers of the office he is asking the american people to give him, to elect him to. He said on january 26 2021, he would have taken extraconstitutional steps to ensure that Donald Trump returned to the White House. Donald trump will be term limited, notwithstanding his sometimes flirtations with suggesting he serve a third term. That is constitutionally forbidden. The republican nominee in 2028 is presumptively j. D. Vance. J. D. Vance is elected to the Vice Presidency this year, he will preside over the electoral count January 6th 2029. He is telling us today, you will abuse those powers to ensure that he is in to the presidency from the Vice Presidency. There is no more blatant assault on the rule of Law And Democracy in america than that. Jennifer, given these latest revelations, do you see any sense of a growing willingness among moderate republicans to reject Donald Trump with voices like Liz Cheney endorsing president harris, more and more of the people saying, this is just a fitness issue, not a policy or ideological issue . I would hope so. I do think that the indictment and revised indictment, and the brief really put a lot of on the bones. We thought we had a lot of information from the january, but it is as if January 6 to put the skeleton, and this is the hair, the entire body on the crime. I would hope it acts as a wake up call. Frankly, it may be Liz Cheney that finally pushes republicans to say, you know what, it is not good enough to sit on the sidelines, it is not good enough to say, i am not going to vote for either one of them. This guy is an existential threat to american democracy. Look at what he did. Look at his behavior. If you really care about democracy, you only have one choice. I thought it was magnificent and compelling. The fact that it came a day after Jack Smith released his brief, i thought was sort of a onetwo punch. If republicans want to throw the constitution out the window, find, then they can vote to trump. Dont tell yourself that you love the constitution, you love the rule of Law And Vote for anyone other than Kamala Harris. Matt, special Counsel Jack smith relies on previous cases to create a workable definition of president ial immunity, because the Supreme Court did not provide one it self. What you think of this approach . On one level, most people with a third Grade Education would say, what the Supreme Court that it is unworkable and does not make sense. Jack smith has to work within the confines of what they did. Do you think what he has done will hold up at the Supreme Court . You ultimately, i think it will that is one of the tragedies unfolding with this legal case. We know from the outside, from january 2021, this was a plot by a political candidate to try to gain an office he had no legal right to. He executed that plot through private lawyers, not using the levers of power of government. It was obvious all along that this was predominantly, if not exclusively on official conduct that was used to meet this criminal conspiracy. Now, years later, we are presented with a legal brief that eckstein explains exceptional Detail Action always how that plot was executed, using only private conduct. What has happened here is we see, in a way, the relevancy being revealed to the Supreme Court. We went to the Supreme Court, in delayed the case almost a year, just to show us what we already knew, which is that this conduct is not immune because it is not president ial conduct. Things to both of you. I appreciate your Analysis And Opinion on this. The author of resistance, how women save democracy from Donald Trump. Coauthor of how to steal a president ial election. Still to come, Donald Trump, date j. D. Vance, and antiabortion rights are getting more creative with the lies they tell. We will explain what they really mean when they say, we would not support a federal Abortion Ban. As former president Donald Trump battle local union support, in a few moments, Senator Bernie Sanders and the United Auto Workers will rally for the Harris Campaign in lauren michigan. Right after that event, Shawn Fain will join us to discuss what the Labor Sector needs from the next president. [child laughing] [child giggling with delight] ooooh. Ooooh. Ooooh. Ooooh. Come on, you two. Dinner time. Ooooh. Ooooh. Baby. Ooooh. Ooooh. Only Purples Gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. No other mattress cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. Baby. Memory foam doesnt come close. Get your best sleep guaranteed. Buy more, save more. Up to 600 off. Visit purple. Com or a store near you. As israel continues its ongoing war in Gaza And Offensive against hezbollah in lebanon, we continue to await Israels Response to irans recent missile attacks, in response to the killing of hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah in strikes near beirut. Among potential targets, rons nuclear facilities. Back in april, following an iranian Drone Attack me which also came in response to israels killings in iran, israel conducted strikes near, but importantly, not directly on one of irans nuclear facilities. President biden says, the u. S. , which heavily supported Israels Defense against that recent iranian attack, would not support an attack on iranian nuclear sites. Of course, our former president , Donald Trump, withdrew the united states from the iran nuclear deal, despite also certifying that iran was in compliance with that deal, which, among other things, led directly to iran significantly wrapping up its enrichment of uranium. Last night, trump explained how he would deal with the situation if he were president again, while criticizing bidens approach. They asked him, what do you think about iran . With you hit around . He goes, as long as they dont hit the nuclear stuff. That is the thing you want to hit, right . I said, i think he has got that one wrong. Isnt that what you are supposed to hit . It is the biggest risk we have, nuclear weapons, the power of nuclear weapons, the power of weaponry. I rebuilt the entire military, jets, including nuclear. I hated to build the nuclear, but i got to know firsthand the power of that stuff. When they asked him that question, the answer should have been, hit the nuclear first, worry about the rest later. A lot of nonsense in there. Coming up, we will talk with Matt Bradley in beirut or the latest on the actual situation in a minute. We will recall the latest abortion lies being called by Donald Trump and j. D. Vance. Vance. So i use nervive. Nervives clinical dose of ala reduces Nerve Discomfort in as little as seven days. Now i can help again feel the difference with nervive. My name is brayden. I was five years old when i came to st. Jude. Ill try and shorten down the story. So ive been having these headaches that wouldnt go away. My mom, she was just crying. What they said, your son has brain cancer. It was your worst fear coming to life. Watching your child grow up is the dream of every parent. You can join the battle to save the lives of kids like brayden, by supporting st. Jude childrens research hospital. Families never receive a bill from st. Jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food, so they can focus on helping their child live. What they have done for me, my son, my family im sorry, yeah. Life is a gift, especially for a child battling cancer. Call or Go Online and help save another lives of children like brayden. Now, im 11 years old. We were actually doing the checkup for my brain. And they saw something in my throat. Its thyroid cancer. It was heartbreaking to find out that he has cancer again. But we knew who we had behind us. It just gives me hope. You can make a difference. Join with your Credit Or Debit card for only 19 a month. And well send you this st. Jude tshirt. Without st. Jude or its donors, we would have been in a bad place. These kids, theyve done Nothing Wrong in the world. Finding a cure for Childhood Cancer, it means everything. Help st. Jude give kids with cancer a chance. [audio logo] with bugs, the struggle is real. Thats why you need zevo traps. Zevo attracts and traps bugs 24 7 using a blue and Uv Light with no odor and no mess for effortless protection. Zevo. Peoplefriendly. Bugdeadly. Citis industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries. And help a partner like the World Food Programme as they provide more than food to people in need. Together, citi and the World Food Programme empower families across the globe. Abortion is healthcare. We have been talking every week on the show about the consequences of handing it. Recently told the stories of two women, two mothers, whose deaths under Georgias Crony and sixweek Abortion Ban were being preventable by State Health experts. And blamed on the Abortion Ban. Candy miller was one of those women. Miller was the Wife And Mother of three children. She had been diagnosed with lupus, diabetes, and hypertension here doctors warned her, because of her health, having another baby could kill her. In november 2022, miller unexpectedly got pregnant and because a strict Abortion Ban had already taken effect in georgia, she was scared that even talking to a doctor about the possibility of getting an abortion could be a incriminating. So, miller obtained abortion pills on her own at home. She took them at home alone and her body was and able to expel the tissue of the fetus. She remained afraid to seek medical health, though she tried to manage the pain on her own and eventually died at home in bed with her 3yearold daughter by her side. A State Committee of Maternal Health Experts reviewed her case and deemed to her death preventable. A member of that committee told pro public a quote, the fact that miller felt she had to make decisions, that she didnt have adequate choices here in georgia, we felt that definitely in her case. She is absolutely rest on the to this legislation. The vast majority of antiabortion republicans will tell you, they support so called exceptions to their Abortion Ban, laws that would allow abortion for Rape And Insert survivors, or to save womens lives. But womens lives are not being saved, because exceptions to Abortion Bans are a lie. Anyone that has been paying the bit of attention in the last two years since roe v. Wade was overturned knows that these exceptions are a lie. You know that the exceptions are deliberately vague, and as a result, doctors are not performing Emergency Abortions when they are needed. They are forced to wait until a patient is close enough to dying that any of those patients will walk away with irreversible, life altering consequences. And some, like candy miller, do not walk away at all. This week, Fulton County superior judge, Robert Mcburney struck down georgias sixweek Abortion Ban. In his opinion he wrote quote, it is not for a legislator, judge, or a commander from the Handmaids Tale Quote to tell these women what to do during this period when a fetus cannot survive outside the womb even more so that society could or should force them to serve as a human that she Tissue Bank or to give up the body for another human, and quote. For now, that means abortion is illegal now in the state of georgia to the point of fetal availability. They are already appealing this ruling, working to reinstate his deadly Abortion Ban. It is hard to imagine taking such an indefensible position in the face of dead mothers, but that is what they are doing. We should expect the same deliberate cruelty and antiabortion policy to be carried to the federal level if Donald Trump is elected again. This is important because trump and his Running Mate know that Abortion Bans are deeply unpopular. They know that Abortion Bans are deadly, and instead of changing their position, they come up with a new and creative way to lie about it. They may actually be working. This week, you may have seen headlines echoing trumps claims that he quote, would not support a federal Abortion Ban under any circumstances and would in Fact Veto it. That is a lie. It has been a surprisingly effective life, because two it is a lie, you need to know that republicans in the Antiabortion Movement are now lying about the definition of Abortion Ban. Since roe v. Wade was overturned, abortions have fallen out of favor, even among many republican voters, as we have seen this gruesome parade of headlines, telling worries of women denied and delayed healthcare. Conservatives responsible for ushering in this Post Roe Dystopia our report rebranding Abortion Bans, calling it instead, quote, minimal national standard. What is a minimum, national standard . It is a federal ban on abortion after a certain number of weeks. Any Abortion Ban by any other name is still an Abortion Ban. Calling it a minimal national standard allows politicians to pretend that they dont support a federal Abortion Ban. Listen to how j. D. Vance pulled out this light into thes Vice President ial debate. In the past, you have supported a federal ban on abortion after 15 weeks. My question is, why have you changed your position . First of all, i never supported a national ban. I did, when i was running for senate in 2022, talk about setting a national standard. Make a national ban and a minimal national standard is the same thing. Minimal national standard, vance admits to supporting in that very same clip, is that 15 Week Ban that the moderator, norah odonnell, cited her question. Republicans will pass a federal Abortion Ban if given the chance. The fact that they are taking such pain to disguise their intent tells you how unpopular and dangerous Abortion Bans actually are. Joining me now, jessica, a journalist documenting the changes happening in America Post jobs on her Sub Stack Abortion every day. She is also the author of the essential brandnew book, abortion our bodies, their lives, and The Truth we use to win. Jessica, thank you for being with us. As i have mentioned, antiabortion groups have switched up the meaning of words and terms without telling the rest of us. Tell us how these groups are weapon i think language to their advantage right now. I am glad we are talking about this, because i dont think enough americans understand what they are doing and it is so incredibly important. As you said, they are using ban and the national minimum vendor, or federal restrictions interchangeably. But the way they are getting away with that is by redefining the word, ban. Their claim is that Abortion Ban only refers to a total prohibition on abortion, without exceptions, even for womens lives. Under that definition, america has no Abortion Bans. Texas, tennessee they dont have abortion because there is an option supposedly for womens lives. And it is such an incredible life, because as you said, the Abortion Bans republicans are proposing are these 15 Week And Ban that have exceptions. Because they have those exceptions in them, republicans can sort of do this rhetorical dance and say, that is not a ban, that is a federal restriction. Because Vultures Voters dont know that, they are getting a skewed view of what these politicians, what these republicans actually think about abortion. We note that exceptions dont work. We have been reporting on this every single week, you have literally been reporting on it every single day. There are simply barriers to care. In your book you wrote, The Truth is, when republicans sit down to write exceptions, they do so with the sole intent of excluding as many people as possible. I spoke a little about why exceptions for the life of the woman dont work. Tell us more about the other most common exceptions, those for Rape And Incest , and why they too dont actually work in practice. Sure. As you said, these are specifically designed not to work. That is the entire point of them. For Rape And Incest, lets take a state like mississippi. Mississippi supposedly has an exception for Rape Victims. But there is not one doctor in mississippi was willing to give a Rape Victim an abortion because the consequences for performing an abortion are so high. That is not really an accessible exception. The other thing they do, they write exceptions specifically tailored to Rape And Incest. What we know about Rape Victims . Most people know that Rape Victims do not report to the police. When republicans get to the room to write a rape exception, they say, we will mandate they have to report to police, mandate they have to bring a Police Report or some sort of evidence to prove that they were really raped. They are writing these exceptions to make sure that Rape Victims cannot use them and the cruelty of that is just astounding. The chapter in your book called the punishment is the point in which you write about to criticize abortion. For years, antiabortion groups have claimed they have no interest in seeing women arrested for abortion and for just as long women have been targeted anyway, even before roe was overturned, women were being arrested and prosecuted for abortion, miscarriage, stillbirth, and more. This helps in the case of kenny miller, The One in georgia too afraid to seek medical care after experiencing an incomplete abortion at home. She ended up dying at home in her bed. Her family told propublica she was under the impression she could be arrested for having an abortion. Sounds like that is not an unreasonable fear. It is not an unreasonable fear. If you look at someone like Britney Watts in ohio was arrested for abuse of a corpse for flushing her miscarriage. There was a case recently out of south carolina, where a woman was arrested for murder, because she lost her pregnancy, and she was walking around at home with an Ankle Bracelet on. You are talking about people who have gone through traumatic pregnancy losses being criminalized. And of course, the people they are targeting are overwhelmingly marginalized, or overwhelmingly poor women, women of color, black women in particular. They do that because they think No One will care. They think that if they go after the most vulnerable among us, that most american voters will not care. This business about Abortion Bans with exceptions, given that they are essentially defective, almost total Abortion Bans is that the endgame for the Antiabortion Movement . They never actually have to say, these are full Abortion Bans, they are just restricted abortions. Really, the endgame is full Abortion Bans, no exceptions if you actually talk to the leaders of the Antiabortion Movement, you talk to the groups who are behind these policies. They will admit that, if you sort of get to the heart of it with them. If you look at a group like susan b. Anthony pro life america, they were in tennessee after roe was overturned, trying to convince tennessee legislators not to add an exception for womens lives into the law. That is how badly they want there to be zero exceptions. The important thing to remember is that, the endgame is not even just Abortion Bans, it is the end of birth control, restrictions on womens rights to travel, to leave the state for Abortion Care in prochoice states. This is very much about trapping women, erasing them from the public sphere, trapping them in the private sphere, ensuring they are forever pregnant, and really reinforcing those traditional Gender Norms and binaries that they are so obsessed with. Jessica, good to have you here. Thank you for joining us this morning. Jessica valenti, author of the new book , abortion our bodies, their lives, and The Truths we used to win. Still to come, we have been pulling out the curtain on Project 2025 every single show, bring it on each Radical Change to restructure the federal government. One team hidden In Plain Sight throughout the entire document is a plan to consolidate power under the Executive Branch. The federal government that answers only to the president , and a president that answers to No One. The scary thing is, two recent Supreme Court decisions make that possible. Ke that pos woman you can get it when you trade in any phone. man whoa, whoa, whoa vo at verizon new and existing customers can get iphone 16 pro on us. When you trade in any phone in any condition. Only on verizon. Camilla tried the new scent of gain Relax Flings and it changed everything. hey dave, dont knock it til you smell it. New gain Relax Flings. When did i call leaffilter . When i saw my gutters overflowing onto my porch. Leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so, you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. Its the easiest call you can make. Call 833. Leaf. Filter today, or visit leaffilter. Com. What is braver than sharing your own the story with the world . This Weeks Episode of the Velshi Band Book Club Podcast will explore two books. While these two memoirs are windows into two very different worlds, they are both Master Classes in the ageold tradition of storytelling as a warning, a lesson, and a means to understand ones self. Scan that Qr Code on your screen right now and download and listen. If you can believe it, we are already five episodes into season two of the Velshi Band book called club podcast. New episodes drop every thursday, but you can get early access by subscribing to Msnbc Premium on apple podcast. It does not matter what you look like, what you are wearing me or even if you are wearing the same thing you were yesterday. What matters is who you are on the inside. We like to say, read is resistance on the Velshi Band book club, but we also like to say, dont judge a book by its cover. Cover. And the flavor you love. So, heres to now. Now available Boost Max Lakesha Childhood Cancer is its a long road. Its hard. But st. Jude has gotten us through it. St. Jude is hope that you have a chance at life. And it goes such a long way for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world. Its awesome. [music playing] i have an article two, where i have the right to do whatever i want as president , but i dont even talk about that. That is president Donald Trump in july of 2019, offering his Take On The Constitution Liminal on the presidency. His take is that limits dont exist. The Supreme Court handed down its ruling on trump be. The united states, and they sided with Donald Trump. Presidents were deemed immune from prosecution for criminal acts, a term the court chose not to define. They were in lockstep with one another, but out of step with two centuries of constitutional presidency. As Justice Sotomayor wrote in her dissent, quote, the relationship between the president and the people he serves have shifted irrevocably. In every use of the official power, the president is now taking above the law. According to Project 2025, the conservative playbook for a second trump presidency, the president should be aching with every lever of government serving him alone. Project 20 25,002 the federal workforce and replace it with trump loyalists. Because all sorts of policy laid out would be impossible to implement without loyalty to a president and administration, not a constitution, across the government. Especially because some of its plans also radical, pesky things like expertise would simply get in the way of implementing them. On page 21, Project 2025 says quote, the next administration must not see such authority to nonpartisan experts, and quote. Project 2025 plans on achieving that goal by removing protections for thousands of career civil servant, often experts in their field, and replacing them with lyrical loyal appointees who answer only to the president. Picture, Hypothetically Speaking , a scientist who studies the effects of chemicals in our water being replaced with someone who has no scientific background, but a solid Track Record of supporting trumps ideas. Across the 900 pages of Project 2025, this strategy has spoken in code. On page 552, for example, they suggest quote, the director of the fbi must remain politically accountable to the president. Politically accountable is code for obedient. That is what we want, an fbi that works at the whims of the president , arresting political opponent, prosecutors, medics, even judges who do not do his bidding. Remember, one of trumps first big scandals as president was firing at Vi Director James Comey for not publicly saying trump was under investigation in the russia probe. Political appointees, Project 2025 quote our guys. That would leave trump unchecked if enabled to after his perceived enemies which he has promised to do time and time again on the campaign trail. Political appointees, a. K. A. Trumps would be going, are mentioned in this 922 Page Book 99 times. In the chapter on Homeland Security on page 136, Project 2025 suggest that when a Leadership Role is vacated and the next person in line is a career civil servant, they should be passed up in favor of a political appointee. On page 45, when discussing the kind of person who should run the office of budget and management, Project 2025 price quote, no director should be chosen is not aggressive in wielding the tool on behalf of the president s agenda, or who is unable to defend the power against attacks from congress, and end quote. Attacks from congress should be the telltale sign here that No One involved in Project 2025 has any interest in a government of checks and balances. Congress is a coequal branch of government, according to our constitution. According to Project 2025, congress should book off too. In the chapter on the state department, it is put more bluntly. Page 173 says quote, the main suggestion here is that as many Political Appointees as possible should be in place at the start of a new administration. Transforming our federal govern of qualified experts to unblinking yesmen would mean serious breakdowns in our Governments Ability to serve. For example, when americans need crucial aid from federal agencies, the Dip Difference between edible service and Political Appointees shows. Just days ago, a formal Policy Directive on a national Security Council during the Trumps Presidency revealed that trump initially refused to approve Disaster Aid for california during its deadly 2018 wildfires. The official told e and e news, we went as far as showing him these are people who voted for you. Trump wound up reversing his decision. The playbook makes four promises for the next conservative presidency, number two being to quote, dismantled the administrative State And Return selfgovernance to the american people, end quote. The architects of Project 2025 were overjoyed when the Supreme Court assisted them in this effort too, by overturning the 40yearold President of the chevron doctrine, which allowed federal agencies brought ability to interpret and enforce regulations. With the administrative state left weaker than it has been in four decades, the time is right for the broad, structural changes that Project 2025 is seeking. In concert with the supreme Court Summer decisions, Project 2025 seeks to create a federal government that answers only to the president , and a president who answers to No One. One. Care is being stolen from us. Planned parenthood believes everyone deserves health care. Its a human right. Future generations are beginning to lose the rights we fought for. The rights for ourselves, our kids, and our grandkids. Gone. Just like that. I cant believe this is the world we live in, where were losing the freedom to control our own bodies. Last year, politicians in 47 states introduced bills that would block people from getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. Where does it end . Planned parenthood fights for you every day. But we need your support now more than ever. Visit this website, call, or scan the code on your screen, with your 19 monthly gift. Help us win the fight for the constitutional right to control our own bodies. Truly if Planned Parenthood had not stepped in, i would not be here today. They saved my life. Your support is urgent. Our rights and the rights of future generations are at risk. And lives are at risk. And thats why we have to keep fighting. In every state, everywhere. Donate 19 a month, or whatever you can afford. And youll help us fight against laws that block care, and take away our rights. We fight to make sure Everyone And Anyone can get the care they need. But we need your help. And theres never been a more urgent time to join. So Go Online, call, or scan this code now. Sign up with your monthly gift today, and well send you this care. No matter what tshirt. It is your right to have safe health care. Thats it. We wont give up, and we wont back down. We need you now more than ever. Go online, call, or scan right now. Before the break, i told you about how Project 2025s plans to expand the power of the president , combined with the president ial immunity decision, could result in a truly unchecked trump administration. For more, i am joined by kim whaley, former professor of law at the university of ottawa, and author of quote, Pardon Power how the Law System works. Take you for joining us. We parse Project 2025, we go topic by topic. This is a Thing Sort of all over it in combination with the Supreme Court, basically saying, all sorts of things are official acts and the president is not accounted for. This is not about abortion, not about the environment, it is specifically about the fact that the president can do a lot more than a constrained president , as designed by the framers can do. Right. You mentioned justice on my door saying, the court converted the presidency into that of a king. I think it is probably accurate. When you think about a king, ali, and common law, england, it is like a triangle and the power comes from the divine to the king and the king can do whatever the king wants. The american revolutionaries fought a war to flip the triangle, to invert the triangle. The people are in charge and the power trickles down. Donald trumps segment in 2019 that he, under article two, could do whatever he wants is just not true. Every branch gets their papers checked by the other two branches. Weve seen this if you have seen the hamilton musical. The Supreme Court, in giving the president the power to commit crimes using the official office of power. If he pulls out his handgun, his personal handgun, maybe he can be prosecuted. If he loses Seal Team six, then somehow, that is immune from any review. It is that kind of power. It is the official power that has the possibility of really limiting peoples liberties. That is the stuff we should really worry about, and the courts just took the rug right out from underneath the american people on that. I want to discuss Project 2025s very overt discussion about politicizing the federal work force. They are talking about firing 50,000 people possibly, and hiring on the basis of what is essentially a Loyalty Pledge to the presidency, not to the constitution, which is what every federal employee Pledges Loyalty to at the moment. What is the effect of a politicized federal workforce . We have seen examples around the world where it just does not work. If your fealty is to a Party Or President , or prime minister, that is not the same as a fealty to your country. I think it is two cases. A lot of people, when listening to this conversation wonder, how will this affect me . You can google the employment application, Loyalty Test for being in a trump administration, it is quite terrifying. In addition, propublica just published on how therefore your request is being done, freedom of information act, these agencies to weed out the people that are not loyal. This will affect regular workers. The second piece is to indicate, the idea behind the agencies is that they are experts. The really want a politician deciding how to distort of tony him from a Nuclear Reactor . You know, you want a scientist doing that. This gets beyond just science. Think about the federal communications commissions. They issue licenses for brought bart broadcast journalism. The what the politicians deciding who does not get licenses, who gets punished for their speech through that process . You it is very damaging and will impact every single american, which is frankly why the framers said, no more kings. If they believed we just did not have to worry about it, they would not have gone through the hassle of having a revolution and creating a constitution in 1787 in philadelphia. More details from Jack Smiths case this week for me not directly tied to Project 2025, but knowing those details, how much damage could be done if the entire government serves the president , as opposed to the Country And Constitution . Again, it is that idea of unlimited power. The notion that not only did the Supreme Court say to me you could use your military power, fbi, cia, the irs to investigate, spyware, all of that can be used now to commit crimes. To commit crimes. The Supreme Court acknowledged, that is what they are green lighting. Also, the court said, you cannot use that evidence of the official acts in prosecution. This could be, not only widespread crimes, but we would not even know about it, ali. It would be against that triangle. The haves and havenots, winners and losers based on arbitrary criteria, not fairness. As much as it is impossible to achieve complete equality, the idea behind the constitution is that there are processes to ensure it is not arbitrary winners and losers placed based on political loyalty. My deepest concern is that americans will feel chilled. They will feel chilled in who they talk to me who they associate with, what they post On Social media, that there will be retaliation. When we cant speak, ali, we cant think freely. That is when we really lose humanity. Everything is on the line in november. Kim good to talk to you as always. Thank you for joining us. Kim whaley, university of baltimore school of law professor, author of Pardon Power and we have still got another hour of velshi