Transcripts For MSNBC Dateline 20241006

You learn about the argument with the boyfriend. This is a guy trying to build an alibi. Thing still at it. You didnt think it was someOne Close to her . It answers. Someone that could do this could hurt other people. I just knew he was in the house. 901. What city . November, 2003. Two women were barricaded inside of their Bathroom And Las cruces, New Mexico. And desperately calling 911. Whats your emergency . Someone is by the house. Whats your name . Reporter theyd seen the intruder before. Watching them. Lurking. Waiting. Now he was inside of the apartment. They shared his College Roommates. You will want to remember this 911 call. Because, although No One knew it at the time, what happened to those terrified women on that night held the key to solving a murder. It was a mystery that went on for years. And Spend Hundreds of miles. But it began just a few weeks before that frantic call. And just a few miles away. Thats where our story begins. Soon a Sheriffs Investigator was interviewing them at the scene. A body appeared to have been there for several hours. I kind of get the feeling it would have been quite possible for the want to find it for months. If they were out target practicing it would have been a while. Reporter back then Robert Jones was a captain with the county Sheriffs Department. He took me to where the body was found. Age of his Power And Stuff like that, but it was definitely a message. Josh mankiewicz and her killer had attempted to burn her corpse. He did. He poured some kind of liquid on her more on her Shoulder Area and on her back and then lit it On Fire. Josh mankiewicz that attempt to hide or destroy evidence failed. Instead, the killer or killers left behind a partially nude body, scraped and badly burned. The woman appeared to be in her 20s. Dark, Shoulder Length Hair, big, blue eyes, and no id. Robert jones there was a Tire Track there that we got some good photographs off of that we could use for comparison purposes. Josh mankiewicz and youre reasonably sure that, that belonged to the killers vehicle. Robert jones yeah, we were almost 100 sure. It was the only track that was backed up right to the body. It had to be the vehicle. Josh mankiewicz to cops, the scene suggested shed been killed somewhere else and then brought to this area near an old landfill. So where was that original Crime Scene . And more importantly, who was she . Around 3 00 pm, about four hours after the body was found, the Phone Rang at the Las Cruces police department. A woman was reporting her College Roommate missing. Shed last been seen at a House Party with her boyfriend. Mark myers we would get several missing person cases a month. Josh mankiewicz Mark Myers was a detective with the Las Cruces pd. Mark myers i think what was concerning about this one was the close proximity to her house to where the party was. Josh mankiewicz more troubling was that the woman had left her car at the party and didnt take any of her personal belongings with her. She didnt have any means. Her purse, her keys, everything was left at the party. And shes just off the map. Mark myers she should have been home. And so when her roommates got home and she wasnt there, they were really concerned. Josh Mankiewicz Police already knew a body had been found in the desert earlier that day. Officers responded to the home of the caller. A woman named Tracy Waters. The first officer there had asked me for a photo of her. So i had gone and grabbed a photo off my Bulletin Board and given that to them. Josh Mankiewicz Police left with a photo of a 22yearold woman. She had dark, Shoulder Length Hair and big, blue eyes. Coming up, would that photo solve the mystery . Who was that woman in the desert . I screamed. She looked like she was in pain. And it was awful. Josh mankiewicz a disturbing twist was ahead and an ordeal that would test them all. One by one, youre asking everyone to give you a Dna Sample. Yes. Josh mankiewicz how many people say yes . Everybody, except her boyfriend. He says no. Josh mankiewicz when dateline continues. When you have moderate to severe eczema, its okay to show off. With dupixent, show off your clearer skin and less itch. Because you have plenty of reasons to show off your skin. With dupixent, the 1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists, you can stay ahead of your eczema. It helps block a key source of inflammation inside the body that can cause eczema to help heal your skin from within. Many adults saw 90 clearer skin, some even achieved longlasting clearer skin and fast Itch Relief after first dose. Serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Tell your doctor about new or worsening Eye Problems such as Eye Pain or vision changes including blurred vision, Joint Aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Dont change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. Show off to The World. Ask your Eczema Specialist about dupixent. Ask your Eczema Specialist it was the long Labor Day Weekend in Las Cruces. A college town, home to New Mexico state university. Tracy waters it was a weird time in our current group. Josh Mankiewicz Things were going to be different this School Year for Tracy Waters and for her roommate, Katie Sepich, who was starting Grad School to study business administration. And for Katies Boyfriend, Joe Bischoff. He was moving home to gallup, New Mexico to help with his familys business. Tracy waters they had plans to still be together, were Making Plans for which weekends one would come and one would go to see the other, but distance was happening. Josh mankiewicz that holiday weekend, joe was in town to pick up the last of his stuff. Of course, he and katie made plans to get together. Tracy waters she worked that day in between doing things. And joe took well, maybe i should better say she took joe and he bought her a ring. It was her birthstone that she had been eyeballing. We had gone the day before to the store and looked at it. This is like a Promise Ring. I mean, i dont think i would ever tie a Promise Ring to the ring that it was. But i think it was definitely, a look to the future. Josh mankiewicz right. I mean, that would certainly seem to suggest that joe was thinking of a future, just as she was. Yes. Yeah. Josh mankiewicz then when the sun set in Las Cruces, they all went out. Katie flashing her new ring with joe by her side. Tracy waters so we had gone to a couple of bars. Closed down one of our favorite bars. Sort of, just one eveninglong party. An eveninglong party. Josh mankiewicz as usual, by The End of the night, they were at a friends home where the parting continued. Tracy had fallen asleep in one of the bedrooms. And in the middle of the night, she heard whispers. Tracy waters i remember hearing down the hall, wheres katie . But i was more Hearing It in a term of like, where in the house, not like, where in The World. And i just, never came out of the room. Josh mankiewicz the next morning, joe knocked on the Bedroom Door and asked tracy if shed heard from katie. Joe said katie was gone, and he didnt know where she was. Tracy waters so i went to grab my phone, and he said, ive called her. Her phones here. Josh Mankiewicz Tracy had some questions for joe. Tracy waters right out the gate, i said, did you guys get in an argument . Was she mad . He said no. Josh mankiewicz did he know why she left the party . Tracy waters i dont know that he was even saying that she had left, except that she wasnt there, and he was like, do you know where she went . Have you heard from her . And im like, i was asleep. Josh mankiewicz she thought katie must have walked back to the house they shared. Tracy waters i go home. Josh mankiewicz and expecting to see her in her room. Yes. Any sign that katie had been there . Tracey waters no. I looked in her room, nothing. All the doors were locked. There was no, like, sign that she had come in or left or anything. Her Purse And Wallet and Cell Phone were all back at the party. In her car. Her car was at the party. Josh Mankiewicz Tracy started calling every friend who lived within walking distance. Had anyone seen katie . Tracy waters as more and more people were telling me no, i was getting more and more nervous. So i asked joe, seriously, what happened . And he said we got into an argument, but i dont know where she went. Josh mankiewicz that sounded a little different from what hed said earlier. Did he describe the nature of that argument . Tracy waters no, not at that time. No. Josh mankiewicz he wouldnt say what it was about. Tracy waters no. I also wasnt asking because them getting into an Argument Wasnt unheard of. But her storming off without her things was what made me nervous. Josh mankiewicz all kinds of scenarios raced through tracys mind. Tracy waters if she were walking and shed gotten hit, like if someone had hit her, so i called hospitals. And then if she were walking and got picked up by police because she was definitely intoxicated, so i called the jail. To all of this, you get a pretty quick, no, we got nothing. Tracy waters no, we have No One. We have No One. And at this point, joe and a friend of his are driving up and down The Street just looking to see if she was on The Street. Joe more worried or Sort Of exasperated . Like, why are you doing this to me . Tracy waters i think he was frustrated, for sure. And as time was going on and none of the people that i was calling were saying she was there, he was getting more worried. Josh mankiewicz that afternoon, Tracy Called Katies parents, Jayann And Dave sepich, more than 200 miles away in carlsbad, New Mexico. Katies mom, jayann, picked up the phone. Jayann sepich her roommate said, have you talked to Katie Today . So i said no, i havent. Whats going on . And she explained that she and joe had had an argument and she had stormed out. And she said No Ones seen her since. And i said, oh, shes probably hiding out at a friends house, probably trying to scare joe. And she said no, weve called everyone. And i told her that i was very worried, and that i wanted to report her missing. And jayann said absolutely, call. Josh Mankiewicz Thats when tracy called Las Cruces pd and gave the cops that photo of katie. She did that not knowing a body had already been found earlier that day. Tracy waters it wasnt long before they were back. I would say, within the hour, they were back. And i took that as a good sign. And the officer asked me if i could come to identify someone. And i said yes, like enthusiastically because i guess, Im Thinking theyve arrested some woman who was walking down The Street intoxicated. And thats what im going to do is say yeah, thats her. Josh mankiewicz it was far from what tracy imagined. The officer drove her to the local hospital, where she was escorted down to the basement. And is it like in tv and movies, they pull a Sheet Back . Tracy waters she was in a body bag. And they folded back the top to about, chest area. And i screamed because all i saw initially was the side of her head, and i saw a silver earring. And it was her. Like, i didnt even have to look at her face, and i knew it was her. And she looked like she was in pain. And it was awful. Josh mankiewicz Coming Up Dave Sepich literally, i fell to my knees. It was horrible. Jayann sepich he said, shes gone. And i said, for sure . And he said yeah. He said, i just saw her. Shes dead. Josh mankiewicz who would want to kill katie . It has to be a stranger. Because no One Close to her would hurt her like that . We didnt think so. Josh mankiewicz when dateline continues. My moderate to severe crohns symptoms kept me out of the picture. With skyrizi,. Feel significant Symptom Relief at 4 weeks. Many people were in remission at 12 weeks, 1 year,. And even at 2 years. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections. Or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a Vaccine Or Plan to. Liver problems may occur in Crohns Disease or uc. Ask your gastroenterologist. About skyrizi. Control is everything to me. Now approved for uc. Air wick how far would you go to set your Home Ambiance . Try Air Wick essential mist diffuser. Its perfectly portable and glows with a fragrant mist. Transform your space with Air Wick essential mist. Always dry scoop before you run. Listen to me, the hot Dog Diet got me shredded. Its time we listen to science. One a day is formulated with key nutrients to support whole body health. One a day. Science that matters. Being a parent involves a lot of things, but close to the top of the list is commitment. The minute Tracy Waters called the sepichs to let them know katie was missing, katies dad, dave, got in the car bound for Las Cruces to look for his daughter. Dave sepich i dont know where shes at or what shes doing, but im going to go give her my peace of mind if i find her. Josh mankiewicz if he went prepared to give his daughter a lecture, everything changed once he arrived. Dave sepich when i walked in the door, there was a Police Captain and a victims advocate and a minister. And i knew immediately, when i saw him that it couldnt be good. And of course, they told me that they had found her body that morning, but they didnt know who she was because she didnt have any id on her. I mean, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Josh mankiewicz any father would have to see for himself. Dave sepich ill never forget going down the hallway in the basement of that hospital to the morgue and going in there. And when they pulled that Sheet Back, it literally, i fell to my knees. And then i can remember walking out of there. And it was a the feeling that youre leaving your child for the last time. It was horrible. Josh mankiewicz Dave Sepich steadied himself and called his wife, jayann. Jayann sepich and he said, shes gone. And i said, for sure . And he said yeah. He said, i just saw her. Shes dead. Josh mankiewicz shed hoped it wasnt true, but shed had a moment earlier that day. Jayann sepich i just had a feeling. Call it mothers intuition. I had had a very anxious feeling from the time i woke up that morning. And as the day went on, when i didnt hear from katie, i got more and more anxious. And then when tracy called, i had i knew. And i turned to a friend of mine who was visiting for that weekend, and i said, i think katies dead. I just have this dark feeling. Josh mankiewicz it was jayann who told katies brother, aj. Aj sepich it was such a blow to your soul that you really just dont know how to keep moving forward. And theres no sight from anything beyond the next minute, the next breath. Josh Mankiewicz Aj immediately left albuquerque, where hed just started college, to be with his family. Caraline, the youngest of the sepich kids, watched through her nineyearold eyes. Caraline sepich my visual memories of my life right after my sister died are really crisp and really clear, but theyre not vibrant. Its as if this very bright light of love was just gone, because it was. My sister was gone. Josh mankiewicz it was a seismic shift in the Sepich Clan because katie was full of life from the moment she was born. Woman get the cake. Get the cake and im going to cut it. Happy birthday to me. Happy birthday to me. This is me. Dave sepich Little Katie [chuckling] she was quite something. She was Dave Sepich On Recording here is Katie Sepich. Dave sepich just a Ball Of Fire from day one. Dave sepich On Recording say hi. Hi. Dave sepich On Recording thanks. Dave Sepich Katie was just, the most rambunctious little Kid Youve ever met. And she grew up that way. She was just going 90 miles an hour her whole life. She was something. That didnt change. No. [music playing] [muffled siging] Josh Mankiewicz its what aj loved about his big sister. Aj sepich she was always the front runner. The one with the ideas. And i was kind of, you know, the backup singer. Cant go wrong. Josh mankiewicz in this home video, he literally tried to be. Daddy. Josh mankiewicz but katie made sure, she was front and center. Nevertheless, growing up katie protected him always. Aj sepich she was like a hybrid of a mom and a sister to me. And also, a best friend. If i was having trouble in school with like, a classmate, she would step in. Katie, not your mom. Aj sepich oh, no. Katie would. Me and katie were kind of the two peas in the pod that were always always kind of together. Us against the World Kind of thing. Dave sepich On Recording theres aj, katie, jayann. Josh mankiewicz before long, katie was off to college in Las Cruces and looking to the future. Jayann sepich i said, what do you think youre going to do with this mba . Katie, what do you think youre going to do . And she said oh, mom, i dont know, yet. I really dont know. She said, but i know one thing. Im going to change The World. Josh mankiewicz and you thought, thats the way young, idealistic kids talk, or youre right, katie . Knowing katie, i thought, she probably will. Shell probably find something that she thinks is important and make it happen and maybe change The World. Josh mankiewicz now the sepichs has wondered, how, or if, their world could go on without her . Dave sepich in my mind, i was thinking, i dont know if we can do this. This is ive never been here before, and it just looked like like a long, dark hallway that you Cant Figure out how to get to the other end. And at this point, we had been together 32 years. And i was determined that our family was going to stay together, and that we would fight to do that. Dave sepich and those are the two prettiest girls in the whole world. [chuckling] yeah. Josh mankiewicz they would fight to save their family. Dave sepich and for special treat. Josh mankiewicz but they also needed to know, who took katie away from them . Dave Sepich Jayann told me she said, i Cant Figure out who would do this to katie. And she said, it has to be a stranger. It had to be a random act. Because no One Close to her would hurt her like that . We didnt think so. Well, katie had a way about her that she could tell Someone Something and get away with it that nobody else could tell them, and people didnt get angry with her. Josh mankiewicz so if it wasnt anyone she knew, then who . A big mystery to solve for the city of Las Cruces. Woman investigators say Josh Mankiewicz and a big story for the local media, like nbc affiliate kob. Woman were interviewing witnesses, family, friends, anybody that may have seen her that night at the bars here in town. Josh mankiewicz this was a holiday weekend. Much of Law Enforcement was off the clock. Robert jones a lot of work that should have been done wasnt done. Josh mankiewicz a couple of days passed before Robert Jones was assigned as Lead Investigator for the Sheriffs Department. So it took a few days to get up to speed. Robert jones yeah, we were way behind the eight ball. Way behind it. Josh mankiewicz Mark Myers, who was there from the beginning, stayed on for Las Cruces pd and worked the case with jones. By now, officers had returned to tracy and katies house, where a roommate had made a discovery near Katies Bedroom window. A Sign Katie had made it home. Robert jones we find her shoes. We find that the screen has been missing from the window. And you can actually see in the gravel where her body was, where she had struggled there. There was a difference of opinion. Some people believe that it happened there. Some people believe that all that was the abduction, the fight, and getting her away from there. Josh mankiewicz meaning, katie could have been killed right there outside her home, or abducted there, killed somewhere else, and later dumped near the old landfill. Investigators did agree on one thing. Robert Jones Katie fought. She fought with everything she had. Josh mankiewicz according to the autopsy report, Katie Sepich had been sexually assaulted and murdered by strangulation. But thanks to science, the evil that men do sometimes lives after them. In this case, Robert Jones was certain, katie had her Attackers Dna under her fingernails and elsewhere on her body. Robert jones she obviously took some skin off of the person that did this. Josh mankiewicz Forensic Evidence was collected from katies remains. Investigators hoped that Dna Profile would provide all the answers. Because then, all they would need was the Suspect Profile that matched it. Coming up man you know why youre here. Joe bischoff yeah. Man you know its not good. Ok . Joe bischoff yes, sir. Josh Mankiewicz Police have some questions for Katies Boyfriend, Joe Man how did it happen . Joe bischoff what, sir . Man her death . Joe bischoff i dont know, sir. I know nothing about it. Sir, i know nothing about it. I feel so bad. Katie was everything to me. 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Former President Donald Trump will try to sell as much is on the economy in butler, pennsylvania on saturday. That is the site of the Field Assassination Attempt that left one Supporter Dad and trump injured in the ear. For now, back to dateline. Dave sepich she just had this Fearless Attitude that, i can handle it. Ive got it under control. Josh mankiewicz that Summer Night in 2003, katie was overpowered. Dave sepich she was tough. I think she did everything she could, you know . Woman tonight, investigators have made the case a top priority. Sepich was supposed to come home late Saturday Night, but she never did. Josh mankiewicz despite all the local coverage, there was something different about this case. Robert jones when you have a Murder Case like this, you have people calling in and saying, hey, this guy is saying he did this or i saw this. Normally, people drop a dime on somebody they know. Robert jones yes. You get some tips, but we just werent getting any on this one. Josh Mankiewicz Investigators started canvassing the neighborhood. Someone must have seen or at least, heard something. Thats when katies parents shared an unusual fact about their daughter. Katie sepich could not scream. Jayann sepich she had a very husky voice, and she just she couldnt scream. I mean, when she would try, she would go [trying to scream]. She could not scream. Ever since she was a little girl. Josh mankiewicz meaning, it was suddenly unlikely, any neighbor, any witness had heard a cry for help. Youve thought about that, havent you . Mmhmm. Yeah, because her Roommates Mother was asleep in the house. Josh Mankiewicz Tracys mom was visiting. Her room was just a few feet away from where investigators believed katie was attacked, but she never heard anything. Dave sepich and im sure, that katie at least tried, but her voice just wouldnt let her do it. Josh mankiewicz no witnesses, just katie and her attacker. Someone Law Enforcement was certain would have some visible scratches. So at least in those first few days, youre looking at somebody with some scrapes on them. We did. Josh mankiewicz they found No One. And there was also katies jewelry missing from her body. Mark myers we hit every Pawn Shop in the state and Western Texas and Eastern Arizona and southern colorado. Josh mankiewicz they were looking for a watch and two rings, including the Birthstone Ring Katies Boyfriend joe had bought for her. Robert jones and that was one of the things that we never disclosed to anybody. Because we knew that if we could ever find that ring or if we ever found someone, they couldnt say, well, we knew about it, because we didnt release that information. Any of her jewelry turn up anywhere . It doesnt. Josh Mankiewicz Cops also wondered if katie, who was a popular waitress at a local restaurant in Las Cruces, had felt threatened or stalked by any of her customers . Robert jones we looked at everything that surrounded her there. Nothing. Nothing. Josh mankiewicz an impossible scenario, anyway, Thought Jayann because katie shared everything with her mom. Katie was very open and honest with me. And i know that if she had been being stalked or if she felt like someone was threatening her, i would have known about it. She would have said something. She would have told me. Josh Mankiewicz Police and Sheriffs Investigators looked closer to home and learned something interesting. Security Camera Video from the bar they went to that night showed joe and katie together and Holding Hands as they left. However, at the House Party that followed, things went south in a hurry. Mark myers and when you start interviewing people at the party, you learn about the argument with the boyfriend. That comes up pretty quickly. Oh, yeah. Right away. What did people tell you . Mark myers that she was extremely upset because she walked in on him kissing some other girl. Josh mankiewicz that was a detail joe omitted from his story to Katies Roommate, tracy, and from his initial statement to police. Investigators wanted more from joe. So nine hours after Katies Body was found, they escorted him to the station and started pressing joe hard. Man you know why youre here. Joe bischoff yeah. Man you know its not good. Ok . Joe bischoff yes, sir. Man your Girlfriend Katie is passed away. Ok . Joe bischoff [sobbing] man you need some kleenex . Joe bischoff what happened . Josh Mankiewicz Joe was emotional, but seemed to pull it together. And this time, he offered more details. Man i was hoping you could tell me a little bit more about what happened. Joe bischoff just, last night, she she got mad at me. I came home from the bar. She got mad at me because i was kind of fooling around with my roommates sister. She walked in and then she she left. And thats the last thats the last time i saw her. Josh mankiewicz he said he and a friend went to look for katie in katies car. Joe bischoff i drove by her house. Her Light Wasnt on so i didnt stop. Josh Mankiewicz Joe said he then went back to the House Party and fell asleep on the couch with the woman he had kissed. Joe bischoff i was really drunk. I really didnt care, you know . Im kind of like that when im drinking. I dont care about a relationship very much. Im not really as faithful as i should be. Josh Mankiewicz Joe said he did try to phone katie. Its not hard to imagine a scenario in which a Boyfriend And Girlfriend have a fight over his involvement with some other woman. She storms off. He goes after her. They continue the Fight Someplace else. He loses his temper. It turns more violent than anybody anticipated, and he ends up dumping her body somewhere. Its a likely scenario. Its something that could have happened. And it just happens a lot. Just like that. I mean, it absolutely, looked like he had some involvement in this. Josh mankiewicz so the investigator asked, Flat Out man did you kill her . Joe bischoff no, sir. Man how did it happen . Joe bischoff what, sir . Man her death . Joe bischoff i dont know, sir. I know nothing about it, sir. I know nothing about it. I feel so bad. Katie was everything to me. Man if she was everything to you, why were you screwing around on her, though . Joe bischoff i dont know, sir. I get drunk, im stupid, you know . Josh mankiewicz they needed to rule joe in or out, along with Everyone Else whod been at that House Party. And there was one laborintensive way to do that. One by one, youre asking everyone whom you to be in attendance at the party to give you a Dna Sample. Yes. Josh mankiewicz how many people say yes . Everybody. So 30, 40 people. Mark myers except her boyfriend. Joe bischoff. He says no. He says no. Josh mankiewicz Coming Up they told us the reasons they thought it was joe. And it broke my heart. Because youd had him in your home. And because i liked him. I remember thinking, this just cant be. Josh mankiewicz perfect boyfriend now prime suspect. Could a hidden Camera Capture a confession . Sometimes, people have to relieve their mind. And if it was joe, that was a perfect place. Josh mankiewicz when dateline continues. Upset Stomach Iberogast Indigestion Iberogast Bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. Six digestive symptoms. The power of nature. Iberogast. Only Purples Gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. No other mattress cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. The power of nature. Memory foam doesnt come close. Get your best sleep guaranteed. Buy more, save more. Up to 600 off. Visit purple. Com or a store near you. When investigators spoke with Katie Sepichs boyfriend, Joe Bischoff, there were things that didnt sit well with them. For example, after katie stormed off on the night she disappeared, joe said he and a friend went looking for her. Mark Myers Lo and behold, that would have been the time that she would have been abducted. Josh mankiewicz whats more, Joes Story was that he went to katies house, but he never got out of the car. Mark myers so if youre really going to check on her, check on her, right . Dont just drive by and then assume that if you dont see her, she made it in the house. Josh mankiewicz big red flag, thought detective myers. And then there were the Phone Calls joe said hed made to katies phone trying to find her. Mark myers when we got all the Phone Records and got her phone, he was actually calling the phone at the same time he was in possession of her purse, her phone, and her keys. It sounds like hes calling her phone trying to do a cover story, saying hes trying to get a hold of her. This is a guy trying to build an alibi. Thats what it sounds like. Josh mankiewicz within days of Katies Murder, joe left Las Cruces for his hometown 300 miles away. He told investigators hed be coming back if they needed anything else from him. And of course, they did. Investigators asked joe to return for another interview and to give a sample of his dna. Robert jones and when i called him on the phone, he said that he wouldnt be back. That he had retained an attorney. He wasnt going to be talking to us anymore. Josh mankiewicz and then Joe Bischoff made it clear, he was not going to provide his dna. Hes not helping us at all. Under what circumstances would someone not give their dna to help solve the murder of somebody that they were involved with and loved and planned to marry if they dont have any involvement . We couldnt understand why he wouldnt give us the dna if he had no involvement in it. Josh mankiewicz well, Joe Wasnt saying. But his attorney explained the Change Of Heart to the press by saying it had to do with the way the investigation was being handled. So now, investigators had to get Joes Dna without his cooperation. You follow Joe Bischoff around hoping he was going to discard something some soda can or something that you could get dna off of. Anything, yeah. Josh mankiewicz didnt work. Didnt work. Josh mankiewicz and because you dont have his dna, you Cant Test it. And because he wont do an interview, you cant ask him to take his shirt off. Robert jones we cant. Hes basically, untouchable. Theres nothing we can do to him. Josh mankiewicz not yet, anyway. But the evidence seemed to be stacking up. Investigators told the sepichs, Joe Bischoff was now their prime suspect. They told us the reasons they thought it was joe, and it broke my heart. I mean, i thought, i couldnt be any more upset than i was. Because youd had him in your home. And because i liked him. I remember thinking, this just cant be. Josh mankiewicz after all, joe had passed the list test, something jayann taught all her kids. Jayann sepich i used to tell them, make a list. Make a list of things that you think are important in someone that you would want to end up with and make a list of deal breakers. And when katie called me about joe, she said mom, no deal breakers. All the important things on the list. As a dad, you kind of make sure that theyre going to be somebody thats going to treat your daughter right, and he did. I mean, he was very nice, very polite. A gentleman. Dave sepich a gentleman. And he really, i think, thought The World of katie. And it just boggled our mind when all this happened. I couldnt believe it. Josh mankiewicz could they have been that wrong about joe . Jayann sepich i knew katie loved him. And it just broke my heart to think this man she loved, killed her, and that her last moments were being killed by someone she loved. Josh mankiewicz another huge blow to the Sepich Family because they couldnt believe anyone who knew and loved their daughter would be capable of taking her life. Dave sepich up to that point, joe was planning on coming for the funeral. And when several of our friends found out about it and then they told some other people that he was a suspect, some of our friends contacted some of katies friends and said he better not come. Its not a good idea for him to come. Josh mankiewicz and so Joe Bischoff, who dated katie for eight months, did not attend her Funeral Services in carlsbad. He might have been the only person ever to Cross Paths with Katie Sepich who was not in attendance. Jayann sepich and there were well over 1,000 people there. They had to set up loudspeakers outside because Everybody Couldnt get into the church. Josh mankiewicz katies brother, aj, could barely speak. Aj sepich and from the only things that i can even remember were the feeling of the Tears Kind of just streaming like a river down my face. And reminding everybody in the crowd just, if you have a sibling, like, call them now. Tell them you love them. Josh mankiewicz while family and friends mourned and celebrated Katie Sepichs life, investigators were trying to solve her death. And that quest took them to the church parking lot. They knew Joe Wasnt at the funeral, but they wanted to be thorough. Robert jones we photographed and videotaped all of the vehicles that were there, all their Tire Tracks. Josh mankiewicz remember, cops had found a Tire Track near Katies Body. Some Shoe Leather Police work told them the tire likely belonged to a small Pickup Truck. Now, they were hoping to find that vehicle parked at katies funeral. Nothing. Nothing. Josh mankiewicz then, another idea. Myers decided to put a Hidden Camera at Katies Gravesite, hoping Joe Bischoff would visit. And see if he confesses to katies grave. Yes. People do things like that . Sometimes, people have to relieve their mind and apologize. And if it was joe, that was the perfect place. He wasnt allowed to attend the funeral. Maybe, hed go and do it. Josh mankiewicz Coming Up, new evidence from the lab. She scratched her attacker. She did. There was plenty of dna. Robert jones there was dna under every fingernail. Josh mankiewicz would it point to joe . I really dont think so. Josh Mankiewicz Joe wasnt cooperating, and investigators were about to hit a Wall Susana Martinez we didnt have the probable cause. Josh mankiewicz and saying Everybody Else gave a Dna Sample, hes her boyfriend, hes the only one who wont, thats not enough order. It is not sufficient. Josh mankiewicz when dateline continues. Huh. How long have you been tracking our Cars Value with carvana . Just, like, 7 months. Should we sell it . We hold. Hold. Silver vans are going for more right now, should we. Hold. 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Serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Tell your doctor about new or worsening Eye Problems such as Eye Pain or vision changes including blurred vision, Joint Aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Dont change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. Show off to The World. Ask your Eczema Specialist about dupixent. Introducing a revolution in Pain Relief. Ask your Eczema Specialist absorbine junior pro, the strongest numbing Pain Relief available. Its the only solution with two Max Strength anesthetics for fast penetrating Relief Absorbine junior pro. Nothing numbs pain more. A Hidden Camera at a Grave Site sounds like something from a movie. To investigators trying to solve a murder, it sounded promising. A chance to record Joe Bischoff maybe baring his soul, confessing to the murder of Katie Sepich. It was a great idea, but it didnt work. Josh mankiewicz a sprinkler knocked over the camera. And so there was no evidence joe ever visited Katies Gravesite in carlsbad. Cops remained focused on joe, even though investigators frankly admitted, they didnt have enough for an arrest. The sepichs were desperate for answers. They offered Reward Money and kept the story in the media. Woman 22yearold graduate student Katie Sepich was walking home from a late Saturday Night party. Josh Mankiewicz Anything to keep the investigation from stalling. Dave sepich The One thing we are pretty well sure of is that, it was someone she knew. Jayann sepich and i feel confident that they will find the right person or persons. Josh mankiewicz publicly, they seemed to hold it together. Their youngest daughter, caraline, saw a different side. Caraline sepich The Look Of Sadness in my parents eyes and my brothers eyes, and the fact that it was there day after day, and that it never went away. Josh mankiewicz by now, the Forensic Evidence collected from Katies Body had been sent to a lab, and the results were back. She scratched her attacker. She did. There was plenty of dna. Robert jones there was dna under every fingernail on both hands. Josh mankiewicz the same dna was also found in other areas of her body. That profile belonged to one man. Im thinking, one of the first things you do is run that dna against the national database. We did. And . That person was not in the database. Josh mankiewicz and that seemed to support their theory. This is not a stranger. Robert jones Everything Led us to believe that she knew who this person was. Everything led to this not being a random killing. Josh mankiewicz to investigators, it all led back to Joe Bischoff. But from the beginning, Tracy Waters, Katies Roommate, disagreed. Tracy waters i said, i dont think so. I really dont think so. Actually, i said impossible. Josh Mankiewicz Tracy knew joe initially did not tell her or police that katie had caught him kissing another woman that night. She thought there might be an innocent explanation for how joe behaved after that. I think he knew what he had done to cause their argument, and he didnt want me to know. He was embarrassed. I think he was very embarrassed. Josh mankiewicz as for his refusal to cooperate with investigators, tracy said joe was following his parents advice. They were The Ones whod hired the attorney, said tracy. Tracy waters and i think that, thats what any parent would do, especially if they truly believe that their son was innocent. Or if they believe their son was guilty. Tracy waters true. True. I think its what a parent does to protect their kid. And i think that, thats what the biscoffs did to protect joe. Josh Mankiewicz Jones and myers tried to get a warrant for Joes Dna. Susana martinez, who was District Attorney in Dona Ana County when katie was killed, would not approve it. Susana martinez we didnt have the probable cause. You have to have probable cause to be able to present to a judge to say, this is why we need this from him. And saying Everybody Else gave a Dna Sample, hes her boyfriend, hes the only one who wont, thats not enough for a court order. It is not sufficient. Josh Mankiewicz Detective myers disagreed. Mark myers i, to this day, i believe we had plenty of probable cause. He puts himself at the scene of the crime, he is creating an alibi, and hes not truthful about it in the beginning. That normally gets you over the probable cause bar. Mark myers absolutely. Absolutely. But, you know, it was a highprofile case. We dont get a lot of those kind of cases, so they were overly cautious. Josh mankiewicz then, another idea. This time from Robert Jones. Joe had told investigators, he and katie had sex with day before she went missing. Jones wondered if Joes Dna might still be on the Bedding Theyd collected from Katies Room . So you test the bedding to see if you can get Joes Dna. We did. We sent it in. Josh mankiewicz they held their breath and waited. Coming up Robert Jones the District Attorney said, look, we got a Dna Sample off Katies Bed. Lets clear this up right now. Josh mankiewicz the results are in Mark Myers i was shocked. Devastated because now im like now, its the worst case scenario, right . Josh mankiewicz and a whole new puzzle is about to begin [screaming] i jolted out of bed, and i just ran down the hallway. I just was like, i am not a victim. He picked the wrong girl. Josh mankiewicz when dateline continues. Josh mankiewicz in 1950, a small town in New Mexico renamed itself truth or consequences, after a popular radio show. Now just down the road, people who loved Katie Sepich were struggling to deal with both, the truth and the consequences of her murder. Tracy waters i had a lot of dreams that she wasnt dead. And that it was all just something that had to be staged. And that she would be back. I had dreams that she called me and told me that. Josh mankiewicz except, every time tracy opened her eyes, Reality Set in. Katie was not coming back. Tracy waters i spent a lot of time concerned that someone had been watching our house. Would know all of our moves and our schedules. Thats if its somebody random. If its not somebody random, then somebody you know might be a murderer. Yeah. I think the other unrest is that someone that youve interacted with, that youve shared a drink with, that youve posed in a picture with could hurt someone like they hurt her. Is a killer. Yeah. Josh Mankiewicz Tracy had staked out the lonely ground of believing Joe Bischoff was not capable of hurting katie. But as the days went by there were times where i wanted it to just be him. Josh mankiewicz because then it would be over. Itd be done. Its tougher when theres no answer. Tracy waters it is. And i was willing to to accept being wrong about someone if it meant there was an answer. Josh mankiewicz finally, a few months after the murder came an answer, of sorts. Male dna had been found on Katies Bed sheets. Robert jones we dont know for sure that its joe, but we know that Katie Wasnt seeing anybody else. Presumably, thats joe. Presumably, thats joe. Josh mankiewicz their prime suspect, so investigators eagerly compared the dna from the bed with the dna found on Katies Body. And it doesnt match the dna under her fingernails. It does not match the dna on her body at all. Josh mankiewicz which could only mean one thing joe didnt do this. Josh mankiewicz Joe Bischoff, who had changed his story, who had stopped cooperating, who had lawyered up, who was the only person at that party not to give a Dna Sample was also, not the killer. Mark myers i was shocked. Devastated because now im like now, its the worst case scenario, right . Josh mankiewicz that youre back to square one. Square zero. And now, were three months behind, and we dont have a clue. Josh mankiewicz in, Hindsight Myers admits, they developed a case of tunnel vision. That didnt change his conviction that Joe Bischoffs refusal to cooperate was inexcusable. Id be hard pressed to not want to punch him in the throat. It made your job harder and put Katies Family through some unneeded hardship. Mark myers oh, we put him through hell for no reason. Give up your dna and be there for the family. Thats all he had to do. Josh mankiewicz after the results of the betting came back, Joe Bischoff did eventually give a sample of his dna. The District Attorney contacted Joe Bischoffs attorney and said, look, we got a Dna Sample off Katies Bed. Its a male, but its not The One that we found on her body. So if thats you Robert Jones so if its joe, lets clear this up right now and get everybody off his back. When he finally gave you his dna, did joe tell you why he had refused to do that for so long . Robert jones he didnt. In fact, one of the conditions were that we werent to talk to him at all. We drove to northern New Mexico. We met him at a police department. He walked in. I introduced myself to him. I asked him to sign the consent form, gave us a Dna Sample, and we left. We never even never said anything else to him. Josh Mankiewicz Joe was cleared. And for Katies Roommate, tracy, it was welcome news. I felt kind of vindicated. I felt actually, just more happy that i hadnt been wrong. And that you didnt turn on him. Tracy waters and that i stood by my vision of him the entire time. I just felt so bad for him because he had been villainized wrongly. Josh mankiewicz the sepiches did not share that sympathy. Jayann sepich at the time, i was very angry. No, we were we were very upset that this could have been resolved way earlier. And they could have been on the road looking somewhere else. Josh mankiewicz and so if it wasnt Joe Bischoff, then who . Katies killer was still on the loose. And now, all of Las Cruces seemed to be on edge. Mark myers you feel it in the community. You go get a cup of coffee and people ask you about it. And they expect you to give good answers like, hey, were safe, right . And you cant really tell them that. Mark myers yeah. It was stressful. Josh mankiewicz then a new lead. Another woman, another attack, and a new mystery. One that would take investigators on a manhunt halfway across the country. Coming up woman maam, is that someone screaming, please, dont . Woman oh, now i can smell the burn on her. Woman you can smell the burn . Woman yeah, you know, her flesh. Josh mankiewicz a Crime Hauntingly like katies. Certainly sounds familiar. Sounds real familiar. Josh Mankiewicz Police wondered, could there be a link . We were almost 90 confident that this is the guys. Josh mankiewicz when dateline continues. My moderate to severe crohns symptoms kept me out of the picture. With skyrizi,. Feel significant Symptom Relief at 4 weeks. Many people were in remission at 12 weeks, 1 year,. And even at 2 years. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections. Or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a Vaccine Or Plan to. Liver problems may occur in Crohns Disease or uc. Ask your gastroenterologist. About skyrizi. Control is everything to me. Now approved for uc. Air wick. Every year millions of noses are ghosted by their plugins. New Air Wick advanced. Our groundbreaking plugin that Pulses Scent for staying power, up to 60 days. Plus a fragrance boost button. Our noses wont be ignored again. With bugs, the struggle is real. Thats why you need zevo traps. Zevo attracts and traps bugs 24 7 using a blue and Uv Light with no odor and no mess for effortless protection. Zevo. Peoplefriendly. Bugdeadly. I still love to surf, snowboard, and, of course, skate. So, i take Qunol Magnesium to support my Muscle And Bone health. Qunols extra strength, high Absorption Magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. Qunol, the brand i trust. Dna evidence had cleared Joe Bischoff as a suspect in Katie Sepichs murder. Now, her family wondered if her killer would ever be found. Jayann sepich i was so relieved when that dna didnt match, the bedding didnt match because i didnt want it to be him. On the other hand, i was like, dave i thought, well, if its not him, who is it . Josh mankiewicz and then investigators discovered a disturbing new lead. Woman this poor woman. Someone woman they lit her On Fire in the middle of a field. Woman yeah. Josh mankiewicz it had happened 11 days before Katies Murder about 1,500 miles away in Green Bay, wisconsin. Robert jones there was a female that had walked outside of a she had left a bar and walked outside and was going to her vehicle. Josh mankiewicz it sounded a lot like what had happened to Katie Sepich. The 25yearold woman had gotten upset with her boyfriend and walked out on him. Robert jones and she was picked up by two individuals. They grabbed her. Threw her into vehicle. They drove her out into a secluded Farm Area where they raped her, they strangled her, and then they poured a liquid on her body and lit her On Fire. Certainly sounds familiar. Sounds real familiar. Josh mankiewicz miraculously, though, that young woman in wisconsin survived. She crawled to a nearby home, rang the doorbell, and the owners called 911. And as they tried to help the injured woman, the dispatcher encouraged them to ask her questions. Woman do you know what the vehicle was that these people were in . Woman [inaudible] woman oh, she was looking and then someone screaming, please, dont. Oh, now i can smell the burn on her. Woman you can smell the burn . Woman yeah. You know, her flesh. We can see you were lit On Fire. Was there one or two people . Two people. Woman is there a description at all . Woman do you know, what did they look like . Were they tall . Woman im sorry. Woman short . Woman im not really woman not sure. Josh mankiewicz the young Woman Couldnt Offer much more, not at that point. She was eventually able to provide police a description of her attackers, which led to these sketches. Two men who drove a truck, just as investigators believed Katies Killer did. Then came a call from the manager of a nearby dairy farm. And one of the farmers there recognized both of the individuals as his employees. Josh mankiewicz their names were Gregorio Morales and Juan Nieto. The farmer said the men had left town separately after the attack, but morales had recently resurfaced and was back working at the farm. Thats when the Dairy Farmer turned detective. He bought soda for morales. And once morales drank from the bottles, the Dairy Farmer secured them in a Plastic Bag and turned them over to investigators, who sent them out for dna testing. The investigators also looked into the suspects backgrounds and discovered this. One of the suspects had lived in mexico within 200 miles of us. Whats your gut tell you at that point . This is it. These are the guys. Were hoping. Josh mankiewicz he wasnt the only one. Our hope is real high. And then, of course, once we found out that some of them had connections in New Mexico, we were almost 90 confident that this was the guys. But youd been confident about joe, too. Yeah. Yeah. I think you just look for any morsel out there that you can find to hang on to. Josh Mankiewicz Jayann was struggling with a different thought. Jayann sepich i thought, why Couldnt Katie have lived . Why couldnt that have been katie . But i worked through that. I realized, ive since decided, dont use The Word if. Never use The Word if. Youd rather think about what is. Face what is. Try to change the future if you can, but dont look back and say, what if . Josh mankiewicz a few months later, investigators submitted the Soda Bottles for dna testing. And they learned Gregorio Morales was a match. Just not the match Robert Jones was hoping for. And his dna is a match for the Green Bay case, but not for katies. But not for katies. But theres still one more suspect than that. Yes, Juan Nieto was still outstanding. Josh Mankiewicz Juan Nieto was the second suspect in the Green Bay case. He remained a suspect in Katies Murder. Man right now, investigators in the Sepich Case Hope to find nieto. Josh mankiewicz only one problem, mr. Nieto was nowhere to be found. Coming up i just felt like id been kicked in the stomach. What do you mean, they dont do this . Josh mankiewicz a bold plan to change the system. Well, this is just wrong. We need to bring families justice. It Sort Of transformed Katies Family, didnt it . It did. Josh mankiewicz a Grieving Family on a mission and racing the clock we were told, theres no way you can get this law passed in 30 days. Its going to be impossible. Josh mankiewicz when dateline continues. The Darkness Of Bipolar Depression made me feel like life was moving on without me. Then i found a chance to let in the lyte. discover caplyta. Unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta is proven to deliver significant Symptom Relief from both bipolar i ii depression. And in clinical trials, Movement Disorders and Weight Gain were not common. Caplyta can cause serious Side Effects. Call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for dementiarelated psychosis. 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Josh mankiewicz not a match to Katies Case, but plenty of evidence to tie him to the wisconsin case. So that one was solved. Katies murder was not. That was definitely, a really strong and unbelievably harsh let down. Josh mankiewicz and once again were back to square one. Josh mankiewicz later that year, the sepiches suffered another blow. Robert jones was calling it quits after 23 years with a badge. During that time, my father got very ill. I just decided to go in and retire at that time. Tough to leave with it unsolved. Very tough. Josh mankiewicz he didnt want to stop. No, he didnt want to stop. Its hard to put down. I mean, here you have a girl with a great family who had her whole life ahead of her, and that was stolen from her. Thats hard to walk away from. Once you walk away, you dont know whos going to work on it. If theyre going to give the same effort you did. Josh mankiewicz So Myers was determined to give it all he had. The sepiches werent giving up, either. Jayann recalled jones once telling her how his team regularly searched the national Dna Database to see if any new profiles were uploaded that matched Katies Killer. And i made the comment that this man was such a monster, that he would be arrested for something. And when he was arrested, when they took his fingerprints and when they took his mugshot, that they would swab his cheek, and wed be able to identify him. And thats when Robert Jones said oh, no, jayann, its illegal to do that. Its illegal in New Mexico and almost every state. Because in nearly every state, dna was taken from people who were convicted, not people who were arrested. Right. And i just felt like id been kicked in the stomach. I thought, what do you mean, they dont do this . Why not . Josh mankiewicz that realization stirred something in jayann. And that was when i started thinking, well, this is just wrong. We need to shorten that time frame. We need to bring families justice. Thats when i got on the internet. Started doing research. Started talking to people. Because to me, it was just absolutely ridiculous that we have this incredible, accurate, scientific tool and were not using it like fingerprints. Josh mankiewicz she got to work educating herself about dna and the justice system. Caraline, at 11 years old, got involved. I even started Reading Books about dna and about dna in criminal justice. And i was just a little kid, but i was a big nerd. So we just had a lot of Family Discussions about what was required to get a match, and how that would work. And thats when we came up with the idea of in New Mexico, expanding taking dna to all felony arrests. And we started talking about that, and thats how this venture got started. Josh mankiewicz it Sort Of transformed Katies Family, didnt it . It did. Josh mankiewicz remember Susana Martinez . She was District Attorney when katie was killed in 2003. She also helped the sepiches in their efforts to change the States Dna laws. As part of the District Attorneys association, i then started to help out by making sure we were trying to push a law forward with the State Legislature. Josh mankiewicz in 2006, almost two and a half years after Katies Murder, the Sepichs State Representative submitted their proposed bill to the New Mexico State Legislature for review. He told jayann, they were in a race against time. New mexico, in 2006, only had a 30day session. And we were told, theres no way you can get this law passed in 30 days. Its going to be impossible. Josh mankiewicz impossible was not a Word Jayann liked to hear. She moved 300 miles north to the State Capitol in Santa Fe for a month. My Mom Wouldnt take no for an answer. She just decided, this was too important. We need to do this for katie and for all of the other victims and their families in New Mexico. Thankfully, we had some really gracious friends who basically, let us stay in their home. My dad went back and forth. My mom stayed there the whole time. And i even went there with her. Josh Mankiewicz Jayann discovered most of the legislators, while sympathetic, did not want to change existing law. They were concerned that it would be unconstitutional. That it would be a violation of the fourth amendment, which protects us from unreasonable search and seizure. That because your dna you have to put a qtip inside your mouth, that its a search. That its somehow more invasive than rolling Jayann Sepich more invasive than a fingerprint. That because dna contains the blueprint of who you are, that its more of an invasion of privacy than a fingerprint. Josh mankiewicz nonsense, jayann thought. We take fingerprints of arrestees all the time. And dna is the modern fingerprint. Armed with many months of research, she worked around the clock to persuade legislators. And i got to the legislature every morning at about 7 00, and i stayed till every night about 8 00. And theres 112 legislators in New Mexico, and i talked to 108 of them facetoface, just sat down and explained things to them. Josh mankiewicz Katies Family hoped her murder would help bring real change and maybe prevent other families from suffering a similar fate. And, they prayed, a new law might just help catch Katies Killer, as well. We just felt like eventually, somebodys going to get caught. And if the right person was arrested for the right thing that, that might be the person. Josh mankiewicz it was a family effort. Even so, aj struggled with the starring role in which his dead sister had been cast. It was difficult for me to see my sisters face kind of being used as the Poster Child for legal action. It was just at that time, seeing her in the news and seeing that her face and her likeness just everywhere, it hurt. It was just because she didnt belong to Everybody Else. She belonged to you. Aj sepich exactly. It was just it made something so private, into something extremely public. Josh mankiewicz as the brief legislative session drew to a close, the Sepich Family held their collective breath, as theyd done so many times before. No telling what was about to happen. But at The End of the session, there was finally, a vote. Coming up Dave Sepich i couldnt quit thinking about it. I couldnt sleep. He wanted justice. He wanted vengeance. I get the feeling, he was working at least as hard as the police on this. Aj sepich oh, if not harder. He was living and breathing every single moment of every single day. Josh mankiewicz a crime unsolved. A family on the brink. I wanted answers. I really wanted answers. Josh mankiewicz was a breakthrough near . We couldnt give up. Josh mankiewicz when dateline continues. When you have moderate to severe eczema, its okay to show off. With dupixent, show off your clearer skin and less itch. Because you have plenty of reasons to show off your skin. With dupixent, the 1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists, you can stay ahead of your eczema. It helps block a key source of inflammation inside the body that can cause eczema to help heal your skin from within. Many adults saw 90 clearer skin, some even achieved longlasting clearer skin and fast Itch Relief after first dose. Serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Tell your doctor about new or worsening Eye Problems such as Eye Pain or vision changes including blurred vision, Joint Aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Dont change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. Show off to The World. Ask your Eczema Specialist about dupixent. Billy one second, grandma. This guy is going to buy my car. Okay . Ask your Eczema Specialist grandma you need carvana. Entering plate number. Grandma no accidents, right . Billy no. Grandma generating offer. Carvana can pick it up tomorrow billy thats an amazing offer. 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With 60 years of clinical experience, its the number one doctor recommended brand for Ear Ringing. And now im finally free. Take back control with lipo flavonoid. Hi, i am Richard Lui with a news update. More than 220 people have died in the aftermath of hurricane helene, and half 1 Million are still without power. Aid is trickling into north and West Carolina more homes are destroyed and Essential Supplies like Drinking Water can only be brought in by helicopter. Saturday, Vice President Kamala Harris will see the damage firsthand. Friday, she stopped in flint, michigan, the community poisoned in 2014 by lead in the Drinking Water. There, she made her case for access to clean air and water. For now, back to dateline. Dateline. Fought hard too, for a new law that might help catch her Daughters Killer and maybe save other lives, as well. Jayann sepich i just believe that had this been on the books this law been on the books say, 10 years ago, Katies Killer might have already been convicted, and she would be alive today. Josh mankiewicz in february 2006, the New Mexico State Legislature voted on the sepichs proposed bill. It ended up being passed with only five no votes. So you must have done something right. Jayann sepich well, i believe in it. I know that its right. And i did a lot of research and One By one, changed some minds and hearts. Josh mankiewicz it became known as Katies Law, mandating that Law Enforcement collect Dna Right at the time of arrest for a violent crime, instead of waiting the years it might take to secure a conviction. Caraline sepich it was really inspiring to see that we could make a difference. And we were just really grateful that it happened because we had so much hope that it would lead to a match for Katies Case, and that it would help countless other families. Josh mankiewicz how has the fight to change the law changed your mom . Its its made her into a warrior. Thats for damn sure. And so that changed kind of not only how i view my mother, but also, in a big way, how i dealt with it myself. Josh mankiewicz and perhaps, this Newfound Mission was also helping Jayann And Dave deliver on a Promise Theyd made to each other early on, to keep their family together. Aj sepich they were keeping up a lot of their strength through fighting and through the case. And that was something that i think was probably, the only thing, at that point in time, that was really breathing life into them. They bonded together as a family. They made up their minds that they were going to do whatever they could to make sure this didnt happen to anybody elses kid. And if they could take that tragedy and turn it into so much good, then we couldnt give up. Josh mankiewicz while jayann found a purpose in pushing for Katies Law, dave remained consumed by something else, Finding Out who killed his daughter. Dave sepich i couldnt quit thinking about it. I couldnt sleep. At work, id find myself on the computer looking at things. And looking at maps and trying to figure out, well, where katie walked, and who else would have been in that area . He wanted justice. He wanted vengeance. He basically wanted to know that whoever did this to katie was going to receive what was coming to them. I get the feeling, he was working at least as hard as the police on this. Aj sepich oh, if not harder. He was living and breathing every single moment of every single day. Josh mankiewicz over the years, they tried everything. Doubled the Reward Money to 100,000. They even hired a famous psychic. She told us that he would be caught, it would be through dna, and it would be shortly before christmas. Josh mankiewicz so many paths had led nowhere. Well, i had made the decision that it was very possible we would never know. And that i had to accept that and move on. And that took a lot of work to come to that because i wanted answers. I really wanted answers. Josh mankiewicz Tracy Waters felt the same way. I really started to believe, we would never know. That this person would have gotten away with this and is potentially, hurting so many more people. Because someone that could do what i saw done to her, could hurt other people. Josh Mankiewicz Myers says he believed in his heart that one day, hed be able to deliver the news that Katies Family and friends craved. I never gave up hope because we had such good evidence. Eventually, this guy is going to reoffend, and then hes going to get swabbed, and then hes going to get caught. Exactly. Thats what the hope was. It didnt make it any less frustrating, but it was thats what you held on to. Josh mankiewicz Katies Killer was out there somewhere. Myers believed he would strike again. Little did investigators know, he already had. Coming up [screaming] two young women in a frantic, frightening ordeal. I jolted out of bed, and i just ran down the hallway to anelas bedroom. Somehow, i just knew he was in the house. I can see like a silhouette. And moments later, hes rattling the door. Josh mankiewicz would they hold the key to solving Katies Case . When dateline continues. In the years following Katie Sepichs murder, investigators chased one dead End Lead after another. Never knowing, the killer had already revealed himself. [screaming] man maam. Josh mankiewicz remember that frantic 911 call you heard at the beginning of our story . [screaming] man maam. Maam. Josh mankiewicz the two women had locked themselves in the bathroom after an intruder broke into their Las Cruces apartment in november 2003. It may sound strange, but these women were lucky. Man are you guys ok . Josh mankiewicz they survived. Man anela . Josh mankiewicz Meet Anela and leslie, the College Roommates on that 911 call. Tell me about the place you guys decided to live in. A cute little apartment. Single story. Two bedroom. Two bath. Yeah, it was really close to campus, so. You felt safe there . Yeah. Josh mankiewicz that was until they saw someone watching. We saw him in front of what was my window. And he quickly kind of glanced at us and then leslie took off. Anela took off. Josh mankiewicz hes looking into your window. Mmhmm. Josh mankiewicz scary. Very scary. Josh mankiewicz a couple of weeks later, Leslie Saw the man again, crouching below their window, peeking inside. And it continued that way for a while. Even when they couldnt see him, they knew he was there. We often heard him like, bumping into the walls. Rubbing up against the bushes. Going over The Rocks. So we heard him almost more than we saw him. Josh mankiewicz no question, it was the same guy. Not in our mind. Yeah. Josh mankiewicz and hes what . Circling your apartment . Yeah, like we couldnt ever really tell what he was doing. Leslie no. And we werent going to go out check. We had like a little backyard that was gated, and we would find our gate to be open. Wed close it. Wed put a Little Rock just to make sure that nobody was coming in and going. And most of the times, the gate was open or The Rock was moved. It felt sporadic at first, and then it got more and more consistent. I mean, this meets every definition of stalking. Mmhmm. Josh mankiewicz so they changed their routines. Anela even took a selfdefense class. They notified the Complexes Security Team and told their neighbors, but nothing ever came of it. And i think there was an aspect that because he never talked to us, he never approached us, that yes, we were frightened, but i think we, also, came to feel that he was just never going to do anything. Like, he was just weird and creepy, but that was the extent of it. And maybe fixated on the two of you, but from a distance. Exactly. Yeah. Well, you were wrong. Yeah. Very wrong. Josh mankiewicz it happened on a rainy night just two and a half months after Katie Sepich was murdered. Leslie did not know what was coming, but she had an uneasy feeling. I was actually talking to my boyfriend, whos now my husband. And i just told him im frightened, im scared. And i asked him if he could just with me until i fell asleep. And so, he did. I was able to fall asleep. Josh mankiewicz sometime later, she suddenly woke up. I dont know if it was a loud noise or i really do feel like somebody was there telling me like, get up and go. Because i jolted out of bed, and i just ran down the hallway to anelas bedroom. Somehow, i just knew he was in the house. Josh Mankiewicz Anela was in her bedroom. She saw leslie coming her way. Anela i see where the hallway bends, i can see like a silhouette there in the corner. And she comes in. I close the door. I lock it. And moments later, hes rattling the door. You saw him in the house. I saw him in the house. Josh mankiewicz then, he left, or he seemed to, but it wasnt over. We hear him go around the house and start doing something at our window. And so, to us, we feel like hes trying to get into the window. So then we go into my bathroom, lock that door, and then i called 911. Anela On Recording i think someones trying to break into our house. I was like, he picked the wrong girl. Like, he is going to die tonight. I just was like, i am not a victim. This is not going to be happening. Man anela . Anela . Anela On Recording crying im here. Man is the officer there . Anela On Recording i dont know. Man you dont know. Is somebody inside the bathroom . Anela On Recording please help me. Josh mankiewicz they locked themselves in the bathroom and stayed on the phone. Man Anela Anela On Recording uhhuh. Man i need you to calm down, ok . Anela. Josh mankiewicz and after three terrifying Minutes Man go ahead and step out of the bathroom. I have officers there. Ok . Anela On Recording i can step out are you sure . Man yes, im sure, leslie, ok . [sirens] Josh Mankiewicz Las Cruces pd showed up and arrested the suspect. He had a knife on him. Theres no telling what would have happened that night. But the idea that the two of you could have ended up raped and murdered is clearly, not outside the realm of possibility here. Everything was so so precise in our favor. Yeah, very lucky. And to think that, you know, some victims, its just, a whole different story. Some people are on the losing side of those same odds. Yeah. Josh Mankiewicz 23yearold Gabriel Avila was convicted several months later of aggravated burglary and resisting arrest. He faced a nineyear sentence. But for some unknown reason that baffles me to this day, the judge let him out on bond. On bond to get his affairs in order. And . Mark myers and he absconded, of course. Just doesnt make any sense to me. I mean, he was convicted of some pretty heinous crimes. Josh mankiewicz No One knew it then, but Gabriel Avilas Burglary Conviction held the key to solving Katie Sepichs murder. First, though, investigators needed to find him because avila was somewhere in the wind. Coming up it looks like we have the person who killed our daughter. Josh mankiewicz the revelation that stunned everyone. He wasnt in any of your files. None of our files. Name never came up. Never ran across him at all. Josh mankiewicz Katies Killer captured at last to really stare evil in the face like that and confront it one on one. You had him. Yeah. Josh mankiewicz when dateline continues. Herbal essences is a force of nature. Made with supercharged botanical blends, our sulfatefree formulas deeply penetrate to boost hair health. Without the salon naturals price tag. Herbal essences. Dangerous ladders. Gutter muck. Yuck. 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So you dont have to compromise. Powering smarter savings. Powering possibilities. Switch to comcast Busines Internet and mobie and find out how to get te latest 5g Phone on s with a qualifying tradei. Dont wait call, click or visit an xfinity store today. Gabriel avila was on the run, until suddenly, he wasnt after more than a year as a fugitive. Thanks to a tip, avila was finally recaptured in 2005 and sent to prison to serve his nineyear sentence. It was in prison that avilas dna was finally taken. Still, processing dna is far more cumbersome than tv dramas would lead you to believe. It took about a year for detective myers to receive the news hed been waiting a long time to hear. It was a friend at the Sheriffs Department who called him. Hes like, hey, we got a hit. And how soon can you come over to the office . I said ill be right there. Josh mankiewicz the sepiches got the call, too. He said, i have some really good news for you. Weve got a match. And i was just stunned. Josh mankiewicz after three years of bad hunches and blind alleys, dna had identified Katie Sepichs killer. You ever hear the name Gabriel Avila before that . Wed never heard if before. He wasnt in any of your files. None of our files. Name never came up. Never ran across him at all. It was amazing. I mean, when they told us, we thought for sure that if we ever found out, that it would be somebody connected somehow. And this was crazy. And it wasnt. No. Josh mankiewicz a sense of relief for tracy. This Wasnt Somebody Youd stood next to at a bar or in a photograph. No. I was so happy for her in that. Because for someone that you know to hurt you has to be infinitely painful. So her last thoughts were not ones of betrayal. Not a feeling of betrayal. Josh Mankiewicz Myers went to interview avilas exwife, who had divorced him after his conviction. Remember those Tire Tracks investigators had spent so long trying to identify . The ones they thought came from a Pickup Truck . We asked her about the truck. She told us that it was sold and told us who they sold it to. And so from there, we found the truck. Josh mankiewicz the tires had been swapped. Eventually, investigators located the originals and matched them to the tracks found at the landfill. Avilas ex also told detective Myers Something else. She said that when she was cleaning out the truck to make it presentable, that in the center console, she found a ring. And she said she tried it on, and it didnt fit her. And so she figured, he bought it for somebody else or he stole it. Josh mankiewicz it was not the ring Katies Boyfriend joe had given her. However, it was another Ring Katie had been wearing that same night. Now, myers had more than he needed. Mark myers how are you doing, man . My name is Mark Myers. Josh mankiewicz he went to speak with avila in prison. Mark myers now, specifically, what were looking into is a homicide that occurred in august of 2003. Did you ever know a girl named Katie Sepich . Josh mankiewicz the didnt do it. Then, myers revealed he had Dna Evidence linking avila to Katies Murder. And he had katies ring. Mark myers he slumped down in his chair. And he just he gave up at that point and told us what happened. Josh mankiewicz it was, in The End, the most random of encounters. Two lives colliding in the middle of the night. Mark myers he said he was up in the neighborhood buying coke. And as he was leaving the neighborhood to go home that he saw katie walking walking across The Street. Gabriel avila she was very drunk. And i yelled at her, do you need help . And she was like, no. Im not sure. I live a couple of blocks down here. I told her, i think you need a ride. I can give you a ride. She said, no, no, thats all right. Josh Mankiewicz Avila said he planned to head home, but then saw katie again in front of her house and observed her without her keys struggling to open a window and get inside. Thats when avila said he struck and raped and strangled katie. And its just a monster in the right place. Crossing paths with the victim. Literally, just a motivated offender crossing paths with a suitable victim at the the right opportunity. She leaves the party five minutes earlier or five minutes later, maybe they never meet. Mark myers five minutes . Probably, 30 seconds. 30 seconds to a minute later, earlier, and hed have never seen her. Josh mankiewicz more than three years after Katies Murder, the sepiches finally had that elusive answer. Today, we are rejoicing that it looks like we have the person who killed our daughter. Were so incredibly grateful for all of the hard work. Josh mankiewicz grateful, yes, but still faced with this harsh reality, avilas arrest for breaking into the apartment didnt come until after Katies Murder. So Katies Law wouldnt have saved katie. Even so, it could have provided answers a lot faster. Jayann sepich it would have identified her killer sooner, but it wouldnt have saved her. Josh mankiewicz during the investigation, a psychic had told Jayann And Dave, Katies Killer would be caught right before christmas. Of course, she didnt say what year. Yeah. So christmas came and went and we thought, well, that was wrong. Josh mankiewicz it turned out, maybe the psychic was correct. The day after christmas, on what would have been katies 26th birthday, Gabriel Avila was charged with murder and kidnapping. Da Susana Martinez prosecuted the case. She was later elected governor of New Mexico. Susana martinez we didnt drop a single charge. There was no Plea Bargaining in this case before. You had him. Susana martinez yeah. And there was no way i could lose the trial. And he knew it, and so he pled straight up. A life sentence, and he will die in prison, where he should. Josh mankiewicz the sepiches were at the sentencing, of course. Aj had waited for this moment, to look his Sisters Killer in the eye and tell avila how hed stolen ajs best friend, his protector. Being able to really stare evil in the face like that and address it and confront it one on one, it was cathartic. It was a target for all that pent up Rage And Anger and hurt. It was giving it a place to land. And so after that, its almost like i had some thing external to take away that pain that had been festering for the three years prior. Josh mankiewicz after the hearing was over, something surprising happened. Avila requested to speak with the sepiches to apologize. It was relieving to me when he apologized. And he said, i dont know why. He said it was just something i did. And he said if i ever had the chance to undo it, i would. And so, in a way, we saw remorse, which kind of helped make it easier. You forgive him . Jayann sepich i have. I dont want him out of prison. I dont want him to ever to be able to hurt anyone else. But i do believe that im supposed to forgive, and i want him to have salvation. Because then god wins. Josh mankiewicz the sepiches have spent more than a decade championing Katies Law across the country. What initially began as a vehicle to help catch Katies Killer, turned out to be much more than that. It became bigger. It became know all the other lives that could be saved. All the other rapes that wouldnt be committed. Josh mankiewicz and youll never know who those people are. No, no, but we know theyre there. We know that for certain. Its hard to not know who they are. And you know, i always tell jayann, its like, in a lot of ways, i cant wait to get to heaven, so i can find out who they were and what the circumstances were and you find out what we actually accomplished. But were just going to keep after it. Are you ok with your sister being remembered for Katies Law . Aj sepich now, i am. In the beginning, i wasnt. I wanted people to remember her, you know, as katie. But then it dawned on me that katie knew a lot of people. But katie as you know the figurehead of Katies Law is going to impact millions, rather than just maybe a couple thousand people that she knew personally. Shes being known to tons of people out there as kind of a savior. And so that, to me, is its eternal. [cheering] Josh Mankiewicz Katie Sepich told her parents, she wanted to change The World. In The End, her whole family did. Thats what he was trying to do, was protect his family. Thats all he ever wanted to do. Even when the man was dying, thats what he was doing. Josh mankiewicz a quiet Family Night at home shattered by intruders. The gun was like right here. Josh mankiewicz a devoted Father And Husband dead