Transcripts For MSNBC The Beat With Ari Melber 20241003

Us into your home. Big news day. Thank you. Welcome to The Beat. We are tracking the story which is disgusting. We have braeging news on this federal case against Donald Trump which he is still slated to go on trial for. This is a newly unsealed 165page filing. This is from Jack Smith. The reason its a big deal, we knew there was a trial coming slated for after the election. We knew smith had narrowed aspects of this case in response to the supreme Court Ruling on immunity but what we didnt know is the new evidence against defendant trump. There are still some redactions in this for various reasons but there is new information in the filing at the kind of Top End of valuable information that we knew existed but did not have until today are those secret, private conversation that is occurred between then President Trump and Mike Pence. So we have new evidence about their secret meetings. All of which were at the behest of Donald Trump and some of which we knew but are learning more details about the illicit attention there. Now this is a Christmas Daikon ver sags im going to show you between trump and pence. The portrait being painted here comes from everything Jack Smith collected including pences public book. On December 25th when pence called trump to wish him a merry christmas, told pence he had diskrepgs of his role, you know i dont have the authority to change the outcome. Trump responds about this. Remember when he learned Mike Pence had to be evacuated that day as things went off the rails, trump reportedly said so what. When Pence Wouldnt go forward with the plot to steal the election with various pretext, trump threatened pence saying he would criticize him publicly. Im going to have to say you did a great disservice. Smith is using this as evidence for what later became a coup case. But also put pence in danger hence his secret Service Detail was alerted over that very item and Jack Smith also shows pence trying to short of deal with trump in those weeks after the election. November 12th, pence telling trump at a private lunch you dont have to concede, but you have to recognize the process is over. Then that was from Jack Smiths evidence, wherever that comes from. Basically said you took a dying political party, gave it a new lease of life. December 21st, pence encouraging trump not to look at the election as a loss but more of an intermission. This is now criminal evidence. Theres also the Post Election period. Those being tabulated. A campaign employee. This goes to again the Plots Trump unleashed. He didnt do it all himself. Ive shown you before how these plots sort of me tas size in the new material filing, a Trump Campaign Aide basically encouraging unrest of violence suggesting there was about to be Unrest Reminiscent of the Brooks Brothers riot. In other words, he wanted to hold on to power separate of the outcome of the election. This is damning evidence when youre trying to show he defrauded the united states. You may recall smith took a specific strategy. The people you see on your screen were not all charged. The Black Box is for a person who has been removed from ruling. Basically that one of those plots might be enough of an official act that it is now out of the case. Theres a new case we can show you today. Trump Lawyer Bob is Coconspirator Number six and that was the last person who had not been identified. So this filing unsealed basically outlines the tactics and Methods Trump was using. Not only to confuse or to lie to people and again, politicians may lie in public without it being a crime, but to turn it into a larger blueprint and thats another important point to make. We were going through the legal evidence with you now and ive got guests on hand for that. But were also looking at a blueprint. It failed once, president Elect Biden was sworn in. You know that, but that doesnt mean they havent tried to improve upon it. In other words, some people broke with trump over January 6th in the Republican Party. Even in his own staff. I have more on that tonight. Other people looked at this and said oh, maybe the Republican Party doesnt need to win elections at all. They can just hold this off differently this time. Thats why Todays Evidence which we didnt know wed have at this moment, connects with something we didnt know wed have from Last Night where Walz And Vance in a debate partly discussing the past zeroed in on something about the future. If Jd Vance, the Running Mate seeking your vote, seeking power, cannot still as of Last Night, acknowledge who won the last election and how this all worked, why would you trust him this time . Vance, unavailable to acknowledge the Fact Trump lost. This was a threat to our democracy in a way we had not seen and it manifested itself. He is still saying he didnt lose the election. Did he lose the 2020 election . Tim, im focused on the future. Did Kamala Harris Sensor americans from speaking their mind in the wake of the 2020 covid situation . This is a damning non answer. About an issue that is front and center as the person at the top of the ticket awaits trial. Were joined by Nick Aker Man and david corn. David, what do you see as new or significant here . Theres a lot of new evidence that you put forward a moment ago but to me, its like the big picture. Look at what the Supreme Court did to help Donald Trump. By saying he had immunity and getting involved in this case at that level. They postponed it and imagine if this was a trial going on now. If all this information was coming out in a court in which trump had to be there. We see again and fwen in this Filing And Weve seen it in the past. Donald trump was repeatedly told that the issues that he was raising about fraud, about dead voters, non registered voters was all bs and he kept repeating. He was being told this by his own campaign lawyers. His own advisers and yet he just kept pushing this along. Thats the thing this new filing shows us. The creation of the Big Lie and Donald Trumps utter disregard for the truth. Its just a multiple you know, strata of conspiracy based on wide ranging defeat. The court did him a big favor by making sure this wouldnt get a trial before the election. We may never get a trial, but again reminds us of all the details. All the various ways he plotted with others to overturn the election and it was all based on lies. Yeah, nick, as a prosecutor whos dealt with government cases, what do you see here . This is a very detailed response to the Supreme Court. For example, with Mike Pence, there was the issue about whether or in the he would put in the fake electors. The supreme Court Kind of viewed that and just in a sort of by itself and wanted to know what were the circumstances surrounding this. And what struck me in reading through this is that right from the beginning, right after they lost the election, there was discussion about the fact that trump wanted to basically take the position that he won the election and it was all based on fraud. Does it matter the Special Counsel trails up to trump and he was aware of the Elector Plot and these other things and cant according to Jack Smith, say i guess i had some overzealous aides out in in states. Absolutely not. If theres one takeaway from all of this, in every single little episode thats laid out here on all 165 pages, what youre seeing is evidence of Donald Trumps knowledge knowing that he was lying. Knowing that he lost and basically doing things that hurt a lot of people including the two women in georgia, the election workers. Rusty bowers, who is also mentioned in here. Whats hard at this point because it just came out is trying to separate out what we already knew from what we hadnt heard about before. Clearly, the Pence Stuff is new. Theres some things in there. Some other emails that are new that really show Donald Trumps knowledge. We also know that mcdaniels, theres new information about what they learned from her probably in the Grand Jury thats in there that has to do directly with Donald Trump and her telling Donald Trump that there was no way he could win michigan. It was gone. So this is really a powerful piece of a filing that unfortunately for Donald Trump has come just days before the election that has brought the motion in the first place and its finally going to catch up with him. David, im curious what you think about the fact that they tried really hard but it didnt work. And thats something theyve, to invoke as an advantage. Vance Last Night, after the violence, there was a period of nonviolence and after the failed coup, there was a period of transition of power. Sure. Everybody knows that. But if o. J. Simpson says after he killed two people, he was very nonviolent the next day, thats not a good legal defense but it might cloud it in the court of public opinion. Im curious what you think about that with the fraudulent Electors Plot because they clearly knew at the time it was illicit or illegal. Reading from the unsealed filing, as late as early january, these Cospon Spir tors attempted to keep the full nature secret. Careful with your text. No reason to text things about electors to anyone but another and me and im probably being paranoid, ha ha. Showing even amidst the crimes, theres low key text vibes. Im curious how you think of that not only legally, but for the country. Because someone watching the debate Last Night might have been superficially drawn to the argument that we did have a transfer of power. Of course, it only came after the violence. Im glad you brought that text up because that caught my attention, too. Remember, these are lawyers doing this. Theyre plotting. They know theyre breaking the law. They suspect theyre breaking the law. They want to keep it quiet. This is all corruption flowing from Donald Trump and again, the level of detail, the amount of effort that i put into this. Jack smith lays out three different conspiracies. The first to claim fraud and try to fight in the courts failed then trying to go after the Voting Machines with crazy Conspiracy Theories then finally the Elector Plot. So they kept trying again and again and then it led to the Riot And Vance was disengeneral Last Night. You dont get crede for leaving office after you lose. It just showed the amount of energy that Donald Trump and others put into this. You would have to assume that their natures, their souls have not changed in the last four years and therefore, be worried about what theyre going to do this time, particularly with the knowledge they have and they gained and learned from what they did and failed with less time. We have a lot more on it tonight in this program. I should mention a programming note. Rachel, chris, and lawrence doing a special as part of a Special Edition of all in tonight. Its a big News Night. The other thing that comes through in this and were going to get into this with some very special guests is that none of this is over. The case takes time building a case takes sometimes months or years and then holding a trial with the Supreme Court involved can take even longer but this is all about whats happening now as we are weeks away from an election where one side has a leader, Donald Trump, and some aides around him who say they are still Hell Bent on getting power whether they win the election or not. So we are going to take a look next at Donald Trumps conspiracies, criminality, the campaign, and why it matters for 2024. I have that breakdown and more on this filing next. Eakdown ande on ts hifiling next. When i think about purpose, i dont know if st. Jude donors realize the magnitude of what they are doing. Their donations are funding the research. The research is allowing for the treatments to happen. And those treatments provide cures. And the cures are allowing patients to get to grow up and live amazing lives all around the world. Our right to reproductive Health Care is being stolen from us. I cant believe this is the world we live in, where were losing the freedom to control our own bodies. We need your support now more than ever. Go online, call, or scan this code, with your 19 monthly gift. And well send you this care. No matter what tshirt. It is your right to have safe Health Care. Thats it. Go online, call, or scan right now. Hey, scott. 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Because one bite can unite all parties, at least for dinner. The Filing Today puts the spotlight back on Donald Trumps failed coup and how its put heat on so many aides and allies for what they witnessed or refused to do for him or did for him. Pence became a Witness And Target of that mob for opposing the Coup Plan while well over 50 trump aides or allies had become official government witnesses on probes ranging from the Ukraine Plot to the Mueller Probe to several January 6th investigations. Many cooperated with those investigations. Some resisted. Others found themselves disbarred or convicted of crimes on behalf Of Trump. The image itself there is a partial accounting. Trumps two campaigns and businesses, partly criminal operations in addition to those government issues. This is the highest rate of criminality of any first term in history and we are in a general election right now that is a tight race by most accounts so it is worth the nation facing history of Donald Trumps first term and many charges came after trump left office because the law moves slowly. If i knew then what i know now, i would have defined to represent Donald Trump in these Post Election challenges. I look back on this whole experience with deep remorse. In the list i mentioned do not count the many other reasons some Of Trumps own aides have criticized him for his work, for how he handled the job or broken with him or opposed his current campaign. They dont think he should be president again. Its a point that as part of the debate, Vice President made it at the debate. If you want to really know The Inside Track On who the former president is, just ask people who have worked with him. His former Chief Of Staff says he has contempt for the constitution of the united states. His former national Security Adviser said he has dangerous and unfit. His former Secretary Of Defense has said the nation, the republic, would never survive another Trump Term. They did say that. A pretty damning account from people who saw President Trump in rooms where most people never get to go. In a position to see how he really handled his big, important, president ial powers. And some who testified in clashes that really became a regular ritual. The former president just met with Ukraines Leader this week. They discussed the war. In office, remember, then President Trump was caught trying to abuse power over that country to get a Kwid Proquo Attack on Joe Biden. Something confirmed under oath, he became the Star Witness in that impeachment trial. I think gordons on this testimony today changed everything. I testified because i was lawfully subpoenaed and i believe i have to respect a lawful subpoena. My goal was to tell the truth. It was not to help President Trump and it was not to hurt President Trump. I spoke by phone with President Trump. I think we primarily discussed asap rocky. Was there a Kwid Quo . As i testified previously with the White House meeting, the answer is yes. Now, that scandal was one of many by the time of the insurrection, there were trump vets as well as aides at the White House who then broke with him on principle. If you remember what it was like back then became national news because Of Trumps long record of seeming to draw a kind of strong initial loyalty from people then later outrage sometimes from the same people. Resignations due to yesterdays events. Sarah matthews, the white House Deputy Press secretary. Sarah matthews. And the lifelong republican and i joined the Trump Reelection Campaign in june of 2019. Sarah matthews whos the former Deputy Press Secretary in the Trump Administration was there on January 6th. Under oath and will be in the spotlight. A colleague suggested that the President Shouldnt condemn the violence because they thought it would be Quote Handing A Win to the media. If he were to condemn his supporters. And i disagreed. So i motioned up at the tv and i said do you think it looks like were fing winning because i dont think it does. Do you remember where you were watching some of those important hearings . This is all relevant to the choice the country is making now. Some people already voting in early states. Everyone will vote soon. Who chooses too and that was a line from miss matthews where some aides saw a line, others joined Donald Trump in pushing well past it. Take someone youre probably familiar with. Trump White House vet, peter navarro. He participated in the congressional part of the January 6th plan and refusing to testify about what he did in office, he later ended up in federal prison. We had over 100 congressmen and senators on Capitol Hill ready to implement the sweep. Do you realize you are describing a coup . No. They put me in handcuffs. They bring me here. Put me in leg irons. What they did to me today violated the constitution. Peter navarro was sentenced to four months in prison. Peter navarro, now in prison tonight. Im pissed. If they can come for me, if they can come for Donald Trump, careful. They will come for you. I am your wake up call. Mr. Navarro seen on the main stage at the rnc. A Speaking Slot most members of congress dont get. Some of the other witnesses shows you something about what it means to work for Donald Trump. And in a world where ive told you this before. Sometimes people are talking past each other. At each other and in their own separate silos. It is our job i think in journalism but also hopefully on our best days as citizens, to come together, listen to each other so we might learn and go forward a little more informed than where we started. With that in mind, were trying to do Something Special on The Beat and if you stay with me, youll get to see it because peter navarro, Gordon Sondland and Sarah Matthews are all here. Well be back together in 90 seconds. Here. Well be back Togethern I90 seconds. Your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel. Nothing beats it. I recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. I think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients. Try pronamel mouthwash. Vo Vote Cheddar Bay 2024. Because when red lobsters biscuits rise,ients. America thrives. So come in now for a chance to win four years of free red lobster. Because one bite can unite all parties, at least for dinner. What happened in 2020 and january of 2021, in many ways, they can look at it as a Practice Run and know what it would take to unravel the foundations of our republic. A warning there from a republican, Liz Cheney who led the Jan 6 committee. That was her dividing line. We are joined for a special conversation with three witnesses. Peter navarro, author of the new maga deal, Gordon Sondland. Thanks to each of you for being here. I appreciate you doing the conversation. Im not aware of any panel like this. Im going to start with a couple quick questions then well broaden out. So in a sentence, if you could oblige me, for each of you, youve worked for Donald Trump. Did It Help or hurt your life . Just a fact check. I was convicted for simply refusing to testify before congress. Yep. Because it was my judgment by the constitutional separation of powers, i shouldnt go there. Well get to that. You implicated me in some kind of crime with Donald Trump. I simply took a principled position. Im glad i did that and if my case as it reaches the Supreme Court establishes the rules about Executive Privilege and the constitution of separation of powers, it was well worth it. Frds i created a lot of jobs two years before that and couldnt be more proud of serving this country. Im sure Peters Pride in serving my country and to answer your question directly, It Helped my life because i now have a platform for which to make my views which i believe are representative of most americans known where i would have been you know whistling in a dark tunnel otherwise. So it was a net benefit. I would agree with that as well. I think its an honor to get to work at the White House and for any president. Donald trump might have been the more difficult president to do communications for but i think that made me a better communicator and better at my job moving forward. I think my decision to resign on January 6th certainly hurt my career in terms of being able to work for republicans moving forward. But i do think that as the ambassador mentioned, it gave me this platform now to be able to express the views of what i think is middle america and where a lot of americans are and they dont want to be on the far right or the far left and so i try to bring some common sense now to my interviews when i do them. Most posht important thing you learned about Donald Trump. Hes a master communicator, plays three dimensional chess. I think Last Night at the debate what Jd Vance did was to emphasize that four years, ari, we had safe, secure, and prosperous times. China, north korea, russia, iran were all quiet because of his leadership. And you know as well as everybody on this panel that it was a very unusual style but it worked. And what we have now it was unusual. I said one sentence. Im going to try to do this and then more time. Chaos is what we have now. I was a witness to a real interesting show. There was the Donald Trump 101 where i found him to be rational, decisive, thoughtful. He asked great questions. And made quick decisions. And did not look back once he made those decisions. And that same person then would go out in front of a large audience and you would see the Donald Trump show which we dont have to rehash. So it was two different people. You learned that in working for him that there was a different character behind the scenes. And the behind the Scenes Character as im sure peter would agree, was highly effective. Did he always make the right decisions . No. But no one does. I think loyalty is a one Way Street with Donald Trump. He demands it from everyone but gives it to no one. In his decision making process, its oftentimes what benefits him. I dont think that makes him fit to be president because he should be thinking about what benefits the american people. The last one this way. So sarah. This is a simple one. Came up at the debate. Do you acknowledge that Trump Lost the 2020 election . I think that my testimony in front of the January 6th committee made it abundantly clear that i knew Donald Trump lost the 2020 on Election Night and that i grew increasingly uncomfortable with his actions leading up until January 6th and i think that hes unqualified to ever be president again because of his refusal to still to this day acknowledge that he lost. Ambassador. Were there Voting Irregularities . Yes. Did they make a difference at the end of the day . Sadly, no. Donald Trump Lost the election. I wish he hadnt. I stand by the navarro report, the three volume report. Peternavarro. Com, please read it. I think there are things that need yet to be investigated. It took 30 years for us to acknowledge that kennedy stole the election from nixon. I think historians. You dont acknowledge. You dont acknowledge that Trump Lost. I stand by the report. I think theres great uncertainty. For whatever you can say, half the american people or many believe there were irregularities. Were dealing in facts, not that. I presented three volumes of facts. Georgia, arizona, nevada, michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin and i can show you every different state. Can i actually interject . Yeah. Ive looked at this report and one of the things he cites is he says trump was up in certain states on Election Night and then in the morning, that changed. I think that we need to acknowledge that in states that he mentioned, pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, mailin ballots are not able to be counted before election day. So no wonder Donald Trump was up on Election Night because all of those ballots that would favor Joe Biden were not yet counted. And so thats the kind of stuff thats in this report. Thats a fact check. Youre just wrong on that. What i looked at were things like no signature matching georgia after 2016. And it went from a 6 rejection of ballots because the Signature Max for 2016 to zero. And if you just simply do the numbers on that, theres endless possibilities. Im going to bring in the filing. I want to talk about instead of hindsight, i want to talk about if the democrats are able to impose their desired program over the next several years, there will be massive Voting Irregularities. Peter, we got a new filing thats unsealed and you got out of prison. You can tell us about that if you choose to. Steve bannon is in prison right now. Fact check. You both refused a lawful subpoena and the Court Process. Based on the constitution. Yes, but the Court Process resulted in these Prison Sentences. That is release pending appeal and you know that as well as i do. Thats separate from the underlying coup case. I want to play, im going to let you respond, but i want to play the bannon podcast, which youve worked on. Its cited as evidence that Donald Trump through this plot was trying to illegally overthrow the election. They cite some of this sound which were now going to play. The Vice President s got a lot of power and thats very important to recognize. Are we to assume this is going to be a climactic battle thats going to take place this week about the very question of the constitutionality of the electoral Count Act of 1877. I think that depends on the Courage And Spine of the individuals involved. Vice president Mike Pence . Yes. This is criminal evidence. Im going to let you respond. This is criminal evidence newly unsealed in the case against Donald Trump. If he loses the election, this trial will proceed. Your report is mentioned on page 136 as an example of what they call deliberate and fraudulent efforts to lie about the election. So i will give you some time right now having gone through your Prison Sentence on the subpoena and looking at this filing, dont you understand that much of this material has been disadvantaged to Donald Trump as a defendant and could be part of what gets him in trouble . Well see what the jury says if theres a trial. Theres a couple of things. First of all, this is Election Interference pure and simple. This drops 30 days out from election day. When it never should have come before. Dont you think the american people deserve to hear this . Ill go to peter then sarah. This is simply Election Interference. Whats interesting about this as an issue now, this is interesting. Cross tabs from a Poll Show that Msnbc Viewers see the two top issues as Democracy Threats. For fox, its immigration at 49 , inflation at 42 , and for the general election, this Democracy Threat is at 6 . Which is to say that i get it why you want to talk a lot about this. But the last thing i want to make a point on. The electoral map of 1887 was used in 2000 in the Gore And Bush by the democrats and the next one by the democrats. Kerry used it. Clinton used it. Thats all that was going on with trump. Sarah, go ahead. So i think thats going to be the common argument from supporters Of Trump and republicans on The Hill probably is going to be that this is Election Interference but my counterargument to that is shouldnt the voters in the 2024 election know if one of the candidates on the ballot tried to overthrow the 2020 election . I think that they deserve to have these facts presented to them. Its a shame that this wont go to trial beforehand. I wish there had been more time on the calendar. Theres a lot of people you can blame for that, whether its Merrick Garland dragging his feet or maybe the senate should have voted to convict Donald Trump. Ambassador, people remember you as a star featured witness. You got a its much adieu about nothing, ari. You said at the time, you confirmed. As i said to peter a moment ago, i had one this morning. I went to starbucks and i gave them my American Express card and they gave me a cup of coffee. Its different because you were at the center of that and after January 6th, we saw what miss matthews did. Lets listen to where you drew a line in the sand. Even with all of the foibles that everyone has identified and i know we could go through them again until January 6th. It was a no for me after that. Why was it important for you to say no more trump because of this January 6 . Do you stand by that . No. Ill tell you why. Ive lived four years under the Biden Harris policies and i have to say those policies are not only becoming an existential threat to our Countrys Way of life, but to our allies as well. This is striking. You said it was a no for me after that. And here we are right now. I did. And youre saying its a yes. That is how badly the Biden Harris team have prosecuted their job. The whole point you seem to be making was that January 6th and that kind of attack on democracy is bigger. I am seeing so many attacks on democracy that eclipse January 6th. So i want to ask sarah. I appreciate everyone being here. Sarah, im curious your reaction to someone who you, has participated and i say that positively, ambassador. You as a Government Official were asked to testify and you did. Then drew a line at Jan 6 and we see this with certain people. And i say it respectfully, who say that hooerks at the table with you then tell us years later, never mind. Can you explain that and whats your response . Couple of things. First, Kamala Harris, i think we should give her grace. If vance can go from calling Donald Trump hitler to being his Running Mate. The ambassador said hes concerned about protecting our allies. What about ukraine . Donald trump has said we should give parts away to putin and he openly invaded putin to invade some of our nato allies. Those are things that concern me about a second Trump Term that have nothing to do with democracy. Peter, im going to enforce. I dont mute mikes. Sarah, when you look at him and you see and there are other people like him who serve the government. We credit that. Who participated and testified then say no more to January 6th then come back, its almost like a whole wing of the party is vance. How do you explain that and what should voters make of that . I think the difference between us is that im willing to set policy aside in this election. I dont agree with Kamala Harris. On most things but at the end of the day, you know what we can agree on . That we respect the constitution. That i believe she has someone who will uphold it and Donald Trump has shown us he wont. Hes the first president to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. So vance trying to have this revisionist history Last Night at the debate, yeah, that was after 140 Police Officers were beaten at the capitol and rioters were there inspired by these theories that trump said because he couldnt accept the fact he lost to someone he perceives as weak as Joe Biden. So i dont want to put someone like that back in power. This is stunning. Policy doesnt matter. My turn. Thank you. I was about to say that. Policy matters greatly. Because policy translates into our way of life and the Way Or Country operates. What i want to say is what did was not an kpem lair thing. He lost the election. He should have admitted it and moved on and the best victory would have been to Beat Biden at the ballot box, now in this case, harris in 2024. So youre not going to catch me in that group of republicans who deny that a proper election took place even though there were irregularities. I dont believe those votes would have added up to a change in the election. What i want to express is that ive now lived for four years under the Biden Harris administration. I live in a bucolic city of portland, oregon, which has been destroyed by those policies. Absolutely decimated. Businesses are suffering. My own business is suffering solely for political reasons and its all fixable and they dont want to fix it. I have to get in a break because i killed one but the panel stays. We have one break. Our panel continues and we have a special guest. Well be right back on a big News Night. Stay with us. Ht back on a big News Night stay with us when the sawdust settles and the engine finally roars the thing you care about most is a job well done. But when you get your tools from Harbor Freight Something about the job feels a little different your wallet. Because we believe No Matter What youre working on you need high quality tools at a great price. And thats what were all about. Whatever you do, do it for less, at harbor freight. 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Americas at a cross roads. Im a lifelong republican. But that attachment holds second place to my responsibility to my country. Thats why ive chosen to appear at this convention. John kasich, the republican ohio governor, republican president ial candidate who faced off the Donald Trump and who as you saw there endorsed Joe Biden previously joins our governor, thank you for being here. Swooping in. Ive been listening. Youve been listening. Your thoughts as weve heard from these individuals who have to some degree similar experiences working for trump, but some different outcomes at this point as america faces a big choice. Well, theyre all intelligent people. And so, you know, i respect listening to them, hearing what they have to say. As for me, you know, i was not for trump from the very beginning. And the reason, ari, i know that policy matters. Of course it does. But i grew up at a time when Ronald Reagan helped in 1976, is when i was extremely young, trying to help him to get to be president and of course became president. I just saw the reagan movie the other day. You know, he was the kind of leader that brought us together. We live in a time in this country where were so divided, so polarized. And my objection to Donald Trump was the fact that i felt that he is somebody, as a negative populist, who would say the reason why somebody has a problem is because somebody else took something from you and would create deep divisions. And that goes along with what i think is his approach, which is kind of a situational vision. I dont know what hes really going to do. It depends what comes up. And i want to make one thing clear. A lot of people think, you know, i hate Donald Trump or something. I dont. I just dont hes not my guy. Im not going to vote for him. I didnt before. I didnt go to the convention. I did when it was here in ohio. I supported biden. Im very disappointed by what biden has done. But at the same time, im not going to vote for trump because it continues to lead us to division. Moments ago Sara Matthews put it very clearly in contrast to what Jd Vance claimed on the Debate Stage Last Night and to what Ambassador Sondland said and is here and can rebut as well but he spoke out on it. These individuals who say Jan 6 was a breaking point. Our democracy is more important than our other domestic disputes and still walk it back or go back to trump or Jd Vance, rising to prominence as a self declared never trumper and now literally being on the ticket. Do you think voters should take that into account . Does that say something negative about Donald Trump that there is so much transactional sort of political loyalty but so little consistency. I think people are fed up with politics period, ari, on both sides. I dont know who pointed out whether it was gordon or peter, you know, ive got a list here of all the switches that Kamala Harris has had. You know, she was for the new green deal. Now shes not. She was against fracking. Now shes for it. She didnt like the wall, now shes for it. I think in many respects people are tired of this politics. Yeah. People are frustrated the choices we have, whether for trump or harris. I join that crowd. Im frustrated with the choices were facing in this election. As i said, im not going to go for trump. In terms of harris, ive not endorsed her. I look at her economic plans and, look, im a conservative republican. I helped us when we were in the majority in congress. We balanced the budget and grew the economy and as governor i knew exactly what to do to grow the economy in ohio and help people who didnt have much. Those Philosopies Matter to me. Yeah. And now i have 90 seconds. Im going to try a Lightning Round in one sentence for everyone. If trump loses, governor, in one sentence, if trump loses, it will be because hes been too divisive and people dont like that. They want a leader who can be positive. Sara . I would agree. I think that people are sick and tired of Chaos And Division that he would bring and it seems like hes more interested in looking in the past, refusing to acknowledge he lost the 2020 election than looking forward to the future. Thats what i think Kamala Harris candidacy has been bringing is shes all about hope and optimism and actually talking about her plans for the future. Gordon . There was actually four years of relative quiet and economic prosperity. And if he loses it will be because he hasnt prosecuted his case against Kamala Harris the way Jd Vance did so effectively last evening. Peter . Ari, Jd Vance did a beautiful job Last Night doing two things, one, communicing and marrying people who he is. He wanted to close the gap him and walz favorability. Hell get a big bump and he helped Donald Trump on that. The other thing Jd Vance did which is pertinent to your question, making clear we had safe, secure and prosperity and Kamala Harris is a source of chaos. I have disinformation and Election Interference. I have 70 seconds. If he wins, it will be because because the american people care about immigration, inflation and the economy, crime, Foreign Policy and he leads in the polls on that. If he wins, it will be because Americas Standard of living has so perceptibly declined over the past four years. And it was so reasonably good during the preceding four years. I think if he wins its because Joe Biden didnt drop out of the race sooner and didnt give enough runway for Kamala Harris or another candidate and democrats didnt get to really have a fullyfledged primary process. Governor, 20 seconds. Sorry. I think if he wins its because the intensity of his supporters. Theyre going to show up. The question is will the democrats show up. Thats what i think it gets down to. I know that each of you have strongwilled views. Youve all served your country. And i appreciate a thoughtful, big exchange, Civil Discourse on these big topics. Really a special thank you to each of you. As always, thanks to you at home for spending time with us on The Beat as we make sense of this world. That does it for us. Its a big night on msnbc. We have chris hayes, Rachel Maddow and many more and special at 8 00 p. M. Keep it clock, the Morning Joe with Joy Reid is up next. The with Joy Reid is up next medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that youll definitely want to hear. Depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a Humana Medicare Advantage dualeligible Special Needs plan. Most plans include the humana healthy Options Allowance. A monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and overthecounter items. The healthy Options Allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. And whatever you dont spend, carries over from each month. Plus, your doctor, Hospital And Pharmacy may already be part of our large humana networks. So, call the number on your screen now, and ask about a Humana Medicare Advantage dualeligible Special Needs plan. And remember, annual enrollment ends on december 7th. Humana. A more Human Way to healthcare. Your Shipping Manager left to find themself. Leaving you lost. To hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. Sponsored jobs on indeed are two and a half times faster to first hire. Visit indeed. Com hire [uplifting music] Arearn Saint Jude they gave it 110 every time. And for kenadie to get treatment here without having to pay anything was amazing. With Dexcom G7, managing your diabetes just got easier. So, whats your Glucose Number right now . Good thing you dont need to fingerstick. Hows all that food affect your glucose . Oh, the answers on your phone. What if youre heading low at night . [phone beeps] wow, it can alert you . and you can even track your goals. Manage your diabetes with confidence with Dexcom G7. The most accurate cgm. Learn more at dexcom. Com tonight on The Reidout and Mike Pence, i hope youre going to stand up for the good of our constitution and for the good of our countr