All he did to try to bring peace between israeli and palestinians. Happy birthday, president carter. I will see again in a few minutes as a guest on inside with jen psaki, which starts right now. I know it seems like every single day we are talking about some incredibly wild split screen between the two candidates running for president i know it feels that way boy, we got another one today. On one side of the equation donald trump bumbled and lied his way storm damage in court nestor georgia. On the other, kamala harris the things you might hear from president about a tragedy like hurricane helene at fema headquarters in washington. Here is just a sampling of headlines from trump's trip today. Trump makes false claims about federal response as he campaigned in an air ravaged by hurricane helene. Trump falsely says georgia's governor was unable to talk to biden about storm damage. My personal favorite might be, trump says no one could have predicted hurricane at peak of hurricane season. Were definitely going to talk about all of that tonight. We will also preview tomorrow night's vice presidential debate with my friend joy reid. And with the last guide to debate j. D. Vance. Tim ryan, later in the show. I will begin we will begin with some very important context to keep in mind for everything that you will hear and we talk about tonight about the ways in which donald trump is currently trying to smear kamala harris. And that context is this. Kamala harris embarrassed donald trump in front of 70 million people during the debate. What happens, he knows what happened. Everyone knows what happened. You might not agree with everything else think she said or every policy proposal but one thing is fairly disputable by anyone watching she looks smarter and more in command than him in front of the entire country. I mean, much smarter. To steal a phrase of harris' from that debate, he is clearly having a hard time processing all of that. Clearly. In some ways, i think that embarrassment on the debate stage broken in a way. Even before the debate the man was failing, that was clear. He was expecting to run against an over 80yearold joe biden. Instead he ended up with opponent 20 years younger than him. He needed a different strategy. He tried the racism route using kamala harris lying about being black, i guess. That one did not take. No surprise there. He tried the sexism route, reposting some disgusting sausages stick means that we are definitely not going to share on the show. They also did not take. But since the debate, it seems to have gotten much worse. The man is losing it. And he is lashing out. As a part of that, he is kind of wrapped all of this gross attacks into one. Along with the new flat out lie about harris' intelligence. Kamala is mentally impaired when joe biden became mentally impaired. Kamala was born that way. She was born that way. If you think about it only a mentally disabled person could have allowed this to happen to our country. Anyone would know this. I am playing that obviously, it is just disgusting and offensive. It is a schoolyard gross insult. By one estimate there are more than 7 million americans living with an intellectual ordinal mental disability in this country. It is gross and everyone needs to see it. Donald trump should be running to be there president as well. Let me state that. Setting that aside, i'm not sure donald trump is the candidate shumake should make any jobs about mental acuity. You look at the mob pictures, gangster pictures, a drug dealer pictures, these people are far worse. There is no one in hollywood like this. If you want to do a movie and some of these people that you are going to look at in two minutes if you wanted to do a movie, there is no actor in hollywood back at play the role. There is nobody these actors are a little bit shaky. They will bring in a big actor. He has no muscle content. He has got no muscle. We need a little muscle. They bring in another one. He has a weak face. He looks week. These guys have the whole package. I love watching the people behind him. They are awkwardly laughing. Some of them are looking in the other direction. No is really following him, that is clear. Is called trump was crushed by what he previously dismissed as dumb as a rock. Which raises the question, what does that make him? by the way, that is why he is so scared of doing another debate. Of course, all of this is protection for every accusation is a form of a confession. All of this nonsense, this child is lashing out is because of embarrassment, in my view at least. You can see where this goes. The race racism did not work on the sexism did not work on these latest attacks will probably not work either. It just gets crazier and crazier. The question is, what is next? when all of the outrageous attacks fall flat, what does he do next? what is the backup plan when the country sees through all of the bs? we note the backup plan is because we have seen a version of this movie before. Back in 2020, not that long ago. Trump's next step is to prime his base that the election will be rigged. And to go with the election process with itself or try to. He is already trying to do both of these things. His allies are bombarding the courts with lawsuits to do just that. In these six or seven see kate he states where the election will be won or lost. What if it does not work? we have seen that movie before too. Now he is showing is another example of how open to violence he is. These are smart people. They are not so stupid. If you had one really violent day. A guy like mike kelly, put him in charge. Congressman kelly, put him in charge for one day. Would you say, mike, you would say, please do not touch them? let them rub your store. All of the stores go out of business. They do not pay rent. It is a chain of events that is so bad. One rough hour, and i mean real rough. The word will get out and it will end immediately. So, the attacks are not landing. There is a plan b most concerning of all, there is a plan c too. Joining me now here at the table consider attorney george conway, senior national political correspondent for the washing voice, ashley parker. Eugene daniels and senior adviser to the harris/walz campaign, adrian elrod. There is a lot to digest. You may all disagree with me here. You never hold back. I wanted to start with you because you called him a sociopath, a psychopath and all of those things. He continues to demonstrate himself to be. Sometimes we get numb to some of the things he says. It all seems like the same. Is it the same or is he getting worse? he is getting worse. He will not get better. I cannot imagine the next few weeks if he feels that everything is slipping away from him. This is a man, basically, creates his own reality. He is lying about everything. He has talked to the governor of georgia. He lied a few weeks ago about kamala harris' crowd sizes. He said they were all a. I. This is insane stuff. He is not well. He has never been well but he has been worse now because, precisely because, of the narcissistic injury he suffered at the debate when kamala harris wiped the floor with him. You see for the big debate a shift? he does not know how to deal with it. He is being told a lot of things, i am sure. For example, someone must have gone out to maralago, an expert i don't know who that was and say, you are losing and you need to do more to appeal to women. Women want to see the president as a protector. I'm going to be your protector. He gargles everything. He does not follow directions. What i always like to say about him, he can be manipulated but not controlled. He is completely out of control. The people who are working for him, they're going along for the ride. Actually, you have covered trump longer than anyone else at this table. You have probably been to more events. You recently wrote this piece talk about a little bit of what george is talking about there. It includes this line, in donald trump's imaginary world, americans cannot venture out to buy a loaf of bread without getting shot, mugged or raped. Do you feel this is different or darker than 2016 and 2020 or is it going back to the same tactics? yes and no. We can go back to 2015 where trump would be, as i described him, playing on tilt. He is frustrated. He cannot be controlled. It is no longer in this moment postdebate. Let us trump the trump it is let trump be utterly out of control and hope they win anyhow. You can find other moments like this. I was struck by the pervasive darkness. It was not just a risky trip to buy bread but it is the idea that kids as he says, that kids go to school. They leave on the bus and come home gender affirming surgery. Visitors to the nation's capital come to see the monuments and they go home in body bags. Of course, famously, the lie that haitian immigrants are eating cats and dogs in springfield, ohio. It did feel like critical mass for this kind of grotesque caricature that donald trump has been pushing recently pretty consistently. It rallies on social media in interviews. I'm trying to understand for myself. Is it getting worse? is it different from 2016? it feels like it but a lot to digest. The other side of this campaign as you cover, here's quite a bit. You are on the harris campaign. I want to play something that eric holder said yesterday, which stuck with me. He was on our show. Former attorney general. He said what i am betting it there was an anger translator remember that? let us play that and then we will talk about it. I think it is both projection on his part but also an indication of again, that cognitive decline. He does not have the ability to mount a substantive challenge to the person who he is running against. I think that is something that the american people need to take into consideration. Donald trump made a great deal of the cognitive abilities of joe biden. I want to ask you about it because i know adrian cannot speak about the secret things on the campaign. Maybe she can. You talk to a lot of people on the campaign. You are talking about, what do we do about the fact that donald trump seems to be in cohesive he cannot form clear paragraphs. Do you raise it? do you do what he just did or do you run your own race? i think they are running their own race, which is probably the right thing. Are there debates or discussions internally? you have conversation about how trying to run against all trump i think where they live and where we see them go , right or wrong, is that they are going to let him do his thing. I was talking to someone yesterday to show how crazy he is. Vice president harris and as she has been you talk about the split screen with her going to fema and having those remarks and him lying about the governor of georgia cannot get in touch with president biden. The george's governor sang, i talked to him. I think that is where they are sticking. They will let that service to all the messy stuff. Which is probably the best way. You do not want to get into a backandforth with donald trump. The alligator or whatever. He is better at it. He is better at being in the muck and he likes it down there. He is having a hard time running against him and who's not getting in the muck with him. He has a hard time running against vice president harris. She is a black woman. When he would tussle with the women that were asking questions , our colleagues on the right house beat reporters, he held his most angry some for black women. They asked him a question, he would have the worst things to say about them. You are seeing that. When he talked about joe biden got worse, harris was born like that. That is a dogma focus to say, the right guy just got older and worse the lack lady was bore down. That is the kind of thing that donald trump is saying. It does feel it is a different type of attack. Adrian has dealt with working for a female presidential nominee. I have been on three campaigns against donald trump. This is my third. That is a lot. What do you take it? or what two people who work from hillary clinton take from that campaign that they can apply now cure you agree the attacks are different? may feel different. They are obviously racist and have a different hinge to them. When we ran against donald trump in 2015/2016, no one knew what to do with him. He was no other candidate than we had seen before. There is a perception by a lot of voters that he is not going to do the things he said he was going to do when he came into office. When he said he would act the national abortion ban or get rid of roe v. Wade. I certainly believe it could happen but a lot of people did not think he would go forward with that. When he said he would focus on dismantling the affordable care act, the people said, he is just saying that right now to get votes in his coder but he will not do it. But then he did it. He tried to get rid of the affordable care act and he overturned roe v. Wade. 2020 running against president biden. We took the case to the voters. It was an effective strategy because donald trump had something to run on. It was not a popular record. Going forward in 2024, we now know and we make it clearer project 2025, this will be a far worse, a trump 2. 0 would be far worse than a truck 1. 0. We look at the project 25, and they made it clear that not only does one get rid of the affordable care act that they want to raise prices on prescription drugs for american families. They want to make sure there is a national abortion ban. They want to raise taxes by an average of $4000 per family. We just put out this report today to make sure the american people understand what a trump concept of the healthcare plan will look like. We put together over 200 page report laying out what it would look like. Very dangerous, from 2. 0 would not be something of the american people want. Who says she does not have plans ? we will talk about project 2025 and the piece in there that relates to fema , disaster assistance and response. We have to take a very quick a 62nd break. We will be right back and talk more about my donald trump told today in georgia. We will be right back in 60 seconds. . Or crab cracking, you're cashbacking. Cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. Nah, i'm working on my six pack. Switch to a king suite or book a silent retreat. Silent retreat? hold up yeeerp? i can't talk right now, i'm at a silent retreat. Cashback on everything you buy with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. How do you cashback? chase. Make more of what's yours. Donald trump has a long history of making national disasters about himself today was no different the former president traveled to georgia to survey the devastation left behind by hurricane helene and once again, he could not help but inject politics into a tragedy. The governor is doing a good job. He is having a hard time getting the president on the phone. They are not being responsive, the federal government is not being responsive and having a very hard time getting the president on the phone. Here is the problem with that claim from governor brian kemp himself. The president just called me yesterday afternoon, i missed him and called him right back. He just said, what do you need it? i told him, we got what we need. We will work through the federal process. He offered if there is other things we need, which i appreciate that. That is a little awkward, i have to say. In another classic case trump is claiming democrats are denying republican parts of north carolina. Which is not having at all. That is exactly what his administration did to puerto rico after hurricane maria back in 2017. Meanwhile, harris canceled a number of campaign spots to return to washington and visit fema headquarters today. Which, by the way, is what an actual president would do. Here's what she had to say after being briefed on the federal response. Over the past 24 hours i spoke with governor kemp of georgia, governor cooper of north carolina and many local officials. I have shared with them that we will do everything in our power to help communities respond and recover and i have shared with him that i plan to be on the ground as soon as possible. As soon as possible without disrupting any emergency response operations because that must be the highest priority and the first order of business. I'm back with the panel here, george ashley, adrian and eugene. These are questions that are hard but i'm looking to ask them. Ashley, donald trump lies in ways that are easy to disprove. Why? [ laughter ] how much time do we have? i will say the challenge for his opponent is that he does, he lies a single shamelessly. It is a mistress or misinformation. He has been doing that since 2015 but he married he made the calculus and that his voters would not forget that. Previous politicians if i were to fact check mitt romney, he would change what he would say. Not because he cared that i partnered the washington to close gave him pinocchio's. All those long noses are he would change because he felt the penalty with voters. Donald trump realized with his voters, that is not all voters, not enough to get them to victory. With his voters seamlessness is his superpower. It is a bit of asymmetrical warfare but he lies and he says things that are not true. Vice president harris were to do that, there would be a much bigger penalty for her. And it is hard. It is a challenge to run against someone like that. It is definitely a challenge. Adrian, we are laying it out because people should know the facts here. Ashley is right, you are dealing with someone who is lying constantly. You cannot spend all your time fact checking. When you do about asa merritt like this? in 2016 that was a challenge. We have never run against a candidate like donald trump of four. We were spending a lot of time trying to fact check him and making sure reporters knew that he told 75 lies in the speech. And trying to push back on those lies. Last 4 to 8 years later, i think we've gotten to the point where number one, we know that him doing that, saying these crazy lies will not gain any more independent swing voters. It is not like the comments you showed earlier, which i will not repeat about the vice president or very derogatory and demeaning and untrue. It is not like there is independent voters that will see that and say, i will vote because he said that. We know it is more important, especially when talking to voters at this junction of the election, to focus on the issues. Make sure the american people understand what i trump 2. 0 would look like. Dismantling the aca. In acting and nationwide abortion ban. You have to focus on that. To your point about attorney general holder, they can do a lot of the work to push back on some of those things. Let me ask. George, you know a lot of people who may not have been in the democratic circles forever. I do think the functioning of government in a hurricane response this is something that has been, you know, in a bipartisan way has been handled well by republican and democratic presidents and less well by others. It should matter. If you are the harris campaign, should you spend time on this contrast? absolutely. They are actually in charge the biden/harris administration. They are in charge. If you do not look like you are paying attention, which has happened in the past with snowstorms in cities like washington and new york. Hurricane katrina did not work so i'll for the bush administration and you pay a huge penalty. It is also you have to do it because it is the right thing to do. Donald trump does not care about any of that. He only cares about whether a particular crisis can be used to manipulate his, you know, manipulate the public. That is why he is willing to tell lie after lie pretty is a pathological liar. He does not have the gene that the rest of us have even make the slightest mistake. Even accidentally. He will say whatever pops into his mind. He wants people to believe that at any given moment. It is not that calculated. He is impulsive. Which is why, adrian will talk about issues and project 2025. There is also a part of the harris campaign, which i really love, they are doing things to trigger him. He was at a rally the other day, they said she later trapped for me. There was no trap and i was not trapped. As he is diving right into the trap. We all saw the trap. The contrast in the split screen is important. This guy is a complete crazed lying lunatic. Here is vice president harris acting like president harris. That is what people should be looking at. You have traveled now with president biden and leader, ashley has as well. When there is a federal response needed, there are disasters, we have less than a minute less. Why does that matter as people are looking at this? knew that when you talk about voters. Talk about the actual voting part of this. The people on the ground nursing imprint north carolina and georgia are both swing states. Most people will vote and they will vote for or against donald trump or vice president harris. But then you also have the rest of the country watching. You walk in the disaster zone with vice president harris does make that. She's trying to figure that out because of the drain on resources. Walking around looking like you are in charge for going to fema or doing what donald trump is doing. It is not bringing in those new folks. The people that are watching that it really matters, the suburban voters, independent voters and some republicans who try to make this race what it is at the end of the day, those folks are watching and paying a lot of attention. It tells you what they will do when their president. There is no better way to do it but see them do it. It can impact people lives. George, ashley, eugene, adrian. Thank you for joining me. My friend joy reid is standing by. We will talk about the increasingly racist campaign and tomorrow night vice presidential debate. She always loves to talk about our friend j. D. Vance. Do not go anywhere. Go anywhere life doesn't stop for a cold. Honey. . . Honey. . . Dayquil severe honey. Powerful cold and flu symptom relief with a honeylicious taste. Dayquil honey, the honeylicious, daytime, coughing, aching, stuffy head, fever, power through your day, medicine. Subject 1: who's coming in the driveway? subject 2: dad! dad! dad, we missed you! daddy, hi! subject 3: goodness! my daughter is being treated for leukemia. I hope that she lives a long, great, happy life and that she will never forget how mom and daddy love her. St. Jude, i mean, this is what's keeping my baby girl alive. 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Detroit is out of control. Atlanta is out of control. If that sounds familiar to you, it should. Donald trump talks about those specific cities a lot. He is a campaign in iowa last year. The most important part of what is coming up is to guard the vote. You should go into detroit, you should go into philadelphia and you should go into some of these places atlanta. You should go into some of these places and we have to watch those votes when they come in. Donald trump told his supporters to go into detroit and philadelphia and atlanta to, quote, guard the vote. Here he is right after the election in 2020. Detroit, philadelphia, two of the most corrupt political places anywhere in our country. Easily. Cannot be responsible for engineering the outcome of a presidential race. A very important presidential race. I think you all know what he is saying. He is saying that big cities with significant numbers of black voters cannot be allowed to play a role in helping to determine the outcome of a presidential election. It was racist then, it was racy now deleted and he definitely believes in now for joining me now is my friend and colleague joy reid she is the holiest waste of the reidout. . We've been talking throughout the course of the show whether things are worse than they were in 2016. Whether they are the same. You have been covering his outrageous language, his voter suppression efforts. I want to ask you that question. Do you think what he had this weekend, what he is saying now, his efforts in the cities is it worse than 2020 and 2016? is if the same? what level of concern you have about what you are seeing out there? i think i will echo george, in saying that donald trump, he called him a lunatic. He is clearly in decline. Everything about donald trump yes, it is worse than 2016 or 2020 because he is clearly in decline. He cannot start a story without veering off into a fictional award that he supposedly won. He cannot answer a question with lucidity. Donald trump is less lucid. He is also less inhibited. That means that his inmate racism pours out in greater measure now than it did before. He cannot control himself. I do think and to your previous panel's point, it is calculated. Donald trump is not just a fool who happens to be racist. He is a calculated person who is not trying to grow his vote share. He is trying to speak to the id of a particular kind of voter. We have to call out detroit, philly and atlanta. We have to go into philly, detroit and atlanta pretty lost pennsylvania, georgia and michigan in 2020, which is why he is under indictment for attempting to steal those races. What he is telling his voters, his small, his share of extreme maga voters , these blacks are stealing the election. Black asians are violent cannibals. Black people are the enemy. Black people will be responsible if/when i use lose. You are permitted, for my language, to do violence if necessary to stop another peaceful transfer of power. He understands that he is not winning the election. You and i both are campaign people and he is not winning the election. What he is doing is doing what he did in the summer 2016. He is setting up to see if i lose, they stole it. He did in 2016, he does happen to win those states. He did in 2020 and he is doing it again. When you were just talking there, it reminded me of the fact that he has a low ceiling for his voters. He is not reaching out to an expanded group beyond that. He has to both eviscerate his opponent, which is trying to do. He also has to make it seem like people's boats votes do not count either. I have to ask you about j. D. Vance. You talk about j. D. Vance and the most edgy, delicious way. He is going to debate tim walz tomorrow night. We will set on the panel for many hours in new york. Give us a preview. What are you watching for? o, james david. I think james david has one job, do not be weird, friend it will be hard because he is fundamentally weird. He is weird in a specific way. We have talked a lot about why he was picked. Was this to expand the base into even wider dude bros? he does not add anything to the base except for the younger, millennial, hard right, ultra christian crowd and motivate them. I think that is why he was added to the ticket. What he's got to do on the national stage where he has one chance to present himself against an older, more experienced, actual governor, a coach and a normal man. A normal guy. He is got to try not to appear weird. He has to try to overcome his deficits in terms of the things he said about women. Try to see more compassion and a family man and a normal person and try to suppress this urge to eviscerate women for being useless incubators, who if they have not actually pushed out a baby, have no rights to have any rights in the american system. We met what a time to be alive to have that position. Before i let you go, this debate you have covered many of these it will happen in a snippet escalation. I knew you were just time of this on your show in the last hour. Limited ground operations began tonight in lebanon. One of the most frequent attacks from vance and trump is that the world is on fire now for the biden/harris administration is to blame. How do you think they will handle that attack? how should governor walz handle that tomorrow night? there is no doubt that president biden's middle east policy is a drag on a vice president harris. That is just the fact that among younger voters and people who are concerned about world war iii. It is one of the things that are attracting younger voters, including younger voters of color away from her, even if not towards trump there's a certain vote that is a neither vote still and it is because of the middle east and the fear that the biden policy, his inability for whatever reason to stand up to netanyahu and get tough, is leaving open the possibility. That will hurt that ticket in michigan. The kamala harris/tim walz ticket in michigan. It will suppress some of their younger voters. She has an advantage because she speaks with a lot more compassion in terms of her abuse in the middle east. It is a risk. I think what tim walz is going to have to do what governor walz will have to do, he will draw on his military experience. He will have to say, i am a man with military experience and i have compassion for our troops. I do not want them at war. I do not want to see young men and women have to be marching off to war in the middle east. We will have a policy that ensures international law is followed. That respect the views of americans who do not want deeper involvement in this region with our bodies on the line. And that we understand and hear the people who have said that we want peace. Do not allow donald trump to present himself as the peace candidate. We all know there is one thing that yahoo wants more than total war not to go to prison, it is donald trump to be president of the united states. If he got trump, he would be far worse, far more unleashed, and far more uninhibited in the things he would do to the people that a lot of peace voters on the left care about. No question. Donald trump is like free reign, do what you want. The only chance walz habs is there rising antisemitism. A concern among many americans too. He has to address that. Joy reid, i love talking to you. I will spend time with you tomorrow night. It's you in new york. Thank you so much. Coming up, ahead of the vp debate, it is worth remembering a vote for donald trump is a vote for j. D. Vance. I will put the steaks in perspective, coming up next. Per. Otherwise the flakes will come back. He's right, you know. Is that tiny troy? the ingredients in head & shoulders keep the microbes that cause flakes at bay. Microbes, really? they're always on your scalp. . . But good news, there's no itchiness, dryness or flakes down here. I love tiny troy. And his tiny gorgeous hair. Make every wash count! and for stubborn dandruff, try head & shoulders clinical strength. ♪♪ vicks vapostick provides soothing nonmedicated vicks vapors. Easy to apply for the whole family. Vicks vapostick. And try new vaposhower max for steamy vicks vapors. If you're living with dry amd, you may be at risk for developing geographic atrophy, or ga. Ga can be unpredictable—and progress rapidly—leading to irreversible vision loss. Now there's something you can do to. . . ♪ ( slow. It. 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This will be different because trump is close to 80 , a bit addled and still riddled by legal problems. So there is more than trivial chance that of trump is elected, j. D. Vance will become president. Well, that puts things into perspective quite a bit. Remember, it was not too long ago that president biden's age was a constant vexation in right wing media. Anyone voting for joe biden in this election must and district must admit of vote for joe biden is a boat for kamala harris. Make no mistake, a vote for joe biden is a vote for, here's of boat vote for joe biden is a vote for, harris. Let us face it. Well, well, well. Now that the shoe was on the other foot, apply that same logic here. A vote for donald trump is now the oldest person running for the present is a vote to put j. D. Vance next in line to the presidency. Voters should keep that in mind when they watch tomorrow night's debate. Vance is not a typical vice presidential pick. He is a true bantering accolade with no moral compass at all. Remember, he renounces criticism of trump when he thought it would be advantageous to get on board. He has crazy ideas like taxing people more if they do not have children. And like his boss he traffics in conspiracy theories for his own political gain. Despite the real consequences of those lies on his own constituents in ohio. Unlike his boss, j. D. Vance is not a circus performer. He can, from time to time, discuss policy in a good manner and he is less likely to completely self combust on stage. Tomorrow may look and sound different from the debate a few weeks ago. The guy on stage is just as dangerous as trump and he is also half his age. From tim ryan, the last person to share a debate stays with j. D. Vance and he joins me, next. With a replacement we could trust. Vo: schedule free mobile service at safelite. Com. 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This is who he is running around with. Talking about accusations. To believe in a border, tim ryan thinks that you endorsed him. It is unbelievable. All right, candidates. You join nancy pelosi and chuck schumer calling your own people racist. This is the game that he plays. Joining me now is former democratic congressman from ohio, tim ryan, who was just on that debate stage that you saw in the clip. You have so many great quotes out there. You talked about debating him. I would just like to read one. Recently, he has got an audience of one. He has got to impress donald trump. If he is not saying these things that trump has said about world war iii and all the rest then dad will be mad. What does that look and sound like on the debate stage? what should we be all prepared for? i think some of the extremism. Some of these hardcourt positions. It will be more of the tone, the attack mode. Really being aggressive. I think flashes of anger. That is the kind of thing that would impress a guy like donald trump. Trying to pin him as extreme, out of touch, and all of that. I think that is where he will go hard. He has an audience of one. Cannot be that mad at him. He might be writing don't make dad mad when he gets up to the podium. We will never know. As i said, your last person to debate him. Everyone knows that. You also said he is not down. I don't think people expect it will be a repeat of what we saw couple weeks ago. What do you think people underestimate about him on the debate stage? he has an ivy league education. On paper, he should run away with the debate. He is very much able to get into nuance. He knows when he has to muddy the waters. He knows, and i think he still does he knows when he is advocating for a position that may be out of the mainstream or will alienate independent voters. That is when he goes into muddy the water mode and he will get really nuanced. You have heard him talk with some of his rallies. What did he just say? you are not really sure what he is talking about. Mountain dew, diet he goes off on these things. That is a little bit of a strategy when he knows he is on unsafe ground when it comes to certain political positions. He said he has to keep up with his own evolution, which feels hard. Governor walz, on the flipside, the other guy on the stage used to be your colleague in the house. He is your body. You said he was, quote, not a wannabe tough guy. That sounds appealing. How do you expect he will respond to vance's efforts not to make dad mad? i think he will stay mostly calm. I think he will be aggressive. You have seen him on the stump. He could make the argument. I think he will make the argument that i think you'll make it right in front of j. D. Vance's face. I think he can push his lessons too. I think he has that ability. You have a coach, that coach is not afraid to get in your face. A state championship winning coach. I think he will be aggressive but he is also going to be, in many ways, the real father figure. You know, the gentleman, who is the real strong person, the military service, the coaching, the teaching. The love of kids and his family and all of that stuff. That is what needs to come through. At the end of the day, if it is joyful lawyer versus grumpy young guy trying to represent grumpy old guy, i think it would be a win. No question about it. I am looking forward to it. This could be our last debate we see before november. It is what a contrast between them as well. Tim ryan, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insights. People should not underestimate j. D. Vance. That is my take. Thank you, again we will be right back. Ght back with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. But just ok isn't ok. And i was done settling. If you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. 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Finding a cure for childhood cancer, it means everything. Help st. Jude give kids with cancer a chance. [audio logo] okay, as we have been talking about there is a big vice presidential debate tonight. Probably the last debate before the election. Nancy rachel maddow will lead the whole team for special coverage for lots of people at the table. Lots of analysis about the vice presidential debate between j. D. Vance and demo. Hosted of course by cbs news. Coverage begins tomorrow 7 p. M. Eastern right here on msnbc that does it for me tonight. The rachel maddow show starts right now. T now. Right now. Rachel. Hi, jen, i feel like vice presidential debates are among the least predictable of all