Their debate should not be the last word. Im trying to debate Donald Trump again, and i city he should debate again. And as you say ear in las vegas, im all in. Im alln. The Vice President seems almost thrilled about the reality that she is all in proposing another debate and he is running from it. But you know the big news if you follow politics, because Trump Wont do another debate usually theres more than one between the nominees i can tell you that tomorrow by the current schedule will mark the last debate of this whole president ial cycle. The Running Mates, of course, facing off for the first and only time in their debate tomorrow. Senator vance arrived in New York today. Governor walz is in michigan with his team. And we are told just like the nominee debate, the running Mate Debate also has weeks of Debate Prep. Transportation Secretary Buttigieg stood in for Vance And Walzs preparations while tom emmer, also a minnesotan played walz for vance. Now, Vice President ial debates are not known for deciding the race, but remember, these two campaigns are statistically tied in all the key Swing States, which means even small development, let alone a big gaffe, could still matter a lot tomorrow night. The Harris Campaign is riding on momentum from endorsements right now. Some are expected and simply useful for a democratic base like the New York times Editorial Board formally backing harris today, which you see along with the prestigious New Yorker magazine. Neither outlet was expected to go maga. Other endorsements for democrats, though, have come through the would have been unthinkable before the trump era. Top general crystal speaking out in support of harris today. Or those ebig bush republicans like Dick Cheney and former Attorney General gonzalez coming out for harris as well. Now, that tough and controversial general, you might recall, was removed from duty for criticism of biden in 2010. Hes not only endorsing harris but speaking out in articles and interviews about her, her character, and the stakes. When we look at Kamala Harris, we look at her history, she came up as a prosecutor, an Attorney General, into the senate. She has lived a number of experiences that i think build in someone the kind of character thats going to be necessary in the presidency. We should elect them for the character, because we dont know whats going to come up. You dont know whats going to come up. Thats a person whos definitely exercised command positions, life and death. And this wider embrace of harris by veterans of national security and conservative politics, these individuals, it is exactly what Vice President harris discussed and tried to highlight before that big audience at the debate. I actually have The Endorsement of 200 republicans who have formerly worked with president bush, mitt romney, and john mckaine. Including Dick Cheney and liz cheney. I have talked with military leaders, some of whom worked with you, and they say youre a disgrace. Now, that was just then. The endorsements now coming in. Early voting sundays way. And then as for the more traditional support i mentioned, that New Yorker cover, magazine calling harris the sensible, humane, and liberalminded choice. Saying much of this is beyond debate. The times endorsement notes that Kamala Harris is a contrast to trumps standing alone as a dedicated Public Servant whos demonstrated care, competence, and an unwavering commitment to the constitution. Harris is balancing campaigning with governing today. She took time off the Campaign Trail to meet with Ukraines Leader amidst that war over there. Today she canceled Campaign Events and is addressing the devastation from hurricane helene. Across the south at least 116 people are dead. Hundreds more missing. And you can see here just some of the thousands of destroyed homes and businesses that are visible here. The devastation, fema briefed the Vice President on the Recovery And Rescue efforts. This photo is courtesy of her office. She just late today spoke from fema headquarters. I have spoken with Governor Kemp of georgia, Governor Cooper of North Carolina, and many local officials. I have shared with them that we will do everything in our power to help communities respond and recover, and i have shared with them that i plan to be on the ground as soon as possible. But as soon as possible without disrupting any Emergency Response operations, because that must be the highest priority. The Vice President there discussing the priorities, what she learned in the briefing. For his part, Donald Trump visited Southern Georgia in response to the storm and has addressed it. He also head held rallies in wisconsin, pennsylvania over the weekend. While trumps aides and allies say there are many things to be running on, Donald Trump is doubling down on the Rhetoric And Conspiracy theories he has long used as a political and Pr Kind of ploy to try to hijack political attention via outrage. This is an old playbook. Sometimes what were seeing over this weekend involves a more extreme version that we shouldnt normalize, but a more extreme version of what is fundamentally the same playbook. That does present now familiar challenges. This is true for citizens, for people in politics, for people in the press, when youre faced with this, when do you confront and fact check these kind of claims and when do you decide, again, as a citizen or whatever role you see yourself, to decline a temptation of Outrage Driving Overreaction to this individual. I can tell you the New York times reports that trumps Weekend Addresses were notably escalating the attacks. They were dark and often rambling. Other Outlets Fact checking false claims and lies by trump about his opponent and about immigrant communities. Trump also openly vowing to abuse government power. Something weve reported on many times here, including evidence of how hes done so in the past. Sometimes rising to crimes, sometimes not. He darkly suggested that Kamala Harris should be impeached and prosecuted. So trump is now having crossed this next line about harris, hes now publicly, loudly agitated for the prosecution of every democratic nominee hes ever faced. The first one, clinton, who drew more votes in 2016 but did not win the Electoral College. The second one he faced, current president who beat him handily. Donald trumps first impeachment was over his convoluted and failed foreign plot seeking the prosecution of the bidens in ukraine. A place that has much bigger problems than Donald Trumps attempted bribery shakedowns. And now completing this is harris. And this part of what i mentioned is this tendency he has, it is larger than rhetoric. Donald trumps plans to wield power in the second term are available for scrutiny. They are more extreme than the first term with whatever you already think of the first term and know about the first term. And so it goes beyond rhetoric to his attempt to normalize what he would really do. But while i am being careful to mention these things and not treat them as just ignorable or normalized, im not playing clips or footage of the lies. One of the reasons you have to be careful with taking Donald Trump live is to review what is worth airing and what im showing you to know about is not something we think rises to the standards that we are choosing to air it. There are also politically and this is a political race signs that what i just referred to is not working anymore for Donald Trump the way it used to. Its possible politically that it helped trump somehow in that very first time that he tried the move of vowing the prosecution of then hillary clinton, his nominee democratic nominee. That was back in 2016. Some real, much of it exaggerated, especially with regard to her. But now were in the third installment of this. And if it is politically failing, which is a separate point from whether sit valid, acceptable, consistent with democracy or law, that brings us to how Donald Trumps own allies and other concerned parties in the gop are knocking this. They dont think this is working. They think just about anything would be better. I think we should stick to the issues. I just think the better course to take is to prosecute the case that her policies are destroying the country. I have said for years that trumps divisive rhetoric is something that we could do without. Thats just a smattering of the reaction to the most recent. And so we are witnessing something here that is familiar, and for some people might be fatiguing. Of course, a lot of important things can be tiring but also has notes of a different possible outcome. That always depends on everybody, you watching or listen to this, everyone else in the country who has a role to play, but it does have signs of something different. There is not a complete Meltdown Overreaction to every single thing he says or lies about. Nor should there be. Thats a journalistic assessment. And there is more of a concern creeping, growing in public among people who still want republicans to win in 36 days that this might not be it. Now, what about those very close Swing State polls . What about where were headed . What about the latest numbers . As we get this close, a little over a month out from the race, we are going to start bringing you our expert at the big board. You know what it is, you know what hes probably wearing, and you know what he has a handle on. 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Xiidra was made for that, so relief is lasting. Xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. Dont use if allergic to xiidra and seek medical help if needed. Common Side Effects include eye irritation, discomfort, blurred vision, and unusual taste sensation. Dont touch Container Tip to your eye or any surface. Before using xiidra, Remove Contact Lenses and wait fifteen minutes before reinserting. Dry eye over and over . Its time for xiidra. We are still in a margin of error race. Its tied. Its tied right here in michigan. Its tied in all the Battleground States. So its going to take All Of Us to build a pathway, many pathways to 270 electoral votes. How close is it . Kamala harris own Campaign Manager on their own broadcast is saying this is a tossup, margin of error race. Theres no one better to explain why than our own Steve Kornacki at the big board. Steve, walk us through why it feels and were told its so tight. We can Take A Look right here. This is the average of all the major national polls that are out there right now. You do see harris three points ahead of trump in the average, 49 , 46 . But i think you were mentioning this last segment, trump has lost the Popular Vote the last two elections. He lost it by 4. 5 points to Joe Biden last time around. This would be tighter, closer to what we saw in 2016 when trump was able to stitch together just enough states in the Electoral College to get elected. Take a look at where the Battleground States stand. You see trump ahead. These are very small numbers, the overall story here, slightly ahead in arizona. A state that went for Joe Biden four years ago that trump carried in 2016. Georgia trump by 1. 1 on average there. Trump lost georgia in 2020 after winning in 2016. You do see harris with the advantage in those three Rust Belt state, midwest state, Big Ten states, whatever you want to call them. Michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin, harris with advantages there. All three won by biden last time around. And in nevada for harris. Notably this one in North CarolinaKamala Harris is ahead here. Its 0. 2 of one point on average, but the significance of income from an electoral College Standpoint is this. All of these states except North Carolina went democratic. They went for biden in 2020. Trump is trying to play offense in those states. Anything he wins here are additional electoral votes that he did not get in 2020. North carolina is the one state here he did win in 2020. The its one state where the democrats are playing offense. And its got 16 electoral votes. Georgia and North Carolina have the same number of electoral votes. If this were to be what happened on Election Night, and thats a massive, massive if, but if trump were to get georgia, he would pick up 16 electoral votes which he would then lose by losing North Carolina. One basically wipes out the other if theres a Split Verdict there. The overall picture you see here, extremely tight in these states. And the question i think that hovers over all of this is we saw polling misses at the State Level in 2016 and in 2020. They were really kind of similar where we saw them and among which group of voters we saw them. Michigan and wisconsin, last time around the poll misses were significant there. You had sizable mid to high single Digit Biden leads in those states coming into election day. And they ended up being razor thin, especially wisconsin. Wisconsin was just 20,000 votes in 2020. Pennsylvania, some issues there as well in the polling. So if that miss happens again the same way, these become very encouraging numbers for Donald Trump, but we wont know, obviously, until Election Night if thats happened once again. Makes sense, steve, and puts it in context because we hear so much about those states in isolation, youre reminding everyone what the winning coalition was last time. You have a breakdown on a Brand NewNbc Poll of latino voters, tell us about that. Another major questions hovering over this election, and one that was posed four years ago, trump lost in 2020 but made gains with hispanic voters. A Big Question has been would he lock those gains in and is there any chance he could actually build on those gains. That would shake up potentially the electoral map. Heres our poll, nbc news, cnbc, telemundo. A 14point Lead for harris. But the context is this. What were showing you here, these are the Exit Polls from the three previous elections. 2012, Obamas Reelection in the Exit Polls he won the latino vote by 44 points. Hillary clinton by 38 in 2016. Joe biden by 33 in 2020. Now you see how much lower than all these other numbers that 14point harris advantage in our poll is. So it does suggest that trump has continued to make gains with hispanic voters, even after improving in 2020. Whats behind this . Theres a gender gap, its sizable, among hispanic men, tie race, among women, large Harris Lead right there. Theres an Age Gap among hispanics under 50, the race is almost a tie, harris ahead by three points. Its hispanics over 50, she leads that group. We asked hispanic voters on these particular issues and characteristics which candidate do you think is better. Harris gets her biggest score on abortion. We see this in polls of the entire electorate too. And that question of being competent and effective as president , harris with a sizable lead there. Then it flips over, Economy And Inflation, at or near the top when you ask voter what is their major concern is in this election, and trump with the advantage. Nine points on inflation. Then theres this one on securing the boarder and immigration. Asked in our poll which candidate is better on that, hispanic voters by a doubledigit margin, 13 points, saying Donald Trump is better on that. And that part in part, i think, may reflect a bit of a shift in attitudes among hispanic voters, overall attitudes, towards immigration. We asked this Question Eeight years ago and we easked it again just now. On the whole, do you consider Immigration Something that helps the United States more than it hurts it or hurts more than it helps . Hispanic voters in 2016, 69 said helps more. 16 prosecute said hurt. Eight years later that has come down. Its more than doubled. Attitudes here have shifted to some degree over the last eight years. And i think that is the one other thing here in this trump era, well call it. Trump comes on the scene in 2016. Still here in 2024. This is a massive change. And im showing you what it is right now. You ask latino voters which party do you more identify with. The democrats do have the advantage. 49 to 37 points. But look how this has tightened. The last three elections before this. Look, in 2012, the last pretrump race, democrats had a 41point Advantage with hispanic voters. It is now down to just 12 points. It has accelerated since Donald Trump came on the scene, and especially since 2020, ari. Its fascinating, steve, im really glad you walked through that. Its a reminder of Something Weve talked about in many contexts, which is racial profiling doesnt work. And it doesnt work in the one direction, if you have ideas about criminology and tracking, weve heard, but also in the other direction, people who make too many assumptions about a group, thinking if you have Immigrant Heritage or a background from another place that that determines your policy views. As youre showing, theyre fluid, which makes sense. Im almost out of time, but if you have any final thought to button up, well let you have it. I think what youre saying, you hear about hispanic voters, an umbrella term, so much that comes under that title. And i think sometimes it sort of does, when you talk about issues of concern to hispanic voter, you do see sometimes immigration a lot of people gravitate towards, oh, this must be the issue. I think one of the takeaways in this poll is that the Economy And Inflation yeah. We talk about this every time we take a poll of all voter, it shouldnt be a surprise. Hispanic voters, same thing. You and i weve covered at lot of elections. When the economys really good and people feel more chill, their feelings about correlated issues might correspond as well. When theres concern, we know peoples concerns about the level of immigration and Job Stability are related. Add in the fact that even the biden administration has cracked down on asylum and other more open or more receptive Border Policies because of the climate. So all really interesting. You always teach us something, and youll be very busy. Well see you soon, steve. Thanks, ari. By The End of the hour, a breakdown on early voting and how the Supreme Courts more maga members are eyeing ways to potentially toss ballots, something we are scrutinizing. We have more from my Julia Louis Dreyfus interview. There were some parts we didnt have time to air. Youll see that if you stick with me tonight. And snl is back in a big way. Impressions of everybody from harris to doug to a Brand NewObama Excuse me, a new biden. Thats next. Excuse me, a new b. Thats next. On everything with just one card. Chase freedom unlimited. So, if youre off the racking. Or crab cracking, youre cashbacking. Cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. Nah, im working on my six pack. Switch to a King Suite or book a silent retreat. Silent retreat . Hold up yeeerp . I Cant Talk right now, im at a silent retreat. Cashback on everything you buy with Chase Freedom unlimited with no annual fee. How do you cashback . Chase. 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Com, call or scan the Qr Code on your screen with your gift of 19 a month and well send you this tshirt as a thank you. Mother your help and your support, the need for it is endless. Jaxon thank you, cause theres a lot of people with disabilities out there. People like me. Please join easterseals with your monthly gift right now. woman look i got the new iphone 16 pro at verizon. With your monthly gift right now. Apple intelligence is pretty awesome. man nice. woman you can get it when you Trade In any phone. man whoa, whoa, whoa vo at verizon new and existing customers can get iphone 16 pro on us. When you Trade In any phone in any condition. San franciscos been through tough times. London breed led us through the pandemic, declaring an emergency before anyone else, Saving Thousands of lives. From growing up in the western Addition Housing projects to becoming mayor, london has never given up on the city that raised her. London is getting people off the streets and into care. 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That was snl playing Charlie Xcx making a joke about harris being brat, which is Charlies Term for something good. Great to have you. Great to be here. We showed before kornackis numbers how Kamala Harris is getting The Endorsements you might expect, New York time, and ones that would be unthinkable ten years ago. Bushs gonzalez and cheney. Where does that fit into the story shes trying to tell the country right now . Perfectly. Because shes saying, look, at tend of the day, i am trying to unite america. I want to bring together all people. I want to represent the fullness of the United States of america and all the people, even if we dont always agree. Thats what i want to do. And the fact that youre seeing so many folks who are completely idealogically opposed to many of her Policy Measures come out and say, you are the person that should represent and reflect us and we can work with you, thats exactly what shes trying to do with this campaign. So i think all these endorsements are aligned with the strategy. You can tell a lot about where things are from Saturday Night live. Like what the Punch Lines do. You know . And so if youre really political partisan and you see, oh, your sides getting knocked more than the other, but this is the 50th year, this is a big open. Were going to show some more from it where basically theyre talking to the whole country about what people recognize, what makes sense. And so the jokes in that sense are interesting. The Cold Open had not only the usuals, it had some new characters with new or returning actors coming back in to do it. Lets Take A Look. Well, well, well, look who fell out of that coconut tree. I havent been this excited since i got a 10 rebate on a Leaf Blower from menards. Tim is not the only white dude for harris here today. Its my husband, du. , lets get crazy, sexy cool, and play some tlc. Lets see how its going now with Donald Trump at his rally, which is entering its third hour. Where you going . I see you trying to leave, but the doors are locked. Get on out here, Joe Biden. No joe, im being serious right now, come on. Guess what . By the way. We can end the dramala and the traumala and go relax in our pajamalas. Shoutout to pajamalas. I want a political analysis of the jokes. The jokes about kamala and doug are shes a little goofy and hes a little over the top supporting her. The jokes about Donald Trump were even his own fans wont sit through his rallies anymore. Hes sort of just boring. Boring and angry and selfabsorbed. And i think thats what were seeing on display here with these jokes. Youve got kamala, whos got people, right, shes got family. Shes got a husband. She loves him. He loves her. A Running Mate who obviously is a Family Kind of guy, a Coach A Community oriented person. Youre seeing on display, i think something thats going to resonate with voters, that is that the democrats are actually of the people and theyre human, right . Theyre a little bit goofy, right, and awkward, just like your aunty is, but theyre human and normal. Then you have this rally with trump who for all intents and purposes is speaking to himself. He just likes to hear himself talk. When hes realizing that No One Else is listening, he gets blustery, louder. But hes not saying things that are coherent. I think that is old now. Maybe two cycles ago, people liked it. You didnt find him talking about his Beach Body to be coherent. I thought it was a hilarious spoof and a joke but probably something that happens on the Campaign Trail. That was the irony of it. Theyre so on the nose with these jokes that you have to wonder are they even jokes sometimes, especially when it comes to the things that Donald Trump has to say. And then the point i alluded to earlier in the hour is a lot of this stuff is harder than it looks. I mentioned whether youre a citizen or a public official or in the press, what do you think of how people are trying to deal with what the New York times calls the Dangerous Darkening mood at his rallies. Without overreacting to it. Just because he lied about something doesnt mean the outrage should make that the issue of the week. You know, what has really been whats taken hold of me, just as a voter, forget being a democratic strategist, i have been so moved by the joyful energy on one side of the campaign, if for no other Reason America has been under some darkness for the last several years. Were still kind of coming out of the covid trauma of it all. When they did the joke about the traumala, its going to be over, there is Something Weve all been feeling that is heavy. And having a campaign that brings out Music And Fun and Joyfulness And Laughter and love and relationships and all those things has felt good. Contrast with trump, that still makes us all feel pretty bad. The things that come out of his mouth are really horrible and despicable. The overall tone of the campaign is quite vile. And were just depressed when we hear him. Yeah. And i think that in and of itself is a contrast they Cant Fix because its who he is. And its why the mood we see is shifting. Has nothing to do with what is happening around policy perspectives but just the energy changes everything. Its interesting when you put it that way, because not angry cognitively is a little bit like saying not Ice Cream if youre on a diet. It doesnt necessarily take you away from the Ice Cream. You mean to, but the Ice Creams still doing a lot of work in your head. And not angry and not trump and not racist, polarized, division, youre in that cloud. As youre reminding us, one of the things that Kamala Harris has tapped into is not just we stand for something else. Youll be riding with us for 36 days. Weal see you again soon. Thanks for being here. The Supreme Court is still looming as people say what if Kamala Harris wins and the courts and maga try to steal it legally or illegally . I have a Breakdown And Neal coming up on that. And nea coming up on that. Switch to shopify so you can build it better, scale it faster and sell more. Much more. Take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify. This land is your land. This land is my land. This land we love belongs to All Of Us. Yet not everyone is treated equally. Right now, millions of americans are fighting for the things promised to all by the constitution. Freedom. Justice. Equality. You can help by joining the American Civil Liberties Union today. So please call now or go online to myaclu. Org to become a guardian of liberty. 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Automatic protections for who can contact them and the content they can see. this looks like a close election. If Donald Trump wins, that would be that. If he loses, it might be more complicated, given that he has challenged and tried to steal past elections. And there are warning Signs Today that his allies and lawyers are already looking at ways to deal with a loss. The New York times reports republicans have already filed over 80 lawsuits, more than three times the number at this point last cycle, and some could try to lay a groundwork to get to the Supreme Court. Again, youre only suing this much on the republican side if youre worried about losing. If you win, youre not looking for the courts to do anything. The Supreme Court refused to hear any of the many trump efforts to get some case before the court after his 2020 loss. Now, it takes five justices to get a ruling, to win at the court. But it takes only four to get the court to take a case. And while it wasnt noticed much back during that busy period, tonight as people look at the republican playbook, i want to call your attention to the fact that there were three, one short of four, three conservative justices who tried to get the High Court to hear what could be a pivotal trump friendly case back in that 2020 cycle. His lawyers wanted to toss certain votes that basically went against him, and they had a very particular focus. If you were a Trump Lawyer who saw him losing the race as the u. S. Evolved into this longer Election Month ive been telling you about, what would you target . Well, they went after voting early by mail. There was an appeal that attacked that. Trump Appointee Gorsuch joined two justices, who remember are now, we know, linked to radical attacks on democracy, alito and thomas. They complained then, as voting by mail becomes more popular, and volume may increase and pose delivery problems, similar to those anticipated in 2020. Now, the thing that is true there is there are more ways to vote over time. There are more mailin votes. The question is whether the maga members want the court to use that power to somehow affect what are the outcome of elections, democracy. Now, i mentioned the Voting Thing that only takes four to get on the court, because remember, that argument they were making was too much even for other republican appointees. They didnt want the court to get involved that way. Now, alito, who has been publicly condemned for his apparent solidarity in the week of January 6th with the people who also flew those flags upside down, and thomas, whos been in trouble for his own set of scandals and a wife advocating the overthrow of then epresident elect Bidens Victory but Supreme Court justices are not supposed to just take any case anticipating any potential problem, even if the way votes are happening has shifted to a longer period of time in the mail. Theyre supposed to deal with matters at hand, usually in as narrow a manner as possible. And so as the court has been exposed for more and more problems, including partisan evidence, there is a Big Question about whether theyre going to double back to these Mailin Voting rules as a way to potentially affect the outcome of the next election. We are joined by neal katyal, former acting under president obama. Welcome back. Great to see you. Great to have you. I mentioned trump could win, and there isnt currently Evidence Or Precedent of a bunch of groups trying to steal a lawful outcome of the election from him. But the opposite is true. So both on the Mail Issue that i mentioned and in general, how do you look at potential legal claims if harris were to win . Yeah, i think, ari, you got it exactly right. So look, you need 270 Electoral College votes to win. Donald trump is clearly worried that hes not going to hit 270. So he and his minions are aiming for seven, seven states, the Battleground States that Steve Kornacki just put up on the screen. And trump wants to turn those Swing States into see you in court states. And as you say, there are 90 cases that the republicans have filed already, including challenges to early voting. Now, early voting is something that generally benefits organized campaigns, and thats, i suspect, a reason why trump is worried. Hes probably lost organization somewhere between his fourth indictment and hiring his 80th Lawyer Or Something like that. But you know, the legal claims here are pretty weak. I mean, the early voting, voting by mail, all this has been authorized by State Law after State Law and what trumps lawyers are seeking to do is to try and put coals in it. And it shouldnt win legally, but weve seen examples of judicial decisions that stray outside the mainstream. Do you think there could be a fourth vote on the court to force the issue to try to bring a case. The justices and many of their clerks emphasize they dont look at things through a partisan lens, but the three people who wanted to get into Mailin Voting last time, it was somewhat noticeable. Yeah, i think its a hard question without knowing the specific case. I think whats really changed since i started practicing before the court is that the public legitimacy is at an alltime low. I was a Junior Lawyer on al gores team in 2000, and when the Supreme Court decided the case the way they decided, and you know, a lot of us were upset, but it was accepted. There was a lot of criticism to be sure, but nothing like what i think would happen today if the court did start to meddle. And so my hope is the court does the right thing and let peoples vote case. Thats, after all, what they did in 2020, what they did recently in a case years ago, moore versus harper. Even just ten days ago in the nevada case, the nevada Supreme Court agreed with the democratic party that Jill Stein Shouldnt be on the ballot. And the republicans, including a Donald Trump lawyer, tried to bring that to the u. S. Supreme court. And the u. S. Supreme court had none of it. So there are some signs for optimism, but you know, i think there is the real fear out there, and you know, i think my hope is that the court will do the right thing and let peoples votes matter. Hmm. While we have you as a as our legal expert, i wanted to turn to a very important story that sometimes gets buried. But the way the United States continues to execute people, which most democracies dont, the Washington Post has been tracking this. The United States reaching 1,600 executions since the Death Penalty was reinstated, reading from the article, the cluster of executions the past week drew National Krutny of the Death Penalty, five cases raising issues, including methods that might be cruel and unusual. Its a tough part of the american justice system. There have been endless, it seems debates about this. Im curious what you think about this, how the United States continues to execute people. Ari, its grotesque, and im so glad youre Drawing Attention to it. We are out of step with the world, civilized society. The other countries that execute in the kinds of numbers we do are like iran, saudi arabia, north korea, places like that. It deserves no place in our country. And you see that really in what happened last week when you had the execution of a person who very much Dna Evidence suggested was innocent. The family of the victim didnt want him executed. Indeed, the prosecutor didnt want him executed. And nonetheless, the u. S. Supreme court blessed it. There was a moment back in like the mid2015, 2016 era when it looked like the u. S. Supreme court was on the verge of the Death Penalty being declared unconstitutional, and unfortunately, some of the new appointees to the court have moved away from that. But im confident that in our lifetimes that the Death Penalty will be viewed as cruel and unusual punishment because it is so out of step with who we are as americans. Very interesting, especially given your knowledge of how these Cases Work and how the Appeals Process works, as you mentioned with something as irreversible as taking someones life. One might think there would be some other stopgap if theres any question, as you just reminded everyone, about innocence in that case. Neal katyal, thank you. Sit a busy news night. Were tracking several stories. We have a lot more coming up. Well be right back. T more comip well be right back. 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Officials are confirming they have the view it appears an israeli Ground Incursion into lebanon has just begun. Israeli officials said to the u. S. The incursion would be limited in scope, scale, and duration. Thats their account. U. S. Officials say so far, that is what they are seeing. This is days after israeli Air Strikes killed the long time leader of hezbollah in lebanon. Were joined by David Rothkopf who has worked in the clinton administration. Welcome. What do you understand is happening at this hour . Well, as i understand it, israeli forces are beginning to expand their operations in lebanon somewhat. The united States Government is concerned about this. President biden said earlier today that he is still hoping for a ceasefire, and i think the concern of u. S. Officials with whom i have spoken is not that this will be a limited operation as the israelis promised but instead that they will get bogged down, that Civilian Casualties will rise, as often happens in this kind of thing. The conflict between israel, lebanon, and hezbollah forces is long running and long predates the October 7th attack and the war in gaza. But after October 7th, there was an escalation. How should american audiences understand sort of the link between these two conflicts or wars . Well, hamas and hezbollah are both organizations that are tied to iran, funded by iran. Theyre linked to the houthis who are also tied to iran in yemen, and to other iranian proxies throughout the region. When israel went into gaza after October 7th, hezbollah immediately started launching Attacks Int northern israel. This has caused many israelis to be dislocated from their positions and the israelis have found this intolerable. If youre a viewer and you say, well, the israelis have conducted surgical strikes that have eliminated terrorists, thats probably net a good thing. Thats right. The question is, when this gets expanded, when you send ground troops in, what is the impact on the civilian population of lebanon, which is much greater . And earlier today, for example, the head of unicef said that it is starting to see big dislocations of people in lebanon, perhaps A Million people dislocated, and so were entering a very, very tricky phase of this. I think the u. S. Will be pushing for ceasefire. I think the israelis will not be listening. And you know, to the extent to which this goes beyond the kind of surgical strikes that we have seen recently, i think international opinion will quickly turn against the israelis. Well, were following this as a late breaking story. David rothkopf, thank you for walking us through some of it. Well be right back. We have an update on the big debate tomorrow. Stay with me. 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Its the first and only Vice President ial debate. Were going to preview all the action on The Beat and I Want You to know, we have a live Interview Tomorrow Right here with Pennsylvania Governor josh shapiro. Thats tomorrow on The Beat at 6 00 p. M. Eastern. Governor shapiro has played an outsized role both for his rumored position on the short list for Running Mate and running such a big key state, and then keep it locked because Rachel Maddow kicks off the special coverage tomorrow, 7 00 p. M. Eastern. The vp debate, get comfortable. We would love you to join us. Be here by 7 00 for rachel and the whole team, and on to the debate, its a big might and the last debate of this general election season. The reidout with