Transcripts For MSNBC All In With Chris Hayes 20240920

Tonight on all in let's all choose kamala harris! the return of oprah winfrey. For what we are hoping is going to be one great big, giant voter rally. Tonight the harris campaign event in a crucial swing state. Plus i think you are better than martin luther king. I think your martin luther king times two. Stunning new reporting on the trump endorsed candidate in north carolina. Robinson made dozens of very disturbing comments on a porn site, claiming he is, quote, a black nazi and wishing they would bring slavery back. Denials from the candidate ahead of tonight's deadline for republicans to replace them. And evidence donald trump can't get away from project 2025. I haven't read it and i don't want to read it, purposely. When all in starts now. Good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. We have a big night tonight for big stars in both parties. Any minute now vice president kamala harris will be appearing with the one and only oprah winfrey for an event in michigan. We will bring that to you as soon as we get it. We begin tonight in a different battleground state, the state of north carolina, where republicans are positively freaking out. You see the deadline to withdraw from the states gubernatorial election is four hours from now. The state republican party really wants candidate, mark robinson, to drop out. Even by donald trump's standards, mark robinson is a uniquely terrible candidate. He has a history of rank anti semitism along with other bigoted statements. He has made grotesque antiabortion ants accusing women of not being responsible enough to keep your skirt down. Two weeks ago he had to deny a report that he was once a five nights a week at indy at multiple porn shops, where he often brought a pizza with him. All of that was a known quantity and yet this afternoon we started to hear this chatter that republicans including members of the trump campaign had suddenly decided it was time for robinson to go and then we learned why. Around 3:30 p. M. Cnn dropped report that robinson made a series of inflammatory comments on a pornography website message board more than a decade ago in which he referred to himself as, quote, a black nazi and expressed support for slavery. The extensive and thorough report by the reporters at cnn provides overwhelming evidence that mark robinson was indeed the one making the comments on the website, nude africa. Including the fact that he signed up for an account using his actual name, mark robinson. He used the same username and email address for accounts on multiple other websites and in the report robinson says he wants to own slaves and calls himself a nazi. Wrote that he preferred the former leader of nazi germany over the leadership of barack obama. Also robinson graphically described his own sexual arousal as an adult with a memory of secretly peeping on women in public gym showers as a 14yearold. Robinson recounted the stories and said he still fantasized about it. He said he enjoyed transgender pornography and messages revealed he also referred to himself as, quote, perv. It is our position strongly on this program that consenting adults should be free to produce and consume any pornography should they want to, transgender pornography included. It does produce a stark contrast from what robinson says now about lgbtq folks. There is no reason for anyone in america to talk about homosexuality, any of that filth and yes i called it filth. He does seem to be a bit of a health expert. In an interview robinson denied that any of the messages belonged to him. These are not our words and not anything that is characteristic how do you explain the matching details on this profile, the profile lists your full name as mark robinson. The email listed on the account is an email that you have used elsewhere on the internet, including with your photo. You have used that name on multiple social media accounts including twitter, pinterest, blackplanet and youtube. How can you deny with all these matching details that this is you? look, i'm not going to get into the minutia of some one manufacturing lines. We should also note that the report covered language used, uncommon phrases. Under head. And i don't give two shakes of it. They were used by the account on nude africa and by mark robinson on his personal facebook page. Also according to the report, robinson spoke admirably about the kkk. Made disparaging remarks about martin luther king jr. More than a bit ironic considering what trump likes to say about his good friend mark robinson. I said to this man and when he endorsed me he gave a speech and i said your doctor martin luther king on steroids, that is how good you are. You are unbelievable as a speaker and he got up and he is doing fantastically well in north carolina and i think he's going to be the next governor of north carolina, mark robinson. I don't know if i would put money on that bet right now. Donald trump and his family said a lot of nice things about the man who called himself a black nazi and reportedly praised hitler. Thanks to one of the hottest politicians in the united states of america and he has become a friend of mine. Lieutenant governor mark robinson. You have to be very careful. You have to cherish mark. He is historic. Like a fine wine, because that is what you have. A fine wine. An outstanding person. I got to know him so well and fairly quickly. He is fighting and we know he is a fighter. The next governor of north carolina, mark robinson. Thanks, mark. We know them, we know mark very well. Amazing, amazing, amazing guy, but you know mark is a wonderful person, wonderful guy. A person i have gotten to know very well and i think that only are we going to win the state, i think he's going to win the state. Now it seems as donald trump might be trying to distance himself according to the carolina journal. Robinson is under pressure from staff and members of the trump campaign to withdraw from the governor's race and earlier leaders of the trump campaign told robinson he was not welcome and rallies for trump or j. D. Vance. He was slated to speak on wednesday, but his office announced robinson had tested positive for covid. Robinson is pretty far down the polls, while the top of the ticket is locked in a tie and to be clear the deadline to withdraw is today. He has less than four hours as of now. The candidate can pull out of the race until absentee ballots start to go out for overseas servicemembers. Those go out tomorrow. Robinson's name is already on them, but according to robinson it does not matter because he is not going anywhere. Let me reassure you the things you will see in that story, those are not the words of mark robinson. Clarence thomas famously once said he was the victim of a hightech lynching. It looks like mark robinson's, too. We are staying in this race, we are in it to win it and we know with your help we will. I, for one, feel reassured. Maybe mark robinson is the most extreme version of the maga candidate, but is he really that much more extreme than j. D. Vance who spent the last two weeks spreading libel about haitian residents of his home state? and what about donald trump who also bragged about peeping on women while they undressed, to say nothing of posting of sexual assault and then getting found liable of sexual abuse by a jury. The guy who broke bread at his home with a man who praised hitler. This is the republican party under donald trump. North carolina republicans, a little hard to return your candidate now. You broke it, you bought it. Mark robinson is your guy. Michael steele is a former chair of the rnc and is now the cohost of the weekend. Tara previously worked as a republican communications director on capitol hill. A super pac to court moderate women for kamala harris and they join me now. Well, well, well michael, let me start with you. Of course. Who could've possibly seen it coming? this i thought of the way more race in alabama, because obviously he was a zealot who had no business being anywhere near a senate seat and he won the primary because donald trump liked him and backed him and it never should have been close and then these revelations that he was essentially hitting on underage women outside the courthouse and stalking them in high school and he lost the senate race, but it is like a, there were 1 billion red flags. You chosen because donald trump liked him and now here we are again in north carolina. I had a moment of zen when the story started breaking because i was thinking back to 2010 and the worst i had was a candidate who had to declare she was not a witch. That's nothing. That's nothing. We are in very different territory. Look, i love the way you ended the intro. You bought it because you broke it. You own it now. Mark robinson is not going anywhere. He has three hours and some 45 minutes to drop out. He is defiant and the reality is that the stain is here. You knew this. They knew a lot of this and yet they thought they could get away with it. They thought they could slide it past folks. This guy is a pulpits and churches talking about killing people, people should die and everyone just walked it off like okay. So now this is the line you are drawing? this is the line? not the killing people. Not the other stuff he said that you already knew about. So what do you expect to happen now? north carolina is in play, chris. That is why the gop and north carolina republican party and the trump campaign want him gone because they are underwater in the private polling and they are losing the state, so they figure if they just jettison the weight they can get the ballast right and float a little bit better to win the state. Roy cooper, the governor of north carolina. We should note that north carolina is a strange state. Lieutenant governor czar elected independent of the governor, not on the same ticket. The governor said donald trump and gop leaders embraced mark robinson for years knowing what he stood for including disrespect for women and inciting violence. They reap what they sow. What does this say about this era of the maga gop? this is i think the worst i have seen. But what does it mean for the party and what does the party do now, because if it were a democrat, people would be issuing statements. Particularly jewish members of congress would be out with statements saying this is unacceptable, he should drop out, this is disgusting. As far as i can tell i don't think there has been one word from one republican anywhere. This is donald trump's republican party. Donald trump is despicable, he is shameless, he is a con artist, he fleeces people. He is a convicted felon and incited an insurrection. Why is anybody surprised that the candidates that are now running in the republican party aren't the best people? mark robinson isn't the only one. There is a litany of them. You have blake masters, herschel walker. Now we can add this guy. They all are despicable, horrible people who said despicable, horrible things, extremist things about women, and mark robinson is just another one to add to the list and he got a pass a little bit because he is black, just like herschel walker. You look at their records and the things they said, they are not qualified for office. They are on unfit, but maga needs their racial path of pacifiers. Better than martin luther king. Are you kidding me? donald trump comparing this guy to martin luther king? if anybody ever looked at this and thought donald trump was not a racist or actually cared anything about people of color or a history of civil rights. You've got to be kidding me. You are comparing this guy, who, like michael said, there should be some killing from the pulpit? so not only is mark robinson a hypocrite, he tries to hide behind god and christianity when he does it and this is another frustrating part, infuriating part of their hypocrisy trying to hide behind god. Mark robinson said if anyone came against him they would get god's vengeance. Stop using god and christianity to hide your perversions and hypocrisy. Maga does this all the time and mark robinson is the next one. He has a problem and says they are a sin against the holy spirit. No, how about your hypocrisy and you and your sexual deviancy hiding behind the pulpit? that is a sin before god. They need to stop it. This is donald trump's republican party. That is what you get in this era when there is no shame. There is no shame. It is pathological and the people of north carolina, i hope they do the right thing. I think it is a test. Is the party going to be okay with this? we should note tonight, when you talk about no shame, donald trump is doing an event to combat antisemitism tonight, speaking tonight and i will say i thought about this a lot in the context of mark robinson. There is a post that he accused of being concocted by jews and he used a yiddish derogatory term for black people. This was public beforehand. This is a guy who said that he preferred hitler to barack obama and now calls himself a nazi. Given the conversation about antisemitism this does seem like something that needs a response from someone in the national party. That you can't align yourself with someone who calls themselves a nazi. Chris, you would hope so, but i would not put any money on it. What are they going to say? they nominated him. They nominated him in the face of all of this stuff and in the face of the stuff that we already knew. This is new, so we are just finding this part out, and in the face of everything else they have the video. They have seen with this guy was saying before he announced a run for governor. They knew what kind of elected official he was for the state, so what are they going to say now? oops, my bad? i don't think so. The reality is they are stuck with this, because this is what they wanted. They were cynical in the nominating process. They did not give a about the voters of north carolina. It was about fronting a black man that could be the noise and chatter that they wanted to unload and he brings his own baggage that he unpacks on their front porch. What are you going to say, the spokesperson for the national party? i am waiting for those comments. State party organization. Members of congress from north carolina, how about that? there is one gop member tonight and i think this is what they will do. This one, again, someone who uses the term like terminology like your deep in the world of antisemitic vocabulary. Stereotypes. He also called beloved television creator norman lear and antisemitic slur. That is the kind of stuff we're talking about. But to your point, michael, one republican congressman basically says who knows anymore these days with a. I. What they will do because they are capable of saying hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants are voting, they are just going to use the reality denying machine that it does not exist, even though everyone should read the article and i cannot overstate to you how thoroughly documented it is. This guy. Have a drink with you when you are reading it. They will use the reality denying machine here. Yeah, this is what they do because this is donald trump's playbook. This is what roy cohn, donald trump's mentor taught him to do. Never admit defeat. Never admit wrongdoing. Not only don't admit it, double down on it. It worked for him and got him elected president the first time. It worked for george santos until it didn't. There are a litany now if people who tried to replicate the donald trump playbook and it caught up with them. Hopefully it catches up with donald trump, too, and he is denied the presidency in november. He is a convicted felon now. They are not going to do this because if they hold mark robinson to that standard than they have to hold donald trump and the rest of maga to the same standard. This is kamala harris's point in the debate. They have to criticize everyone, which they can't do because the party is so diseased with this ilk that they can't pick and choose outrage. There is no integrity anymore and this is a perfect example. There are only a couple of hours to go and there was one halfhearted response from a republican in north carolina. Where are the calls for this guy to step aside? you are not going to get it. I should say for context and when i was talking about the antisemitic remarks, josh stein, the north carolina attorney general running against him, right now he is leading in the polls. We will see what happens after this. If you are watching right now, direct your attention to the little box on the screen. What we are carrying is the beginnings and we will go to it in a moment. We are anticipating basically a live interview in detroit, michigan. A sort of interview rally event being produced and hosted by the one and only oprah winfrey and she will have the vice president of the united states out for this event and i do think, michael, if we could turn the dial 180 degrees to the other side of the clock face from mark robinson and sort of what he embodies and what his vibe is, to oprah winfrey hosting kamala harris and i think it says something honestly about the kind of different tones of these coalitions. The kind of different messages, inviting people in and the question of general decency enjoyed as a path forward and something the harris campaign has really leaned into and she will be on stage with oprah winfrey tonight. What do you think? the country has been recovering from the dystopian landscape painted by donald trump and what you have seen is joe biden through policy efforts, you know, inspiring road rhetoric. Spending time with the nation. Moving us in a different direction off of that path. Now this is kamala harris's opportunity as she said to not look back, but to move forward. As we are watching interest rates come down. Watching home ownership and things like that begin to turn in the favor of consumers. That there is a better path forward and we don't have to look behind us and long for that. For those who think that the four years of trump were better than these past four years, let me help you understand why that is not true. Let me show you why that will not be true in the future and i think that is an important message for her right now and moments like this with mark robinson and others is just an affirmation of how we should not look back. An affirmation of why so many of us republicans, i am still in the party with liz cheney and dick cheney and a whole bunch of others, said we are with her. We are going forward. There was a big announcement. There has been a wave of republicans endorsing kamala harris. 100 staffers signed a letter. To kind of signal the openness of the coalition. I know that your working to try to appeal to moderate women. Where do you see those efforts right now and how successful i mean, the trump campaign has tried to come in their line on her is that she is an extremist lefty. That is the main thing. You know actually i was going to ask a question, but instead of asking that question i think i am going to go to it now because i believe oprah winfrey just introduced the vice president of the united states, kamala harris, who is about to enter an event with the campaign in the city of detroit, michigan. Let's take a listen. So welcome day oprah. Hello, madame vice president, hello. Welcome to michigan. It is so good to be back. Thank you for everything you are and everything you do. Thank you. Thank you. Can you see this? we have 1000 screens here representing people from all over the country. Hi, everyone. Can you feel it? can you feel the joy rising? i can and i have to tell you there is so much that i love about our campaign, because it really is about the people and i look around at the screens. I look at who is in the room and this is america. I was saying to a group of friends earlier, i think in this moment where we have dealt with so much that i think is quite exhausting around powerful forces that would try to divide us and try to have us as americans point fingers at each other. That this movement that is about reminding each other that we have so much more in common than what separates us is so critically important and this is about the strength of who we are as americans and this movement that we are in as i like to see in the face of a stranger, a neighbor. Literally in the face of a stranger you see a neighbor and approach each other with that level of dignity and grace and kindness. That is exactly what happened with when with black women. Thank you. They started it. It is your fault. They said let's open the door. Let's open the door and invite everyone else in and everyone actually came. Organically. Like this is the beauty of our country. There is so much at stake in this election and ultimately the question before us is what kind of country do we want to live in? the beauty of democracy as long as we can hold onto it, the beauty of democracy is each of us has the power, each of us has the power to answer that question. That's right, everyone on this call and beyond has the power, but can we start with this? yes please. I have to say this. Everyone is saying it. I know you have. It seems to us that something happened to you the moment that joe biden, president biden stepped aside and withdrew his candidacy. That something dropped and you just stepped into your power. I mean literally. A speech the week before, which was a great speech, very nice and then the next week, i saw you walking in the thing and what happened? to you? you know we each have those moments in our lives where it is time to step up. Time to step up. I really have been saying to people it felt like a veil dropped and you stepped through. Did you feel like that? i felt a sense of responsibility, to be honest with you and with that comes a sense of purpose. We are all here and you are all taking time out of your busy lives, everyone here, because there really is so much at stake. I have spent the majority of my career being concerned about the wellbeing of other people. As i have said in my career as a prosecutor, i never looked at a victim or a witness and asked them are you a republican or a democrat? the only thing i ever asked is are you okay? when i heard that it touched me. Traveling this country and knowing what is at stake in terms of fundamental freedoms. What is at stake in terms of fighting against hate and those efforts to divide us? and i do know that i am in a position to do something about it, so i felt a great responsibility and the incredible power of the people. I am not the only leader in this. This is so much bigger than me. It is about who we are as americans and it is about making clear what we stand for and what we stand for is about the ideals upon which we were founded, including the importance of freedom and the importance of independence and the importance of dignity and purpose, but it is also what we stand for in terms of our values. A lot boils down to values. It really does. I mean, think about it, oprah. The idea that someone suggested my opponent, that the measure of the strength of a leader is who you beat down. Come on, the real measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you lift up and it is important for us absolutely. You know ever since the debate, we feel for our fellow citizens in springfield. The families, everybody having to deal with this lie that has endangered the lives of haitian people and anybody who looks haitian. Everybody in america feels for that and everyone in america, left, right, middle, has concerns about immigration and i am told that justin, where are you in the audience? hello. You live in michigan. Don't you love saying hello madame vice president? what is your question? it is an immigration question. When you become president, what will be your specific steps to strengthen the border? so, it is a wonderful and important question. You know my background was as a prosecutor and i was also the elected attorney general for two terms of a border state, so this is not a theoretical issue for me. This is something i have actually worked on. I have prosecuted transnational criminal organizations for trafficking drugs, guns, and human beings. I take seriously the importance of having a secure border and ensuring the safety of the american people. Sadly, where we are now can be traced most recently back to the fact that when the united states congress, members of congress including the most conservative republicans, came up with a border security bill and here is what that would have done. It would have put 1500 more border agents at the border. Let me tell you those agents are working around the clock, giving support and relief, which is probably why the border agents actually endorsed the bill. It would have allowed us to stem the flow of fentanyl and i am looking at people all over the country here, so i don't need to tell the folks who are watching what fentanyl has done to families and kids in our country and the need to take seriously stemming the flow coming into our country and addressing that extraordinary and tragic issue in terms of its effect. The bill would have allowed more resources to prosecute transnational criminal organizations and it would have been part of the solution and donald trump called up those folks and said, don't put that bill on the floor for a vote. He blocked the bill, you know why? because he preferred to run on a problem rather than fixing the problem. And he has put his personal political security before border security. Because understand even in the intervening months what that bill would have done, to give support to folks who care about this issue and this again gets to the point about what does leadership really look like and is it about you or is it about the people? is it about running on problems or fixing problems? my work in my career has always been about saying let's fix problems. Let's address them because we know it is within our capacity to do that. To answer his question now that the bill is gone, it has not passed, will you reintroduce that? absolutely and when i'm president of the united states i will make sure that he'll gets to my desk and i will sign it into law. Thank you. A majority of young americans 18 to 34 say that the cost of living is the top issue i had of the election. Let's take a look. Groceries are extremely expensive right now. I don't understand how people are affording life. High cost of living is their top concern this election. $435 to last us to the end of the month. Okay? what? in philadelphia rachel and garrett say they have to watch every penny. When i think of middleclass i think of people who are able to get up and go and do things within their means. Not extravagant things, but to be able to get up and go to dinner whenever they want or take that trip, that long weekend trip. We don't have that luxury. By a long shot her tax plan is phenomenal. Kamala harris just delivered her new economic plan and boy oh boy is it good for small business owners. You guys, kamala harris is going to announce tomorrow a $25,000 tax credit for first time homebuyers. When i am elected president i will make it atop priority to bring down costs and increase economic security for all americans. Rachel and garrett are joining us on zoom from pennsylvania and i understand your sister and brotherinlaw moved in and you are hoping to save money to have a second child? that's right. Hi, oprah. Hi, madame vice president. It is nice to be with you all. Yes. So what you want to say to the vice president? madame vice president, we are, like many young americans, just experiencing a very high cost of living. We ended up giving up our apartment and moving in with their parents who were so gracious to take us in for over a year so that we could save money and ultimately buy a home, because that is what we thought the american dream was, to get married and buy a home and have a baby. Now here we are and our mortgage is incredibly higher than what we thought it would be and my sister and our brother inlaw are living with us right now so that they can hopefully one day do the same and while it is beneficial for us, because they help us pay off some of our mortgage, it is also beneficial for them because they can save on cheaper rent. We really would love to know what your plan is to lower the cost of living? first of all, thank you both for being here. Yours is a story that i hear around the country as i travel and in terms of having the right to have aspirations and dreams and ambitions for your family and working hard and finding that the american dream is for this generation and so many recently, far more elusive than it has been and we need to deal with that and there are a number of ways. One is bringing down the cost of everyday necessities, including groceries. That is why i am taking on, for example, price gouging. Which is when most companies and corporations are good, but for those bad once they take advantage of people especially during a pandemic or extreme weather and they end up jacking up prices and there needs to be accountability for that, so i will be taking on price gouging. There is also dealing with what we need to around home ownership. As someone mentioned, look, i grew up a child of a mother who worked very hard. She raised me and my sister and she saved up and by the time i was a teenager she was able to buy a home. And we grew up actually, for a long time, in an apartment on top of a childcare center that was owned by a woman we called our second mother, because she helped my mother raise us and she was a small business owner. So i will bring all this together to tell you. The way i think about it is, one, when people work hard and have a dream of buying a home, we should give you the opportunity to be able to do that which is why part of my plan is for firsttime home buyers to have a $25,000 down payment assistance to buy your first home, because people just need to be able to get a foot in the door and then you will do the hard work. Part of my plan is what we need to do to support small businesses, because my second mother was a small business owner and i love our small businesses and our small business owners. They are not only business leaders, they are community leaders. They mentor, they hire locally and we have so many entrepreneurs in our country who have great ideas. Incredible work ethic, but not necessarily access to capital because not everyone like my opponent was handed $400 million on a silver plate that he filed bankruptcy six times on. So part of my plan is to give startup small businesses a $50,000 tax deduction to start their small business. Right now it is $5000. Nobody can start a small business with $5000. So that is part of my plan. It is a tiny business. A concept of a business, right? you know where i am going. That's right. On paper. It just hasn't happened, right. To speak to you guys and your family and your dreams is what we need to do around giving middleclass families tax breaks, so part of my plan is to extend and expand the child tax credit to $6000. So that you can in the first year of your child's life have the resources to be able to buy a crib and a car seat and clothes for your baby. Knowing that is such an extraordinarily important time in their development and you shouldn't have to worry about how to take care of their basic needs. All of this and more is part of what i plan to build and i call it an opportunity economy. It is basically about creating opportunities, knowing so many people have the ambition, have the aspiration, are working hard, but just need an opportunity to reach their goals and their dreams. I saw you smiling with that $25,000 credit for the home. I saw that smile. Thank you all so much. I want to introduce you to shelby who is also in our virtual audience. Thank you. Shelby from virginia who is also struggling. All right, we have been watching this live event in detroit, sort of a national town hall. Vice president kamala harris, the democratic nominee. She has been taking questions from a variety of folks. Sort of an oprah version of those calls that started by grassroots people. Black women for kamala was one of the first ones and then other groups and they became a viral sensation. Sort of the unite for america oprah winfrey version of that. I want to digest a little bit of what we have seen and bring in the dean of the columbia school of journalism. Fernand is a democratic strategist and pollster. And the host of the new insync podcast. All three join me now. Let me start with you because one of the things that is so striking to me is there have been two issues that people have been saying to pollsters are top of mind and that donald trump had an advantage on the polls and that advantage has been diminishing in the aggregate across the polls and specifically costofliving and immigration, specifically the border. It was very notable to me that they came out tonight and those are the first two questions and the first two issues with very concrete, legislative, the border bill will do this. I'm proposing this, you know, this federal subsidy for homebuyers for a down payment. This expansion of the child tax credit. These efforts to go after price gouging, et cetera. It seems to me this is working, but i wonder if you think it is. Well, chris, i know it is working because we see the confidence and we see how kamala harris is leaning into these issues that would seem to be the big albatross issues for the democratic campaign. First when it was joe biden and obviously now harris, but we also reflect it in the polling. The gap has shown that where trump had a clear advantage on these issues, the economy and immigration, kamala harris now in some cases surpassing trump in terms of trust. Who do you trust to do a better job on the issue? and just her sense of confidence. She is not regarding these as problem issues. She is saying i've got plans, i've got solutions and when you look at what the other side has done, all they have done is demagogue and apply the political rhetoric. I think it is why she is growing in the polls. I think it is why she has been able to bring back a lot of the wandering voters that maybe had been wanting to vote democrat, but had issues, especially young voters and even members of the old obama coalition. They are coming back precisely because of concrete answers and solutions on issues like the economy and especially immigration. That is the trick she has pulled off. She turned immigration into a strength and made it an albatross for the trump ticket. Partly aided by donald trump so frequently and cynically killing the border bill. Alexi, you have covered politics on the campaign trail. What is striking to me here if you compare the candidates on this, there was some criticism that harris was not doing enough policy, but those first 15 minutes, how she was in the debate, how she was at the dnc, it is very legible politics. There is a problem, what is your solution? my solution is these proposals which i would sign. Donald trump has a weird combination when you ask these questions of delusion and tangents. He is all over the place and then it comes back to it is all about we will drill more so that cheerios will cost less. Drill for cheerios or we will deport a bunch of people and that will make your cheerios cost less i guess, but it is pretty striking the difference between what to me is concrete, legible politics. The way that other politicians used to do. Mitt romney kind of ran like that in 2012. Compared to trump. I guess when trump was running we were all asking each other, ourselves, voters, republicans, if trump were to become president would he fundamentally reshaped the republican party by way of policy and governing or by way of settling personal scores and we have seen that it is the latter. He has never been someone who cared much about policy or using that to define his legacy. If i remember correctly, build the wall was a mnemonic device he wrote down to remember to talk about immigration at all and then it became his main thing, because he is not intellectually serious or honest about these issues and there is a little bit of sexism, let's be honest. By the idea that kamala harris does not have enough policy or needs to give more thorough answers on things that changed in the past. She, as you pointed out, is giving clear answers that are not just in contrast with trump's lack of a plan for anything, but she is showing people and defining her candidacy on her own, which republicans spent millions of dollars trying to do to no success. One of the things that i find, this is about sort of a metaquestion about how political discourse works. One of the things that is frustrating to me right now and i think is a huge vacuum at the center of the campaign, people's frustration with what has been cumulative inflation. 100% totally rational. Prices did go up, you are not imagining it, and also totally makes sense. The battle against that has largely been waged through monetary policy and is largely victorious. You don't want deflation. The only president with deflation was hubert humphrey and the great depression. So it is a little hard to explain that. So there is this little bit of a mismatch with the problem and the solution when you talk about this issue. So there are a few things here. One, i think the brilliance of this format has been if you take a step back, after the debate everyone thought she did really well and then you start seeing polls saying that voters still wanted to know more about her. Presumably that was about policy. About the specific things you are talking about. The complicated, boring things that don't really excite voters, but this is what you are saying people need more of. The brilliance of what we saw this evening and what is still going on this evening is that oprah winfrey, for nearly four decades now, has been introducing people to america. Correct. People come away from her show. They come away from our interviews. They come away from these experiences feeling like they know the person she has been talking to. We were talking about the fact they made the set look like a living room, which is very much an opera staple and all the kinds of things that went into that dynamic. You will ask the question of the economy and these things. We will talk to people who seem familiar who are about to start their family. Early in their lives and we will talk about how i can address this in that particular way, not talking about deflation. I totally agree. I said, oprah is the greatest ever. Michael jordan. She is incredible. The best broadcaster. Speaking of which, let's see what they are up to. To. With propublica. So, listen to her story. Two years ago, 28yearold amber nicole thurman, a medical assistant and a single mother into a sixyearold boy, found out she was pregnant. Amber had just secured her own apartment and was thinking about going to nursing school. She made the decision to terminate her pregnancy. A strict abortion ban had recently taken place in her home state of georgia, which caused amber to travel to north carolina for the procedure. Traffic made her miss the appointment, so the clinic gave her the medication, what are known as abortion pills. Once back home, amber it sprints to profuse bleeding, vomiting, severe pain. She eventually passed out. Her boyfriend called for an ambulance. At the hospital, amber's condition deteriorated quickly but in a rare occurrence, it was discovered her body had not expelled all the fetal tissue and an infection was spreading. An expert analysis of her case said amber should have received a lifesaving dnc, but doctors waited 24 hours before deciding to take her to surgery. Amber's blood pressure had taken a dive, her organs started failing grade in the operating room, her heart stopped. On the way to surgery, amber's last words to her mother were, promise me will take care of my son. Amber's mother, jeanette, and older sister cj are here and they wanted to be here tonight. Just speak out for the first time point what do you want us to know about amber's story? initially, i did not want the public to know my pain. I wanted to go through it in silence. But i realized that it was selfish. I want y'all to know, amber was not a statistic. She was loved. By a family, a strong family. And we would have done whatever to get my baby, our baby the help that she needed. When propublica came to my home, i pushed them away. No. No. No. But she was persistent. She said it was something that you needed to know. You have to hear me. Women around the world, people around the world need to know that this was preventable. Two years later, after speaking with my daughters, because i lost strength, i lost hope, you are looking at a mother that is broken. The worst pain ever that a mother, that a parent could ever feel. Her father and myself and the family, you're looking at it. Well, we appreciate so deeply you being here. And we are all watching you hear that tape and those words, we know how it retraumatizing that is and the strength it takes for you to be here to tell your story, and we deeply appreciate it. And i have to ask you, as her sisters, how are you coping, and what does knowing that this could have been prevented how does that sit with you, how do you cope with that on a daily basis? i mean, it's heartbreaking, you know? that was my baby sister. I loved my baby sister, you know? i am beyond hurt. Disappointed, i feel guilty, i wish i could have helped her, you know, because she was suffering, and we had no idea, we trusted them to take care of her, you know? and they just let her die, because of some stupid abortion ban. Truly, she was just another number. They didn't care for her, as if she was their daughter or their granddaughter. You know? she is not here, she will never come back. And what do you want to say? i will say that it is very disheartening that my sister was allowed to suffer for 20 hours. She suffered, there was nothing we could do to help her. We trusted the healthcare professionals to do their job and save her, but they failed her. Well, i think the most powerful thing that you have said here, miss jeanette, is that your daughter is not a statistic. She had a wife, she was loved by her sisters, loved by her family, loved by those who knew her, and she is not just a statistic, and we are happy to speak her name tonight in this room, talking about what this country needs in terms of reproductive rights and freedom. What do you want to say, madame vice president? i am just so sorry. Um, and the courage that you all have shown is extraordinary , because also, you just learned about how it is that she died. And they just recently learned, yeah. And amber's mom shared with me that of the word over and over again in her mind is preventable. Preventable. That word keeps coming to her. And this story is a story that is sadly not the only story of what has been happening since these bands have taken place. And you know, so, just to step back, in terms of how we got here, the former president chose three members of the united states supreme court with the intention that they would overdo the protections of roe v. Wade, and they did as he intended, and in state after state, including yours, these abortion bans have been passed that criminalize healthcare providers. In a couple of states, prison for life, oprah. Prison for life and a couple of states for a doctor and nurse who provide healthcare. And so, it seems very apparent even when the mother's life is in danger. See, here is the problem with that. Here is the problem with that. So, is she on deaths door before you actually decide to give her help? [ applause ] is that what you are saying? yeah. We are watching this pretty remarkable townhall happening, which kamala is speaking to oprah winfrey, she just heard from the family of a woman who died after leaving her home state of georgia, which had an abortion ban, and ended up in north carolina. You heard some of the details there, brutal story reported out by propublica, a woman who should still be here today with her son, and who is not. We have now gotten a few different issues throughout our. I want to thank our guests that joined us tonight. Thank you for sticking around this hour, we were sort of figuring out how we were going to do this, but again, when you have oprah winfrey speaking to the vice president, [ laughter ] thank you. You know that you know that you have got something pretty interesting and important. Final question, alexia, do you think kamala harris should be doing more? like more press? o, i mean, more like this? for sure. Well, with anyone, she is good. Every time i see her, i'm like, she is obviously doing very well, just get her out there. Yeah, i do think one thing, though, is the washington press corps certainly did her no favors up until this point, it definitely went out of their way to criticize her and make her seem like the most incompetent vice president in history, so i do think that there is a bit of a sense on harris's campaigns part that they don't need to sit down with the people who went out of their way. I think you are right about that, but i do think that having her talk to people, take questions, think and talk on her feet, which she is obviously manifestly good at, as we have seen, is good for her and good for the campaign and good for american democracy, that is my general take away from tonight. Thank you so much for sticking around with me for this hour. That is all on this thursday night. Alex wagner tonight starts right now, good evening, alex. We are going to be continuing to cover that event, chris, but i've got to say, the moments where kamala harris is genuinely reacting to the voters she hears from, there is so much empathy, there

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