On a saturday in recorded history. First of all we need to upgrade your saturday. Second, i would agree it was a standout experience. I am not on some with people as you may know and i am a little bit awkward. I had no idea what to expect but particularly doing that thing with you with being next to each other chatting with each other and talk about this crossover and talk about what it is like to do these shows and our overlap and what it is like to work with each other, t it was moving and cool and i ov like you. Most of the stuff we ndtalke about, it is the first time we have ever talked about it. It was listen. I think it was between 35 and 40 minutes and something like that and i could've done three hours and just have gotten warmed up and it was just great. If we will ever do another event like that let's volunteered to do it again. I will do that. Rachel, happy sweet 16. Yes, it is my anniversary. Yes. You are now 16 years old. My sweet 16. You are 16 and tv years which makes you two years older than i am. Thank you. Well, they are finally trying and here is the latest attempt. T the elements of the news media that have been accused of saying washing donald trump know they are guilty of exactly that. Some guof them, like the new yo times, they really really are trying to do something about it but this is their first try. So it is in perfect. The first tried by the new york times was published night under the headline as the debate looms trump is now the one facing questions about agent capacity with a sub headline reading his rambling sometimes incoherent public statements have stirred concern among voters in the article doesn't use the term saying washing which describes the way some in the news media edit his crazy statements down to a shape that allows them to try to make sense of them. The article does offer the new york times own confession about doing exactly that. Here is the new york times confession in writing tonight in this article. Often, his mangled statements are summarized in news accounts in ways that don't give the full picture of how baffling they can be. In the new york times has done that. They have done that every single day in the new york times has been covering donald trump the politician. And this includes in this article tonight. They couldn't get through the whole article without doing it. And in this article they are trying to cure itself of its habit of saying washing saying sane washing donald trump. And there were people who clapped enthusiastically for donald trump incoherent response to a question about childcare, a response that wasn't an answer. It was a widely criticized incoherent jumble that didn't answer the question in any way and in an article the new york times thought they could cure this sane washing habit by doing a larger portion instead of these short bits they used in the coverage of it. Here is the attempt pedicure of its own habit of sane washing in which in the end it sane washes him a grin again. They say because quoting donald trump at length can provide additional context and here is a more extended account of his reply on affordable childcare. It is a very important issue but i think when you talk about the kind of numbers that i'm talking about, because childcare is childcare, there is something you have to have an in this country you have to have it. When you talk about those numbers compared to the kind i am talking about by taxing foreign nations, at level they aren't used to, but they will get used to it very quickly and it won't stop them from doing business with us, they will have a very substantial tax when they sent product into our country, those numbers are bigger than any numbers that we are talking about including childcare that it will take care. And after running that extended incoherent response by donald trump, the new eyork times the in the very next paragraph, sane washed it with this interpretation. What he seemed to be saying is he would raise so much money by imposing tariffs on imported goods that the country could use the proceeds to pay for child care and in itself that would be a disputable policy assumption. A disputable policy assumption. That is the single most disturbing thing i have read in the new york times about the new york times and let me just read this once again. What he seemed to be saying was he would raise so much money by imposing tariffs on imported goods that the country could use the proceeds to pay for child care and in itself that would be a disputable policy assumption. It was a time not long ago and everybody at the new york times, and i mean everyone, including the printers and delivery truck drivers knew what a terrace is terrace tairiff is and they say it would be taxing foreign nations in the new york times allows that to stand as a fact in its campaign reporting. That means the new york times campaign coverage and the economic coverage is hopelessly lost in this campaign. How slowly do i have to say it for the new york times campaign reporters to understand it for the very first time? i have said it many times before and i understand the new york times campaign reporters are too busy to be watching this program and i don't expect them to learn any of this from me but i expected them to learn this by the end of the first th year of high school. A tariff is imposed by the united states of america and paid for by the people of the united states of america and nobody else ever. The entire point of a tariff is to raise the price of the foreign product to the american consumers so the consumer doesn't want to buy it anymore because it is too expensive. All economists understand that american tariffs function as sales taxes paid by american consumers and economists consider tariffs sales taxes. Yes, they do raise money and yes, they are the only way the federal government raise money before the imposition of income taxes. And the only way the american government can raise money is nt from the american people and the american government can't tax anyone other than the american people. The night before the debate the new york times is telling its readers that donald trump's are taxing for nations. Yes, he tells a lot of lies and it's impossible to keep up with anyone of those but the lie on this the new york times in an article designed to take on his lies and incoherent ramblings prints his tariff lie and let sit stand in the only question is whether they would make enough money or raise enough money to pay for child care. The same thing about his response from childcare last week with the new york times trying to tell you that donald trump seems to say that his tariffs would raise so much money that it could be then used to pay for child care but then maybe donald trump wouldn't use it for that. Donald trump didn't say one word about paying for child care are using that revenue to pay for child care and there's not a single thing in his response that any sane person can convert to donald trump suggesting that the federal government should in any way do anything to pay for anybody's childcare and the new york times hallucinated that explanation into existence and after doing that of his madness , the new york times then says it is a disputable policy yo assumption. No, it is not. It is a completely impossible. What this article does do is prove to you how deep the actual intellectual rot is at the new york times and at the reporting and editorial levels going all the way up to the top and this is a big article for the new york times tonight. And it had to be examined by multiple editors to make its way into print. Everyone of them was completely cool with donald trump's insanity about tariffs. The new york times was happy to put in print that they are taxing for nations and that lie, the new york times let stand unchallenged. Everybody working in the business section of the new by k times is embarrassed this and everybody in the business section, editors and reporters know the truth about tariffs but they are not the reporters and that and they have no input with that campaign coverage. The new york times and the rest of the news media has a been enabling his lies about tariffs a think ull years in they were doing that because donald trump was telling bigger lies than lies about tariffs and more destructive lies, lies about elections and lies that have gotten people killed. For years i have been occasionally or repeatedly thinking about these lies about tariffs multiple times a year ou and it's been a very lonely pursuit. It is much a much worse than i thought and then i know there are people working at the d new york times believe donald trump when he says tariffs are taxing foreign nations and there are people at the new york times who allow that to go into print uncontested that have forgotten whatever was they were supposed to learn in high school about them. They let his lies simply seep into the political system and seep into the very soil of american politics without ever examining or disputing donald trump's lies about tariffs and lies that give people false hope about what is possible. This means that we should be sitting here tonight with absolutely no confidence that there is anyone, anywhere working at abc news who knows what a tariff is. I didn't think that yesterday but i now think it is possible because of what the new york times doesn't know about them and i thought the new york times was the best about the stuff in the one person who works at abc news who i know what a tariff is is george stephanopoulos who worked on that issue as a member of e the representative staff and worked with others in the white house with president clinton but he has no role in the debate ha tomorrow night hosted by abc news so when donald trump lies about tariffs, it will be the job of vice president harris alone with no help from the moderators to try to undo 10 years of lying to america about what a tariff is and who pays one and that is how unbalanced this debate will be before it even starts. Kamala harris won't just have to fend off new trump lies to tomorrow night but sendoff 10 years of the accumulated weight of trump lying including on subjects that the news media has never made an attempt of any kind to challenge donald trump and what is the toughest question you heard a reporter asked donald trump about tariffs? the answer is none. There has never been a temp trump question put to him. 24 hours from now you'll be hearing many commentators saying much about this and in that sense she won't just be debating donald trump but debating the news media, reviewers of umthe debate, many of them who don't comprehend the fundamental facts of government. Like a tariff is not taxing foreign nations. We will be a tariff nation and will be to another country so i am a president who is a tariff president and attacks increase president i am not because we will lower the taxes when i am back in the white house. Tariffs are taxes on you. The reason no previous president ever wanted to be called a tariff president is because all of those presidents new that americans pay american tariffs. And all of their voters knew that too. Joining us now is the principal deputy campaign manager for the harriswalz campaign, quentin fulks. Thank you very much for joining eve. And in ate th thinking about just the tariff issue alone , you can see what vice president harris is up against tonight in that debate just a lie donald trump tells tomorrow night but the lie he has been building upon and the many lies he has been building upon and adding to over the years so that so many people take those things without even questioning them like this issue. Yes. He has been lying to the american public for the past 10 years and lying to the american public his whole life. This is very clear and there is only one candidate in the selection that is looking out for the middle class. Donald trump is lefor the ultra wealthy. Every time he opens his mouth, he is lying about it. He is for the ultrawealthy and giving corporations and the wealthy major tax breaks they spent on the middle class and the vice president is fighting for the middle class which is why you hear her introducing proposals to cap the cost and stop price gouging on food, to make sure that people can afford down payments on homes and continue to give american child tax credits and on the flipside you hear donald trump doubling down on tariffs which would, in fact, be a $4000 increase on the average middle class family in this country and that is what donald trump d is for and he is lying about it. The polls are tightening with in one sense they aren't it and most of the swing state polls have been within the margin of error and they are now in a intighter version with a margin of error and what do you see in the movement in the polls recently? i see we have to continue to communicate with voters and we have always known this will be a razor thin margin race no matter how it turns out. But we have to continue to put e in the work and vice president harris and governor walz are the clear underdogs in the selection and we have been the moment we started and partially because what you have laid out e because of the inconsistent fact checks of donald trump or a lack thereof in the lies he is telling about this country. We will continue to put in the work and build apparatuses across battleground states and continue to have the vice president and the governor across this country prspeak dirt the to voters which we will do immediately after the debate with a new way forward tour and that is how we will win this election. We are confident that as voters here vice president harris takes on donald s trump tomorro and be ready to share her vision for a new way forward with the choice crystal clear but our campaign will put in the work. When you look at tomorrow pu night's debate, how will the harris campaign be scoring a win? what would define winning this debate? look, at the end of the day it's not what our campaign things but what the voters think. To me that is a victory coming h into it because at the end of the day we do know this race about the future, about voters. They will hear those lies and about ripping away freedoms from people in the country and mainly reproductive freedom for women of reproductive age and one third live under a ban because of a direct result of donald trump and he will continue to lie about the economy and try to distance himself from project 2025 and his involvement in it which at i the end of the day it is a plan designed to destroy the department of justice and give trump unchecked political power so he can do whatever he wants and take revenge on his political enemies. The vice president has come prepared to share her vision. But at the end of the day it's about voters and the vice president will speak directly to american voters tomorrow. Thank you for starting up our discussion on this night d before the debate and we appreciate it. Always a pleasure. Coming up jd vance who ecnev met senator mccain inks he knows john mccain's mind better than john mccain's son does. The democratic senator mark kelly who now occupies john mccain's old senate seat in the senate will join us next. Us net i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. Cool right? look at this craftmanship. I mean they even got my nostrils right. It's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti. . . He's melting! oh jeez. . . Nooo. . . Oh gaa. . . Only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. Yay woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. And ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪) i'm not just an expert on eyecare savings, i'm also an expert in looking good. Like when you wear florence by mills frames created by millie bobby brown, only at america's best. Talk about a big deal. Get two pairs of florence by mills frames for $119. 95, exclusively at america's best. 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John mccain's family new john mccain a lot better than jd vance who never met him and john mccain's republican window endorsed president biden and kamala harris against donald trump the same donald trump doesn't share any of her values meaning john mccain values and last week john mccain's son jimmy mccain said this. The one thing about john mccain's he cared about his country and he lived his life that way. And as much as i stayed an independent i decided it was time to move on and do what i believe in and the matter the fact of the matter is it is country first and you think about your country first and however that is you care about your country and care about making it better and i feel kamala harris embodies a group of people that will help make this better and take us forward and that is what matters at the end of the day. John mccain was elected and reelected to the united states senate by the people of arizona six times and mark kelly who now occupies john mccain's arizona senate seat said this while jd vance was in arizona last week. If donald trump were serious about the border, he wouldn't have told republicans to torpedo the most comprehensive border security bill in decades. He did it because he doesn't want solutions. He wants an issue he can campaign on and while jd vance is in arizona today, let me remind you that he voted against strengthening border security earlier this year because donald trump told him to. Joining us now is mark kelly of arizona who is the author of a new children's book out tomorrow based on a partially true story and i do have that book right here on the desk and we will get to this in the last minute and i will start with what we just heard. Jd vance presuming he knows john mccain's mind better than john mccain's family does. I am in john mccain's senate seat and i would not for one second presume i could speak for senator mccain and he was a guy i looked up to and admired and he was a hero of mine. Jd vance shouldn't be speaking for senator mccain. But i will tell you about john mccain. He was somebody who stood up for democracy and fought for democracy in ukraine and he stood up to autocrats and dictators. Let me tell you who else is doing that and that is kamala harris. Kamala harris stands with the ukrainian people and stands up against vladimir putin and who doesn't and who does the opposite? it is donald trump and jd vance. They are not supporting our allies in europe against the illegal invasion and, in my opinion say one disturbing thing after another when it comes to the amount of support we provide to ukraine. That is who he was. I know his position and kamala harris as far as what she will do as a leader is very similar and that isn't what we see from jd vance or donald trump. I was working in the senate when john mccain was there. If there were any major bipartisan deals, john mccain was in the middle of it. If there had been a major bipartisan deal on immigration, the kind negotiated this year, john mccain would have not just been in the middle of it but an important leader of it as a border state president and people would have looked to him for guidance and he would have known exact the how to reach a bipartisan deal. He wouldn't have let anybody, especially somebody like donald trump say who he could vote for and that is not the john mccain i knew in the john mccain this country knows. Donald trump told senate republicans that they couldn't vote for the border security deal. Most of them listened to him and did what he wanted them to do because he did make it very clear that he needed that for the election. Kamala harris has made it very clear that she will bring this bipartisan border security bill back if they can get it through the senate and sign it into law. Republicans don't want to solve this problem. Jd vance doesn't want to solve this problem. What they like to do is they like to make trips to my state, the state of arizona, john mccain's state. They like to go there and take a picture at the southern border. They are not really into solving problems. It just isn't this problem. It is problems like trying to bring down the cost of healthcare and prescription drugs for seniors. Donald trump's project 2025 makes it very clear that if he is in office, he will undo the legislation that reduced the cost of senior prescription drug prices. And so many other things that are not in the best interest of our country. I do have to ask you about the book and i flipped through it this afternoon. This is mousetranaut a children's book but it is a partially true story and what is the true story? it is on my first space shuttle mission i had 18 mice on board in 17 were freaked out and didn't enjoy the experience and there was one little guy who would float over and get his food and flip back and get his water and seemed to get it and we labeled him a mousetoanaut. I love the story. Thank you for joining us tonight. In the debate with a pathological liar, the deck is always stacked in favor of the pathological liar. Michael eric dyson joins us next. And treatment is 4 times a year. In a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner. So why wait? talk to your doctor. Effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a lifethreatening condition. 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How did the republican party get here? i hesitate to say this and i have to tell you and i don't know whether jonathan or others would agree with me but there is a false equivalency going on in the coverage of this race in that donald trump can say whatever crazy thing he wants to say about submarines and sharks and batteries and whatever he wants to say and not really covered in the sense that it is covered describing who said it and why he said it and who the man is in trump is out of his mind and always in that story in the false equivalency of too many reporters and too many american newspapers and also, by the way, kamala harris changing her mind on fracking. They always throw in something like that. It is ridiculous. We don't cover the man for how dangerous he is. Joining our discussion is the distinguished professor of african american studies and ethics at vanderbilt university and the coauthor of the new book cover present, the unfinished fight for the vote. There are two questions and how did we get here. One of the places we were at is this double standard with a standard for double or donald trump tonight and a standard for kamala harris tomorrow night and we know that standard will have to be perfection for kamala harris. We know that donald trump's standard is something else. We have had double standards in this country for a long time, haven't we? we have and a brilliant way for you to say it and it is nothing new in its as an african american boy growing up born under the wing of the jim crow in detroit, michigan, it was battered into my brain that you have to be twice as good and i know that's an old sod others, but it is true that a certain generation of black people felt we have to outperform to get half the consideration. Kamala harris knows already that we are grading trump on a curve and grading him with a great dispensation of donald being donald whereas she is to be held to a higher standard. She won't complain or bellyache but she will perform which is the best way to beat these folks who engage in that type of unspoken privilege. You have been in various debate formats and different types of academic challenges that are much more sophisticated and just as a student of roderick, how is it one a master of it and how does one confront rhetorically pathological lying? that is a great point. The thing is she gave a bit of a hint went on an interview on another station when she was asked about mr. Trump and she said the same old tired playbook and next question. I think at this point she can illustrate to the nation how hateful his rhetoric is and she has to engage a little bit to say this is the worst aspect of our american soul and not what lincoln would call the better angels of our nature. She shows she is the master of rhetoric in a way donald trump never dreamed he could be and then she uses it to dispose of his arguments which are a falsehood and thirdly she reminds people that there is a huge difference between this man with his cricketing logic jumping from subject to subject and do what i do and i think at that level the pathological lying will continue and won't affect her in the same way. We will squeeze in a quick break and i do want to ask what you tell black voters who are thinking about voting for donald trump. We will be right back. You, lov♪ (♪♪) ♪ i believe. ♪ (♪♪) ♪ i believe. ♪ ♪ i believe in you. ♪ dupixent can help people with asthma breathe better in as little as 2 weeks. So this is better. Even this. Dupixent is an addon treatment for specific types of moderatetosevere asthma that's not for sudden breathing problems. Dupixent can cause allergic reactions that can be severe. 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Voya helps you choose the right amounts without over or under investing. Across all your benefits and savings options. So you can feel confident in your financial choices. They really know how to put two and two together. Voya, well planned, well invested, well protected. President biden has already said he will veto the spending bill that mike johnson is trying to pass. What is your fallback position? this isn't a fallback position and it's a righteous fight and when you take the poll on this 87 percent of american citizens will citizenship and it's unconscionable to me that anybody in this building would vote against or suggests it's politics. Democrats will vote against it and president biden would veto it if it ever got to them because the senate won't send it to them and if there is a government shutdown in 21 days that will be because no spending bill has been signed into law and president biden announced this to many of the republican spending choices in this bill and opposed to the voter i. D. Provision in the bill unrelated the federal government spending since the federal government has no real role in elections and president biden said the bill will make it much harder for all eligible americans to register to vote and increase the risk that eligible voters are purged from roles in this legislation is a necessary and already illegal for noncitizens to vote and it is a federal crime punishable by prison and crimes. This behavior is wrong. The lock clearly prohibits it in addition making a false claim of citizenship or unlawfully voting in election is punishable by removal of the united states and a permanent bar to admission. States already have effective safeguards in place to verify voters eligibility and maintain the accuracy of voter rolls and in his new book cover present the unfinished finish for the vote he writes nearly 10 percent of americans or the voting age population don't have official identification cards such as a driver's license or passport in the majority of these people are poor and many elderly or born in a time and place in getting a birth certificate wasn't as common as it was today. A large percentage or african american and a larger percentage or native american. Getting the documents to qualify for a driver's license and securing that can be expensive for financial reasons. These function the way they did under jim crow making it hard or impossible for some people to vote because they can't afford the cost. Them people most affected by these are some of the least powerful in the united states and people for whom boating may well be the only or best way for them to make their voices heard and back with us is michael eric dyson and my favorite chapter of your book is this one. What you can do. There it is right there and everybody who is out there wondering what they can do in this fight for the vote. It is important and thank you for taking time to read that and my coauthor is a splendid writer insisting that we include that because we need people to have a roadmap of what you can do and how you respond in the actual practices you can adopt in order to protect yourself. We know it is a bunch of shenanigans when it comes to the voter i. D. Law and another way to disenfranchise native people, african americans and others. When you're out there talking to voters, you are in exchanges with some black voters thinking about voting for donald trump and some maybe who have. How to those discussions go? i try to be reasonable and say this was the guy before he was the president when he was an icon of hiphop because he was rich like you and wanted to be and had a bunch of women that appear to be and appeared to be he was a great businessman so two lives are there. What is interesting is he is differences as a political figure. I heard one wrapper say he gave us a check during covid and i said that was the legislature. I do try to educate a bit about that and if you talk about giving out checks, joe biden has relieved the financial burden of millions in regard to education. I say to consider his record and consider the things he said or has done. He has done extraordinary things for individual african american people like spearing them from jail but the collective has been the vicious subject of his disregard for african american people and mexicans, latinos and others. I suggest to them to do your homework and think seriously about he and his father denied people access to be able to rent their homes and still hasn't apologized for wanting to literally send to the death chamber the exonerated five, the central park five. When you do look at his rhetoric and him saying he is the best president for black people, it is a bunch of malarkey and i ask them to take seriously what he says and judge it against what he does and look at what your options are and what is open to you. Does this expand to the issue of party and how the republican party is now the party that is trying to suppress in any way it can. When you can get that far because sometimes emotionally and existential but certainly there is an argument and then you get the argument among some that the democrats are and look what they did in this was about 250 years ago and this is a janet jackson approach like what have you done for me lately and when you look at that i began to talk to them about a party that is intent on suppressing your vote and destabilizing the ability to have the franchise and robo calls that lie to people about when they can vote and encouraging these voters and doing unconscionable things and so is the governor of florida. I suggested to them that one party stands behind people, not perfectly, but as grace jones said i may not be perfect, but i am perfect for you and i think the democratic party has argued itself into a stable position that i feel comfortable appealing to. The last thing you say to a voter is that in any sense you owe one side and i guess the argument would have to be made that this side has not earned your vote and that side has? absolutely. There is truth of how the ancestors fought valiantly and sometimes through blood to have the ability to pull a lever or register their opinion. One party has stood tooth and nail with them to defend that right and one has eroded that. We owe not only a party but ourselves and our ancestors and the people here now the ability to stand tall and effect the truth in the middle of devastating misinformation being spread around most especially by the orange apparition that has be clouded the american horizon. This has a subtitle but if you just know michael dyson represent you will find this book a manual for our democracy at the moment we need one including the chapter what you need to do. Tonight's last word is next. Is. 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