Released a recording. The president reads supporters any email that they got from ginni thomas. I got an email today from ginni thomas, justice thomas's wife. I want to read that to you. You guys have filled the sales of many judges. Can i just tell you think, and this is all caps, thank you so so much. To really understand how inappropriate that email is from the wife of a sitting supreme court justice you have to first understand what it is that they do. We are the nation's largest law firm exclusively supporting religious liberty. We have recently won four supreme court cases. We win over 90% of our cases which is unheard of that the legal world. At the supreme court the record is nine wins and zero losses. That is correct. The organization ginni thomas was thinking so profusely the law firm that specializes in trying to change the law by bringing cases before the supreme court. That court where her husband clarence thomas is a sitting justice. Even if you don't know them by name you may know some of the cases the group has brought before the high court. They sued to strike down the state of maine ban on using public funding to pay for religious schools. They represented the bakery in oregon whose owners refused to make a cake for a samesex wedding. They brought a big case opposing vaccine mandates for religious groups. All of those cases made their way to the supreme court and first liberty won all of them. That actually isn't the work ginni thomas is praising. She was thanking the group for their work on this kind of stuff. Now they are coming right out and saying it. Political elites from the radical left want to overthrow the supreme court. How do they plan to go about this? flooding the high court with additional justices. Enough cronies to game the system. Their pet political projects will win every time. In other words by installing a permanent automatic majority. What would you call an attempt to overthrow an entire branch of our government. Let's call it what it is. A supreme court coup. Where have we seen acute coup like this before? venezuela. In the wake of numerous and recent scandals many of which involve clarence and ginni thomas , first liberty has been playing defense. They've been publishing articles, running ads and operating like a pr shop. They even made a website devoted to what they call the liberal supreme court coup. Amazingly in the recordings that were obtained, the president and ceo says the quiet part out loud. He explicitly says that first liberty is scratching the court's back by defending the court in public because the justices themselves cannot do so on their own. Here is first liberty president kelly shackleford referencing a case where first liberty defended a group of navy seals who did not want to take the covid vaccine. He does that as a way of explaining exactly what first liberty is doing for scandalous supreme court justices. It reminded me of when the seals know how to fight they can't fight in court. We came to them. They were so appreciative because we were doing something for them they could not do. These judges are that same thing. They can't go to the political sphere and fight. They are trying to protect the existence of the court. It is neat that those of you on the call are part of protecting the future of our court. They really appreciate it. Really appreciate it. That is the group ginni thomas is thinking for their work. That was after she held a meeting with a staffer. A staffer from a group that is fighting for her husband clarence thomas in the court of public opinion. A staffer for a group that will undoubtedly continue to bring major law changing cases before her husband at the supreme court. The fact that ginni thomas and a conservative activist group like first liberty are this cozy is a real problem both in theory and in practice. The supreme court is supposed to be a neutral arbiter of the law. The reality is that it is dominated by incredibly conservative justice with clear ideological agendas that may, in fact, be significantly influenced by outside conservative activists. Today we got a powerful reminder of why that really matters right now. Today was the first hearing and former president trump's federal election interference case since he was granted limited immunity or than two months ago. It was the first hearing in more than 11 months because it was put on pause while the supreme court deliberated. The first order of business was for the prosecution and defense to present their cases as to what can and cannot be charged given his limited immunity. On that front, judge chutkan was incredibly candid. We are hardly sprinting to a finish. We all know that whatever my ruling on immunity is it is going to be appealed and the taking of that appeal will again stay the case. Judge chutkan knows that whatever she decides it will all end up being appealed very likely all the way to the supreme court. The court were clarence thomas sits. The other issue before the court was the argument from trump's lawyers that the entire case should be thrown out on the premise that the appointment of jack smith was unconstitutional. To advance that argument his lawyers cited who else? justice clarence thomas. Specifically they cited his note, i guess is what we will call it in the immunity opinion which called into question the appointment of the special counsel. Here is his lawyer. What i'm saying is the court should consider the issue and justice thomas in effect directed us to raise this issue and suggested we do it immediately in light of his view and that concurrence. Judge chutkan. Thomas directed you to do that? trumps lawyer. I should not say he said to do it but when you read the opinion it's absolutely clear that it is something we have to do now to preserve the issue. Joining me now is former u. S. Assistant attorney for the southern district of new york and former federal prosecutor and senior writer for political magazine. Thank you for being here. Clarence thomas being cited directly and all of that. It's very clear that the lawyers enjoyed his direction or at least paid attention to it. I want to talk about what unfolded in the courtroom today. Judge chutkan seemed incredibly resistant to the argument trump's lawyers were making which is handling this before the election would be bad news. She says, quote, this court is not concerned with the electoral schedule. Trump's lawyer. We are talking about the presidency of the united states. Judge chutkan. I'm not talking about the presidency of the united states. I'm talking about a four count criminal indictment. What did you think of that? she is resetting and making clear to the parties in the case and the public that this is just like any other case and it will proceed according to the schedule that any other defendant would be entitled to or subject to. That, she repeatedly said that. She made very clear. I think the defense counsel at some point said we should not rush to judgment here and reporting from the court she kind of chuckled and said, this has been over a year and it has been tied up in litigation in the superior court's. I think she just made clear that we are going to do things the way we ordinarily do and not give special dispensations despite justice clarence thomas. She sat a pretty tight schedule after the proceedings were over. As much as she said she's not driven by the election and the case is not driven by the electoral calendar, the briefing on the immunity issue will be completed before the election. That's how it would be for any case. It's happenstance of the calendar not the campaign or the election. Let's look at the calendar for a second. The immunity arguments on the calendar is september 10 turnover all required evidence. September 26 if you are following along at home that is the deadline for the special counsel to submit their opening brief. October 17 trump's team can respond to the filing and october 29 is the deadline for the special counsel to file its reply. Election day is november 5. October 29 is the conclusion of what we expect to be an intense back and forth between these teams. How much do you think we will see publicly of the information presented? that is the big question. You are exactly right to instruct people to circle the day on the calendar. I did that on my phone this afternoon. Digitally. Not literally. The government said it is prepared to submit a large body of evidence to the court including information concerning plaid and unplayed facts. That means facts that are not in the indictment. That could come with grand jury transcripts, interview summaries, documents from discovery. They made clear they intend a robust presentation. The big caveat is whether or not the government believes it is appropriate to put some or even most of that information under seal which is something alluded to today. That process could get messy. I imagine media organizations would fight the effort. Judge chutkan may not go along with it but she may agree. Ordinarily material is not supposed to be kept out of public dockets in public court proceedings except narrow circumstances like classified information, potential harm to witnesses or prejudice to an ongoing investigation but it is pretty clear to me from just reading the transcript this afternoon that the government is treading kind of lightly here. Even though not explicitly is trying to be a little cautious heading into election day. I am hopeful we will see a lot of new information but we will not know until we get closer potentially on september 26. Do you read anything into chutkan's refusal to concede to the political realities of the day as a sign that she might charge forward and say there are rare exceptions to keep this under seal so i will make it public. I do. I think at every turn she's signaled she's not giving special dispensations to this particular defendant. If she deems after she receives the briefings that it is necessary or important for this information to be made public assuming that the government even tries to seal it it ultimately is her decision. She will decide whether it should or should not be sealed and whether she will have an evidentiary hearing. I think she will do what she ordinarily will do even though it is just days before the election. The other piece of this is whether or not special counsel jack smith should be taken off this case entirely because he was appointed. The calendar for resolving that dispute, october 24 the trump team submits the motion to dismiss. Halloween, the special counsel replies. November 7 which is two days after the election, lord knows what will be happening, is the deadline to apply. She did not seem to favor the opinion that he was wrongfully appointed. She said she found judge cannon's really not particularly persuasive. Is that unusual? it is not that unusual for district court judges to disagree on subissues. In this particular issue is unusual because cannon's decision was a real outlier. As pointed out in the hearing today there is controlling opinion on this point that binds her. Even if she wanted to agree with cannon and she said it was unpersuasive as you noted she couldn't because she is bound by the circuit ruling. That's not to say that the argument will eventually not carry the day as we go through some years long process. But for now i do not expect her to give it much credence. You summoned the specter of clarence thomas i have to ask. Judge chutkan seems remarkably resigned to the appellate process that any decision she makes will be appealed. Is this destined to land in the lap of the supreme court? yes. It will. It's a question of how long and once the election is over i guess that is the only if. If trump should win a second term all bets are off and perhaps the whole case will be dismissed. In that event it likely won't be appealed. I think judge chutkan very squarely said she's not setting a trial date because she understands it will go up the circuit again to the supreme court so what is the point. So you don't have to circle that in the calendar. It could potentially be years before the trial begins. It feels like the beginning of a faceoff between a district court judge and the conservative supreme court. Thank you for giving us the scoop. Coming up, combating the rising cost of childcare the solution is to call grandma. The presidential debate does not take place until next week but donald trump's are declaiming it is rigged against him. Why he might be doing that, after the break. Indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. Six digestive symptoms. The power of nature. Iberogast. (bell ringing) someone needs to customize and save hundreds with liberty mutual! (inaudible sounds) (elevator doors opening) wait, there's an elevator? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ for more than a decade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again. ♪ farxiga ♪ ♪ farxiga ♪ ♪ farxiga ♪ ♪ farxiga ♪ ask your doctor about farxiga. A test or approve a medication. We didn't have to worry about any of those things thanks to the donations. And our family is forever grateful because it's completely changed our lives. Kamala harris and donald trump have never met faceto face. In only five days that will change. Next tuesday they will be on the presidential debate stage together in philadelphia. Yesterday abc news released the official rules which both campaigns agreedupon. Despite that trump is insisting that abc has somehow rigged the debate which would seem to be his version of the prebottle just in case he flames out. Abc is the worst network in terms of fairness. They are the most dishonest network, the meanest, nastiest. That is what i was presented with. I was presented with abc. Her best friend is the head of the network. Her husband's best friend is married to the head of the network. They are going to get the questions. I've already heard they are going to get the questions in advance. Joining me now is charlie sykes. Charlie, we all know that donald trump does not like legacy media, media as an institution. I read a little bit more psychologically into this. Do you have a working theory on why he's doing this right now? it is classic donald trump. It's very much on brand. He does not play chess. He doesn't know how the pieces move. He walks in and throws the board over before you even begin the game. As you said, it is a prebuttal. He's playing the victim card. All of this whining is designed to make him an object of sympathy for his base but also there's a little bit of working the refs. He is challenging abc. I said you are going to do all these terrible things. I've told lies about you now you need to bend over backwards to be nice to me. This is donald trump. He's not a mystery, secret, riddle, or enigma. He's going to go in there and he's going to do everything possible to derail the debate. We could talk about the substance of it, but anyone that expects that this will be lincolndouglas or the nation will be wiser or smarter afterwards has not been paying attention. I was going to say the standards have been significantly lowered but props to you for be conjuring the ghost. I also think there's a reality that donald trump has been saying some crazily incoherent stuff at recent interviews, events, and on the trail. It may not be some personal cognizance that he's not the man he used to be, but it does sound addled. I want to play, this is trump about a week ago at a rally in la crosse, wisconsin. Let's listen. Take a look at taken in some of these products. Some people don't eat bacon anymore. We are going to get the energy crisis down. This was caused by their horrible energy wind. I guess somewhere there's a link between bacon consumption and the horrible energy of wind. He goes on to talk about the death of words, bird cemeteries. We made light about the fact that he talks about hannibal lector, sharks, electrocution and so forth. It is representative. While it was just six weeks ago that another presumptive nominee was forced out of the race due to concerns about his advanced age and declining mental acuity, the mainstream media no longer seems that interested in the other party 78yearold candidate son downing before our eyes. He is much more incoherent than he was and that was a low bar. You saw that again today where he had this rambling, absolutely incoherent bit of gibberish when he was asked how he would lower daycare costs. This was the biggest political story of the first half of 2024 was the cognitive decline of joe biden. Why has it not continue to be a leading story? i'm glad you brought this up because this is a preview of the debate. As i mentioned before it is not going to center on policy. What you see with donald trump is a mind that is as devoid of information as it is lacking in any sort of discipline. Is going to go in there and throw anything he can up against kamala harris. Every insult, every bit of disinformation and it's a real challenge. It is a challenge for both the moderators and the vice president to do with somebody who is unbound by the truth and not going to engage in any kind of a substantive policy debate because, frankly, i don't think he's interested in that. That's not what he's going to be aiming for in the debate. What he will be aiming for is to muddy up kamala harris, maybe track her down to the mud. It's not going to be a particularly edifying experience for any of us. I was interested in the fact that the harris campaign wrote a letter to abc news expressing its displeasure that the microphones will be muted. They said that will serve to shield donald trump from direct exchanges with the vice president and that harris will be fundamentally disadvantaged by the format. What do you make of that argument? i don't think it fundamentally disadvantages her but it's an insight into what they think will happen. Donald trump will be donald trump. Let trump be trump and he will come continue to blurt out and interrupt her and put on display many of the parts of his personality and character that have turned off so many americans had maybe remind american voters why they defeated him four years ago. It is interesting that she is taking this particular position. I don't think she's fundamentally disadvantaged. On the other hand donald trump may be somewhat protected from his worst instincts and worst behavior. Protected against his own long winded jags on bacon and wind. Charlie sykes, thank you for joining me. Thank you. Coming up, the past 24 hours saw donald trump and j. D. Vance deliver ridiculous answers to the same question. What do you do to make childcare more affordable in the country. Whose answer was worse? next. Verybody. Now i sleep with inspire. Inspire? no mask? no hose? just sleep. Learn more, and view important safety information at inspiresleep. Com unnecessary action hero. . . 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Nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. Get allday and allnight heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. Choose acid prevention. Choose nexium. I think what i think what donald trump is really trying to do is be profamily. What i have said is we want the country to be more profamily. There are policy positions behind my view that the country should become profamily. It's become way too expensive's to raise a family. Have a lot of young women that want to have more children but for some reason i'm not able to. We want to solve that problem. In the seven weeks since j. D. Vance accepted the nomination for the vice president that has been his pitch. He is profamily. He will make the republican ticket more profamily and he has policy solutions to remove economic barriers preventing america from becoming more profamily. Last night at a turning point action event, mega pundit jd charlie kirk gave him a chance to put some detail on those policies. It's hard for working families to get by. Cavalry lower the cost of daycare. Such an important question. One of the things we can do is make it easier for families to choose whatever model they want. One of the ways you might be able to relieve pressure on people who are paying so much for daycare is make it so that, maybe grandma or grandpa wants to help out a little bit more. Maybe there's an aunt or uncle that wants to help out. If that happens you would leave some pressure on the resources we are spending on daycare. They are so much cheaper than childcare. Why didn't we think of that? there are a couple problems with this. First of all, not every new dad or new mom has a living parent. Secondly, many millennial parents are moving away from home base in large part because housing has gotten so expensive. A recent study shows only 55% of americans live within an hour drive of their extended family. 55% of americans that do live close to their parents might encounter a different problem. Their parents are often still working because either they want to or they have to which means dropping everything to do watch the grandkids comes at a cost. J. D. Vance himself knows something about this. Remember this old interview which resurfaced last month? it makes him a much better human being to have exposure to his grandparents. The evidence on this is super clear. That is the whole purpose of the postmenopausal female. Set aside for one minute that the purpose of the postmenopausal female is to watch her grandkids. That exchange was about his mother in law taking a yearlong sabbatical from her post as a molecular biology professor to look after his children. This should not bear explaining but not every working grandparent is a biology professor who can temporarily or permanently leave their job to watch the grandkids. Many of them are not even able to retire until after age 75. According to j. D. Vance the federal fix for daycare costs is to phone grandma. The postmenopausal female. That is her purpose. As for his running mate donald trump, he detailed his own plan? to lower childcare costs earlier today. If you win in november, can you commit to prioritizing legislation to make childcare affordable. If so, what specific piece of legislation will you advance. I would do that. We are sitting down here. I was somebody, we have senator marco rubio and my daughter he vodka was so impactful on that issue. It's a very important issue. I think when you talk about the kind of numbers that i'm talking about, because childcare is childcare. You know, you have to have it. In this country you have to have it, but when you talk about those numbers compared to the kind of numbers i'm talking about by taxing foreign nations childcare is childcare. You have to have it. I'm going to talk more about what exactly is going on with this republican ticket when my a while he joins be coming up next. To target tough pain at the source. For up to 8 hours of powerful relief. New advil targeted relief. When was the last time you checked in on your heart? with kardiamobile, the personal ekg device, you can check it from home using your smartphone. I use kardiamobile every day. Sometimes twice a day. Every morning i check, make sure i'm in good shape. And it makes me feel pretty good about my heart condition. It's a complete gamechanger. [chuckles] i mean, you might as well be in a doctor's office. There's a way i can communicate with patients now in a way i never could before. They have their own ekg in their pocket. 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One of the one of the ways you might be able to relieve a little bit of pressure on people who are paying so much for daycare is, make it so that maybe grandma or grandpa wants to help out a little more. There's an aunt or uncle that wants to help out a little bit more. The trumptran13 plan first rising childcare costs make your parents watch the kids nevermind that a lot more americans are working a lot longer. A survey found 43% of people between 55 and 64 did not even have a retirement account which probably makes it challenging to drop everything and go babysit. Joining me now is maya wiley, resident and ceo of the leadership conference on civil rights. Maya, it galls me that the republican party proposes itself to be the party of the working class that understands the economy and you have the vice presidential nominee out there proposing a solution that has nothing to do with the economic hardships faced by working people. They have nothing to do with understanding what most people in the country's lives are like. That's like when george bush ran and did not understand how cashiers worked at the grocery store. I am sorry, they want to raise the retirement age for social security benefits. The thing half of americans have to rely on in order to retire and then maybe be a caretaking grandparent, or, what if your mom gets alzheimer's or your dad has a stroke. Then what are you supposed to do? not only that, what if you moved away from your family because you couldn't afford the housing? the two most expensive costs of living for parents is housing and childcare. I'm sorry, what about the woman who is working in a prek as a teacher earning $40,000 a year with her own young child and she can't even afford the tuition for her own young child in the program she's teaching in but you want to tell her that her problem is that she had to get an education. Maybe you have cats, i don't know but i do. I have two little ones. I love my mom but she is not going to be a fulltime caregiver. I feel like this statement is so important to unpack because it hits at the social safety net which republicans want to got. There's a vast number of retirees that depend on social security benefits for 90% of their income. They do not care about healthcare in any meaningful way. If your parent has a stroke what do you do then. There's the cost of housing that this is obviously no to and then the fundamental equity. It is making up a fantasy about life in america. A fantasy you wish was true and we'll real. My biggest fantasy after starting my family was that my mom would be living at home with us. We did a three generation household. I was one of the lucky ones because we had a two paycheck family and could pay for child care. When i was counsel to the mayor and we were doing analysis on prek we knew that we were putting $5000 back into the pockets of families. It was an income inequality strategy that also benefited the educational futures of children. That is called problemsolving. That understands what people's lives are like. They want to create a fantasy to figure out how to eat, pay the rent, and get good care for our kids. The other part of it that is so weird that keeps happening with j. D. Vance is his obsession with controlling women. It's the role of the postmenopausal female, his recent jack about how women need to be having babies earlier. His obsession with when and how and if women bear children. The concerns he has about declining fertility. All of this paints a very, sort of, weird portrait of a man who was at once obsessed with control with women's bodies but is completely out of touch in terms of the realities. And has a working life as he denigrates women who work and a working grandparent. What world do you want? it sounds like you want it all and that means women are stuck with nothing. It is also what is exactly so alienating about it. Take childcare, 95% of people who own the facility or work in one is a woman. It is a 1% profit. The women working in those facilities are the working poor. They are working and they are poor. What does that tell us about this fantasy about work. The denigration of women who actually figured out a way to make it work. It's like we will penalize you no matter what. You and i know this because people like us have had to work and raise kids and other people's kids and our moms work. Even when they were postmenopausal. I have to ask because before we got into this segment because we played donald trump with a completely garbled statement on how to lower the cost of childcare. There was a pause after. It is completely meandering and nonsensical. I guess i wonder, does the absence of policy, the absence of true connection with the struggles of workingclass americans, the utter incoherence of this platform really matter to any of his adherence? clearly. I think this is a thing. A lot of people are starting to say, project 2025? you want to end head start programs? we are talking about childcare. That blueprint, that plan was created by trump administration officials as well as the base actually has a plan which is very clearly making sure that regular folks without regard to their politics don't get what they need. But here is the other thing. It is in working. There are a lot of people starting to scratch their heads. I think one of the things that we have two addresses the double standard in the media coverage. Let's face it, that was incoherent and why are we talking about his cognitive ability to be president. We tried. We are trying. He will be putting them on center stage tuesday night at the debate in philadelphia. J. D. Vance will keep jd vancing. Sometimes the only way sometimes the only way to find out is to look. This is a solution in search of a problem. Across the country republicans at all levels are implementing strategies remanence and of those used during the jim crow era. Despite the fact that voter fraud remains vanishingly small. This week in texas the attorney general suited to stop a voter registration effort in barra county. A democratic stronghold and home to a large latino community code activist in a row judge accuse an official of recruiting undocumented migrants to vote because she asked the poll workers if they spoke spanish. Gop activists in detroit recommended hanging up signs in ethnic neighborhoods warning people not to vote if they were not eligible. Joining me now is a nationally voting rights correspondent and the author of minority rule. We thought of you as soon as i heard this. I feel like this edges right up to the edge of the line between being legal and illegal. How are such tactics possible in the 21st century? what trump and his republican allies are doing is they are pushing the latest version of the big lie by fusing voter fraud paranoia with antiimmigration hysteria. They feel like if they can make people believe that noncitizens are voting, which they are not, they cannot only build support for new restrictions on voting, but they can build more support for new restrictions on immigration, which furthers the goal of trying to preserve conservative white power on multiple fronts. That is what you are suddenly hearing them talk about this issue so much. I do wonder though. The suggestion that she loved other roles and zero in on ethnic names. How is that legal? it is not illegal. Is is basically a form of racial profiling in voting. If that is indeed what they are doing. There is a lot of disturbing precedent here. I am in texas right now. A state where they tried to remove suspected noncitizens from the roles a few years ago. They ended up removing a lot of naturalized u. S. Citizens from the roles instead of that word is proportionally hispanic. This is a state where just recently you had s. W. A. T. Teams raiding the homes of 87 yearold women who are trying to assist people for voting. I think what they are trying to do is not only get people to believe a lot of things that are untrue, but this will have a chilling effect on voter participation and a chilling effect on the communities that republicans do not believe are going to vote for them. Can you talk more about the chilling effect? it seems like ane signs that warn people that they can be subject to criminal charges if they vote unlawfully seems like literally textbook voter intimidation. Even if you are here legally maybe you are just worried. Maybe there is some statute that you have run afoul of and you should not go into the voting booth. What kind of efforts are there underway to make sure that kind of tech doesn't succeed in keeping people away from the vote? i think it is just a part of the broader voter protection efforts that we are seeing in 2024 that will have to be larger than ever this year because we are seeing so many different attempts to try to restrict voter participation from intimidating people into not voting in passing laws to make it harder to vote in challenging election certification so that even if people overcome these barriers their votes could still be thrown out. This is a kitchen sink strategy by republicans to make voting difficult in so many different ways and there has to be an overwhelming effort to make people think that they can vote and that their vote will be counted and that they should be able to do so free of intimidation and free of fear. Seems like it is twofold. The initial attempt to get them to stop it being or stop them from voting and then the second or effect of suggesting publicly if you are republican state official or election official something illegal happened at a certain county. That is where i think there is a lot of concern about what can happen after the fact. What is your level of concern about this being a longer preamble to crying election fraud after election day? there telegraphing that strategy right now. They are not just doing voter suppression on the front, but on the backend as well. The voter suppression on the backend is dramatically worse because if you throw out votes altogether that is the ultimate voter suppression strategy, which is what we are seeing them try to do in pl