Right. The economy does do better under democrats. And as vice president kamala harris announces a major plan to boost small businesses, economists are saying that trump's proposals, like for instance, tariffs, would actually hurt americans. Also tonight, we are just days into the new school year for many students, but we've already had our first school shooting, leaving four dead and several injured at a high school in georgia. Plus, breaking late today, republican liz cheney, who once said that donald trump is unfit for any office, announced that she will be voting for vice president kamala harris. But we begin tonight with it's the economy stupid. James carville's famoused a moe in addition from the 1992 election that remains true today. Polls show the economy continues to be the top issue for many voters, including inflation and affordability. And yet there is only one candidate who is proposing policies that would actually help americans. Vice president kamala harris. Here she is today in new hampshire. My vision of an opportunity economy is one where everyone can compete and have a real chance to succeed. Where everyone, regardless of who they are, where they start, can build wealth, including intergenerational wealth, where workers are treated with dignity and everyone has the freedom to join a union, if they choose. Where we remove barriers to opportunity, so anyone who wants to start a business, can have access to the tools and the resources they need to do that. The vp was there to unveil a big tax break proposal for small businesses. $50,000 to be exact for startup businesses, which would be a huge boost from the existing $5,000 tax break. And counter to the online trolls and far right commentators claiming she doesn't have any policies, this is just one of many that harris has begun to roll out regarding the economy. There's the plan to provide $25,000 in down payment assistance to firsttime home buyers. The plan to restore the expanded child tax credit. And at a $6,000 tax credit for parents of newborns. On healthcare she wants to expand the current $35,000 monthly cap on out of pocket cost for insulin. And expand the upcoming $2,000 annual limit on out of pocket costs for prescription drugs for medicare enrollees to all americans. She's also calling for a federal ban to end price gouging. Now let's compare that to donald trump's plans. In addition to extending and increasing his 2017 massive tax cut for the super rich and big businesses, he has proposed deporting roughly 11 million undocumented immigrants, which would cause huge problems for the agriculture and construction sectors, resulting in higher food and housing costs for americans. Also proposed imposing 10% tariff on all products imported to the u. S. And 60% on all chinese goods which essentially a tax on every single one of those goods. Meaning higher costs for american families. And his goto line for how he will somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat is drill baby drill. Ie by bringing energy costs down, all costs will come down. Okay, the problem with that plan is under the biden/harris administration, the united states is already producing more oil, not only than any other time in u. S. History, no, but more than any other country on the planet ever has ever. You don't need to take it from me, y'all. Moody's analytics found that harris' plans would cut the deficit by nearly $3 trillion, while trump's plans would add more than $2 trillion over the next ten years. And according to goldman sachs, the u. S. Economy growth would see a boost with a harris win. And would fall if trump returned to office. Yet when you ask your average voter who they trust more on the economy, they somehow often say trump and they often say well it's because he's a businessman. Okay. Well look at his current businesses. In addition to his six previous bankruptcies, six, his latest business endeavor, trump media, the social media company behind truth social, is headed in the direction of becoming unlucky number seven because over the past six months the stock price has dropped a whooping 70% and it is continuing to drop. Now, just think what it would be like if trump was again in control of the entire nation's economy. Joining me now robert ruysch, secretary of labor in the clinton administration, currently professor of public policy at uc berkeley. And alensia johnson. The author of the upcoming book flip the tables. I like that title. I will start with you. I want to talk about vice president harris first before we get to the trump of it all. These proposals that she's putting on the table, they are obviously aimed right at the middle class and working class and people who want to start businesses. Talk about the timing of that and the efficacy. Listen, i think it was perfect timing of her to make this announcement today. I was listening to a speech and she said for firsttime startup business owners they were going to have a $50,000 tax credit. Who wouldn't want to start a business under a harris administration? and this is coming off of the heels of the convention and the labor day and right before the debate. So the campaign and vice president harris are putting out tea leaves of her policy, actually some substantial pieces of her policy, but giving us tea leaves what she'll talk about the debate. We talked about the expanded child tax credit and the campaign is also making couching abortion and immigration so many other issues within the economy. This is a lot for voters to think about as they're going into the next 62 days towards election day as well as the critical debate on tuesday. And robert, you know, what happens with a democrat versus a republican is when trump says i'm going to magically make the economy better, the media goes, okay. That sounds good. A democrat says i'll do a $3,500 tax credit for newborns, they go, how are you going to pay for that? right? you on your social media say there's an obvious answer how it's paid for, but let's indulge our friends in my wonderful profession and ask, how would those ideas be funded? well, we don't know. The interesting thing about donald trump's economics, trump nomics there is no there there. There's nothing there. Every time you try to reach it, and try to understand what he's talking about, there's absolutely no content. He says that he wants to raise tariffs. He says that's going to be good for the economy. But, in fact, we all know a tariff is a tax on whatever is imported. We pay more because of a tariff. Donald trump's only other policy is to reduce taxes on mostly the wealthy and big corporations. As he did before. He promised, you remember, that that would improve everybody's bottom line by $4,000. Well, did it yours? did it mine? i can tell you i don't know anybody who got $4,000 wealthier because of the trump tax cut. And finally, joy, all of his notions about well, he's a successful businessman. I mean, the only success he's had is not as a businessman, but really as a con man. He's a successful con man. But if you had taken all of the money he got from his father and put it into an index fund, just a stock index fund, closed the door, never looked at it again, it would do better than he now has done. It would be actually he would be wealthier than he is today. Yeah. He lost money. He would be a billionaire. He would be an actual billionaire. He inherited $317 million from his father. And promptly lost $900 million in the business that one of the easiest businesses because he lost money on casinos in atlantic city. Supposed to be a builder. He lost money on that. He went deep in the hole, still got loans. Came back and now he's running this social media company that's actually failing. But i have to just go back to you just for a second, robert, because there is an answer. We know that a lot of what this election is about is about that gargantuan 2017 tax cut that is going to expire at the end of next december. They know a tariff is a tax. They're not stupid. They understand he's going to make everything more expensive. But they want that tax cut real bad. If you were to roll back that tax cut, just end it so that the super rich billionaires no longer had that, wouldn't that provide enough money to be able to do the things that vice president harris is looking to do? it would provide almost enough. You probably would also have to roll back the george w. Bush tax cuts for the wealthy to bring the deficit down and do everything that vice president harris wants to do. Thank you for doing that. Very important to get the real economist information here. Alencia, back to you. I know it must drive democrats crazy when people say they think they want a republican because they think that they'll do better economically. Because it's or that they had more money under trump. Because that is just impossible because the economy cratered under trump because of covid. Is that a messaging problem for the democrats? and by the way, that gap has closed. Kamala harris has closed that gap with donald trump considerably. He's still leading on the question of who would they trust more on the economy. It must drive democrats nuts. Yeah. Look, this is a messaging thing that isn't new in this cycle and something that republicans for some reason tend to go up by the billionaires that benefit from their tax credits and their policies are the ones that can fund the ads. That can get the messaging out there, right? but the numbers show us that the economy actually does weather better under democrats, not just president biden but obama, clinton and so on and so forth. And so, i do think there has been a shifting tide in the conversation about the middle class and low income folks and why they are feeling the pain when it comes to their finances. I mean, the 2020 cycle, you know, in the primary, i worked for senator elizabeth warren and her presidential campaign. And she, along with others, including then senator harris were all talking about what we can accomplish if we make these millionaires and corporations and billionaires pay their fair share. That's all we're asking is for them to pay their fair share and then the economy can work for the majority of us. I love there's so many articles out there now showing reports from economists saying, hey, even under democrats the economy does better. There will be more jobs. I think i read somewhere today that under a president harris there will be 10,000 more jobs a month in the economy. So, there's so much to so much here for democrats to communicate. I think we've got to really hone in on this messaging. But the reality is this making the billionaires and corporations pay their fair share, that is actually pushing through and folks are understanding that and showing that they're starting to trust democrats more with the economy. Yeah. Democrats are the cleanup man and cleanup in their case she doesn't have to because it's been biden. They're the cleanup person and come up and clean up a crappy economy they get from every republican. Robert, last to you. Kroger admitted, we were making the prices artificially high on your groceries. Sorry. But they're doing it. A lot of the price gouging, joy, comes from the fact that there's not enough competition. These big corporations are now bigger and more concentrated and have less competition than they have had any time in the last 50 years. And as a result, they can keep prices high. Now, what the biden administration has done, and i'm very, very thankful for it, has been more aggressive with anti trust, antimonopoly law than any administration, any democratic administration in the last 75 years. But there's much, much more to do. Thank you both. We always appreciate a little truthiness when it comes to the economy. Thank you both. Coming up, a dramatic move from republican liz cheney, who just endorsed democrat kamala harris. More on that development. And trump's struggling, struggling campaign next. Where'? i really tried sleeping with it, everybody. Now i sleep with inspire. Inspire? no mask? no hose? just sleep. Learn more, and view important safety information at inspiresleep. 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Plus, get up to $800 off google pixel 9 phones. Switch today! do you ever look at the rambling, incoherent nonsense that comes out of donald trump's presidential campaign and think to yourself, do republicans actually want to win this election? well, it turns out some of them don't. Politico was reporting today that some republicans are secretly rooting for trump to lose, including some longstanding republican figures throughout the nation who bleed red and wouldn't dare to say this publicly, but who are more than ready to move on from the trump era. Which is nothing new. Many republicans have been privately wishing trump would just go away since he came down that escalator in 2015. But weirdly none of them have the guts to say it outloud. Instead, they stood by him, through everything, through his vulgarity and sexual abuse of e. Jean carroll. And when he tried to overturn an election using a violent coup. They didn't have the courage to impeach him then and they certainly don't have the courage to stand up to him now. Even as he's turning arlington national cemetery as a campaign prop and flirting with becoming a dictator. They are operating in a fantasy land, one where trump loses and just poof, magically goes away on his own accord. They're quietly hoping that democratic voters will do for them what they are too cowardly to do themselves. There are a few exceptions, of course, however. Including former republican congresswoman liz cheney who just in the last hour said this at duke university. As a conservative, as someone who believes in and cares about the constitution, i have thought deeply about this and because of the danger that donald trump poses, not only am i not voting for donald trump but i will be voting for kamala harris. Joining me now is matthew dowd, former republican strategist and msnbc senior political analyst. Always good to see you, matthew. If you had told me even four years ago that liz cheney, someone who stands at the complete diametric spectrum on the opposite of kamala harris and me and most people who probably watch msnbc would be endorsing the next the democratic candidate for president, i would have said get out of here. Not possible. But here we are. Why is he is so few in number? because she put country other her personal ego and personal power. That's kind of why it is. The gutless sort of confederacy of republicans refuses to put the country first, like joe biden did in what he did a month and a half ago. That's why they don't understand it. That's why they think it's some big machination. They don't understand there's actually some people who believe in something more than personal power and personal ego. Yeah. And liz cheney i've known liz for 20 something years. I did debate prep with liz for her father's debate back in 2004. And i agree with you. I mean, liz cheney and the cheneys at the time in 2004 they thought they were the conservatives and bush was less of a conservative than they were. That's how they approach it for her to endorse in this race is not only just attacking trump and saying how dangerous trump is, but for her to say she's going to vote for vice president harris is very significant. Not only that, i mean, jimmy mccain, john mccain's son has switched parties to become a democrat and will vote for vice president harris. Let me adam kinzinger. He is a right winger, y'all. Let's just be very clear. He is a conservative, conservative. Here he is calling out someone else that i know that you know, condoleezza rice, national security adviser to president bush, george w. Bush, and she says i spoke with brett baier about my essay and why isolationism has never been the answer to united states security or prosperity. America still needs the world. Adam kinzinger says you're not fighting against isolationism. You're fighting against trump. Say this outloud. No more straddling the fence, republicans. You're for or against trump. Pick a side. To go on from that, matthew, this politico column today i found to be one of the most embarrassing statements of cowardliness i ever heard of. These are what the republicans rather than just fight trump, they're asking themselves would it be best to endorse a harris presidency to keep trump out of power for good. He would only serve one more term and be done for certain in to 28. As if he would leave. They seem to miss the whole plot. Yeah. Well, they miss the plot because they fundamentally are not being honest with us or anyone that the problem is not donald trump. I mean, yes, donald trump is a proximate problem. The problem is they have a base of the republican party, who has been lied to, who has been told things that are completely untrue, about democrats, about the world, about the healthcare, about everything. They've been lied to over and over and over again. Now they created this monster and think the democrats can cut the part of the monster's finger off but the monster is still sitting over there with nine fingers and ten toes and huge limbs that they have not dealt with and they created this problem. They want the democrats to temporarily solve it. But even if the democrats are able to win and solve that part of the problem, they got the problem is that any other candidate is going to need to act like donald trump until they tell the base the truth. And rice is one of those people. Where is she? where is george w. Bush? where are these republicans who used to be the center of the party? they're so quiet, matthew. Well, i have to tell you, there's so many people in the last ten years, as i know you have, have disappointed you in their inability to show leadership in a moment in time when all americans should care. Two of the most that i've been disappointed are two people i've worked with. Continue lisa rice and george w. Bush. George w. Bush and condoleezza rice both know better. They know donald trump. They know what he's done to the republican party. They know all that. Why do they not? we would have to interview them and ask them directly why they don't speak up and say something in the course of this. My guess is, for condoleezza rice, she likes to wear that green jacket known as the masters in augusta, walk around with all her other buddies. And sort of say and act like she's nonpartisan and just here for america. But at this moment in time, those two who i know are probably to me the most disappointing in leadership in this country. Yeah. And we don't have time, but we could go on about the rest of that article saying that they're actually counting on vice president harris winning and then stopping her from being able to accomplish anything. Thinking that, ahha we'll get the house and senate back. That's the most cynical crap. They don't want the country to succeed. They want trump to go away, go away. That's not how it works. Matthew dowd, thank you very much. Coming up, the school year has just started for many students and there's already been a tragic school shooting. David hogg joins me next to talk about america's gun crisis. E nek about america's gun crisis (music playing) one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food, no family dinners, no special treats, not enough energy to play. All around the world, hunger is affecting children's physical and mental health. Toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. Kids are forced to drop out of school so they can help support their families. Conflict, inflation and climate have ignited the worst famine in our lifetime, and we are fed up! fed up that hunger devours dreams. Fed up, that hunger destroys joy. 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Org, today. ♪♪ today we got a horrific reminder of the fear american school kids and their parents live in. Another school shooting. The worst kind of only america tragedy from a country that sees more of these incidents than anywhere else in the world. The latest example was in northwest georgia, about 45 miles outside of atlanta today. At least four people were killed and nine others injured when gunfire broke out at apalachee high school. The suspect is alive and in custody. Students were evacuated to the football stadium after the school was placed on lockdown. The georgia bureau of investigation confirmed that the dead included two students and two teachers. And identified the shooter as a 14yearold male. He will be charged as an adult with murder. Apalachee high school had been in session since august 1st. District schools will remain closed for the rest of the week. Sadly today's shooting in georgia is not the first at a school since the new school year started. According to every town for gun safety, there were 133 incidents of gunfire on school grounds in america in the calendar year 2024, prior to today. Resulting in 38 deaths and 81 injuries. In a statement, president biden called for new gun safety legislation to end america's epidemic of gun violence. And in new hampshire, vice president kamala harris addressed the tragedy in georgia. Our hearts are with all the students, teachers and their families, of course. We're grateful to the first responders and law enforcement on the scene. But this is just a senseless tragedy on top of so many senseless tragedies. It's just outrageous that everyday in our country in the united states of america, that parents have to send their children to school worried about whether or not their child will come home alive. It's senseless. We've got to stop it. And we have to end this epidemic of gun violence in our country once and for all. You know, it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be this way. Meanwhile, the usual list of georgia republicans offered their thoughts and prayers to the apalachee high school community. Georgia governor, brian kemp, urged georgians to join my family in praying. You may remember his infamous his 2018 ad brandishing a gun in front of his daughter's boyfriend. Congressman mike collins, who represents the town where the shooting occurred also said he was praying. Here is his video blow away the democrats truthful claims the 2020 election wasn't stolen. Marjorie taylor greene also offered her prayers. Blowing away. One of her many times she has shown the adoration machines too often used to kill students. David hogg the founder for march for our lives and president of leaders we deserve. David, i'm so sorry to have to have you come back on for this. It was much more fun talking with you about the newly minted vice presidential running mate. But here we are again. Your thoughts. Well, i'm just tired of having to be on here, as much as i love talking to you, joy. I really wish i didn't have to continue talking about this. I wish that we had a government that did its damn job and protected our kids and protected the future of our country. This is the leading cause of death for young people in the united states. The leading cause of death for the future of our country, right? we need to realize that after parkland, i went out there and i with my classmates and we said, you're the adults. We're the kids. You need to do something. But guess what, now i'm one of the adults. We need to do something. Because we are failing the future of our country. We're failing our young people. What are we telling our young people? when the one place that they should be safe in their schools, period, is not a safe place. What are we telling them about their government and what it can do for them and if it can't keep them safe in their schools. Why would they continue participating? why would they continue voting and having faith that anything can get better when they aren't safe in those place. But despite all of that, young people are still protesting, we're still out there voting and voting as this is one of our top voting issues, as polling shows. But we have so, so, much work to do. We have to look back at 2018 and realize what made march for our lives so powerful isn't that we had a huge organization. It wasn't that we knew exactly what we were doing as teenagers. It's that we said to people, hey, we're going to go and march and show up in washington. If you want to show up in your community and march, you can do that. What we saw was millions of young people walk out of their schools and protest with us and march with us in the largest student protest ever in american history at the time. And we need to remember we need to be the leaders that we need but currently have far too few of and show up and show up at your school boards and state capitols to demand that our representatives represent us and not the gun lobby. To your point, the nbc news stay tuned gen z poll shows 85% of young people are concerned about gun violence. 59% are very concerned. Only 3% not at all concerned. Let's play someone who unfortunately was you, you know, having to witness this not too long ago because you are an adult but a very young adult. Here is a 14yearold student from apalachee high school today. I was crying. I didn't want to die that way. I don't really want to meet the lord that way. Some kids were telling others to stop crying because it was probably scaring them. It was really scary because he was just a kid that, like, he was just a quiet kid that sat in the back of the classroom. No one really knew who he was. I do wonder what it says about us as a country that we each time that we do this dance where we go through and the republicans say they're praying. They tell the kids, run, hide and pray. We're going to pray and not do anything. Donald trump has said he bragged in february that we did nothing for years. We did nothing about gun violence. The day he did thoughts and prayers as well. Called the shooter a deranged, sick monster. Okay. Okay. What are we doing about the monsters, that's the problem. Where are we arming them? that's the question we should be asking. We talk all this game. All over and over about mental health this, mental health that. I agree, we need to address mental health. A lot of has to school shooters we can't talk about the one today because details are still coming out but we know the shooter in parkland, the best of my recollection had multiple therapists. We know people who are mentally ill far more likely to be a risk to themselves than others. We can't stigmatize mental illness in the case of the buffalo shooter, that specifically went to that community to murder black people or the el paso shooter and used that as an excuse not to talk about what drives much of the gun violence in this country, which is white supremacy. Period. And it's individual white supremacy. The shooter at my high school was mentally i'll but made racist comments over and other again. Hatred is not a mental illness. And we need to realize we need more mental health obviously in our community but we shouldn't let that stop us from addressing the fact we can't just address why does somebody warrant to kill somebody else. We have to address no other country in the world is it as easy for a deranged person to get a gun, like it is in the united states. Period. It's not. And there are people with mental health issues in every country in the world. There are people playing video games in every country in the world. People have stress and racism and all the isms. It's only here that kids can't go to school without knowing how to hide from a mass shooter and have to risk dying in the fourth grade, third grade, high school, it's insane. On a college campus. It's only here, y'all. At a certain point, it's a guns. David hogg, thank you so much. Thank you for all the work you're doing. Up next, new reporting reveals that, oh, here she is again. Ginni thomas, wife of justice clarence thomas, privately praised and thanked a group working against the supreme court reform. We'll be right back. Preme court forerm we'll be right back. For more te farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again. ♪ farxiga ♪ ♪ farxiga ♪ ♪ farxiga ♪ ♪ farxiga ♪ ask your doctor about farxiga. Why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i need it a little cool and i need it a lot of cool. We're both cool like that. Sleep number does that. Actively cools and warms on each side. 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(♪♪) arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Arexvy is number one in rsv vaccine shots. Rsv? make it arexvy. The supreme court is taking a break from stripping your rights and boosting those of corporations and donald trump. Which means justice clarence thomas is on his annual rv trip, yeah. But not before telling a judicial conference that his family faced nastiness and lies while calling the works in a hideous place. Thomas and his wife ginni receiving luxury gifts paid for by republican donors who just happen to have cases before the court. Because of their choices, the supreme court announced an unenforceable set of ethics standards today and today ethics standards and today we found out that ginni thomas and apparently other judges do not like being held to account. Even a little bit. According to propublica, she sent an email to the ceo of first liberty institute, a group that opposes court reform and has ties to project 2025. And thanked them for their work pushing back. The ceo read her email outloud to its top donors. People on this call are very top supporters. Um, i got a i got an email today from ginni thomas, justice thomas' wife, so i want to read that to you. You guys have filled the sails of many judges. Can i just tell you, thank and this is all caps thank you so, so, so much. Joining me now is former assistant u. S. Attorney and currently president of the leadership conference on civil and human rights. Maya, why is this lady still sending emails? because she can get away with it and she don't care. Clearly. I mean, clearly. Because this is she has just said the not quiet part even louder. So the not quiet part is, we already knew because she was sending all those emails on january 6th, she was spreading trump's big lies. Her husband clarence thomas did not recuse himself from cases related to things she herself was advocating on and none of that has anything to do with the all the gift buying that you already mentioned at the top of the segment. Including the rv. Including the rv and including the fact that they were literally accepting tuition payments and home mortgage assistance from harlan crowe in 2009, when citizen's united was under discussion before the supreme court, he was actively funding dark money work, including ginni thomas' organization. So this is dirty, smelly, i can't even go into all the adjectives that come to mind. But my point about this is in july, i mean, after all this, after clarence thomas has to go back and disclose all these things he never disclosed before because he was outed by propublica and other investigative reporting and then now she still says the quiet part outloud because, remember, every single federal court judge except supreme court justices are already accountable under ethics codes that there is no binding, enforceable code for the supreme court. So when she says a lot of judges you made their day, she's not talking about other judges. She means the supreme court. She means judge justice alito, she means justice clarence thomas, she's saying it outloud that they have, put wind in the sails of the people who are making clear to the american olympic that we have something to worry about in terms of influence over the highest court in the land. I still want to know how kavanaugh paid off his massive debts. That's still weird. I want to know about that. Amy coney barrett supports a ethics code for the supreme court. Kagan called for better enforcement. Here is justice jackson on a code of ethics. A binding code of ethics is pretty standard for judges. And so i guess the question is, is the supreme court any different? and i guess i have not seen a persuasive reason as to why the court is different. Feel like nobody has. And when justice kagan said essentially the same thing, kelly shackleford, the guy who read the email. This is treasonist what kagan this is elena kagan support what had justice jackson. The chief justice rules the court. They're trying to keep the other branchs hands off of them, kagan being somewhat disloyal. They think it's treasonist to say, oh, don't accept gifts from people with stuff before the court. Treasonist. Accountability is treasonist. Yes, it is. Accountability to the american public when you have a lifetime appointment. Yeah, but they want their gifts and their stuff. I would say the thing about what justice ketanji brown jackson said is she was being gentle. And i'm going to say it much more sharply. The highest court in the land cannot be above the ethics obligation of every other lower court judge. That not only makes no sense, the same justices that have the power to say whether or not you are talking about gun control gun reform and the impacts on real people. They're the ones deciding whether states and localities can actually do some common sense regulation that the american public is asking for. They have power over that. And yet they don't have to be accountable and disclose and be accountable to whether people who disagree with that position, who may be supporting litigation that's before them, they don't have to even be accountable to us and transparent to us so that we can demand their recusal, put pressure on them for that? somehow it is treasonist that they be accountability to we the people when they have power over whether or not we can get married and who we can get married to and whether or not we have contraception or whether or not the government can come into our bedrooms, what happens when we show up at the polling site and whether our votes count. But all these people who have money in politics can do whatever they want. They and donald trump. We have to remember that they also said he has absolute power and he's not he can't be restrained. Maya wily, thank you very much. We want to be clear who has power, seven people. Coming up, a federal judge ordered trump, the aforementioned to stop using an isaac hayes song at his his son, isaac hayes the third, joins me next. Ext. When did i call leaffilter? when i saw my gutters overflowing onto my porch. Leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so, you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. It's the easiest call you can make. Call 833. Leaf. Filter today, or visit leaffilter. Com. Why do couples choose a sleep number smart bed? i sleep great now that my side is as firm as my heart desires. My heart desires soft. Sleep number does that. Your ideal firmness and effortless comfort, all night. During our biggest sale of the year, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. Shop now at a sleep number store near you. Ed gutters. Call leaffilter today. And never clean out clogged gutters again. Leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. Guaranteed. Call 833. Leaf. Filter today, or visit leaffilter. Com. (♪♪) behind every splenda product is a mission. Helping millions of people reduce sugar from their diets. Now try a sweetener grown by u. S. Farmers. Introducing zerocalorie splenda stevia. At splenda stevia farms, our plants are sweetened by sunshine. Experience how great splenda stevia can be. Grown on our farm, enjoyed at your table. (♪♪) ♪ i'm komen ♪ i'm komen i'm coming ♪ the former presidents cannot play list when he does his little arm list is joining is growing day by day after a judge issued an injunction, ordering it to stop using the music of isaac hayes. The estate of the late music legend is demanding $3 million for 134 separate uses of the song after they asked the campaign to desist. Trump regularly used it last year. Has a state is one of many objecting to the use of their music. It is a noteworthy list including beyonce and friends. While abbott, the white stripes and celine dion are raising objections in the last month alone. The trump campaign is left scratching the bottom of the barrel for music. Don't worry though, donald. You still have kid rock and lara trump. Go for it. Joining me now is isaac hayes iii, son of isaac hayes, and james walker junior, the lawyer representing the estate. Your thoughts on this victory. First i want to give my condolences to the lives lost at the apalachee high school shooting. I am excited about this victory. This is a victory, an injunction against trump using hold on i'm coming without a license, because there is no license. I am excited about that and it leads us to another next step to resolving this issue with the trial or litigation and settlement. Do you expect to be able to collect this? donald trump is famous for not being able to pay his debts. Yes. And again i send my condolences to the rooms. We do know that donald trump and the other victims and i should say thank you, you broke this story a month ago, so we want to make sure we thank you for being the first to bring us on national tv. Thank you. But, yes, he will pay us. We are more concerned that donald trump doesn't like to follow the rules. And there are rules for a reason. Thank you for saying that, very kind. I really want to come back to you because the reality is that donald trump wants very badly to use the culture of people that he doesn't even seem to respect and a culture he doesn't respect, but he likes using the music. What do you make of his desire to use not just the music of your dad but also adele and aerosmith and the beatles and beyonce. He is not into any of this culture, but he sure does want to use the music. It is par for the course for people like donald trump but like to exploit culture for their benefit, but don't want to contribute to it. We call them culture vultures. Donald trump is one. He wants to parade around people like kid rock who are not relevant at all, but he wants to borrow from the hip hop community whenever he can. Sneakers and doing podcast and stuff like that he thinks will appeal to the black community, but we are smarter than that and we know better than that and we understand exactly where donald trump comes from when he acts like that. Have you spoken with attorneys for other artists? some have justin cease and desist and you guys with the next step of suing. You know other artists thinking about doing what you did? i have spoken to a few that i can't disclose at this point, but the problem they are having is unlike isaac hayes, many don't own the copyright and it is hard when you don't own the copyright. One of the issues in court yesterday is donald trump's team had to contend we don't have the copyright and this young man and his team showed the judge, no, we turn a mated any assignment and got the copy back and we can sue whoever we want to and tell whoever we want to whether or not they use it. A lot of artists, celine dion for example, i don't think she owns her copyright. Your copyright is probably owned by a bigger publishing company. They will not go after trump because they are publicly traded and have officials on their board and they can't be on this kind of fight. That is important context. What do you think your father would think of donald trump? i have said it before. He would not want to be any part of this circus. This speaks to, like i said, the larger issue. My father lost the rights to his music a year before i was born. It took 56 years just to get hold on i'm coming back and here we are again with someone stepping on our rights when we fought hard to get them back. This is more conversation about trump and understanding he can just do what he wants to end a message for other artists to understand publishing, anything after 1978 comes back after 35 years. I just started the termination to recapture copyright. When situations like this come up you can do exactly what i did and protect your copyright. Quickly day very quick. We worked for two weeks nonstop. We had eight working on this. All these people working. Appreciated. We are we are out of time. I appreciate it. I wish we had more time, but we are in the next person show. Isaac hayes iii, thank you very much. That isht