Transcripts For MSNBC Dateline 20240901

Don't think of them. The pain becomes a part of you. Get everybody out here to my house now. He came home and found her, his entire family gone. I said what are you talking about, what are you saying? it was surreal. As fellow cops suspected him. I did not do this. I did not do this. She was upset. She felt like history is repeating itself. Or police just plain wrong? it's like a twilight zone. Lies become truth and the truth becomes lies. May be the real killer was still out there. You have lied to the police about this case. So devastating. We know that was probably the key to solving this. 13 years of hell. Such an awful crime. The wife, the little boy and girl, shot at pointblank range. I was dumbfounded with shock. How to comprehend it? i said what, wait, what are you talking about, what are you saying? the husband had an alibi. He could have done anything, but he didn't. 13 years, three trials, appeals, reversals and changing stories. The big picture here for a lot of people as it sounds like a crime. It doesn't pass the sniff test. There's a lot of things about this case that doesn't make sense. It has been a long winding pursuit of justice is one family sees it. It gets more and more wrong. I kind of adopted the say that when you enter into the courtroom, lies become truth and the truth becomes lies. But there is another side, another family, one who sees a terrible miscarriage of justice. You wonder if everybody got three trials how many guilty people would be out walking the streets. But, there is one indisputable truth. Ken, jill and bradley campbell were nothing less than innocence lost that evening. Every day, i will tell you whoever says that time heals has never lost a child. I can tell you that time doesn't heal anything. The pain becomes a part of you. Times. Turn the clock back to the year 2000, september 28, to be precise, thursday after work. The place, a church rec center jim in georgetown, southern indiana. A pickup basketball game was underway with the usual thursday night guys. This was just you guys getting together? david kamm, a 36yearold manager and a waterproofing business was a regular. We play a little basketball in indiana. That name after the game wrapped up david headed straight home. Usually they would help kim with the kids in the evening but on this night he was late and he knew kim would not be happy about that. They got to get their homework done before they went to bed and i thought, she's going to be upset when i get home because i'm not there to help. As he rolled into his driveway he clicked the garage door opener. The nightmare awaited him. Once the garage door raised up just above the head of my truck is when i saw kim. She was down on the garage floor? yes. Actually, at first i thought it was jill laying there. I did not realize it was kim until i got out of my truck and ran into the garage and that is when i saw that it was kim. How do you take this in? it's too much to absorb. It's indescribable what was going through my mind at the time. Kim was still, bent slightly at the waste, long pool of blood from her head. When did you look in the to the vehicle? i don't remember how long it was but after checking on kim, being assured in my mind that she was gone, i just suddenly thought about the kids, where are the kids, and my first instinct was to look into the bronco and i got up on the passenger seat and i could see more into the back and that is when i saw brad and jill. Jill, still buckled and on the back passenger side, was slumped over. There was blood in her hair. Next to her, brad seem to be clambering over the seat. It was apparent even in your shock that this was a gunshot event? i did not know how it had died. So he was in the consul? over the top of the consul. That's how i got in there and got brad. Bradford, felt warm to you? yes and i thought he might have a chance. David had been an indiana state trooper for almost 11 years. That night in the garage she says his police training kicked in. It seemed to him that his daughter, jill, was dead but if there was even a whisper of a chance for his son, brad, david knew he had to get them out of the bronco and give him cpr. I picked him up and pulled him into me and turned around and went back out the same way that i came in. Came out the passenger door, put him down on the garage floor and started working on them? i just remember looking at his face. And like with jill, his eyes, there was no moisture and they were half shut. It was pretty obvious that he was gone. And this has all happened and what, 47 45 seconds in real life? yeah, probably. Maybe a minute. Kneeling on the garage floor amidst the bodies of his family, david knew he had to get help. He called the indiana state police where he used to work. Lester holt: your family dead, murdered, how do you even begin to absorb that? david camm's david camm's 13 year journey into hell was only minutes old. Coming up they were beating on the door, nelson, come quick. Somebody's killed my family. Your family dead, murdered. How do you even begin to absorb that? all these things spinning around inside my head. Is this real? am i really here? it's surreal. He actually was laying back, saying why did they have to go? there was more pain, much more still to come, when dateline continues. Dateline co in people 60 years and older. Arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Arexvy is number one in rsv vaccine shots. Rsv? make it arexvy. Did you know, sweat from stress arexvy is number one in rsv vaccine shots. Is actually smellier than other kinds of sweat? that's why i use secret clinical antiperspirant. It works on sweat from: stress, heat and activity. It provides 3x stress sweat protection. Secret works. [♪♪] with dexcom g7, managing your diabetes just got easier. So, what's your glucose number right now? good thing you don't need to fingerstick. How's all that food affect your glucose? oh, the answers on your phone. What if you're heading low at night? [notifications ringing] wow, it can alert you?! and you can even track your goals. Manage your diabetes with confidence with dexcom g7. The most accurate cgm. Learn more at dexcom. Com. The most accurate cgm. His wife, little boy and girl had been murdered. After trying unsuccessfully to revive his son, david camm says he came home one night in the fall of 2000 to in unimaginable horror. Horror. His wife, little boy and girl had been murdered. Get everybody out here to my house now. After trying unsuccessfully to revive his son, david run across the street. Across the street. I to check on jill, his daughter in the bronco, and nelson says he made his way carefully to the vehicle. Door. David was beating on the door and hollering nelson, nelson, come quick. They're all dead, they're all dead. Nelson dropped everything and raced over to david's garage. I was dumbfounded. I was shocked what i saw. David yelled at him to check on jill, his daughter from the bronco and nelson said he made his way carefully to the vehicle. Like david, he was a former state trooper and knew the crime scenes had to be preserved. I looked in the back seat i looked in the back seat and that is when i saw little jill back there. I reached back and i touched her arm or shoulder, something and i said jill, jill. You knew she was gone? i knew she was gone and i said dave, i think they're all gone, buddy. He actually went down to the ground, was laying on his back ground, was laying on his back rolling around and saying why, and i wanted to make sure that i didn't do anything to hamper it. Why did i have to go? what didn't i stay with them? uncle nelson managed to get dave away from the garage. Dave is trying his best to get back in. I wouldn't let him go back in. I knew it had to be done because i knew we had a horrific crime scene and i wanted to make sure i didn't do anything to hamper it. David camm says he was way beyond understanding anything that night but the questions wouldn't stop. Just all these things spinning around inside my head. Spinning around inside my head. Isere introduced by marcy mcleod. Marcy had been best friends with kim ever since ninth grade am i really here? did i really just fine kim and brad and jill as they are? it was just surreal. It was just surreal. That night was the end of everything david and kim had built together. They had met in the late 1980s. They were introduced by marcy mcleod. Marcie had been best friends with kim ever since ninth grade. She was very quiet for she was very quiet for people that didn't know her but very funny, very loyal, very sweet. David and kim married in 1989. They threw a big fun party then got on with their lives. Kim incorporate accounting and oh, yash. An indian trooper, a career kim had encouraged him to pursue. Here he is in uniform being 1990s about road safety during the holidays. The big hat seemed tailormade for david camm. For david camm. He was soon a member of and left the band of brothers. Boy, it must have been hard to leave, dave. You know, it was, but i mean, you had this good thing elite emergency s. W. A. T. Team. That is a band of brothers? exactly. Love those guys. We're talking about guys he would literally die for. Overtime after the kids were born, david wanted to spend more time with his family, so in may 2000, he went to work as a manager in his uncle sam a manager in his uncle sam lockhart's business that they would always be my friends and that they would always have my back if i ever needed them. The band of brothers. It must've been hard to leave there. You had this good thing you're going to and wanted to have more of life but yet i can see how much he liked being in law enforcement. Yes, i felt like i was at a point in my life when i needed point in my life when i needed to make that change wanted to make that change, and i presumed that i would remain close with these guys, that they would always be my friends and they would always have my back if i ever needed them. By september 2000, the cams seemed to be living a picture perfect life. Things are going well at home and at work. Kim was a totally engaged mother. David's uncle sought the camm family all the time. Great mom. The kids were like my grandkids. Little jill yeah, she she is a kick. She was a character. She really was. Just a funny little girl. Just a funny little girl. If she didn't havedants of nine brothers and sisters on david's mother's side. The lockhart's were so entrenched attention, she would get it. She was very i think she would've been very athletic. She was gifted in that way. And brad was a swimmer? he loved it. He was great at it. Being a father i thought, this kids good. Raced through two families w david sprawling extended family, the lockhart's, descendents of nine brothers and sisters on david's mother's side. They were so entrenched in this patch of southern indiana that they had a road named after them, lockhart road where david's family lived. David's family lived. There cannot of been i guess that she could gather up and was holding them and just better place for us to be when all of this terrible stuff happened. The awful news raced through two families that night. David sister, julie, was getting ready to go to bed when the phone rang. I said what, what are you talking about? julie went straight to her parents house. Parents house. Mom had all the well, it can't be good. So i go out and i open the door, and i brad and jill i guess that she could gather up and was holding them and sitting on the floor and just rocking and saying my babies, my babies, somebody has babies, my babies, somebody has killed my so i got out there. David sent his uncle to tell kim's parents, janice and frank renn. Late at night the doorbell rings, what can this be? well, it can't be good so i go out and open the door and i see him standing out there and i think my mind just went blank. She yelled for me to get out she yelled for me to get out there so when i got in the indiana state police would be on the front line. Samhsa got some bad news. Kim and brad and jill have been shot. With that i just kind of slid down to a sitting position. I sat there and cried and could not believe it. On lockhart road, the sound of sirens followed by sirens. The sound of investigation was beginning in david's friends and colleagues in the indiana and colleagues in the indiana state police front line. Never seen dishes before. Never. Never. When dateline continues. Herbal essences is packed with naturally derived plantbased ingredients your hair will love. Our sulfate free collections smell incredible and leave your hair touchably soft and smooth. Herbal essences. Andennis murphy: ar tmother, son and daughter. Gunned down in the garage of the family home made it out of the back seat of the bronco. Who hurt them? the answer to that question would be the responsibility of the investigators, indiana state police and the floyd county prosecutor. He got the call at 10, 10:30 that night. It was horrible, yeah. Faith knew immediately that the case would be big. He got to the crime scene asap. The first thing the prosecutor noticed was the ribbon of blood running out of the garage right down the drive. I almost stepped in it myself. He could see the wife and mother, kim camm , line by the open passenger door, her pants removed. At the signature of a crime, the children killed because they were witnesses. A gray sweatshirt was beside the boy, and article of clothing that would become important over time. The state police, indiana's top investigative force, had already began its work. The crime scene text examined the bronco, took the measurements in the pictures, and stan faith studied the scene. Was there anything auto as it turns too soon to take all that stuff in? the thing that struck me the most is how clean the garage was. Some of the troopers in the garage had been fellow officers of david camm. There were a couple i didn't really recognize but for the most part they were people that i knew. The trooper who would become the lead investigator was david's childhood friend. Dave, we got know you we've got to clear you first and i kept saying just do it right. I said that repeatedly. You know because of your experience they always look at the spouse. Sure, everybody's a suspect. In the beginning, you don't know. But in his case, david thought, it was a by the book formality. He was confident his friends would do all they could to find the killer. These were your brothers in uniform, these guys. Right. You have written with them. You've done a lot of tight stuff with them. They had been to my house. We had eaten together. We knew each other's families. I'm here at the indiana state police post. In this audiotape of his first interview that night you can hear the troopers handling him with kid gloves out of respect. Were trying to find out what happened here. Do it right. Exactly. The questioner walked to david through his day, and his wife's. As far as david knew, she had followed her usual busy routine working then shepherding the kids around after school, returning home about 7:30 p. M. Was the shooter waiting for her in the garage, or did her killer follow her in? the investigators asked david if anyone had been stocking kim, bothering her? how about phone calls? any hangup phone calls, suspicious phone calls? not really. They wanted to know if the husband could help them understand an audit about the crime scene. Why would kim's shoes have ended up neatly placed atop the roof of the bronco? to she ever kicked her shoes off when she's driving? never. She hates that. Never. You saw the shoes, though. Demonstrated it. 's investigators wrapped up they made sure he got some first clothing because they were sending his bloodspeckled speakers and tshirt out for testing. We will work as hard as we can to resolve this. The next day, the canvas neighbors were stunned by a crime of this magnitude in their quiet community. It makes no sense. There's never been any trouble out here to speak of. As the hunt for the killer continued, investigators asked neighbors if they had seen or heard anything suspicious. Right now this is very much an open investigation. Three days after the murders, david can face the cameras. I want my family back. I want my babies back. He begged the killer to come forward. Turn yourself in. You can't live with the guilt. What you did was such an irrational, ridiculous, ludicrous, satanic thing. You cannot you cannot live with that guilt. An arrest in the case was only hours away. Coming up i'm a mess. I'm on medication you know, i'm having to buy caskets, having to buy burial plots. A husband and father in morning about the face the second biggest surprise of his life. I'm just telling you what we you know. It's wrong. You're wrong. You are wrong, wrong, wrong. When dateline continues. Here's my tip. Smoking any type of cigarette can cause a stroke. 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Serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. Show off to the world. Ask your eczema specialist about dupixent. U. S. Central u. S. Central command announcing a successful raid against isys in western iraq. The military saying the isys element was armed with weapons and explosive suicide belts. 15 isys operatives were killed, no civilians injured. Republican presidential nominee in florida photo donald trump saying he will vote to keep florida's sixweek abortion ban before most women know they are pregnant. That question will be on the florida ballot in november. For now, back to dateline. Rs ae murders, two families, the lockhart, uncles, aunts, nephews, nieces and kim's family were united in grief. We lost three wonderful people we love dearly. We don't have them with us today. Edph just like that, gone. David was all but shutting down. I'm a mess. I'm on medication, you know, i'm having and buy caskets, having to buy burial plots. You know i've got all the stuff going on. Three days after the murder the indiana state police called david in for a second interview. He sat down with two cops he knew well. After sharing coffee in cases with them for years. We are doing this all by the numbers. This time, the tone of the interview had changed because now, the investigators had a working theory of the murders and the evidence they were gathering pointed to none other than david camm as the killer. There one time fellow trooper, their lawenforcement brother was now quite possibly their man, a monster who had murdered his family. They had a timeline. The murders took place, they believed, between 9:15 and 9:30 that night after david returned home. N there was something unusual when we talk to them. They said it sounded like gunfire. The police canvas who had turned up a neighbor who said he heard noises that sounded like gunshots. David software this was going and pushed back. These are just facts. I'm just telling you, you know. It's wrong. I'm telling you people are confused. The time element is off. The investigators account had david camm square in the crosshairs. He came home from basketball and killed his family. I it's not right. It's not right. It's not right, guys. You are not right. You are wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. You are wrong. Darrell, you are wrong. This is not right. You're getting off the track. Something is not right here, now fix it. They told david about physical evidence they had collected. Specks of blood barely visible to the naked eye on the bottom of the tshirt he wore that night. A crime scene expert science had already told them the husband and father did it. 's blood on your shirt d e. T is a presumptive test that it is high velocity blood spatter. It is scientific documentation. The only way that comes office from blowback or blowout from a gunshot wound. Blood spatter, the case against david camm. That is supposed to be on my tshirt that i play ball and? it's on. Yeah. It's wrong, darrell. Now we got to figure out why. You'd better find another expert. But, the cops have full confidence in their man. I rely on this man and he is very well, he is renowned as far as his expertise. It is not something you just started to do yesterday. The noose was tightening even as david protested. The tshirt that i had on is what i had on. That's what i wore home and any blood it has got on it now came from either an impression of something i leaned on in the car, or it came off of brad himself. And, there was more. Signs of a cleanup that had to be david. Did you try to clean this up? no. This is ridiculous. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. I didn't cleanup. Somebody may have, but it was not me. That person is your suspect. There was something disturbing. The medical examiner found when she looked at jill, the young daughter, signs of blunt trauma in the area. To the cops that meant one thing. David camm had molested his daughter. If she was molested it happened that day, that night. That is what happened. And it was not by me. That is wrong here. You guys are wrong. I did not do this. I did not do this. I don't know. That's why i called you guys. That's what your job that is what you are supposed to be doing. You are looking so hard at me. We've been looking at everybody. You are so offbase. You are so off. You are so wrong. An arrest warrant issued out of florida superior court. Hours after his second interview, indiana state police arrested david camm and charged with the murders of his wife and two children. It had been three days since the shootings. Coming up, accused of murder, and the evidence? a phone call. A phone call. This phone call blows up his alibi. Yes. A tshirt s and the parade of women. She was upset, you know, and saddened by it and she felt like history was repeating itself. We did not go into what that meant because she said i will talk about it when i get there. There are people he pulls there are people he pulls over, flirts with them and st tually seduces them. He ir he wanted to have women and his wife was getting in the way? she was an obstacle to the kind of lifestyle he wanted to pursue. When dateline continues. Pursue when dateline continues. I'm adding downy unstopables to my wash. Now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. [sniff] still fresh. Still fresh! ♪♪ with downy unstopables, you just toss, wash, wow. For allday freshness. Y i want my babies back. . Dennis murphy: david camm, once an indiana state trooper, was now locked up in the floyd county jail charged with the murder of his wife and children. Tell me about your emotions. Every time i heard a key jingle outside my door, david camm, once david camm, once an indiana state trooper, was now locked up in the is floyd county jail, charged with the murder of his wife and children. Tell me about your emotions. Every time i heard a key jingle outside my door i would think to myself, this is it. They figured it out. They're going to come let me out and say dave, we messed it up. But, that never happened. David's uncle and boss, sam lockhart, successful local businessman quickly became hise lost his freedom and what am i going to do? he didn't lose me. The focus was so concentrated on david, did you ever think or maybe i don't have the picture here. Maybe something awful happened and david snapped and did indeed kill his family? i never did think dave killed his family. Never. Never thought it. Kim's parents, janice and frank renn mourning the loss of their daughter, grandchildren were observing the awful facts the police told them, that their soninlaw was the killer. Janice, they made an arrest and its david. I was just out of it and when it finally did sink in, i was back and forth. Frank, how about you? i was 100% sure. I just went by what the police was telling me. Before long, the tran16s became convinced their sonin law had murdered his family. 15 months after the murders, david camm went on trial. He pleaded not guilty. By now, the prosecutor's timeline had changed. Originally he said david killed his family between 9:15 and 9:30 after he came home from the basketball game. Then backtracked from that. That is because the defense showed that the time of death was somewhere between 7:30 and 8:00 p. M. Everything said this happened much earlier. Now, they argued david went to the gym about 7:00 and secretly ducked out of the basketball game, made the five minute drive home, killed his family and returned to play ball in the prosecutor had proved that david was home at the time of the murders. There was a call to a customer from his landline phone time stamped 7:59 p. M. You have a customer this is he likely is making a call to his landline in his home. Almost certainly. And that this phone call blows up his alibi. Yes. The prosecutor moved on to the crime scene and focused on what happened to kim in the garage that night. You have accused the husband of the murder. Why are you telling the jury that he probably pulled her pants down. Is part of a staged event. Kim had not been but the prosecutor argued her body appeared to have been moved, staged. A cop would know how to do it. Trying to get the jury to think that somebody had been in there to molest her. Investigators had never located the murder weapon. The only physical evidence the state had that the gun was in david camm's hand that night was this, barely visible microscopic droplets of his daughter's blood on the lower lefthand of camm's tshirt. How those drops got there was the crux of the case. Blowback. This is what happens when you shoot somebody at close range. You get that blood on your shirt. Correct. He had a high velocity impact spatter on his tshirt and he has to have been within 4 feet of the child at the time the child was killed. The prosecution believed david camm shot from inside the car, targeting jill in the back seat. That is how her blood sprayed on his shirt, but why? why would david camm kill his family? the reason for those killings, the prosecutor declared, was that david camm was a philandering husband. That probably was one of the first times i ever heard him cry. Remember kim's old friend, mayci mcleod? the prosecutor had her testify about an affair david had when kim was pregnant in late 1994. Rossi called told the court to say kim called her in tears. She was upset. You know, and saddened and there was more. Just three weeks before the murders, marcie had another troubling phone call from kim. Her demeanor was different, her attitude and she didn't want to hang up the phone but yet she didn't want to talk. Field friends made plans for kim and the children to visit marcy. She felt like history was repeating itself. We didn't go and what that meant because she said, we will talk about it when i get there. Kim never made it. The clear indication is that david camm was caddying around again. The prosecutor portrayed him as a scoundrel who used his badge to get sex. There are people he pulls over, flirts with them and eventually seduces them. In court, the prosecutor called a parade of women presenting them as david camm's conquest. More than a dozen of them recounted it fondly. He wanted to have women and his wife was getting in the way? yes. She was an obstacle to the kind of lifestyle he wanted to pursue. That's correct. If dalliances with women were not enough to suggest motivation, the prosecutor had the medical examiners testimony that injuries observed on five yearold jill were consistent with sexual abuse. Will not a little girl falling on the bars. No, was now the bars or a bicycle or anything like that. So there was the prosecution's accused womanizer, child leicester, the killer with blowback led spatter on his tshirt. The defense lawyers had their work cut out for him. You had an uphill fight as a defense attorney. Yes, and that's not unusual but this one was so high profile. Coming up. As about them crafting, molding a belief that was totally founded on things that were not factual and was a complete fiction. The timeline of the crime. That was the smoking gun. The defense is about to stop the clock when dateline continues. E clock when datelin continues. 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So, while ordinary brands can't hold up, one sheet of bounty keeps working, even when wet. (♪♪) now that's the sound of value. Bounty. The quicker picker upper. Are you happy with the jury? dennis murphy: the trial of david camm was underway in floyd county indiana. It was the winter of 2002. So not a little so not a little girl falling on the bars. No, was now the bars or a bicycle or anything like that. So there was the prosecution's accused womanizer, child mollestor, the killer with blowback the trial of david camm was underway in floyd county, indiana. It was the winter of 2002. David camm, accused of murdering his wife and two young children, always insisted the case against him was built on quicksand. It's about them crafting and molding a belief that was totally founded on things that were not factual, and it was just a complete fiction. David's defense attorney was mike mcdaniel, now deceased. He told us he had known david as a trooper. I figured he was another redneck state cop. We done a couple of cases, him on one side, me on the other. But, mcdaniel became convinced of david's innocence and came on board to defend him. This is one of those terrible cases a defense lawyer never wants. You don't want an innocent client. You call them or ravage her because they make you crazy. At trial, mcdaniel knew he had to confront all those women but how? the defense could only flinch and take the was to camm's character. The jury has a picture of a hardworking wife, taking care of the babies, running the household while he's out with pulled answers. Yep, onduty. They had 13 women coming in there with varying degrees of sexual contact or innuendo, another troopers wife, for god sakes. Not a good set of facts. Not a good set of facts. The defense put david on the stand to say that he knew he had messed up. You know, i regret all that stuff. It is so unfortunate the disrespect that i showed my wife but good god, we don't jump from that to saying that automatically makes a person a murderer, it's ridiculous. And the defense had to confront the ugly elegant station that fiveyearold jim jill camm had been blasted when in fact the medical examiner's report only stated the girls bruises were the result of blunt trauma. The defense argued the bruises happen during the attack. Still, it was tough going. We have a guy seems to have a lot of girlfriends. There may be some evidence here of child molestation. This is a very tough thing to combat. Having done his best to hammer the states case for motive, the defense turned to the physical evidence. The state's strongest evidence, the friends a case for david's guilt, was the blood spatter. The defense expert testified the blood got on david's t shirt very simply, when david reached into the back seat to move his son, his shirt rushed against his daughters hair. There were tiny droplets of blood on some of her hair around the wind, so defense testimony was that was transfer from contact with the ends of the strands of her hair. Than the timeline. The defense lawyer challenged the prosecution's theory that david snuck out in the middle of his basketball game, killed his family and then returned to play ball. The defense attorney focused on the phone call made from the camm house at 7:19 p. M. , when david said he was at the church gym. The state had tethered it's timeline to that phone call. That was the smoking gun, which they had a bunch of those and every time they had a smoking gun we just unloaded it. The defense unloaded by calling a witness who testified that timeline was incorrect because of indiana's jumbled time zones, called david made to a client before he left to play ball and even more, david had a solid alibi. 11 eyewitnesses, the basketball players, to corroborate his story that he been at the gym throughout the evening. Did he leave the court that night? he could not have left without one of you guys without one of us because i would see him at one point running down the court and then maybe jeff would've saw him at another point in time so throughout that time there are 10 sets of eyes looking in different directions as a group. I think someone would've noticed that he was missing. Sam lockhart, the uncle, was playing basketball that night, too. Is it possible he stuck out, was gone 10 or 15 minutes, killed his family and snuck back in without any one of us noticing it? absolutely not. That is impossible. But, if david was not the killer then who was? the person who owned that gray sweatshirt, the one that was lying by brad's body on the garage floor on the night of the murders. Defense attorney mike mcdaniel had recognized the sweatshirt's prison issue. In the color of the sweatshirt is the word backbone, and i'm thinking okay, that is a nickname. Tests on the sweatshirt revealed dna from various people including an unknown male, but the prosecutor said there was no match and that the male dna was run through the national database. Still, it seemed to be proof that someone else was in the garage that day. We knew that was probably the key to solving this. We did not know that person by name but we know them by dna profile. Finally, it was up to the jurors. As reporters lingered in the hallway, the jury deliberated for three days. David camm was found guilty of killing his wife and children. The jury comes back and guilty as charged. Yeah, that's what we wanted and then we felt like kim, brad, jill, they could be at rest now. But, from brad's sister, and emotional outburst. Before i even knew what i was standing up and i was screaming you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. A few people had to take me out of the courtroom. You are being walked off in chains. You are not leaving that courthouse. Right in knowing what lies ahead of me, going to prison, a former police officer, and there's absolutely nothing i can do about it. David camm was sent to the state penitentiary but his uncle sam was hanging in. Unless they had killed me, that's how they're going to stop me. They got to kill me. No, it wasn't over. Maybe not but david camm was facing 195 years behind bars. You're going to do time. Your learning how to become incarcerated. I had to. I didn't have a choice. I had to figure out how to survive and i made my mind up early on that's what i was going to do, whatever it took. Did you get confronted inside the joint, this was the guy that was a former cop? not directly but people would say things or you would hear people talking and so on. I was just bewildered at first but i didn't know that there was still a possibility for some glimmer of hope of an appeal. 's successful appeal, another trial. Most convicts claim cling futilely to that straw. Overcoming a murder conviction, long odds. A new legal team with a different strategy was about to take the case to the state court of appeals. Coming up he has a foot fetish and so when they thought at first that it was not a sex crime we kept saying well, not everybody targets the same place in sex crimes. A break in the case. Someone new enters the picture. Is brainy as ted bundy and as brawny as mike tyson. He is a sociopath. Who is this guy? when dateline continues. ? when dateline continues. Woman: guilty. It's guilty. Dennis murphy: in early 2002, david camm was found guilty of murdering his wife and children. The new legal team handling his appeal was optimistic. In early in early i me2002, david ca was found guilty of murdering his wife and children. The new legal team was optimistic. It wasn't long odds in my mind. It was way over the top. What was over the top, they argued; was allowing all those women to testify to the sex, the groping, the come ons. It was weeks after weeksing. Woman after woman. How is that relevant to what happened on september 28th? jurors, this is a bad guy we've got here. Absolutely. He's a louse of a husband. Uhhuh. And we're going to tell you more than that. That was intentional too. Guess what, two years after the guilty verdict, the appeals court agreed. The women should never have been permitted to testify. The conviction was overturned. But the victory was short lived. A new prosecutor announced there would be a second trial. After review of the previous evidence and review of some new evidence that has come to light, i've decided to pursue the charges against david camm for the murders of kimberly camm, bradley camm and jill camm. With another trial looming the defense team was intent on bringing sharply into focus a piece of evidence it believed would set david free. The gray sweatshirt with that unknown male dna. Back in 2001 the prosecutor said there'd been no match when the dna was run through a national criminal database. They wouldn't even talk to me. I wanted to show them the unknown dna. In case that this guy had been arrested now and you got new dna on this data bank bank would you run this? no, we can't take it. The attorneys tried. They asked the prosecutor. Please run the dna through the data bank. He refuses. The state ran the dna three months after sam lockhart started asking about it. Lo and behold we find charles boney. Did this name mean anything to you? didn't mean a thing. Was a complete shock to me. Charles boney, a name that would change everything in the case against david camm. Boney, his prison nickname was backbone. The same name inked in on the collar. As brainy as ted bundy and as brawny as mike tyson. He's a sociopath. A criminal with a history of violent crimes against women. It began in the 1980s when he was a student at indiana university. Newspapers called him the shoe bandit and followed his bizarre crimes. There'd been four separate incidents. He'd knock a woman to the ground and make off with one of her shoes. Really creepy stuff. One crime he wore one of those china doll masks. Creepy stuff you can't make up. The police were on to him. After one arrest he admitted he had a thing for ladies legs and feet. He pleaded guilty to those crimes and at the time his attacks became more violent. He began threatening women at gunpoint. One incident involved three co eds. He'd been watching them and one night just walked into their apartment, held them at gunpoint to their head, took them out, kidnapped them to the car, luckily somebody saw him with the gun leading the women out, called bloomington police department. He pleaded guilty again and was sentenced to 20 years in prison for armed robbery. But was released after serving only seven years. By july2000, he was out on parole. Fit the profile. He has a foot fetish. When they thought at first that it was not a sex crime, we kept saying well not everybody targets the same place in sex crimes. Kim camm had bruising on her toes. Her shoes were on top of the bronco. Her pants had been removed. And boney's sweatshirt with his dna was at the crime scene. Turns out that dna had been in the database three years before the murders. It took one hour and one e mail to find charles boney. That could have been done in 2002 had prosecutor faith done it. You'd think on a case in which children and a mom are murdered, ambushed in a garage that they would bend over backwards to do it right. Stan faith was the prosecutor in trial one. The defense said well we asked you to send that out to be balanced to be tested against a national register of dna. I asked the lead investigator do to that. And he said we didn't get anything and that's he hadn't sent it out at all. I think he sent it out. He hadn't sent the proper dna. Faith says he later learned the detective sent out the wrong dna sample from the sweatshirt. Mike mcdaniel, david's first defense attorney didn't buy that. I think he's a liar. You don't think he ever ran it. No, i don't think he ever asked anybody to run it. When he says the prosecution is lying to him. Lying means you knowingly, you tell a falsehood. I didn't tell him a lie. I told him what i thought was true. Whatever the truth is, now more than four years later there was a name to that dna. Do you allow yourself to think here we are on our way to case closed finally? absolutely. Sure. We have a name. We have genetic. Forensic evidence. This is the shooter. Absolutely. Coming up, a new suspect in the hot seat. If anything else linked you to it, you're done. See that would normally worry me. I wasn't there. This intense interrogation, where will it lead when dateline continues? zevo. Peoplefriendly. Bugdeadly. Clogged gutters can cause big problems fast. Until now. 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Xfinity mobile was designed to save you money and gives you access to wifi speeds up to a gig. So you get high speeds for low prices. Better than getting low speeds for high prices. Right, bruce? jealous? yeah, look at that. Honestly, someone get a helmet on this guy. Get a free unlimited line for a year when you buy one unlimited line. Plus, get up to $800 off google pixel 9 phones. Switch today! dennis murphy: by 2005, david camm had been behind bars for more than four years. David camm: generally, from september through february by by 2005, david camm had been behind bars for more than four years. Generally from september through february were my darkest times of the year. The times of the murders and then you have the holidays and then the kids birthdays in february. Did you feel yourself becoming institutionalized? i had to to a degree. For me it was a matter of, you know, sitting back and observing and seeing how things operate so that i could fit in enough to be okay. I had to lock the real me down inside. How are his spirits? was he holding on or sinking? dave would sink only briefly. He would have lows. There'd be times he'd sound really down but he never stayed there because he couldn't stay there. Staying in that despondency, that hopelessness is, um, excruciating. But now there finally seemed to be a break in the case. S unknown male dna on the sweatshirt had be identified as charles boney's. Two days later the cops brought boney in and started grilling him on how tended up on the garage floor. That sweatshirt was in the middle after crime scene in a triple homicide. Somehow that sweatshirt got there. Your sweatshirt. You explain to me how it got there. I have no idea. Boney admitted the sweatshirt had once been his but said he'd dumped it in a salvation army drop box about a month before the murders. It shows up at a crime scene, not laundered, not washed. If it'd went through the salvation army drop box that'd have been a clean sweatshirt. Your dna chances are wouldn't have been on there, but it is. I see where you're coming from. As for david camm. You know david camm? do you remember the murder of david camm's family? on television, yes. Do you know where david camm lives? only on television. I don't even know what his address is. The interrogation went on for some 12 hours with boney sticking to his story. The detectives released him with a warning. Make no mistake about it, if anything else links you to it you're done. Stick a fork in you. That would normally worry me, i wasn't there. Then two weeks after letting boney walk, there was something else. Something big. Early yesterday morning i was notified of some additional scientific evidence that linked mr. Boney to the homicides. The prosecutor revealed that a palm print found on the exterior passenger side of the bronco door frame was left there by none other than charles boney. Investigators had been aware of the palm print for more than four years. Only now did they know whose it was. Boney was hauled back into the interrogation room and the questioning became more confrontational. Got some explaining to do here, charles. Your palm print is on that bronco. You're there. Now this is the time. This is the place. This is your last stage that you're going to have to tell us what the hell happened there. This is it. This can't be happening. Charles. After hours of denial, boney changed his story. Yes, he did know david camm. They met playing pick up basketball. In another round of questioning the story changed and changed again. Finally boney put himself at the crime scene. The reason why i was there was to bring him a gun. That night? that night. Boney said david camm asked him to get an untraceable gun. He said he was a guy caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. As events started to unfold in the investigation, it became apparent that this case was intertwined between two people. Now the prosecutor had a new theory. David camm did not act alone. He had a coconspirator. The excop and the excon were each charged with the three killings. David was outraged. He believed he should have been set free. After all charles boney's signature was all over the scene. He attacks women, defenseless, innocent women. He takes their shoes, their socks. He holds guns to their heads and threatens to shoot them in the head. You know, all of those things from his previous crimes is exactly what happened to kim. Why can't they see this stuff? they just turn a blind eye to the facts. The prosecutor had a different set of facts. We know that the defenses maintain this is now the killer. Thatty should dismiss the charges against david camm. The evidence is not there. In january 2006, charles boney and david camm stood trial separately in two different courthouses. While he wasn't accused of being the shooter, boney was found guilty on three counts of murder in. He was sentenced to 225 years. And the prosecution team rejected any notion that boney acted alone. Why? those tiny specks of blood. They were on david's shirt but not boney's sweatshirt. His shirt does not have high velocity blood splatter. A former indiana state trooper is going to be a co conspirator with a felony. His story is the only thing you've got that link him to david camm. There's no phone records. There's no one's ever seen them together. There's no text messages. There's no smoke signals. There's nothing between david camm and charles boney. At david camm's second trial, boney was named at the other man at the scene. Also charged with the triple murders. Otherwise the case against camm was pretty much the same absent the female witnesses. The state focused on the allegation that david molested his daughter. The motive was kimberly was leaving david camm and that she was leaving him because of the child molesting. He could not let her leave. He could not let that secret out. That was the secret in the camm household. The defense countered. Brought in experts to show there was no evidence the little girl had been molested. The state's theory of why david murdered his family was purely made up. It was speculation. David cam had never been charged with sexual molestation. That didn't stop the prosecutor from closing his case with a big dramatic flourish. He took his finger and stuck it in dave's face and said you molested your child. The jury took four days to reach its verdict. Guilty on all three counts. David camm has now been convicted of the murder of his wife and the murder of his two kids brad and jill. Guilty again. Guilty again. With the same inflammatory evidence. This is just such a heinous accusation. The saga was far from uncle. His uncle refused to retreat. We're not done, david. You got to hang in there. We're not done. Coming up. They certainly weren't done but prosecutors weren't done either. The placement of the sweatshirt led you to believe that david camm put it there. And charles boney? he was just getting started. He wants me to deliver a secondhand gun. It was just overwhelming. I've tried a lot of cases over the years. A lot of murder cases. I've never tried anything like this. When dateline continues. When i found out smoking had blocked the arteries to my legs. It became hard to even walk. So i offered to end our marriage. I felt like he hadn't signed up for this. My tip is, when you smoke, for better or worse, and in sickness and in health may come a lot sooner than you think. (announcer) you can quit. Call 1800quitnow for help getting free medication. Could this be menopause? clearblue menopause stage indicator uses an app that combines your age, cycle data, and fsh hormone levels over time in a personalized report to share with your doctor to get the clarity you need. A $1,500 coat rack. Didn't even learn smoke on the water. Babble. Can she even speak a word of spanish? lo siento, que dijiste? wait, really? son solo quince minutos al diá. Start learning today at babble. Com. Son solo quince minutos al diá. Dennis murphy: sam lockhart's mission to clear the name of his nephew david continued unabated after camm and charles boney were both convicted of the murders of david's family. Some lockhart's mission some lockhart's mission to clear the e'name of his nephew continued unabated after camm and charles boney were convicts. Now we have the killer who killed kim, brad and jill. We finally got that accomplished. Now our next chore we are still after that. We were still after getting david camm another trial. You're back to the appeals court again. Right. All rise. The indiana supreme court heard the appeal. Attorney stacy uliana and kitty lyles stayed on the case. They argued the evidence that david molested his daughter was pure speculation and should not have been allows. There's absolutely no evidence at all that camm was the perpetrator of that; right? in 2009 the upper court agreed. Convictions reversed. Two words. That's all i needed. A second victory for the camm team. The conviction was overturned and the judges ordered a new trial. Statistically a successful appeal of a firstdegree murder charge is a long shot and yet you got it. Twice. That doesn't happen. Doesn't happen. You know, if you don't believe in something bigger you need to really evaluate your spirituality because, you know, man that was a god thing. The third david camm murder trial underway now. In august 2013, more than a dozen years after the murders, david camm faced his third jury. A special prosecutor was appointed to represent the state. You're going to start the third trial. How did you appraise the case? when i first got it was overwhelming. I've tried a lot of cases over the years. A lot of death penalty cases. Murder cases. I've never tried anything like this. I've never seen anything as complicated. With no philandering husband, no molesting father, what remained was the theory of the crime that david left the basketball game, killed his family then went back to play some more. Once again the prosecutor asked that the scene in the garage was staged to look like a sex crime. Her pants had been removed. Correct. Removed after she'd been killed. What's more, the positioning of kim's body he argued was not what you'd expect of a person who'd been shot and fallen. Her feet are under the car about roughly ten, 12 inches under the car. Her legs were at an angle which seemed unusual. Unusual how? well, they weren't straight. They were at an angle. You just wouldn't expect them to be that way. The infamous sweatshirt the one that once belonged to charles boney was part of the staging the prosecutor argued. The placement of the sweatshirt was incriminating. I thought the way it it was put there led you to believe that david camm put it there. Tucked all too neatly under brad camm's body as though put there on purpose. Remember no murder weapon was ever found. Heart of the prosecution's case was still that freckling of blood at the bottom of david's shirt. Evidence marking david as the shooter. The little girl was seatability belted on this site as you're looking in. Tom bevel was an expert witness for the prosecution. In a bronco similar to the one owned by the camms, he common strayed for us where he believes david was wedged inside the car to get those specks of blood on the bottom of his shirt. What's a likely posture for the shooter? would have been leaned in somewhat like this in order to get the correct trajectory for her. I notice your shooting hand is up pretty high. Is that an awkward shot? it's not necessarily awkward, but we have to go with the physical evidence and the physical evidence isn't like this. Why so few spots? it's because most of the blow back hit the inside roof of the vehicle. Like much of the other evidence the blood splatter testimony was essentially the same. What would be enormously different this time was the star witness. The jury was going to hear from charles boney himself. A huge risk for the prosecutor. You wonder how good. His credibility was going to be in question. Why put him on the stand? if i didn't put him on the stand i suspect they would have. But also i thought the jury ought to hear it. This is the story boney told in court. He said he met david camm in july 2000 playing basketball in a local park. We talked to boney in prison. It was just a pick up game of basketball. I didn't know him or really anyone there. I just i'm fresh out of prison. The scene is different. After the game he said camm was talking smack about how easily he'd beaten boney. I said well, you know, i may have lost the game but at least i have my freedom and he's like freedom? yeah, i just got out of prison. Camm, boney continued then told him he used to be a state trooper. At the end of that day did you know him by name? i didn't know his full name until our second chance meeting. That meeting was in september about a week or so before the murders. They ran into each other at a convenience store and got to talking in the parking lot. Are you employed? staying out of trouble? what types of things did you do to get in prison? he was creating his own form of intel. He was learning quite a few things about charles boney. Boney told him he'd been inside for robbery. When i slowly started to let him know about some of the things i did in the past, he asked me, well, are you still ) untraceable. That's what !st$ñit led to. A clean gun. Throw down gun. Something that can't be traced by law enforcement and baa listings. Boney said he scored a handgun the same day. Met david again in a parking lot and handed over the weapon. He paid boney $250. But one gun wasn't enough, as boney's story goes. He wants me to deliver yet a secondhand gun. So i follow mr. Camm back to his house. I can see visibly exactly where he lives. As boney tells it they spoke outside the house for just five minutes. Boney asked when he should return with the second gun. And i'm asking this man, you know, what time? what time should i be back here? why don't you come back thursday at approximately 7:00, et cetera. So i knew what time to be back. So meet me here thursday night in the evening and you'll have more cash in your pocket. Absolutely. It was thursday, september 28th. The evening of the murders. I arrived at mr. Camm's house at approximately 7:00. He handed over the gun to camm wrapped in his gray sweatshirt. We exchanged pleasant res. My purpose is to get the $250 for the second weapon. Boney says after a few minutes the bronco with the wife and kids arrived and pulled into the garage. And what happens? i hear a little bit of commotion. It sound like something's not right. Sounds like they're arguing then i hear an immediate pop and before i heard the pop i heard her say no. It was a commanding no, like stop. Then i heard a pop. Then i heard the word dad gray. Two more pops follows. It sounded like a handgun. What'd you think? i'm thinking there's this is a crime scene. So do you say i got to get out of here? i would have liked to have just left. As he emerged from the garage and pointed the handgun at me i was frozen. Now you're a target? absolutely. So he needs to kill charles boney. But the gun jams. At that point i'm out of here. Once i realize that your gun doesn't have projectiles in it, now my job is to get you. You're going for him. Absolutely. Now as boney tells it, the scene moved into the garage. As i go into the garage i'm chasing after mr. Camm. I heard him say you did this. And i took that as this is your crime. Boney saw the victims. The wife down by the car door. He remembers her being fully clothed. Then he says he stumbled. I trip over shoes. I remember touching these shoes. I clearly touched something that is now a part of what will be a murder scene so yeah, i did pick them up. I did try to wipe them off. Kim's shoes he placed them on top of the bronco. Then he looked inside the vehicle and says he saw the two children. Mindful of leaving dna and prints he says he touched none of the bodies. Then he says he heard david moving inside the house. And it clicked into my head he's going for a weapon. I mean this guy is a former indiana state trooper. At which point he bolted from the scene. Had i stayed there any longer, there's no doubt he would have killed me and lied and said to his buddies at the indiana state police i came home and found this black guy. After listening to boney testify, the defense was ready to pounce. That's his story. And it makes absolutely no sense. But it explains away all the evidence that they had against him at the time. But what boney didn't account for was the dna that was going to be found and he has no story for that. Coming up. Boney's story of course was i ran in, i did this, i never touched anybody. Clearly not true. New dna evidence. He absolutely fought with kim. He touched jill. What will charles boney have to say now? did you do that? charles boney, did you kill that family? introducing kardiamobile. With kardiamobile, the fdacleared smart device, you can take a medicalgrade ekg in just 30 seconds from anywhere. Every morning i check, make sure i'm in good shape. And it makes me feel pretty good about my heart condition. Kardiamobile is proven to detect atrial fibrillation. And it's fdacleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. I mean, you might as well be in doctor's office. Get yours today for just $79 at kardia. Com or amazon. Now, hsa/fsa eligible. Nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. . . All in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. Use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. Nexgard® plus: the one you want for oneanddone protection. (♪♪) (♪♪) bounce back fast from heartburn with tums gummy bites, and love food back. (♪♪) pete g. Writes, “my tween wants a new phone. How do i not break the bank? we gotcha, pete. Xfinity mobile was designed to save you money and gives you access to wifi speeds up to a gig. So you get high speeds for low prices. Better than getting low speeds for high prices. Right, bruce? jealous? yeah, look at that. Honestly, someone get a helmet on this guy. Get a free unlimited line for a year when you buy one unlimited line. Plus, get up to $800 off google pixel 9 phones. Switch today! hi, hi, a news update. The supreme court of brazil has suspended elon musk's social network. This comes after the company now called x vowed to defy court orders related to content moderation. Brazilians could face fines if they try to access the site via private networks. Minnesota first lady gwen walz held her first solo event friday. Mrs. Walz a long time public schoolteacher spoke to teachers in virginia. For now back to dateline. The case against david camm the defense argued was as preposterous as before. Who could buy the theory that david left the basketball game to kill his family. There is absolutely no way he could have left that gym. You have to believe that he knew when he was going to get to sit out. He timed it perfectly so it'd be right at the time he was going to meet charles boney and murder his family. It is beyond belief what he would have had to have put in place in order for this alibi to have worked. Sounds like a synchronize your watches scenario. There's no common sense way he could have pulled it off. Camm had a solid alibi. 11 men had seen him playing basketball from a little after 7:00 until about 9:20 that night. There was no one to support any part of the story boney had just told. There. Richard kammen was a new face on the defense team. It didn't happen. The defense insisted boney was the sole killer in the garage and that back in 2000, investigators ignored evidence pointing to the convicted felon. To make that point, the defense called a veteran homicide detective who now trains police in how to conduct murder investigations. I don't like teching against other cops. Bay recited flaw after flaw in the camm information. Most significant was the handling of the sweatshirt. When a homicide detective gets physical evidence that's got a name and dna you hug it, you love it. It is such a rare event and they thought of it as an artifact. Which in nonlegal terms means move on. It would have changed everything. First of all, within two weeks tops they would have had boney. And other blunders as well. The heavy reliance on the blood splattered tshirt. That is the physical evidence against david camm. The most misinterpreted is blood splatter. You don't hang the entire case just on the interpretation of blood spatter. You have to have so much more. The theory of a staged sex crime, flat out wrong. They really never probed out the fact it could be somebody with a panty fetish or somebody who is just sexually excited at the view of a woman's legs. Big problem. The suspect they don't know about and won't know for about five years has complete personality reflected in that crime scene up to the point of how kim was found. And remember boney palm print had been found on the bronco. More evidence the defense said that he was the killer. So here we have a 90s ere are ford bronco. Eugene showed how the palm print would have been left. It really is just as simple as reaching into the vehicle like this to make a shot for jill and for bradley you would lean over a bit more and fire a shot this way. I noticed you braced yourself here. Yeah. This is where crime scene techs find a palm print. Yes, they did. But it makes perfect sense if you're leaning in or you want to stabilize yourself, especially if you're making a shot. Now the defense had fresh scientific evidence that boney actually put his hands on two of the victims. Boney's story of course was i ran in, i did this, i never touched anybody. Clearly not true. There is something in the field of dna analysis called touch dna. Lab experts use human cells to make an identifying hit on a suspect. Touch dna from boney's skin cells was found on kim camm's sweater, her underwear and on jill's shirt. The dna conclusively proves he absolutely fought with kim. That he touched jill. The defense hoped its cross examination of boney would be still more proof. Camm had to steel himself to watch boney on the stand. You're looking at him. Right. There was no way for me to prepare myself for that. It was a situation where i really had to think about what was at stake and doing what was right in that moment. Having to set there look at this guy i knew killed my family and not react. The defense said boney's story was absurd. For starters, why would an ex cop ask an excon for a gun? the police officer doesn't think well how can i trust this guy he's a criminal. The guy who just got out of prison doesn't smell a rat? he doesn't think maybe i'm being set up. It makes absolutely no sense. The defense took on boney's story in cross examination. We had some of the same questions when we spoke to him. How many versions did it take to get to the story you just told? three, four, five times. Yes. I finally realized the more i keep lying i'm just digging myself deeper and deeper. When i did start telling the truth i didn't feel comfortable revealing too much too soon because i department want to be a part of the case to begin with. So once again, i resorted to telling a lot of stories. The big picture here, charles for a lot of people is it sounds like a crock. That a felon just out of the slammer would hook up with a recently retired state police officer and do this gun exchange. It just doesn't seem to make sense. It doesn't pass the sniff test. There's a lot of things that doesn't make sense. I would have alarms going off inside my head. Here you are on probation. How do you know this former cop is really a former cop and not setting you up with a sting? although that did cross my mind, there was something about him. If you've spent any time with mr. Cam, he has a way of putting you at ease. I didn't care what the gun was for. You've provided this former trooper with weapons, it was on a special weapons team with the indiana state police. He was s. W. A. T. So theoretically here this premeditated crime he's going to trust a handgun that's come off the street that he hasn't checked out, he's just unwrapped it from the sweatshirt and immediately used it for his business. It was the gun. Those are questions that i can't possibly answer. Why did he want me there at the crime scene? we know why. Because he wanted me to take the blame for all of this. So as boney tells it the transaction happens, he delivers the gun, hears the gunfire and then david camm tries to shoot him. Why don't you just belt right out of there? if you point a weapon at me, even on a prison level if a guy comes at me with a shank i'm going to get that shank from him. Then it's my turn. It's that simple. I'm just going to put it out there. I can't get in any trouble. My intent was to kill david camm that day. You try to kill me and now i'm going to kill you. But before i had a chance to kill him i stumbled across this beautiful woman dead, lifeless on the ground. Then boney said he stumbled over the woman's shoes and took the time to place them on top of the bronco. But then you're down on the floor the way you tell it. You've tripped. I did. I tripped over the shoes. Then your emotions are going wild. This guy is trying to kill you. You're going to stop. We have to believe. Oh, shoes, i got to put these now on top of the vehicle. Doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make any sense. I'm wiping the shoes off and i see one little leg or something hanging out the passenger side. I go to investigate to see if there's anyone else in the back of the vehicle and when i leaned in to look i put the shoes on top. I don't even remember doing it. Doesn't remember doing it and he says he doesn't know why. I wasn't thinking about why i did that. I was cognizant and really thinking about the dna or possible fingerprints from having tripped and touched those shoes. You know that palm print is just where you would brace yourself to lean across to shoot at that little boy. That's according to defense expert witnesses. The prosecution has that same evidence. They don't see it that way. What i'm saying is if you're so concerned about tidying up, why would you did be so clumsy as to leave a hand print? i leaned in to check on the children. I'm not worried about that palm print. I didn't even realize i left a palm print. I wanted to get out of there. Did you touch any of the victims? i did not. So how does he explain dna on kim and jill camm's clothes. I've touched david camm. We've shook hands. My skin cells are clearly on him. Anything he touches can be transferred. While the defense couldn't tell the jury about boney's past, the foot fetish, the armed robbery, we knew the record and asked him about it. When people understand your criminal history, the fetishes, what happened in that garage seems to fit your appetites. This is this guy's history just played out on a violent scale that he'd never been through before. First of all my history does not consist of killing women. Shooting people period. I've not ever had anything like that in my past. Yes, i've been in possession of handguns. When i was 20 i did some armed robberies for cash. Were you in the garage that night with a gun in your hand taking control of kim camm? no, sir. Kids started to cry, i told you to shut up, shoot the wife when she comes after of you. Richard kammen's theory is wrong. It never happened. In your panic forget your sweatshirt. Forget about the trophies of shoes maybe you were going to take later. For the first time the sex fetish itch you have has gotten out of control. Did you kill that family? no, sir. That's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. A guy with a foot fetish kills a family just to satisfy his foot fetish? in a place where he's never been before? it never happened. What are you hoping the jury hears today? i have no comment, sir. With boney as the wild card, david camm's third trial came to an end after nine weeks. It's over. Right foul. Let's wait for the verdict. Would the jurors believe the tale they heard. The felon duped into the crime scene by the excop. For the third time in 13 years his fate was in their hands. Coming up, verdict number three. Would anyone dare predict what this one would be? everybody kind of had that same feeling but none of us had the nerve to utter it. When dateline continues. Nue respiratory disee from rsv in people 60 years and older. Arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Arexvy is number one in rsv vaccine shots. Rsv? make it arexvy. The virus that causes shingles is sleeping. . . In 99% of people over 50. It's lying dormant, waiting. . . And could reactivate. Shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. And it could wake at any time. Think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. Because shingles could wake up in you. If you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. If you're over 50, talk to dennis murphy: the jury in david camm's third trial had the case. For two families, there was nothing to do but wait. The renns, kim's parents, wanted the jury the jury in ain. David camm' third trial had the case. For two families there was nothing to do but wait. Kim's parents wanted to hear the word guilty again. The new evidence had not changed their minds. You believe david killed your daughter and kids. That'll never change. Why isn't boney's presence enough to explain everything that happened in that garage? it just didn't. There's just too many other things. There's too many stories been told on both sides. You know, i don't believe neither one of them are telling the truth. We've gotten word that a verdict has been reached. The jury took ten hours to reach a verdict. Has to be guilty. I wasn't expecting anything but guilty. But kim's mom was worried. I was scared because ten week trial and you're only out ten hours. I had a really bad feeling from the beginning. David got ready. Shaking violently. I literally could not button my shirt or fix my tie and my collar and so on. Deputies had to help me. His family were heartened by a relatively fast deliberation. Everybody kind of had that same feeling of, this might be good. The the word not as in not guilty. Once, twice, three times. You hear the first one and then you hear the second one and you're praying to god you hear the third one. And that's when i lost it. You know, knowing finally the truth has prevailed. Justice for kim and brad and jill. For me. For my family. And i just fell to pieces. Not guilty. Not guilty. 13 years. Times three. Yes, sir. 13 years. 13 years of hell. Everybody around me was crying. Dave was bawling. I just sat there. I think i was finally saying we've got this thing done. Finally. For the other side, the parents, the grandparents, the verdict was a devastating blow. When they said not guilty. That's kind of like ripped my heart out right there. This can't be right. What did these jurors see that the other 24 jurors in the past didn't see? david, can you tell me how you're feeling right now? outside the cameras were waiting. This is complete vindication after 13 horrific years. This is a miracle. My situation is a miracle that we are here conducting this interview right now. God literally had to move a mountain to make this happen. But that mountain would never have moved without dedicated attorneys and uncle sam lockhart. A lot of people saying the only reason i'm doing this is because david's my nephew. That's a big reason. But i know he's innocent. He didn't do it. The only thing i knew to do then was continue to fight until we reached the solution that was proper. Finally the david camm case, one that had dominated the news in southern indiana for years was over. Your name will be clean again but you know there's still going to be people that point at you and whisper and say that's the guy that got away with killing his family. I can't help those people. If they choose to be ignorant, that's on them. I've had 13 years of my life taken away from me. It's their problem if they choose to be ignorant. It is a choice. David camm filed a federal lawsuit against floyd county as well as several county and indiana state employees claiming wrongful arrest and detention. In 2016 camm settled with the county for $450,000. He later settled with the state for $4. 6 million. The indiana attorney general's office denied wrong doing on behalf of any state employees involved. David camm was also the beneficiary of a suit filed by his wife kim's estate. In 2023 a judge ordered convicted killer charles boney to be pay camm $3 million for the wrongful deaths of kim and the couple's two young children. For those who knew and loved kim, brad and jill, there remains a yearning to know what might have been for the wife and mother, for the two young children. No telling what kim might have been. What the kids would have been doing. They've lost all that. David camm will never get over the pain of what happened in the garage that night. The pain becomes a part of you. And you live with it. And it's an element of who i am. You know, how i live my life. On the day of the verdict as a security precaution, sheriffs deputies drove david to a prearranged truck stop and turned him over to husband waiting uncle sam. That was the moment he was really free. Think so. I think it finally hit him and it hit me. This guy no longer is in shackles. This guy is with me. He is now ready to go start his life. Me and one man leaving together heading home. My moderate to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture. Now i have skyrizi. ♪ i've got places to go and i'm feeling free ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me ♪ ♪ control is everything to me ♪ and now i'm back in the picture. Feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. Skyrizi helped visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. And with skyrizi, many were in remission at 12 weeks, at 1 year, and even at 2 years. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. Liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. Ask your gastroenterologist how to take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. 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