>> alarmed democrats in panic mode after joe biden appears confused and unfocused in last night's presidential debate. >> if we finally beat medicare -- >> he did beat medicare. he beat it to death. >> it was a slow start. no question about that. but i thought it was a strong finish. >> turning your back because ofç one performance? what kind of party does that? >> they talk about a relatively small number of people that went to the capital, and in many cases were ushered in by the police. >> mostly lying, and without much fact checking. >> after the debate he got more and more manic. >> i just won two club championships. to do that you have to be quite smart. >> i didn't have sex with a porn star. >> you would think the candidate who during the presidential debate said i didn't have sex with a porn star. who is the leader of that? >> donald trump isn't just a convicted felon, donald trump is a one-man crime wave. >> if that joe biden shut up last night there would be no question today. >> is a recovery path, it is just going to be very challenging and rocky for the campaign. >> the choice in ■dhis election is simple. donald trump will destroy democracy, i will defend it. >> it evening, once again. what a week. i'm stephanie ruhle, and we are now 130 days away from the election. the biden campaign is trying to reset and recover from the first debate. remember, i didn't's team wanted this debate, to put trump's team on the defensive, but also to highlight his lies and dangerous policies. and those things were on display last night, but they were overshadowed by biden's own performance, which even he admitted was far from his best. there is a lot of reporting about how democrats and donors are sounding the alarm today, and some are even talking about the idea of a different nominee. but, despite all of that, ■% president biden made a defiant return to the campaign trail earlier today, promising voters that he will win this race. >> i know i'm not a young man. to state the obvious. well, i know. folks, i don't walk as easy as it used to. i don't speak as smoothly as i used to. i don't debate as well as i used to. but i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth! i know right from wrong! and i know how to do this job. i know how to get things done.■ and i know, like millions of americans know, when you get knocked down you get back up. >> with that, let's bring in our friday night cap. former new york prosecutor and civil rights attorney charles coleman junior. molly done fast, special correspondent for vanity fair and msnbc contributor. tim miller is your host of the podcast and former communication director for republican jeb bush. and writer and comedian sarah cooper, you have definitely seen her videos lip-synching to the one and only donald trump. her memoir, foolish, tales of assimilation, determination, and humiliation is a must read. it is out now and perfect for the summer. we have a lot to cover. this feels like the longest week in the history of humanity. tim, i wanted to call you and text you last night, ■çbut at t end of that debate and our coverage i needed to go to bed. joe biden had a very strong rally today. he looked better than he has looked in months. he was very different from last night. does today's performance in any way calm the panic that we have seen in the last 18 hours, over the democratic party? >> no, you wanted to call and text me, or hug me last night? because i could've used a hug. it does not calm my panic. it might calm some other people's panic. i am sorry to report at the top of the show, i might be the bird in the punch bowl a little bit tonight. i thought joe biden was good today on the campaign trail. i think that probably assuages the concerns of some of the base voters, the very politically active democrats who are ■çengaged in the stuff, who are on social media and get joe biden's videos and pay attention to his rallies. but there were tens of millions of people that saw the debate last night that are not as engaged. and joe biden was already struggling with those voters. that was his weakest group. part of the reason why the biden committee wanted to have that debate yesterday was to focus the minds of people, to remind them why they hated donald trump and to demonstrate to them that he was up for the job. and on that, it was just a catastrophe. and from the people in my life that are casual observers of politics, i'm sure like everybody else, the text were worst for people who don't pay attention to politics. like oh, the bedwetters. no, my worst texts were from people like what is happening, is he this bad? so, ■qan you recover with that? yes. but as jen psaki said in the intro, it is going to be a big task and he is going to have to be much more vigorous and in everybody's face on the campaign trail that he has been. if he is not up for that, than that other conversation has to happen. >> molly, donald trump's content, remember, the actual content is important. as expected, it was chock full of lies. over 30 were counted. but is any of that going to break through, given president biden's weak performance? >> well, it wasn't even lies. it was insane stuff. we had h2o. i mean, the winner of this debate was donald trump because somehow no one noticed some of the stuff he was saying. i mean, it was crazy, crazy stuff. and i actually got, as much ■ça there was definitely a lot of questioning, handwringing, anxiety, it was also, donald trump has this. he is so in this right-wing media bubble that he gives these little speeches that don't at all relate to the question, and because of the way this panel was set up, this debate was moderated, it really wasn't an ability to just go into a right-wing talking point and not ever come down. >> but, molly, malpractice on his part? donald trump has been doing this from the moment he entered politics, and president biden's team agreed to these terms. so for us to say oh, my gosh, it's malpractice. what was cnn doing? ■ç they were doing what they said they would do. and the onus was on president biden to counter donald trump's lies. and for the most part he didn't. >> he was tongue-tied. and, you know, i don't know. i was watching it as someone who sometimes gets tongue-tied. i definitely thought you know, he has a stutter. and i did think this was not the biden that any of us hoped to see last night. i have seen him pull the rabbit out of the hat, and this was not that. >> sarah, what did you make of last night? >> well, stephanie, i've got to be honest, i kind of checked out of politics for a while so i had not seen biden speak in a long time, and i had a lot of trolls on my social media saying how much he deteriorated and i thought they were all exaggerating. but from the minute he stepped on the stage and he ■çpointed t his podium as if to remind himself where he was going, i was really worried. and then when he started speaking i got, i was shocked. i will be honest, i was shocked. i did not expect that he, i mean, it is like the train, you're not sure where it's going. and even if it was going to get there, you are not sure when. it is trump, you know he is going to lie. you know what he is going to say. you know he's going to repeat himself. but with biden, it was just my entire body felt like it was shaking because i just had no idea what was going to happen. and not in a good way, not like i'm watching a movie and i can't wait to see what's going to happen. it was kind of like watching a bit of a train wreck. but the choice seems to be like in november you will either have a president who makes you feel dead but you will ■çbe alive, or a president who makes you feel alive will be dead. >> charles, joe biden has, by all accounts, some incredibly big wins. big policy wins in his presidency over the last 3 1/2 years. but none of us are going to deny that he had a rough night. not 24 hours later the new york times is out with an editorial titled to serve his country, president biden should leave the race. is everyone, including democrats, giving up on him to quickly? it was a bad night, but it was just one bad night. >> listen, stephanie. i am someone who believes that you dance with the one who brought you. and at the end of the day,■ç if this is the candidate who has brought the democratic party to this point as the president, then i think you have to have a little faith. truthfully, how do you position someone else to replace another candidate and say we believe in you, we will give you are all, if after one poor debate you are ready to let this guy go. the thing about what democrats have been saying all along is that biden's trend, his record and is a calm assurance. but if you really believe that then you have to allow him to continue to push that and be the messenger. you find other ways to get the message out, but what you don't do is abandon the person who you claim, you have been selling and pushing as responsible for this incredible upturn in america's economy and everything else the biden administration has said it has done. either you believe in your guy to be the one to push the agenda, or to move democrats where they need to be to keep the country in a good space, or you let them go. but you can't have it both.■ç you can't let them go and then all of a sudden try to convince the voting public that you are behind another guy who you still think is the proper choice over donald trump. what i also think this says, stephanie, which is weird to me, is for everything democrats of said there is a fear that we saw not just with joe biden, but around donald trump and the fact that he, in some weird way, is not going away. whether it is the indictments, whether it is the conditions, whether it is the impeachments, or the investigations. he is someone, he is the bad villain from a horror movie that will not die. and i think there are people in the democratic base after watching the debate last night who really feel a sense of fear about that, that he continues to remain a viable opponent to joe biden. i think that it is a matter of confidence. you have to be confidq your guy and you cannot dump him after one poor debate performance. >> well, could today's freak out by the democratic party be assigned the democrats are actually the normal, healthy group, as opposed to what we have seen with trump and the gop, that no matter what he says, no matter what he does, he is their fearless leader and they get behind him no matter what? >> well, absolutely. it is a crazy cult. donald trump is insane. just adding on to what molly said, substantively speaking, donald trump gave the worst debate performance in presidential history last night. talking about the porn start, defending writers. he could not answer question. ■ç just the substance. not the figure skating judging, but the substance of what he said was the crazy stuff that is ever been set on a presidential debate stage last night. that said, joe biden could not counter it. the worst performance in history, joe biden didn't have any coherent counter to donald trump's points. and i'm sorry, it was not one bad night. people have been concerned about joe biden's age for months and months. you know, people complain, the media talks about it too much. and i try not to talk about it every time i'm on, but that doesn't mean i'm not concerned about it. is concerned about joe biden's deterioration between how he presented in 2020 when he beat donald trump in two debates, and last night, is dramatic. we can't attend like it doesn't exist.■ç i think those conversations about joe biden is a sign that the party is healthy, and i think it should not be waived away as a one bad thing. it isn't. it is in a one bad night thing. that's not true. >> molly, we are barely eight weeks out for the democratic convention. is that enough time that if they wanted to change direction on candidates they could even pull that off, technically? >> yeah, i mean, this is a math problem here. and what it looks like is if joe biden decides he doesn't want to do this, which, he has to be the driver here. he has to say it. become otherwise the party will never go along with it. then he can endorse and we can go to a broker convention. and that will look like delegates voting. democrats don't have superdelegates anymore, and i think that is a really important point. we really could have a convention where you just have these delegates■ç, a couple hundred delegates. everyone is ranked the same way, they tend to be biden supporters, so biden may have put some of these people in, they may be loyal to him. which is really why you need biden to be the driver here. and he probably, you know, in my mind he would endorse his vice president, then she would go to a brokered convention and the delegates would vote. and while this is not necessarily an ideal scenario, it has happened before. you know, it will likely happen again. and ultimately it is a decision being made by democrats during a brokered convention. there is historical precedent. >> sarah, we are putting our candidates in a position that it is all about ■çperformance. so, do we realize that performing, that is actually donald trump superpower? it's the one thing he is actually really good at. >> yeah, i mean, on the one hand i am kind of excited that we are judging them on their tone for once. we usually just judge women on their tone. but on the other hand, it makes me wish ai could figure out how to make a president. because the fact of the matter is, we know what the country wants. we know 70% of the country wants a woman to have the right to choose. why can't we just be that into an ai robot president and the ai robot president makes the laws? i don't know, i am very confused about why we are deciding on a president taste on personality and, again, all of these culture wars. but maybe i just don't really understand politics. i mean, i understand it, but i don't like it. >> my biggest fear is that the democrats circled the wagons around joe biden right now, and joe biden doesn't have the capability to make a case against donald trump and to make a case to the undecided american voters out there that he is up for the job. and here's the thing. if you look at the polls, people are like oh, let's dismiss the polls. in the same polls in pennsylvania, bob kesey, the democrat, is running for senate. joe biden is losing. in wisconsin, tammy baldwin is winning, joe biden is losing.■ç why is that? i've been wondering that for months. why is that? it is weird that there are that many split ticket voters. we saw the answer last night. there is a certain percentage of voters that would be happy to go for a normal democrat, that are concerned about joe biden's age. there may be some other issues, maybe inflation, maybe some weird stuff with trump being a celebrity. but the main thrust of it, the main difference between joe biden and bob casey is their age. so we have to be honest about this. if joe biden is up for it, it he is going to prove it area and that is why they have this debate engine. i feel like i am taking crazy pills when they are like oh, don't be negative. it's just one night. the whole point of why joe biden wanted the debate in june was to prove he was up for it. he knew that was his biggest hurdle. and he did the opposite. so we need to grapple with that. and maybe that means rallying around joe ■çbiden. i will be the first one to do it if that is necessary. but before we do that, should we at least talk about it? shouldn't we think about what the other alternatives might be, or at least make sure that joe biden understands what he's got to do and this campaign team understands what he has to do? that is the part that is frustrating. >> all right, tim, while the audience grapples with what you just said, we are going to let them take a walk, take a breath come and get a cocktail. >> i'm sorry, i'm so sorry. >> a reminder of why elections matter. we are going to break down today's supreme court rulings, and a big reveal coming in trump's immunity case on monday. and later, how women's ncaa basketball captured the nation's attention. i will share some of my very special conversation from aspen with two legendary coaches. when our nightcap ■çand the 11t hour continues. that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease... put it in check with rinvoq... a once-daily pill. when symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief and reduced fatigue with rinvoq. check! when flares kept trying to slow me down i got lasting steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check! and when my doctor saw damage, rinvoq helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining. check! for both uc and crohn's: rapid symptom relief lasting steroid-free remission. and visibly reduced damage. check. check. and check! rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers, including lymphoma and skin, heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. put uc and crohn's in check ...and keep them there with rinvoq. ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq and learn how abbvie can help you save. camilla tried the new scent of gain relax flings and it changed everything. (♪♪) hey dave, don't knock it 'til you smell it. new gain relax flings. i'm andrea, and this is why i switched to shopify. it gave me so much peace of mind. if we make a change, my site's not going to go down. and just knowing that i have a platform that we can rely on, that is gold to us. start your free trial today. summer savings are on the way! wayfair's fourth of july clearance is here and it's the talk of the neighborhood! because now through july 7th, you can save up to 70% on everything home. yes! save on finds for indoor and outdoor, and get surprise flash deals you don't want to miss. and get it all with fast shipping straight to your door. save up to 70% off with wayfair's fourth of july clearance now through july 7th and amp up your summer with savings! ♪ wayfair. every style. every home. ♪ - [narrator] life with ear ringing sounded like a constant train whistle i couldn't escape. then i started taking lipo flavonoid. with 60 years of clinical experience, it's the number one doctor recommended brand for ear ringing. and now i'm finally free. take back control with lipo flavonoid. just hours just hours after the debate wrapped up■ç emma we got anothe reminder that elections have serious consequence is. today the supreme court's conservative majority overturned a 40-year-old decision that helped federal agencies make rules. rules that protect clean air and water, that keep food safe, and to keep let out of our toys. the court also undermined a key tool that prosecutors have been using in the january 6 cases. meeting the charges for some riders can actually go away. monday is the court's last day, and the justices still have to decide whether donald trump is immune from prosecution for his attempt to overturn the last election. but look at what this court has already done to impact americans in their everyday lives, and just remember who is responsible for the conservative super majority. donald j trump, who could have more chances to appoint far right justices■ç if he wins in november. our nightcap is still with us. charles, you know i'm turning to you first. this decision on federal agencies is known as the chevron decision. what is a mean for the average american? why should we care? >> well, stephanie, this is a very important decision and stood for basically 40+ years, that allowed for the courts to take the interpretation from federal agencies where the law was ambiguous. so, for example, you are talking about things like fishing and hunting, and other regulations that they have seen and the u.s. under the law, they allow the people who deal with these most, the federal agencies that were responsible for understanding these areas most to interpret what the law should mean. in this case, when they have now overruled chevron, what they have done is they have taken that power away from ■ç these federal agencies that deal with these issues every day. and they have siphoned this power and given it to the judiciary. this is a very, very big deal. because not only was chevron long-standing, what we are seeing here, stephanie, is a complete overhaul of how the judiciary is supposed to operate with respect to its power and what is enumerated to it. the supreme court has been on an unprecedented level of a power grab, and they continue to remind americans that, given the current structure, there is nothing that you can do about it . when you talk about elections and their consequences, this is a prime example. because for as long as these decisions are made, or can be made by the super majority, they are going to continue to do so in such a way that not only gives power to the spring court but to the entire judiciary, as well. and that is what ■çwe saw. >> dan, conservatives often rail against activist judges. but if judges suddenly have all this power over regulations, won't there be a whole lot of activist judges in our future? >> yes. i think that they retired that talking point, back with caring about the tax. tort reform, remember, we used to care about that. now every law is like okay, if a woman gets to get an abortion someone can sue her to stop her from getting an abortion. that is of the texas family law is. they have retired all their principles on this front. it will lead to more activist judges. and i think there is going to be a lot of unintended consequences from this that may be, hopefully in the same way that dobbs has■ç for democrat benefits once they see the downside of this. one more thing, just going back to the stakes of this and the discussion of the court. about beating donald trump this time. that's the thing about this. if donald trump gets back and he could get two more supreme court appointees. so a majority of supreme court justices for like four decades would be donald trump appointees. that should alarm folks, and i think that also speaks to the stakes and making sure that the democrats are putting the most aggressive campaign forward they can. >> molly, does this court have any respect for precedent after this decision? and if not, what should people be genuinely worried about next? contraception, marriage, restriction on medical abortion? >> ■çwell, what was interesting was earlier in the term that kicks the can on a bunch of issues that they could've made more radical rulings. you know, they kicked it out on standing. certain cases that they could've said crazy stuff about, they were like we will just wait until after the election. not quite that, but there certainly was a feeling that things moved around. there will be more of this. this is heritage foundation, product 2025 wish list stuff. strip the administrative state, making it so the epa can't do epa stuff. make it so the department of education can't do education stuff. make it so this is the sort of dream of the harlan crow types. and there is a reason, thomas and alito are smiling. because they are remaking this country in this heritage foundation image.■ç >> sarah, there are so many high-profile cases this term. do you think every day americans are paying attention to how the supreme court is changing things? >> i don't think so. and i think it is because it feels very complicated, even this fisheries discussion, i was trying to understand and could not get my head around it. i think what tim was saying, about how 2016 really change things in a way that wasn't just trump being elected, it was the fact that he got to remake this court. and it just feels like, i think it was roseann, where you find out the father had been dead for years. it feels like the country died, sort of, in 2016. and i heard biden say last nighç oh, you know, he is going to make sure that roe v wade gets back in. you are president now! you can't do that now, you don't have the power to do that now. i think that is why so many people were frustrated. and remembering when roe v wade was overturned, i cried, a lot of people cried. i feel like i have been fighting that happening for 20 years and then it finally happened. and people just kind of lost a lot of hope when that happened. >> charles, let's talk about this ruling on january 6th defendants. what does it mean? >> what they did in this case, stephanie, was try and take a really weird and byzantine route to essentially narrow the definition of what it is to have an official proceeding. at the core of this case, that was the question of whether, what was taking place. the certification■ç counted as official proceeding for the purposes of obstruction. and obstruction is one of the things that many january 6 have been charged with, including the president. and the key with that charge is basically an official proceeding. what the supreme court decided was well, as the law is written, the official proceeding that was taking place with respect to the certification on january 6th isn't what was meant by the actual law. now, this does get kicked back down and allows the department of justice to take a different route to charge people with obstruction under this new interpretation of the law. but it also delays a number of prosecutions and jumbles up those people who have already been convicted of obstruction because of the previous interpretation. ■ç we know that donald trump has also been charged with obstruction at some point, and what we know because of this is that it is going to require a recalibration for prosecutors to think about how they go about proving it, given this narrow interpretation of the law that the supreme court has set forth. >> molly, were you surprised to see justice jackson joining the conservatives in the majority on the january 6th decision? >> you know, yes and no. she's very smart, and this is a very, i mean, there is so much mental gymnastics with all of these decisions. so the answer is i don't know. i mean, this court every day breaks my heart in 1 million different ways. so i have to believe that justice jackson ■çhad some kind of, you know, that there was a larger purpose here. yes, it is just so, i mean, this is so heartbreaking when you think about climate stuff and when you think about how, i mean, biden was saying that he would be able to appoint two justices if he gets re-elected. i mean, if that is possible, if that happens, there is a chance that we could have a more normal supreme court. but it is also possible we live like this for many, many years. and the consequences of it for climate, they are incalculable. >> it's time for everybody to get another drink. attended it to you last segment and molly did at this time. but everyone is staying right here. get a drink, take a walk, take a deep breath. but come back. when we returned it is time forç mvps. this was such a week. i cannot wait to hear who this crew has chosen as the big names. when the 11th hour and the nightcap continue. tcap continu. it has superior hold plus keeps us comfy all day with it's pressure absording layer. time for a bite! if your mouth could talk it would ask for... poligrip. this charmin ultra soft smooth tear is soooo soft and soo smooth. charmin ultra soft smooth tear has wavy perforations that tear so much better for a smooth more enjoyable go. charmin, enjoy the go. sup? -who are you? for a smooth more enjoyable go. i'm your inner child. get in. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] listen. horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. our nightcap our nightcap crew is still with us, and it is time for mvps of the week. tim, i don't even know yours, but i have a sinking feeling you are going to be our debbie downer tonight, aren't you? >> i was going to, but it is been so long i am flipping.■ç donald trump won. let's never have an mvp of another week ever again. let that should be everyone's goal from the biden campaign down. i've already said too much. i hear you are doing some women's college basketball tonight, so i'm giving it to my lsu tiger girl. she has a new rap album out this week. check it out. sorry, trump, giving it to instead. >> you are no longer the debbie downer. who is your pick? >> the commission on presidential debates, you don't miss them until they're gone. when they brokered this debate with cnn i thought who needs them? they've been doing this basically for a long time, decades. and i thought oh, you know, ■ç they don't matter anymore. and it is like watching that star trek thing that we watched in the hermetically sealed room, where there was no applause and they were staring at each other. bring back the commission on presidential debates. we need you. >> well, molly john fast was not the debbie downer, but she just proved herself to be the nerd of the night. commission on presidential debates. sarah, excite us. who is your pick? >> my pick is hillary clinton. because i was watching the debate last night, i was watching it and i was listening to biden, and for some reason it just came out of my mouth. i miss hillary clinton. and i think it is because, i mean, she is the only person, i think emma who has been able to soundly beat trump in a debate. i remember him being tongue- tied with her, and i wanted to see that last ■çnight and i didn't. it just made me miss her. >> there you go. mr. coleman, who is your pick this evening? >> the 55th pick in the nba draft, the los angeles lakers selected bronny james, the firstborn son of lebron james. knowing can no what it is like to step into the limelight with a father named lebron james other than michael jordan's son. and for him to do his same thing that his father does, play the game of basketball. the level of criticism he is under and will continue to be under is gargantuan. so i applaud him for deciding to say you know what? forget it. i'm going to pursue my dreams and ■çdo what i want to do, and i'm not going to worry about these critics. and here he is now into the nba. he knows that the lights are bright, he knows the cameras are hot. that he is still up to the challenge. so now we will get to witness the first father and son duo to ever play in the nba together. i wish him all the luck. he is going to need it. but my mvp is bronny james. >> that is awesome. charles, it was less than two years ago that bronny james collapsed with a heart condition and didn't know if you ever play again. now here he is , fulfilling not just his dream, but lebron james in lifelong dream. how great is it for him? >> yes, really big day for the james family. i wish them all the best. >> you know what, guys? i was afraid we were not going to have a sterling, exciting, happy mvp tonight. but charles cml591ñyou pulled us through. i want to thank you all for being here. this has been the longest week ever. thank you all. charles coleman junior, molly john fast, tim miller, and sarah cooper on your first visit to the nightcap. we loved having you. we are going to stay on basketball, but go to college basketball. you know, shattered viewership this year. i spoke with two of the most influential coaches about what it took to score that big, big win when the 11th hour continues. ahhh, there's nothing like a day out with friends. that's nice, but shingles doesn't care! 99% of adults 50 years or older already have the virus that causes shingles inside them, and it can reactivate at any time. a perfect day for a family outing! guess what? shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. only shingrix is proven over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. ♪♪ hey! i'll give you $574 if you switch. for gerald? 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>> well, i give people their dues. her institution, where she went to school, loves women's basketball. connecticut loves women's basketball. baylor loves women's basketball. lsu loves women's basketball. and i think those fans are always ■çgoing to follow their players. and she played in two national championship games and brought attention to our game. i think angel reese brought attention to our game. i just, it's a good thing. i don't think there's anything bad. i don't like what they do to angel reese, from a social media perspective. but angel can handle it. but i just think it's a good thing. there's nothing wrong with it. i think those two players in particular know they are not the best players in the wnba right now. but they are going to be hall of famer someday. so whatever you can bring to the table as a rookie, bring it. and i think they brought a lot of attention. >> du ■çregret lsu embracing an where we are? >> no, i thought they had a vision of what was to come when nobody else did. i thought everybody else was kind of reluctant and fighting it. and i just thought the people in charge at lsu said you can write it all you want, it's coming. and you better embrace it. >> i think it's great that the players have an opportunity to earn money playing. i really do. >> it doesn't get harder to coach them? >> no, no. it doesn't get harder to coach them, to the extent that, well, this kid is making money so now they are not going to listen to you. that doesn't exist. but think about what in il means. what it was supposed ■çto mean. name, image, and likeness. what does that mean? that means i can go to school and if the school sells jerseys with my name on it, i should get a piece of that. i'm in. if the school puts me on the ticket brochure, i'm in. refrigerator stickers with my face on it, i get paid for that. i wanted to a car commercial for a car company, i'm in on that. i think they should get on that. number, name, image, likeness. that's what it means. instead, what it means now, is now it's legal. so now it's legal for me to say i will give you $500,000 to come play for me. is that really name, image, and likeness? no. whatever it was meant to be, these adults, ■;u$ey don't understand that generally speaking coaches are just criminals who haven't gone to jail yet. so, by the time the ncaa finished writing this they had already figured out how to take advantage of this new rule. see? so, there has to be some kind of guard rails put on this. but me, i'm in favor of them getting paid. i hate the transfer portal. i don't hate that they are getting paid. i hate that they can just get up and leave anytime they want. and then you know what they say? well, coaches can leave whenever they want and go coach at another school. really? i have a $5 million buyout. so kid, you want to come play for me? you leave after one year and you owe me this. no, no, i will sue the ncaa. and what are we talking ■çabout here? what's right for me isn't right for you? i'm all in favor of them getting paid. i just hate the fact that there is no obligation. you signed a contract when you come and play for myself, lsu, connecticut, or any other school for that matter. >> you don't like to say that you coach women's basketball. >> i don't. i don't like it. i don't like when people separated, like i coach women's basketball and you coach men's basketball. i coach basketball. if you coach swimming, you coach swimming. >> but swimming is a coed team. >> that's what i'm saying, min swimming or women swimming. they both have a jump in the pool and they both have to get from here to there real fast. so i coach basketball. whether it's men's basketball women's basketball, they have to be able to get the ball fromç here to there really fast and put it in the basket. to me, you can't do it differently, and to me the game is the game, and it needs to be coached a certain way. and i hate the fact that too many coaches for too many years did coach the players like they were girls in high school, we are women's basketball in college. that is disrespectful. that is disrespectful to the players themselves. if you are a guy, and i coach men. i had three pros on my team when i coach boys. it is disrespectful to say, think of it this way. you have a son and her daughter and you wanted to be olympic swimmers. you take them to the best swimming coach in america. and he takes her son, there is at the end of the pool, and says swim or drown. take your daughter by the hand ç says come on, sweetheart, and go down, you walk into the little pool, and says we are going to start right here. that's disrespectful. if we are going to coach an olympian that way, that you coach and olympian that way. otherwise you are being disrespectful. and i grew up in a society in italy where, when all the guys were at war, the women ran the operation. anyone who tells me women can't handle the toughness and the mental toughness, the physical toughness, and the demands that guys can handle, that is a bunch of crap that guys have said for years to create that narrative. i don't buy it. >> i will say what you really want to say. it is sexist. anybody disagree with that? if you have followed my press conference in the playoffs, he might be in here, ■çfor all i know. just coach. just coach the game. i have a son and i have a daughter. i am going to teach them the same way. just go coach the game, and that's what he's trying to say. but he is doing a really nice job as a male not to say it. >> yeah, you have to have a certain accent to be able to say that. >> and look, i have learned this. gino and i have been around quite a while. gino was a little bit older than i am. i've learned this. he is from the east coast, i am from the south. he can say the exact same thing and i can say it, and who is going to get attacked? here i am. >> what? you're out of your mind. >> he knows it's ■çportrait writers. >> if you are a guy and you say anything about women or women's basketball that isn't part of the mainstream you are in big trouble. so i don't want to hear anything about that. >> it's like cursing with an english accent. >> no, let me say this, and i mean this, guys. we lost some of the best in this business. the people i looked up to. and really, 11? who wins 11 championships? it's hard. it's hard. to be able to be on the stage with him is an honor for me. it really is. and we go at it. we go at it■ç. but there is a respect there. i hear it all the time. what you think of geno? and i think a lot of women want me to answer a certain way and they are shocked when i answer a different way. i respect what he has done, and i've said this, and i will say uñ if @yvjját(ur(uá ÷#ñ■had d would be hurley and anybody in the men's game, as he should. 11. and for him to ldstay is committed to an institution as long as he has, kudos to geno. and i mean that. i really mean that. he and i have never been on the stage together like this. maybe a final four or two. i would have to think about it. but it was an honor for me to r be asked, because i wanted to hear what he says. i pick up his press conferences when we play against each other, but he has seen a lot more than i have. and i played the game a long time. and i witnessed a lot. but you are looking at two dinosaurs here, really. >> well, there's a couple in t the audience, too. you know who you are. but you know, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt. but when you are a dinosaur, you can say whatever you want to say because you really don't care what the blowback is going to be. because you have already been hit so many times with so many different things, that you get to a point where you know, i'm going to say it, and i'm the messenger. messenger. you don't like it, that's your problem, not mine. >> it is what makes james carville the number one cable news guest. >> you came to see me and i said ■çlosing through and through. we have half the cajuns in you know? >> thanks again to geno and kim . we will be right back with more. . migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. i'll be honest. by the end of the day, my floors...yeesh. but who has the time to clean? that's why i love my swiffer wetjet. it's a quick and easy way to get my floors clean. wetjet absorbs and locks grime deep inside. look at that! swiffer wetjet. - [narrator] life with ear ringing sounded like a constant train whistle i couldn't escape. then i started taking lipo flavonoid. with 60 years of clinical experience, it's the number one doctor recommended brand for ear ringing. and now i'm finally free. take back control with lipo flavonoid. thanks again for thanks again for hanging out with us on this friday night. remember, you can catch our night cap again on saturdays at 11:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. so if you really like tonight and want a reply, you got it tomorrow. got a friend, a hot date? they can tune in, too. i wish you all a very good night. rest up. this was a long ■çweek. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of monday. welcome welcome