court has done so far. it revolutionizes administrative law, it gives over all this power to the courts. it's more obscure to people, but law students are picking themselves off the floor today and legal textbook writers are throwing their old editions out. what this says is think about the matthew kacsmaryk case and mifepristone, it means judges will decide and the regime that we've had that's absolutely been cannon -- listen to what agencies that are expert, that's now gone and instead it's courts who will be deciding, a total revolution in administrative law which affects everybody. >> and we're still waiting, of course, forimmunity decision. we know monday will be the las we'll see that on monday. going out with a bang. andrew, harry, and marcus, thanks toy, all of you. and the long view, as we await president biden's remarks at a rally in north carolina. how presidents have made the tough call in the past about their own political futures, and their health. next, with nbc presidential historian michael beschloss. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc.at - so this is pickleball? - pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? what is cirkul? cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com. dave's company just scored the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. watching president biden's event in north carolina, the crowd hearing earlier speakers, he's expected to speak soon this hour with his wife, with jill biden, probably she will introduce him. we'll bring you the comments live when he begins and after what most believe was a dismal debate performance from president biden last night, democratic insiders are on fire about his health, his ability to complete another term if he's elected. would he consider stepping aside and letting the democratic convention choose a different standard bearer. and joining me now is historian michael beschloss. you've studied past presidents, we've both watched debates. >> sure. >> there is a precedent, most striking, of course, is probably lbj, march 31st, 1968. >> yes, lyndon johnson basically tried to keep the power he had by resisting possibly being defeated by robert kennedy in the primaries, but more than that, he wanted to choose his successor, and he chose hubert humphrey, if humphrey had been elected lost by a narrow margin humphrey would have probably looked to johnson for the next four years for a lot of advice. >> and, what did lady bird johnson tell you about the reason that he chose to basically step aside? >> well, it was sort of mysterious at the time. i said, why was it? and she said, lyndon promised me, you know, he had a massive heart attack in 1955. he would only serve one term. and i was worried that a another term would kill him, and sure enough, lbj died two days after the term he would have served had he run for reelection. >> the example of dwight eisenhower, several problems, a heart attack, they covered up his condition at several times but it's out in denver playing golf. >> right. >> and he -- the whole question of a second term, 1956 campaign, and he made a different decision about how open to be about his medical condition. >> right. had a massive heart attack also in 1955. the next year, just seven weeks before the republican convention, he suffered ilitis, and for the first time they would release everything that could be released. the pictures of the president's colon on blackboards pointed to by the press secretary, x-rays, all sorts of things about his bowel movements, he felt more transparency would help him to run again. so it did. very good example for presidents. >> of course there's ronald reagan, always questions about his memory, his acuity, and as we later know he was later diagnosed after the presidency. but, you've recounted that in 1987, here's someone who accomplished incredible transformative things in his second term while he was under, you know, suspicion of not, you know, not being as sharp as he should have, and at the time our oldest president. what about these summits -- >> yes, absolutely. so he created a relationship with the then soviet union and with gorbachev, but at the same time people around him said that he was not what he had been before. george schultz, the secretary of state, pulled him out of a meeting with gorbachev in the west wing and told him unless you're going to be sharper than you have been here making irrelevant jokes i'm not going to let you go back into that room with the soviet leader. >> just astounding. your historical -- not hysterical. >> well, hysterical sometimes. >> and today might be one of those days. michael beschloss, thank you very much. and panic mode, next, what top democrats are saying about the president's rough night and what to do next as president biden prepares to speak at any moment in north carolina, stay with us, you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. >> it looked really uncomfortable and awkward. trump was pretty good. he made his points. biden was incoherent, and rambling. it's really sad his family would put him up there in that condition. so, it was -- it was sad. since my citi custom cash® card automatically adjusts to earn me more cash back in my top eligible category... suddenly life's feeling a little more automatic. like doors opening wherever i go... 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ask about the power of 3 with ozempic®. in our family there was a passion for glass making that's passed down through the generations. on ancestry i was able to actually put together our family tree. each person is a glass worker. we stood on some pretty broad shoulders to get to where we are today. why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. republicans are seizing on the president's poor debate performance and not surprisingly ignoring all the lies spoken by donald trump. here's the house speaker a short time ago. >> president biden showed last night that he was weak, sadly, that he is feeble. and he said a number of things that are just demonstrably untrue. i think this is a very dangerous situation. unfortunately it's not the house that gets to determine that, it's the cabinet, under the constitution, of course, it's the cabinet that makes that decision. i would, i would ask the cabinet members to search their hearts. >> so, he's talking about the 25th amendment, joining us, peter baker, chief white house correspondent of the "new york times," sam stein. and a white house reporter at the "wall street journal." peter, tom friedman in the "new york times" is writing, i watched the biden/trump alone in a lisbon hotel room and it made me weep. i cannot remember a more heartbreaking moment precisely because what it revealed, joe biden a good man and good president has no business running for reelection. when it comes to that point who would have to convince the president to pull out of the race? now, he also went on to write that, you know, donald trump was a fire hose of lies, so, peter, he's -- that's why the stakes, he believes, are so high. >> it's worth remembering, for our viewers that tom is an opinion columnist, doesn't represent the news side. i'm a reporter, be clear on that. >> i should have pointed out. >> i know. >> presuming that. >> i want to make clear for viewers. but yeah, i think that what tom is writing there reflects what you're hearing from a lot of democrats today, not just mike johnson, in fact, actually, i think mike johnson's comments there are probably good for the president because it's going to get the dander up of the democrats who are going to say, well, who are you to say, and, you know, trump is a liar, and so forth, that they'd rather get back into the partisan mode, than grapple with what they saw last night. and what you heard, you know, andrea, you and i have done this a long time, 38 years of covering politics, i never heard a party panic the way i've been hearing them the last 12 hours on the democratic side, it's political equivalent of a bank run, a run on the bank, they're just so concerned about this, and there is conversation about what to do and whether there should be a new nominee at this point, even people like senator jeanne shaheen saying that's the question on the table. what's remarkable for this white house they had successfully taken off the table with the president's strong performance at the state of the union. instead of having it settle concerns about his age and performance it's made it the central issue for the moment. >> and sam stein, is the big difference the teleprompter? he had a teleprompter at the state of the union and this white house has kept him protected from major interviews and from, you know, impromptu sessions. with the press. >> yeah, there's a couple hiengs here at play, i think, one is the teleprompter, obviously, it's a lot easier to read off of a script than it is to speak contemporaneously. two is, they have kept him cocooned largely, or he has himself kept himself cocooned, not doing major interviews with the press, very dutifully kept a schedule that doesn't have him out in front all that often, campaign stops that are consistent but not too regular. all of that's true. and then three is, you know, some of it is just sort of the curse of the incumbent president but magnified by all of these issues that surround biden, and by that, peter is absolutely right, this is panic on a scale we haven't seen, but in 2012 you all remember after the first obama/romney debate there was an incredible amount of democratic panic. the difference between then and now is that there was also a real confidence within the party that barack obama possessed the skills, the political chops, to rectify the situation, to right the ship, and in this case joe biden has not given any demonstration that he has that capacity. >> and sabrina, i guess the question would be who around the president would say tough things to him, because he's surrounded by people who've been with him for years? >> well, that's precisely what's really challenging about this, and you've heard senior biden advisers already rule out the prospect of him stepping aside and, in fact, saying that president biden is committed to participating in the september debate with former president trump. i mean, i think some democrats believe that someone like president obama, given his influence over the party, and his relationship with president biden, might be someone who could have a conversation with him, we obviously don't know if that's something that president obama is even considering and, of course, the first lady jill biden is someone, you know, arguably whom the president would listen to the most. what you have in biden's inner circle is a lot of support for him, even in the aftermath of the debate. trying to dismiss it as an off night, that he can still bounce back from. but to echo what both peter and sam are saying what we're reporting at the journal is, these are democratic allies, these are biden's own allies from lawmakers on capitol hill to wealthy donors and other surrogates who are questioning whether or not he should remain at the top of the ticket. it's hard to see a scenario where he's not at the top of the ticket. he would have to be willing to step aside himself. the majority of delegates are committed to him. the question they're all asking the morning after the debate is what can be done in the less than five months that remain between today and election day in november. >> and, maybe more urgently, between now and the convention, peter, because there is a process where he could step aside, and then the delegates, they would probably have to do a first ballot where he would no longer be on the ticket. have to check with the technical aspects of this. but, you know, who would he listen to? i don't think he would listen to barack obama because it was president obama who, you know, passed over him for the nomination in 2016. and so that created a lot of heartburn in the biden world. >> yeah, i agree. i think i've heard democrats say if obama were to make such an intervention it would have the opposite effect on president biden because he is still kind of raw about what happened in 2016, in that sense. i've heard people say, look, chuck schumer, nancy pelosi, jim clyburn, they have some influence, jim clyburn said we have to stay the course, that's what they'll say publicly for now. but the truth is, you're right. he doesn't have a lot of people he respects who served with him for years in the senate and whose opinions really matter to him. i think the people around him, in his inner circle, they do, they love him, they really respect and admire him and they have a hard time. it's a very hard thing to tell somebody we think there's a real issue here with age if they actually do think so. there's no evidence right now that they're doing that or have done that. i did some reporting recently for a story and i found that nobody could tell me there was any kind of process in terms of making a decision on whether to run for reelection or not outside of his family. nobody had a meeting saying let's look over the pros and cons and see what the drawbacks might be. they waited until he told them he was going to run again. that's where we're at now. >> peter baker, sam stein, and sabrina siddiqqi, thanks so much. how could poor debate performance affect congressional -- you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. 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(kev) ... i guess we're movin'. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. we're watching president biden's event in north carolina where he'll make his first comments after last night's debate which is sending shock waves across the capitol where white house and senate members own jobs are on the line. joining us now alabama senator doug jones and congressman david jolly. senator jones, it is great to see you. this is a tough year for senators anyway, because the democrats, the democrats senators have more races at stake and already you've got a manchin problem in west virginia and with him stepping aside. so, now, what are they saying? we've heard that senator shaheen are saying there should be talk about another -- an open convention? >> well you know, andrea, every senator is going to run their own race regardless of what is happening at the top of ticket. that is always been the case. and every senator running as a democrat incumbent has a hell of a record for the people in their state. and that is what they've been running on. they would be running on that regardless of who the president was. because politics are local when it comes to those races. that is not to say that they're not concerned. obviously that was a tough night last night. but at same time, they're going to point to the contrast and talk about in 2017 it was republicans ringing her hands after access hollywood tape came out and talking about the 25th amendment. this is nothing new. and each one of the senators are going to run their own race and doing it in a very strong manner. >> david jolly, what was your reaction to last night? >> i think we are quick to put it only in the lens of november. which is understandable. but i think what we witnessed last night was a national moment that deserves a national conversation. one we haven't had, as you and michael beschloss were talking, since the reagan administration. the nation last night saw our president, regardless of party, clearly having decline from what they saw four years ago on the debate stage and i think it does beg the question, is he the president that can remain president until january of 2029? that is just the real hard question. he's not asking to serve until next january. he's asking to serve for four and a half more years. and joe biden has served this country in a remarkable way. he stopped donald trump. and for people who care about democracy and stopping donald trump, nobody did a greater service to the nation than joe biden. is he the only person that can do that again in 2024? i think that is a question for president biden himself and also for the democratic party. i sadly think last night started to answer that question for the country. it will be hyperpartisan and polarized. i don't know that we could have a national conversation but last night deserves it. >> and there were a lot of concerns by people who love joe biden and i've covered him for decades. and a lot of people are pulling for him last night, were just shocked. >> now he, look, i've said all along, his age and his ability is a -- a question that needs to be having a national conversation as david said. but i will also say this, the presidency is much more than two minute answers or one-minute rebuttals. look at joe biden's judgment and look at what he's proposing for the next four years and he's a team that he's put around him and how they do this. so i think that the conversation will do but i think joe biden will end up prevailing on this and they do the right thing for the best interest of the country as he's always done. >> senator doug jones and former congressman david jolly, thanks to both of you. and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports" and chris jansing starts after this break. and chg starts after this break. dave's company just scored the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. good day, i'm chris jansing live at mbc