7:00 eastern, right here on msnbc. that is tonight's last word, the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. >> tonight, the biden and trump rematch, now less than two days away. why trump is now trash talking the first debate, even though he agreed to all of the rules. an alarming new warning about trump's plans for the economy, and what they would mean for your money. my talk with senator joe mansion, why he left the democratic party and how he will be voting come november as the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday night. good evening once again. live from aspen, colorado at the aspen ideas festival and we are 133 days away from the election and less than 48 hours away from the first presidential debate between president joe biden and former president donald trump. we've been watching us trump has been talking about this debate for months, and we think you need to know what he has been saying throughout these months. so let's start with the last few days, where he seems to have some big problems with what is going to happen in this first debate, watch. >> number 1, it was cnn, fake news, right, who hates trump. jake tapper, who really hates trump. and dana bash. then they said, think of this, no audience. it's like death. there's two of us and two of them. it's like death. i think fake tapper would really help himself but you will see immediately, i will probably be dana bash, that's the other, i will probably be negotiating with three people but that's okay, i've done that before. i'll be debating three people instead of one half of a person. >> trump has said repeatedly, that the debate set up propose to him was an offer he could not accept, like complaining about not having an audience but here's the thing that you need to know, he did accept the offer. and if you look at things from has said in the past, you should be feeling great about his chances on thursday night. back in april, his campaign was calling for more debates with biden and for them to start earlier in the campaign. he's getting that. in may, trump himself told hugh hewitt that he will be willing to take anyone as a debate moderator because it didn't make a difference and then, there was this challenge just six weeks ago. >> come on joe, let's do it, anywhere, anytime, anyplace. just a month ago, donald trump wanted to debate joe biden, quote, anytime, anyplace, with anyone, as a moderator. but here we are, 48 hours out and he's insisting, he got stuck with a deal that he couldn't accept, but he did it anyway. and he's talking as much trash as he can at both the moderators and the format as we get closer to the big night. let's find out why. so let's get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel and bring in my dear friend peter baker,, axios political reporter hans nichols and harry lipman, former deputy assistant general. will get your thoughts in a moment but we've got to start with this debate trump likes to debate himself as this great businessman but now he finally took a deal that he could not accept it and tonight he actually told the washington examiner, i couldn't have said no. yes, he absolutely could have. what do you make of this? i mean, from the cheap seats, he is sounding nervous. >> yeah, he is managing expectations and this is an 11th hour attempt, no pun intended. all campaigns do this, what is different here, it's usually it's some official that peter and i are out with at drinks on background, talking anonymously, the difference here is it's donald trump, he is doing his own sort of debate expectation management and like a lot of things but donald trump, that is unique. but it's really hard and the whole montage you provide, it's hard to erase four years of trash talk or downplaying expectations are basically saying that joe biden is so incompetent with four days of saying, oh he's a masterful oratory, and these parameters are unfair. for more than four years, trump has been sort of laying the predicate for this debate and i don't suspect he's going to have a lot of success trying to change voters perceptions about what qualifies as a success. >> peter, that's the that point i want to get to. all of a sudden, out of nowhere, after video after video, sing joe biden can't walk straight, he's feeble, now he's talking like biden is this master debater, isn't sleepy joe his favorite tag name for the president? what in the world is going on? >> obviously, he recognizes that the way he has set things up in previous weeks made it so easy for joe biden that all biden had to do was go to the debate and not dribble on his tie and he would be seen as a winner because he's not in fact the doddering senile old man, suddenly of course he has to recalibrate and as hans said, he's not particularly subtle or it's not much of a mystery, he is just trying to you know, set expectations and reset the bar so it doesn't look too terrible when biden stands up to him and doesn't look like he's the old man the republican videos have been trying to portray. that doesn't mean that biden will have it easy, it's obviously a challenge for biden and he will have to go up against a guy who is bombastic and loud and aggressive in a way that biden doesn't like to be, himself but i think the expectations setting game isn't going to change the factors here. everybody knows what's going on. >> sources tell nbc news that president biden's team is preparing him to get under trump's skin, if trump starts the night more restrained than usual. what do you think about that strategy? sounds like biden is going to rattle his cage . >> he saw this in the run-up to the state of the union where biden likes to take a shot at trump, you listen to him closely and there's a great benefit to listening to what they say to donors, that gets to the core of what biden thinks of trump, he's called him a loser, he's gone even further, so, yeah, biden want to take a shot and the big picture here, is certainly within the context of the biting campaign as they want him to be portrayed as a fighter and someone who is not afraid of trump and that has the benefit of going after trump it also shows the american people that he is ready to fight for them and that's the clear strategy heading into this. >> peter, hillary clinton, the only person on planet earth who has debated both trump and biden wrote an op-ed for your paper about what we should be watching for thursday night. what stuck out to you? >> yeah, she's remembering what it was like to debate trump, who, you know, engages in bullying tactics and throws out a blizzard of claims, and you know, falsehoods, and conspiracy theories and as she put it, socks her at one point on stage and i think her point is, in terms of advice to biden is not to let trump do that to him or not to let trump dominate the stage and also not to let trump fluster him. trump is trying to get biden off of his game. the president has been trying to get under trump's skin for the last few weeks, and it's been unusual and maybe it's effective, you mentioned the sleepy joe nickname that trump has often given the president, lately biden has been calling him sleepy don because he seemed to fall asleep at his trial in new york for hush money payments. so i think you will see a vigorous debate but the present. at times he's looked his age in public but for the big nights, like the state of the union, he's brought a lot of energy to it and that's probably what we should expect on thursday night. >> explain this one to me because cnn is saying the moderators will not fact check the candidates during the debate, they're saying it's not the right arena for it. do you agree with that? we interview people all the time, we moderate discussions and when someone give us us a line of bs, we call it out. why wouldn't that happen at a presidential debate? >> define fact check. i have a feeling if trump comes out and says the soviet union doesn't dominate eastern europe, i note jake tapper and dana well enough and they will instantly want to correct him. but now will there be a four point . visitation of the soviet union in europe, no, but if either candidate says something that is obviously untrue, i expect journalistic instinct to take over and i have enough respect for both of those acres, both of those journalists, that they will, and it's kind of like what we like to do, right? if someone that we are interviewing in real-time says something that is obviously untrue, it's an opportunity the reporter has to follow up or to press. so, you know, it's really just what's the definition of fact check. it's a loophole that, any producer could walk through any correspondent, any philadelphia lawyer can figure out and that is my toss to harry. this is a legal loophole, what is a fact check? >> we are tossing to harry but we have a new topic. because there some developments in trump's legal cases, today judge merchan loosened trump's gag order as he is awaiting sentencing next month. he's obviously the judge of the new york trial. can you break down what this means? >> the important point is not that he loosened it but that he kept part of it, so what he said is, the trial is over, i can't protect witnesses anymore, go ahead and have your beef with michael cohen, stormy daniels and the jurors, i wish i could protect them but they have been discharged but still my job to protect the integrity of the proceedings. you still can't go after court personnel, people working on it. it's limited by what is now in front of him but you could think or trump actually asked to scrap the whole thing and it really matters that between now and sentencing, and certainly after sentencing, basically, for years to come now, he is under the jurisdiction of the court. he is a defendant or a convict, not a normal free person and still, judge merchan can tell him what to do and put him in jail if he doesn't obey. >> today trump's camp is claiming that jack smith team mishandled evidence at mar-a- lago. so smith filed new evidence showing the complete mess they found at mar-a-lago, boxes filled with golf shorts, crammed next to sensitive documents that the president never should have taken out of the white house, that he's got his personal effects jammed in there. what do you think? >> messy closet but clean law. what they have said is there's never been a case of it has never been a case that has upheld trump's claim, what he would have to show if they destroyed evidence and did it on purpose. what happened here is they encountered the mess that you just showed us and they kept, box by box, integrity, and trump's beef is, you vary the order, how would you put those back in a box, without the order but the bigger point is, so what? you know what was in the box before, you know what was in it now. nothing's been destroyed and certainly, there's no bad faith, so it is a very far- fetched claim that would take most judges, 99% of judges, they would just dismiss it on the papers of course, we have the canon factor here and we will see what she does with it but there's really nothing to this at all, and their claim is, and it's accurate, each box, box by box, integrity and we don't have to somehow make sure that the same order of these messy pages that we found at mar-a- lago remain in some fashion. >> i don't want to let you go before i ask you one more thing about canon because today, she seemed less likely to buy trump's claim that evidence should be tossed out. you've got a column, where you say she has taken a huge gamble with how she handled this document case. can you explain why? she seems to be betting on one thing, to be the jt's homegirl. >> that is the gamble. the colleagues had a really good report last week that show that to judges including the chief judge, asked her to not keep the case, that is remarkable, a, that they did it and b that she rebuffed them. and i think it really lands a lot of things, how she's been conducting herself, very few i would say, zero new judges would want to rebuff a chief judge of the way that she did, and i think it does take it clear, she is betting on another board and that would be djt. as you say. >> peter i know you don't get to the out here at aspen ideas but i did see your son and he's having a good time. >> yeah, theo! house republicans have faced competitive primaries for weeks and tonight one democrat just lost his seat. the latest from tonight's primaries, the 11th hour he just getting ready on a tuesday night in 11taspen, colorado. ao with the one and only sotyktu,n a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. oh, why leaffilter? it's well designed, efficient, i appreciate that. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good, guaranteed. what more could you ask for? call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. voices of people with cidp: cidp disrupts. cidp derails. let's be honest... all: cidp sucks! voices of people with cidp: but living with cidp doesn't have to. when you sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com, you'll find inspiration in real patient stories, helpful tips, reliable information, and more. cidp can be tough. but finding hope just got a little easier. sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com. all: be heard. be hopeful. be you. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. you know what's brilliant? boring. think about it. boring is the unsung catalyst for bold. what straps bold to a rocket and hurtles it into space? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring so you can be happily fulfilled... which is pretty un-boring if you think about it. san francisco's been through tough times. london breed led us through the pandemic, declaring an emergency before anyone else, saving thousands of lives. from growing up in the western addition housing projects to becoming mayor, london has never given up on the city that raised her. london is getting people off the streets and into care. london never gave up on me. i found a home, and my life is on the right track. london made it super easy for me to open my small business, by cutting city fees. and she's reinventing downtown to make our city vibrant again. she's building 82,000 new homes and helping first time homebuyers, just like us. and london's hiring hundreds of police officers, and arresting drug dealers. san francisco has been through difficult times, but our hard work is paying off. working together, we're building a better future for the city we all love. ad paid for by re-elect mayor london breed 2024. financial disclosures are available at sfethics.org. turn up the volume for this, tonight on a new warning about the stakes this november, 16 nobel prize-winning economist say that if former president donald j trump wins, quote, his plans will reignite inflation and cause lasting harms to the global economy. he pointed out the business community has not embraced trump in no way shape or form. in fact no single fortune 100 person has donated to trump's campaign. let's start with these economists, they say that trump's policies could cause an inflation bob, what do you think about that, steve? >> trump was talking about extending his tax cuts which means, tariffs are paid for, and it's all in all, a completely irresponsible economic policy that people have not yet focused on. hopefully this will get people paying attention. >> you interview business leaders who like to complain about inflation, they don't necessarily say president biden is business friendly, but when you've got 16 nobel prize winners saying trump's policies will be a disaster, how are the business trump enthusiast going to respond? >> i think the trump enthusiasts, they just took away. i think those who are a little more with the program, look at this and say, this is not a good thing. look, the hardest part about this is that to the extent that ceos are trying to figure out what's happening here, they can look at these numbers and say the inflation piece on its face would be terrible but they would also say what is going to happen in 2025 to taxes. and that is a tangible thing. >> joe biden isn't going to raise their taxes up to 38%. >> i'm not arguing, just in terms of understanding the psychology of the ceo today or this billionaire class we all talk about and whether they are going to vote for biden or vote for trumpet i think the most important is different, which is that they hate uncertainty. more than anything else, and the matter what, there's going to be uncertainty over taxes and all these things but the true uncertainty, they lived through this movie before of real uncertainty, the polarization of what happened inside the companies and the countries on the slack channels, with email, i think that in a different way permeates their brain in a way that we don't always discuss. >> uncertainty over the rule of law? >> yeah, look, i think many ceos, not all, some have strong views but i think a lot of ceos fall into this category, we have this phrase, double haters, they don't like either of them, so they are weighing trump, and they don't like the january 6th stuff, they get it, they understand that trump is a truly bad guy, but on the other hand, the economy did reasonably well, to them, anyway, they got their tax cut and then they look at the president who they view as a person of integrity but older, and they worry about the vice president, quite frankly and they worry about regulatory overreach. they've all got there grievances, the crypto crowd has a grievance against the sec . and that's what they are weighing at the moment. >> let's talk about the different business group, so this group that sort of sprung up, silicon valley, elon musk, in the hedge fund community, all of a sudden they were pro trump. but is that not a power story that they realize that trump is a transactional president and they bought themselves access. >> the access piece is important but i think they have, you know, elon musk has this, that woke mind virus idea, as the challenge, now i'm not buying into that . >> of course biden and his support of electric vehicles, this is interesting, i've always thought this was one of the great challenges for biden, which is, that president biden did not kiss the elon musk ring early on because he was kissing the union ring early on. and as a result, elon musk took personal offense to this, this is when they were inviting all the automakers except for tesla and telling the country that these were the automakers of the future, that actually created this very strange rift. all of these are personal, you might even say, petty issues but i think they almost metastasized in interesting ways and that's why we are seeing some of this crowd go that way. >> i think that. look, i also think, they believed, rightly or wrongly that trump will not do all the crazy stuff that he's talking about doing. >> why do they think that? >> they forget that january 6th happen? >> let's separate the economic stuff from the democratic stuff. >> you know -- >> they are separate issues. they think trump will have, there will be enough grown-ups in the room, they can talk some sense into them. but the democracy things should be disqualifying, and of discussion. it should be. >> we are here on tv talking about this, you are not going to see lots of ceos, talking about their support for biden. i think that's an important thing to think about. i think right now, ceos, who think they support biden, either i don't want to say they've been bullied, but have been bullied into silence, they're saying it's very possible that trump wins and if he wins, we don't want to be seen as being on the other side of him, and i think in terms of the dynamic which is going to play out in the public over the next several months, you will see stories, are ceos are supporting biden or trump, i don't think you will see them publicly championing biden. i think it's easy for people to publicly champion trump. >> you will also see -- i used to do business outreach and we would get a bunch of ceos to, for clinton, john kerry and so forth, those days are over. sitting ceos cannot take public sites. >> i want to talk about immigration because one would think that immigration would be a topic that ceos or the business roundtable or other business organizations #>> tim cook was asking about it. >> tim cook was, i have said to the business roundtable, isn't this something that the bart should talk more about it? given the labor shortage that we have, given that we've got these massive infrastructure projects and we are going to be manpower, should the business community, shouldn't they weigh in on this? >> but you are dealing with almost a third issue, the country is so polarized over immigration, absolute extremes, and oddly, my guess is the business community said, you will need to weigh in on this. >> even i think tim cook's interest is more focused on dreamers necessarily, then the larger issue. i don't want to put words in his mouth but i think the ceo community would very much love to talk about you know stapling a green card to a diploma in the u.s. but i don't know if they really want to talk about what's happening at the border. >> they've got a labor shortage, they have hiring to do, shouldn't they care about it? >> if you put aco on this show -- >> they are all dying to come on. >> and you basically said what do you think of the immigration policy, they would say it screwed up and it makes no sense, we give the visas to the wrong people, they will all say this privately. i just don't think they necessarily want to say it right in the middle of a presidential election. >> donald trump is trying to put this message out, especially after the meeting, so i'm sure that he hated the report, i'm guessing but he must have aided your reporting that people in the room said he was meandering and they weren't that excited about him. it doesn't really matter who these ceos are voting for but is the reason trump wants to convince us that the business community is backing him is to convince the american people, these guys are the business leaders, they know best. if anything biden sucks that the economy is going to fail under him. >> look, the apprentice, he has marketed himself like this, the whole bargaining apparatuses about him as this supposedly you know, successful business person, that is what they've been selling the whole time. >> then my last, last question. former president trump is laserbeam focused on can thing people how great he is in terms of the economy, president biden has led a very strong economic recovery, he's got lots of policies to brag about, why does this administration do such a poor job communicating it? >> i decided to give you the worst question last. >> look, i spent a lot of time talking to people about it. people do not want to believe, i've gone on television, i've gone on morning joe and i've shown the numbers, or jobs created per month under biden then trump. the economy growing at least as fast, go through the whole list, people don't believe it, 50% of the country thinks that we are in a recession. 50% thinks that the stock market has gone down, not up. there is something going on out there where people cannot explain it. >> the only explanation that i have, which i don't even think, maybe it's rational, look, inflation has come down remarkably but i do think that when you add up where people were three years ago and where they are now and the sticker shock and all of that, i think that is what, by the way, that's what trump is hanging his hat on. >> let's hear what policies that he offers in that debate. >> it's sticker shock, not reality. wages are slightly ahead of where they were. >> but we vote based on how we feel. thank you so much. i don't want to go to commercial. but when we come back, first, he left the democratic party to be an independent, now he's giving money to republicans. we get into it all with senator joe manchin when the 11th hour continues from aspen. from aspen to me, harlem is home. but home is also your body. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. ♪♪ with fastsigns, create factory grade visual solutions to perfect your process. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement™. one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food, no family dinners, no special treats, not enough energy to play. all around the world, hunger is affecting children's physical and mental health. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. kids are forced to drop out of school so they can help support their families. conflict, inflation and climate have ignited the worst famine in our lifetime, and we are fed up! fed up that hunger devours dreams. fed up, that hunger destroys joy. fed up with the fact that hunger eats childhood. help us feed the futures of children all over the world by visiting getfedupnow.org. for as little as $10 a month, you can join save the children as we support children and families in desperate need of our help. now is the time to get fed up and give back. when you join the cause, your $10 monthly donation can help communities in need of lifesaving treatments and nutrients, prevent children from dropping out of school. support our work with communities and governments to help children go from short term surviving to long term thriving. and now, thanks to special government grants, every dollar you give can multiply up to ten times the impact. that means more food, water, medicine and help for kids around the world. you'll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. having your childhood eaten away by hunger is unimaginable. get fed up. call us now or visit getfedupnow.org, today. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. west virginia senator joe manchin now has plans to carve out a new political career for himself. he spent 14 years in the senate and was key to helping pass some of joe biden's legislation including the bipartisan infrastructure law. last year senator manchin announced he would not run for reelection in less than one month ago he decided to officially leave the democratic party and register as an independent. he now wants to focus on promoting a centrist, bipartisan agenda to bring the country together according to manchin. today, he announced his political action committee will now not just donate to democrats who share his views but also republicans. earlier i sat down to speak with the senator and his daughter, heather, here at aspen ideas and here's a bit of what they had to say. >> you i'm going to start with the obvious question, senator, what made you decide to make this move, what credit you do as a democrat in office, that made you make this decision. >> if you are on one side you are supposed to hate the other. but if you're democrat you are supposed to hate republicans, i don't hate anyone, they are all my friends and i thought the best way to love both would be to be an independent and talked about. >> do you think that's how they took it? >> well let me say this, not having a brand and you are speaking to them, they are not looking at you through rose colored glasses like you are trying to pull something over, they know me well enough. there's a lot of things i didn't agree with and some of said what you be a republican, well there's a lot of things i don't agree with on the republican side but you get there and you got to pick a side in washington. i never subscribed to that, they said why are you a democrat and i said my grandfather was impressed with fdr back in the coal mining days, so out of loyalty i never thought anything. i have never looked at politics as far as a partisan issue. never have. >> did you feel like you could be a democrat representing west virginia or did you feel like the democratic party went too far to the left. >> yeah, went too far to the left. i always said, you are who you are i where you were raised. god bless everybody, but you still think about how you were raised, where you were raised and who raised you. if i can go home and explain it, i can't support it. and it moves so far to the left, there's a lot of things i could not vote for or support. >> heather, you called the silent majority, the sensible majority and i believe a lot of people here aren't the disaffected voter but they are part of the sensible majority who thinks i guess the system doesn't work but they wanted to. so let's get practical on what has to get done. >> yeah, as you said, we all recognize it's broken and how can we fix it. there's tangible steps to tape and i think there is hope and light at the end of the tunnel so after diving deep, it became very clear, the point that dad was making, there zero infrastructure in washington, d.c., for anybody that wants to be center-right or centerleft or an independent. there's no place to come and have a cup of coffee with senator manchin or senator romney, if you want to stay moderate, to have help writing op-ed, to have infrastructure, fundraising, that the parties offer, not just the parties, but i'm talking almost college campuses, for dinner, for all of your needs, so there's a huge vacuum white space, so that is needed to be filled, for sure, a center for the center. i think structurally, it's totally nonpartisan, but if we opened primaries and gave the ability to have ranked choice or immediate runoff, i think it is the most proven way to level the playing field of parties. it's not saying that your anti- party, you get one ballot for a primary, you vote for one, and the top four are the top five go to the general election and you rank the order of who you like. we know it moderates, that's only reason senator murkowski is in the senate, we know it allows more people the opportunity to get involved and it allows more responsible presentation. >> how did we become so poor lawrence? was it our politicians -- >> it's you all. >> [ bleep ] that's funny. >> you also be paying donald trump royalties. you have them on every minute all day long, seven days a week. >> hold on a minute. hold on. he's a former president of the united states, who just sat at a criminal trial and was convicted of 34 felonies. what do you think should be on the news? >> they are saying back in 2015 or 2016. the bottom line is, you all have the ability to sensationalize bad behavior, okay? it used to be if it bleeds it reads, and now it's if it's sensational, you put it on. >> i can't take it anymore, i turn on life below zero up in alaska just to get through the night. >> help us understand who that west virginia voter is because it's in your state where you see that anger, where you saw all of the support, you know those grievance voters, where did that come from, and where did your party miss the mark so much because again before politics, it's about respect and dignity? >> the west virginia democrats alike returning vietnam veteran. we have taken every order you have given us and we've done everything you asked and we never said no, we did the heavy lifting and now we are not good enough, clean enough, bright enough, smart enough, you just pushed us to the side but i will say this about joe biden, he took that to heart and i said mr. president, you cannot leave anybody behind. so we wrote some of these bills that we have, we have done that, where you get a boost if you go into an area where we are not using the resources anymore, whether it be coal or different things. they have to be able to sustain themselves. that's how we flipped so quick. it's never been done in our history of our country. >> are you voting for him in november? >> who? >> joe biden. >> i will be voting. i'm trying to bring my buddy back to the middle. i'm working hard. >> and so you will vote for him? >> i will pull him back to the middle. i love my to cut my country too much to vote for donald trump. and i know him real well but i just think, orderly transfer of power, the rule of law, the love we should have for a traditional system, it's still the best in the world and he tried to destroy those two, it's more than i can take. but with that, but with that, i think those of us who have known joe biden for along time would like to see the joe biden that we've known. >> thank you again to senator manchin and heather, when we return, it is primary night and a handful of states, all eyes are on one race in new york where a democratic incumbent just lost his seat. we are back when the 11th hour continues from continues from spectator in your own life with chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days aspen.mo in a s urvey, 91% of users wi e . so why wait? talk to your doctor. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. chronic migraine may still keep you from being there. why wait? talk to your doctor about botox®. and get in the picture. learn how abbvie can help you save. in our family there was a passion for glass making that's passed down through the generations. on ancestry i was able to actually put together our family tree. each person is a glass worker. we stood on some pretty broad shoulders to get to where we are today. chris counahan for leaffilter— the permanent gutter solution that protects your home in so many ways, it takes more than one chris to explain it. but together, i think we've got the job covered. like leaffilter's has your gutters covered. protecting you from getting up on this thing to clean out your gutters ever again. and you know how else leaffilter protects your home? with our lifetime transferable no clogs warranty. we'd be glad to come out for a free no-hassle inspection. to schedule your free inspection, call 833-leaffilter today or visit leaffilter.com ♪♪ ♪♪ citi's industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries... and help a partner like the world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need. together, citi and the world food programme empower families across the globe. ♪♪ if you're looking for a medicare supplement insurance plan that's smart now... i'm 65. and really smart later i'm 70-ish. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. which makes planning your financial future easier. so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. and set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ ok, someone just did laundry... no, i add downy light so the freshness really lasts. yeah, most scented stuff gives me a headache, but this is just right. and i don't like anything. but i like this. get a light scent that lasts with no heavy perfumes or dyes. ( ♪ ♪ ) there are several elections going on tonight and big news on what is the most expensive house primary in u.s. history. this was a closely watched democratic race in new york and nbc projecting george latimer defended incumbent congressman jamaal bowman. george latimer will likely win for the deeply 60 district. bowman is the first democratic house member to lose a primary this election cycle and the first member of the so-called squad of progressive lawmakers to be voted out. i want to bring the president and ceo of vote latino and msnbc contributor and veteran of the mitt romney and george w. bush presidential campaign and is with the lincoln project in his new book is out now. stuart, what is your reaction to the new york race? >> i think it is good news. i'm a very strong pro-israeli guy, i thought the positions he took were more consistent, i would've voted for him. i think it is good, it is good when incumbents lose, it shows turnover. i consider it positive. >> maria, what you think? >> what is very clear is there a clear ability to have debate among the democrats in the democratic primary and that shows it is a thriving democracy with that party so you don't see within the republican space, i do think one of the questions leaving that will be the amount of money poured in. this is the most expensive congressional district investment in a race we have ever seen. one of the things i think you will see the squad talk about a lot, is it time for campaign- finance reform? i think there will be a lot of concerns from the progressive left, is there going to be another attempt to take out cori bush, for example , in the squad, where there's a lot of money. if you asked me my druthers, i would rather have it spent on opponents of the congressional side then congressional race that was assuredly democratic. >> something better than campaigns in general but that is for a whole other topic. i know you both saw a bit of that conversation i had today with joe manchin. what you think about what he was saying about democrats, maria? >> i think he is, first of all, i have to say his earnest and speaking out loud, when you press him, is he going to vote for joe biden, it took him a minute. he was finally able to level with his own constituency and say that, at the and of the day, biden is pro-democracy. not just a democrat, he is pro- democracy and trunk, he himself, poses a threat to our institutions. my wish is that every single time someone decided to stop running for office as a republican or decide to become independent, they would sound the alarm of the moment we are living in as a country. not just a threat between one- party system and another, existential threat to democracy as we live when i found, if anything more endearing at that moment, his real sense of being a public servant and sounding the alarm for the american people. >> stuart, what did you think of what he had to say? >> i don't think you ought to be hesitant to say you're going to vote for joe biden. the democratic party will miss joe manchin. he is the only kind of democrat to get elected in west virginia, which trump won by 40 points. jim justice will be a very different kind of senator. senator manchin, say what you say, he voted for impeachment twice. i think you need to go out and sound the alarm about donald trump and earlier in your segment, we talked about disbelievers who are hesitant to say they are for joe biden. i think that is disturbing, it is about democracy, low bar to say he will vote for and support when you think about every thing done to defend democracy. i think you should call it out. >> maria, i want to get your thoughts before the debate coming up, earlier today, i spoke to maryland governor wes moore, what he wants to see from president biden, rather than just attacking donald trump , he wants to hear inspirational message. he says that what the american people need to hear most from the candidates is a reason, not just to not vote for the other guy but to vote for a candidate. what is your take? >> that is exactly right. one of the things joe biden has been able to demonstrate is that his presidency had not just one policy but several policies carving the way for the future. he needs to own that and remind the american people what happens when we double down on ourselves. what would a second term of a joke biden administration look like? we have, under his administration, not only been able to talk about lowering the cost of inhalers, insulin, striking out student loans but we are getting there on a better path. he needs to articulate succinctly, what is that bridge to the future, something that clinton did so well, not enough to litigate the past, hereupon is, what is your clear vision in the future, why get into the game right now? >> in 48 hours, we will see what they have to say. maria and stuart, great to see you. we are back with more of the 11th hour in just a few. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. thanks to skyrizi, i'm on my way with clearer skin. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms had a vaccine, or plan to. nothing on my skin means everything! ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. clem's not a morning person. or a...people person. but he is an "i can solve this in 4 different ways" person. you need clem. clem needs benefits. work with principal so we can help you with a plan that's right for him. voices of people with cidp: rcidp disrupts.. cidp derails. let's be honest... all: cidp sucks! voices of people with cidp: but living with cidp doesn't have to. when you sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com, you'll find inspiration in real patient stories, helpful tips, reliable information, and more. cidp can be tough. but finding hope just got a little easier. sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com. all: be heard. be hopeful. be you. you know what's brilliant? boring. think about it. boring is the unsung catalyst for bold. what straps bold to a rocket and hurtles it into space? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring so you can be happily fulfilled... which is pretty un-boring if you think about it. why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. shop our lowest prices of the season, with no interest until 2027. sleep number smart beds starting at $999. learn more at sleepnumber.com that does it for us in very dark and cold aspen, colorado. make sure to mark your calendars for saturday, september 7th. we will be in brooklyn and you can join us on msnbc live democracy 2024. very special live event, talking about the most pressing issues of our time and there will be a sitdown dinner. scan the qr code on your screen for tickets. it will be a good time. for now, we are going to sign off. i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the network of nbc news, and maybe some coyotes behind me, thank you for staying up late. i will see you again tomorrow. there have been a lot of