and some of america's billionaires once critical of trump are now flocking back. the question is why. and unicef spokesman recounts the horrendous incident he witnessed as he was delivering critical aid in gaza. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's do it. in europe, the generations fear of the far right appears to be slipping. that's the top line from this week you elections although the continent centrist coalition is set to retain power radical right parties without makeup the second-biggest block in the european parliament. in germany, a blow to u.s. ally chancellor olaf scholz after the anti-immigration and anti- muslim party alternative for germany beat his social democratic party and last week's boat. and that was after the party pompously candidate sparked a major scandal saying last month that members of the nazi ss were not necessarily criminal. and such a humiliating defeat to give president emmanuel macron centrist renaissance party that the french leader responded by calling for a snap election. a risky move that could inflict further losses. both personally and for the president's party. the news overseas immediately sparked headlines here at home with pundits and analysts speculating over what the far right victor could mean for our elections in november. they are rising the success could forecast a donald trump win in november. however if you ask the atlantic's and apple bound, there's a few problems with that prediction. according to her, trump isn't america's version of le pen. he's much worse while europe's right-wing is fueled by a similar kind of nationalist fervor, the success of their politicians is marked by at least their appearance to tap to the center. as apple bound points out, while goals may secretly be more radical, they are succeeding by hiding that radicalism from voters the same cannot be said for donald trump. quote, the former president is not tacking to the center and he is not trying to appear less confrontational. on the contrary, almost everyday he sounds more extreme, more unhinged and more dangerous and perhaps the most dangerous distinction the ex- president's attacks on democracy. a harvard political scientist and coauthor of how democracies die told the associated press that trump's antidemocratic rhetoric stands in contrast with european populists. quote, they are much less openly authoritarian than trump . none of these guys have rejected election results. in fact the real risk here is not that we could follow europe's lead, it's that they could follow hours after steve bennett was pushed out of the white house, the x trump adviser made it his mission to bring trumpism to europe, meeting with a slew of far right leaders and entangling himself in political parties across the continent. even plan to turn a former monastery in italy into a so- called gladiator school for populist leaders. the project was shuttered due to legal issues earlier this year but he told politico he plans to reopen the school adding that the reboot would be launched by the inauguration of a second trump presidency. with that kind of ambassador preaching the suppose that american values overseas, it's no surprise that views of our country pop as democracy are souring abroad four in 10 surveyed said that although u.s. democracy used to be a good example to follow, it no longer is. so, as apple bound warned, we aren't in danger of following european voters in extremist direction because we are already well past them. of trump wednesday november, america could radicalize europe , not the other way around. let's discuss this with a professor of history at new york university and the author of the strong men. mostly to the president and a columnist from the new york times. it's great to have both of you with us. your reaction to the european parliamentary election results is calling this a win for the far right. is that too simplistic in your mind? >> i mean, i'm the last person to underestimate the gravity of major countries like france and germany having such gains with the far right. and this is both the appeal of those politicians like murray le pen who was extremely smart and appointing as leader of the national rally party a 28-year- old, who could be the next prime minister if things go bad for macron with this snap election. so this is a vote for youth. the national rally party actually, it's history is that le pen's father founded it and he was a famous white washer of the holocaust . having this 28- year-old at the helm is very smart. so, we can't underestimate what could happen there. >> let's turn to the u.s. and what this means for us or vice versa, what it might mean for europe if trump wins. does trump's antidemocracy rhetoric set him apart from other far right leaders on the world stage at the moment? does it make it more dangerous that he out of all the populist, far right leaders around the world, he is the one that perhaps more than others rejects democratic norms, rejected the results of the 2020 election. refuses to acknowledge whether he would accept the results of the 2024 elections. >> right. i think that stephen lipinski is right and told me this before that they conduct rhetoric, the violent rhetoric, the talk about locking up his opponents, the talk about hardening -- pardoning the january 6, quote, unquote, warriors if you don't hear that language from le pen or afd and germany. it's much more violent and, frankly, much more for cystic then you hear from these parties that involved out of the actions of european fascism. what i also think but we see in the results of these you elections is something we see all over the world, which is just this incredible anti- incumbency move. this incredible frustration with the status quo. it's why the one place where the left is surging and seems likely to do very well is the uk we have had years and years and years of tory role or miss role. this is kind of what biden is up against. i think we look at biden's phone numbers and you can blame that on various decisions that he made. but i think you also have to keep in mind that pulse for incumbents are really bad everywhere, and in most places quite a bit worse than biden's. >> what is your take here? is donald trump markedly different than europe's far right politicians? do they overlap in some ways and are they seeking different things for their respective countries and control? >> there is a lot of overlap in terms of platform conspiracy theories about public health, great replacements theory. the host of the g7, she is so extreme about replacement theory that she believes is a plot to flood europe and italy with muslims and nonwhite immigrants and she calls it ethnic substitution, which evokes ethnic cleansing. all of that racism, anti- immigrant euro skepticism, anti- nato sometimes, not maloney but others, that is common. by the way, to the first point you are making about america being the lead. we already have this because paulson aro had his own january 8 insurrection. it didn't work and he is now banned from politics. the liaisons included steve bannon and jason miller, who are trump advisers. so we have already had this playbook exported by the u.s. to another country >> to the point, ruth, let me follow up because i mentioned that pole a few moments ago. declining faith in american democracy globally but does that number risk slumping even further come november and how big of a test is this election to america's standing? is there a way for america to regain a standing as a beacon for global democracy, even if her rejects trump. they rejected him in 2020 but he still on the scene and that number of competent and american democracy seems to still be declining, even with trump not an office. >> well, he did an enormous damage in his four years to american democracy abroad. he had the thuggish mike pompeo as secretary of state. he pursued self-dealing. trump businesses are international enterprise. and he just brought down the prestige and integrity of american democracy, and that has lasted. also, other countries see that this is a bipartisan country and a very powerful country and one of the two parties is an thrall to this cult leader and is behaving in ways that are nakedly autocratic. so that brings down our prestige in the world, as well. >> ruth, always a pleasure. to do for joining us this evening. michelle, stick around. we have more to discuss with you throughout the course of this hour. we do have breaking news out of michigan we want to bring to you at the moment. at least nine people have been shot at a splash park in the city of rochester hills, about a half hour north of detroit. moments ago police spoke to reporters on the scene and have confirmed that the shooter is not yet in custody but is contained about a half-mile from the scene. right now investigators say they believe the shooting was random. the gunman had no connection to the victims. they say this afternoon the shooter drove up to the waterpark and started shooting, emptying nearly 30 rounds before running off. again, as of now, at least nine people shot this saturday at a splash park in rochester hills, michigan. we will keep you updated as we get information throughout the course of the next hour. we will take a quick break and be right back. stay with us. wait, there's an elevator? 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x marks the spot. now you can add the new xfinity streamsaver™ that includes netflix, peacock, and apple tv+. that's xfinity streamsaver™ for just $15 a month. all your favorites. all in one place. only from xfinity. for more watching and less spending... x marks the spot. do it all on the network made for streaming, and bring on the good stuff. donald trump's trip to d.c. thursday did not just include a meeting with the republicans in congress, he pitched his economic vision to 80 the world's most powerful corporate leaders. notable ceos at the roundtable included tim cook of apple, jamie dimond of j.p. morgan, jane frazier of citigroup, brian monahan of bank of america. and we should note these ceos have not officially endorsed trump but these meetings come as simply a nurse who spent the last three years distancing themselves from trump and seemed to at least now be returning to him. this is what one attendee had to say about trump's former primary rival nikki haley just last year. >> very liberal democrat. i urge you to help nikki haley. get a choice on the republican side that might be better than trump. >> here is him two years later talking about trump and his policies. >> he's right about nato. kind of right about immigration. he grew the economy quite well. tax reform worked. he wasn't wrong about some of these critical issues and that's why they are voting for him. >> and then there is nelson peltz who came out against trump after the january 6 insurrection. >> i voted for him in this past election, november pick today, i'm sorry i did that. >> now he says he will vote for trump a second time over fears of president biden's, quote, mental condition. peltz hosted trump and elon musk at his florida home last month to bash biden's performance and there's david sachs, prominent elon musk alloy and like peltz, -- >> i think he has disqualified himself from being a candidate on a national level again. >> after trying and failing to prop up alternative gop candidates like ron desantis, sachs has gone all in on supporting trump. he raised $12 million for him at a recent silicon valley fundraiser. but your hedge fund manager bill ackman also joined the chorus of critics condemning trump after january 6. in the wake of the right he publicly called for trump to resign. but now he is signaling he is back on the trump train after initially backing rfk jr. and then nikki haley that is according to a source who spoke with cnbc the ex-president has a piano who called him the l word. ken griffin talking to bloomberg about how trump killed off a red wave in the 2022 middle -- midterms. >> it's time the country moves forward. i like to think the republican party is ready to move on from somebody who's been for this party a three-time loser. >> you guessed it. griffin is now praising the three-time loser as someone who will improve america's standing in the world. and last but not least, we have point bridge capital founder and gop mega donor emma howell lambert, who last summer was making the case for ron desantis . screaming he is a candidate that can win those swing states and i just don't simply think president trump can do it. >> and wants desantis campaign crashed and burned in spectacular fashion, lambert went back to trump saying, quote, i don't know that anyone really believed he was a threat to democracy. to be fair, not all the ultra wealthy are back in trump investor and tv personality mark cuban has frankly called trump out and recently referred to him as a snake oil salesperson while speaking in support of biden's policies. and linkedin cofounder reid hoffman has slammed business leaders for backing trump. he argued no rational ceo would want a capricious strongman in the white house. but billionaires like you been in hoffman outspoken and the support of biden are in the minority and we should be clear about that but it's obvious why many others are casting the values and memories aside for donald trump. cnbc reports on thursday did trump said he will seek tax cuts and the curtailing of regulations. this came after he told house republicans he was considering an alternative policy that would eliminate the income tax altogether according to attendees who spoke anonymously to cnbc. experts call it a sure way to hurt low and middle class americans come up but it is a sweet deal for the billionaire donor class who might just help donald trump get re-elected. we will be back to discuss this with my panel and more. stay with us. 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summer helping the ex- president close the gap on president biden's early fundraising lead joining me to discuss this is a political analyst and author of the book go back where you came from and other helpful recommendations on how to become american. with us is michelle. you got these billionaires flip- flopping on donald trump. it's clear that they don't care about the threat trump represents or poses to our democracy, as long as they get their tax cuts and bottom lines working for them. >> yeah. first of all it's good to be a billionaire if you can have trump, you have a man who would treat the oval office as an atm. it's all quid pro quo and is openly told billionaires, invested me and i will give you more tax cuts, in addition to the dangerous and reckless tax cuts our kids will have to pay for. and in addition i would deregulate industries because that's never gone wrong, especially during climate change, which of course donald trump does not believe in you think it's a hoax created by china but it's disturbing to see billionaires invest in a fascist, i want to be fascist, and literally give up our freedoms, our democracy because for them there bottom line is better in their interest than our democracy, freedom, rights and progress can i will say this historically, democracy is better for capitalism? all these capitalist employee and as i think a fascist will be better for them and the bottom line, you've got another think coming. the second thing is especially these minority billionaires who think trump will apparently help them and go against the book and dei, i give you the fascist in italy and the fascist in germany this is not a new story look back and see what happened to those billionaires when the fascist got in powerpoint eventually turned the back on them and through them under the bus >> i went to get your reaction to this reasoning from blackstone ceo steven schwartz when he recently endorsed trump- era schwartzman told axios that dramatic rise of anti-semitism was a crucial factor for him endorsing trump. and as someone who was followed this closely, it's hard to see how you could look at trump and think this guy, the same trumpet called in charlottesville find people, regularly accuses jewish people don't support israel as disloyal and playing on that anti-semitic trope. dined with a white supremacist, nick fuentes, the holocaust denier pick the person who presided over the tree of life shooting at the synagogue that took place almost four years ago, a little over four years ago. how do you make sense of that guy being the better president to combat anti-semitism than the one we have right now? >> i think it's a result of this really dangerous but also widespread conflation of anti- semitism and opposition to israel. so, donald trump, although he has intentions of netanyahu, to be more openhanded with the israeli right, far more willing, far less likely to criticize or try to restrain them in any way, even then joe biden, who is obviously been far too indulgent of the israeli right. i think there is this idea that has become extremely mainstream that the democratic party has indulged radical criticism of israel that can only be motivated by anti-semitism. the other thing i think we have to look at -- i wish joe biden went lean a little bit into some of these criticisms. the fact that billionaires have turned on him, in some ways, is an indication of his own, of the anti-monopoly actions that his administration has taken, and the fact that his administration has been uniquely prounion and prolabor. . the oligarchs have decided they don't like him, he could potentially wear that as a badge of honor. >> of course president biden, the first president to cross the picket line and stand with union workers who were protesting, as you said. this is a guy who has positioned himself as a staunchly prolabor and fighting on behalf of the workers of this country. i can understand why the billionaire class does not like him. and some of these billionaires have rushed to defendant trump i met his guilty verdict in the new york hush money trial. does this knee-jerk reaction show they think someone in their class like trump should be above the law? >> yes these are sociopaths who think accountability does not apply to them. they are the masters of the universe. they are the superhumans. the supermen above this. how dare we hold them accountable? how dare women have some rights? how do people of color have a chance? they are against will produce and against dei. they are against these college students, these multiracial, multicultural coalition that against the israeli war in gaza and went to crush them and apparently at one of these meetings with trump, trump promised to setback this movement 20 or 30 years? so in addition to giving tax cuts, in addition to giving them deregulation, he promises to go after their enemies who make them uncomfortable. that is the rest of us, workers demanding rights, workers demanding a fair wage for people of color, and women who will challenge them. so trump becomes their avatar. he will become their bully who will punch down and michelle makes a great point for democrats, to say i'm with the rest of the majority who want to attack the rich and with the nurses and the workers and the teachers. i'm not with the 1%. those are trump guys and the bad guys. i'm with the rest of you. lean into it hard and tax the rich. >> trump's meeting with the ceos may not have gone as well as he hoped. let me play for you interviewers who have not seen it yet how andrew ross sorkin from cnbc describe the meeting. >> i will say i was surprised. i spoke to a number of ceos who i would say walked into the meeting being trump supporter- -ish or thinking they might be leaning that direction who said that he was remarkably meandering and could not keep a straight thought. was all over the map and which is maybe not surprising that was interesting to me because these were people who, i think it might have been actually predisposed to him. >> i mean, has the billionaire class, these people, have they been living under a rock because that's what i took away from that. it's not that they felt he was meandering or lost his chain of thought or that he could not keep a straight thought, it's that have you not seen trump at a rally before? have you never heard him speak? he is meandering and can keep a straight thought. i think if you ever attempted to believe that billionaire earnings as a result of meritocracy, as a result of some very special intelligence, this should disabuse you. these people were presumably alive in 2016 and 2020. but do to motivated reasoning, due to their own economic interests, i think, have convinced themselves that that guy has changed and i want to point out something that the pundit matt stoler, the analyst matt stoler wrote just this weekend, which i had not noticed before but i think is an interesting observation. he pointed out that trump has mostly stopped attacking big corporations on the trail the way he did in 2016. and so, i think there is an emerging alliance of convenience and it behooves everyone involved to pretend not to notice all the ways, all the ways that trump is obviously -- a president. >> and he needs the money. don't go anywhere our worst of the week. that debaters addition is up next. that helps treat and preve, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. slowing my cancer from growing and living longer are two things i want from my metastatic breast cancer treatment. and with kisqali, i can have both. kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. so, i have the confidence to live my life. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. long live life and long live you. ask your doctor about kisqali today. it's time for our worst of the week. the bad debaters addition. first we have democratic conditional credit george latimer running against jamal bowman in new york. he is previously attacked bowman accusing him of taking money from hamas over his objection to the ongoing devastation in gaza. under this week's primary debate, he took things to a new low with this not-so-subtle racist stance and homophobic attack. >> your constituency is dearborn, michigan. your constituency is san francisco, california. it's not harrison. it's not tuckahoe. you're not even there to be part of the events of those communities. >> nevermind the fact that dearborn, home to the nation's single largest african american community is more than 600 miles away from bowman's district. you would think this kind of dog whistling would be condemned by democratic leaders but instead following that debate vladimir got a key endorsement from none other than hillary clinton. next we have the general six rider turned georgia gop congressional candidate emma chuck hand. he was convicted of a misdemeanor for illegally demonstrating inside the capital on january 6 but when it came to finally debating his primary opponents this past week, he pulled this bizarre start at the very beginning. make this race is very simple. the eighth district money or second district hearts that the choice is yours. it's the dollar versus the change. this is where i get back in my truck and head back to southwest georgia because i got two races to win. >> thank you. doug reardon, you're not staying? are you leaving? okay. >> my panel is back with me. who is your pick their? >> i'm going with hand. it's the kind of thing that he was on the stage to begin with. but more astonishing is the way he left it. >> what about you? >> gosh. you know. literally i would have to say hand because he literally did not debate. but with latimer, is a good reminder that islamophobia pays on the right and the left. one of the last unchecked reservoirs for all pickets. >> one more bonus for you. it's so epic it needs to stand alone in its own category. we have gop congressional candidate for colorado and sitting state congressman richard holtorf, a self described pro-life catholic the police everyone should choose life every time and who voted against abortion rights in the state legislature and here's the thing. he has praised the impact of his girlfriend papa's abortion, which he paid for, by the way here is him trying to justify this hypocrisy to a local reporter. >> why do you seek to deny the choice that you said was best -- let me finish. what you stick to deny two other women? >> i don't. i don't. >> you voted to restrict abortion access experiment i am a pro-life choice and i think you should try to choose pro- life every time there are exceptions and there are times when he abortion. abortion is a medical procedure? them is one of the exception is when you are the father? >> is not about me but don't personalize it and make it about me. >> you told the story on the house floor. >> that doesn't matter. that's a story. that's not that important. >> first of all, this is a worst of the week segment so let's put that on the side for a moment. we have to get props to that journalist, kyle clark, for doing the into the because that is a textbook example of the kind of journalism, the kind of questioning we need more of in this country against our officials who are just full of hypocrisy, full of double standards, brazenly lying to the american people. but when it comes to their own self interest, as we saw with that congressman or congressional candidate, he had no problem saying that it's okay for a woman to choose an abortion, when it's his girlfriend, but not for every other woman in this country. the women in this country do not have the same rights as the girlfriends of holtorf. >> you know, there is something that people say within the pro- choice community . sometimes they will say that everybody believes in exceptions. but i've never heard someone actually articulate that before. >> abortions for me and none for the. this is the republican way safe spaces for me and none for the taxability for me and not for the part i like the fact that he is honest and open about it. >> such an exemplification of the double standards of republicans not just on abortion issues. it's on the way they project on so many other issues. the fact that he brazenly is coming on tv and then telling, basically making the best case possible for choice saying it's a woman's choice. is a private matter. there should be exemptions to it, but based on the arguments that are commonly cited in society that it's a personal choice. but then he has no self- awareness that he will go back into political position and curb those rights for women. michelle? >> i mean, and he's not the only one. there is at least one republican in congress that it's been widely reported that he has paid for abortions and does vote with abortion legislation. in some ways is not even hypocrisy because i think that but a lot of republicans believe is that they should be able to make these choices, and particularly when it may imperil the career of ambitious men but they should also -- they basically believe they should be able to make these choices for themselves and for all the rest of us. >> what do you think, to what extent do you think that a clip like this or the debate around abortion is, in fact, going to be a determinative factor, november? we know that it obviously has had an impact ever since roe was overturned. we've seen that in one off races here and there. we have seen that on state constitutional referendum. but what do you think the overall impact will be come this november? will it be a mobilizing factor? >> i think it already has shown to be immobilizing back to my podcast co-host have been saying to democrats for two years ever since dobbs was issued. mobilize on this issue. the majority of people, especially older and generational women have shown in special elections that they will come out and vote on this issue. i'm talking about even some red states that they will vote for this issue and the fact that republicans are stuck in a corner. the fact you have the alabama supreme court and the arizona supreme court attacking ivf and they want to take us back to the 19th century and the fact they have gone all in on dobbs, they know they are stuck with their extremism. they can't do that anymore. this is where you unleash kamala harris, who is a woman. a black woman. a vice president. unleash kamala harris everyday until the rest of the elections mobilize on this issue and democrats could actually win. president biden could actually win on this issue. republicans are stuck in this clip proves it >> in terms of what democrats do with a clip like that? >> i think they have to play it over and over again and they also have to link it to the republican party at large, specifically to donald trump, who is known to be an amoral playboy, who is also the person more responsible than anyone else for ending the right to legal abortion in this country. although people who talk about politics for a living, it's so obvious to us that sometimes we forget that a lot of people in this country don't connect donald trump to the supreme court justices that ended roe v. wade. so it's the job of the democratic party to make the connection for them. >> it's always a pleasure thank you to both of you. great to see you both. next, unicef spokesperson witnessing the shocking shootings of two palestinian fishermen in gaza. his story is next. tomati like doors opening wherever i go... 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(♪♪) the israeli military is facing heightened scrutiny over its violent and deadly raid of a gaza refugee camp last weekend to rescue four hostages killing at least 274 palestinians. we are learning more details about how it unfolded. according to an investigation by nbc news which reports the hours long rate was apparently the end of a much longer operation post on the israeli military telegram channel show idf special forces known to disguise themselves to blend into the population of gaza had been operating in the area in the days leading up to last saturday surprise attack. he ultimately entered, disguised as displaced palestinians and aid workers in a humanitarian truck and attacked residents with intense ground and air attacks according to the united nations. when nbc news asked for confirmation, the israeli military declined to comment. analysis of missile fragments filmed by an nbc news crew as they were collected by residents showed they were pieces of hellfire air to surface missiles, weapons primarily manufactured by lockheed martin in the united states. footage and survivor accounts paint a horrifying aftermath of bodies strewn on the streets and walls covered in body parts scattered by the explosions. you and experts describe the rate is one of the most heinous acts than israel's assault on the palestinian people since the october 7 hamas attacks. meanwhile starvation is imminent in gaza. at least 20 children have died of malnutrition and dehydration thus far according to a new u.n. report out this week on the war crimes committed by israeli authorities and hamas since october 7 the u.n. found that 8000 children in gaza have been diagnosed with malnutrition. numbers that are expected to rise as half of gaza's population could face starvation and death by mid- july. earlier i spoke to james elder, unicef global spokesperson on the ground in rafah. >> said you have been back we've been checking in with you regularly but i want to start with what you have seen this time around because i saw that earlier this week you posted something that caught the world's attention. something that is very troubling about seeing two fishermen who were looking for food for their families shot dead at a beach. tell us about what you saw and witnessed. >> it was horrendous. the whole day was hermit us but to that specific incident, yes, it was a convoy that on wednesday taking life-saving supplies. medicine and nutritional supplies for 10,000 children. it's a 25-mile round-trip. lots of checkpoints but you do on the vetting before hand. this trip took us 13 hours we spent eight at checkpoints or nearby there. during this time, as we waited on the coastal road i spent quite a long time watching fishermen. these were just men out there with a single net trying to catch fish for the family. maybe they were university professors or accountants. i don't know. they were just out there fishing. there was commotion at the checkpoint. the israeli check point there was a tank and then it was automatic weapon fire the fishermen fled and two fishermen were shot. those with the world health organization we had a doctor and a paramedic , immediately call to those authorities to see if he could get permission to go to the beach to see if there was any sign of life come in to see if we could help these men in any way. that permission was denied. that permission was denied and then half an hour later the other fishermen, the friends and relatives, i don't know, decided they wanted to go there pick we gave them body bags they put those other fishermen in body bags. he brought them up and that's were i saw that one had been shot in the back and one, he still had fishing nets around his ankle, had been shot in the neck? >> to be clear. where these fishermen posing any threat whatsoever to any of the israelis that were in the vicinity based on what you and others witnessed? and were you able to document any of this, capture any videos or pictures of this incident? >> based on what we saw, no threat whatsoever. they were fishing. there was definitely proximity to a check point. the checkpoint is much higher there on flat land. they are at sea level and the checkpoint is much higher than that. what we could seat with our untrained military eye, no threat whatsoever. they were fishing. >> we know that you have had to wait up to eight hours at military checkpoints to try to get aid into northern gaza, only to be turned away and denied entry. what were the reasons that is really authorities gave you or what were the reasons that you were able to observe as to why this aide could not pass through to where it needed to get to? these supplies, as you know, are a matter of life and death. >> very much so. we were getting to the north were the nutritional crisis is the most serious mostly because of restrictions in getting aid there, and because of the utter devastation to livelihoods and agriculture that the reasons given were that it was a close truck. our forms said truck/van. the close truck was open. it was a full inspection given from what i understand from social media, i have no direct contact and rather not into a he said/she said. it was also said we were offered to transfer our supplies, medical and nutrition supplies to another truck. that was at no point ever conveyed to us. this is not a new occurrence. it's important. this is simply because i was on that and one of my roles is to try to bear witness to what was happening was to draw attention to what happened to these two fishermen, who are someone's son, father or husband picked the restrictions and denials of aid are not new. there have been scores and scores of those going eight months. on rock has the backbone on the gaza strip and is not been able to lead a mission to the north since january or february. it's very common for missions to be stopped and denied and be delayed and for aid to not get into the gaza strip. this was not a new occurrence. >> let me ask you, james, about a report that came out this week by our news organization. nbc news is reporting the israeli military has been coming under scrutiny recently for the military operation at the nusseirat refugee camp last weekend. the united nations said in a statement that the israeli military entered nusseirat disguised as displaced persons and aid workers in a humanitarian truck. you are a humanitarian worker. what is your reaction when you hear about these details. someone who was actually working to try to deliver aid to people in desperate need. >> look. there are allegations so i cannot comment to an allegation. i can comment to the impact of that operation. i was at the hospital, the major hospital, al aqsa hospital two or three days later. that's quite a long time to still walk across with a doctor , walking ever children with wounds of war and walking over children with immense burns and walking past children who still need major surgery but the hospital was utterly overflowing from that operation. there were 400 patients come as i solve records, that came in there. 400 civilians. even today when i went there, the first family i decided i would talk to the fast family i saw. they were in a corridor because seeing the systematic devastation of the health system -- these are opinions and not facts. we need to get away from the war of words and onto evidence 36 fully functioning hospitals in gaza eight months ago. now a handful that are partially functioning. hospitals are overflowing. the first family i saw was a little boy who was very seriously wounded. when he was asleep at 5:00 in the morning, about 10 days ago and his family home on the third floor the next thing he's in the rubble with his mom . we spoke with him and his family. then he went and found his mother also in the hospital only for her to explain that yes he is alive, her other two children were killed in the raid. this is not unique. it's heartbreaking and horrendous but i have heard these stories countless times now. >> james, with every story you tell, it's more heartbreaking and more grief for all of us who have to sit here and watch this continue dictated so much for joining us. i greatly appreciate you. i know it's dangerous to please be safe. thank you for making time for us at home. tomorrow night, when art meets activism. we will talk to grammy nominated hip-hop artist billy about his decision to drop an album inspired by the war in gaza. that and more starting at 7:00 eastern only on msnbc. until then, i'm ayman mohyeldin. have a good night. some of us go for the dramatic. how didn't i know wayfair had vanities in tile? 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