hardest thing. to believe it requires something bigger than ourselves. >> we have never had a significant anniversary of d- day where democracy and western democracy felt as under threat and as fraught as it does this year. both in europe and at home. >> what you make of donald trump's threats to jail his political opponents? >> i will talk you in about three years from now. >> you have to take donald trump at his word. i think there is nothing that will stop him from doing such things. >> the jerry and hunter biden's trial was just dismissed for the weekend after emotional testimony from hunter's daughter . >> will wait to see whether hunter biden will testify in his own defense on monday. >> will you accept the jury's outcome no matter what it is? >> yes. >> and have you ruled out a pardon for your son? >> yes. >> i just went through a rigged trial in new york. >> his first public campaign stop senses guilty of convictions. >> if we don't win this country is finished, i really believe that. i think it is finished. >> i simply refuse to believe that america's greatness is a thing of the past. it evening, once again, i am stephanie ruhle. we are now 151 days away from the election, and the contrast between the two presidential candidates could not be any clearer. this week president biden took action to close the border, and then traveled to france for the 80th anniversary of d-day where he stressed u.s. support for our allies. donald trump, on the other hand, rallied against his guilty verdict, the judicial system, and then he threatened to seek revenge with any possible person who has slighted him. let's bring in our nightcap and discuss all of this. my friend, steve leishman is here. and linwood stead, cocreator of the daily show. she is also the founder and chief creative officer of abortion access front. and pablo tori, and host of the masters of the game podcast and show. all right, when we look at this week you have president biden talking about freedom and the fight against tyranny, both 80 years ago and today, and then you have donald trump talking about how revenge is justified. talk to us about where these two campaigns are, and where they appear to be headed. >> tyranny of the past and tyranny of the president is basically what we are talking about. where are they heading? sometimes i honestly look at these two things and i think will the selection simply come down to will trump have more dissolution people that will show up or will biden have more dissolution people that will not show up? and that scares me because i feel like for those of us doing the work in industries every day, defending people's freedoms, if trump wins again, what we are facing is no dissent. and with no dissent we cannot challenge any of it. >> but if he wins again, there is no surprises about who donald trump is. in 2016 you could make the argument that people don't realize who he is. all of these people were no, no, you don't realize what you're in for. america knows exactly what they're in for. you say no. >> there seems to be a lot of delusion. you hear a lot about the trump arrow was great, the trump administration was great as if covid just did not happen. as if there is some reason that the last two years just don't count. >> i don't remember covid but i definitely remember infrastructure week. >> infrastructure week was every week. i feel like trump is the most selfish person in the world, and everything, down to how it revolves around me personally. every political issue comes back to me, myself. this reporter asked him, katie from alabama wants to know what is your relationship with god? and he said i do very well with the evangelicals. that is not the question you are asked. and biden, to me, seems very outward. he is thinking about others, how can i help other people. think about the key moment of his life, losing a major chunk of his family in one horrific moment, as a relatively young man. who learned empathy, and to think about others and the importance of family. and this other person, who every bad characteristic we don't want our children to have, he has. >> i think what you said, what is the question being asked, and what are we trying to answer as instructed with the biden campaign, i believe, should be trying to do. which is framing this beyond even needing to pay attention to the news day-to-day. and more a choice between extremism and not. i just wonder why we are not generally describing trump more as an extremist. let's not forget, about the issues. people on the ground doing good work. when it comes to what we are respecting out of this, do you want someone who feels like they are attacking every institution? do we need to recite the listening of felons and felonies? let's just talk about not being that. >> here is possibly why i think this is playing out. because, although they shouldn't be, president biden is focusing voters on democracy. and on freedom. and these are fundamentally important things, but somehow they get viewed as kind of lofty ideals, and trump goes straight to the gut and grievance. >> because people don't know what it is like to not have it. i lived in russia for six years. they didn't understand democracy. they didn't know what it was like to not be, sort of the possibility of randomly being arrested and otherwise having to appeal. but can i just go back? did all that stuff in the montage happened just this week? and there are 151 days, which means 21 weeks? i wonder if i have the stamina to make it to this, if this is just one weeks worth of stuff. i really think this is going to be a rather dramatic, caustic, and i think that biden is going to have to really bring home what is the absence of democracy, which is a very tough thing, whereas trump has only to sell, look, we can do all these things and everything can be great, and rule of law is not a significant thing that people think about it. >> trump is a great salesman for his diseased ideas. biden has not yet shown himself to be a great salesman of his ideas, of what he has done. and there is a very significant and real and honest critique of biden from the left. that he has not done enough on what is going on in gaza. and there are a lot of people who would be democrats otherwise, who will not support him because of that. >> i hear you. what is the conversation to have with that voter about what former president trump will do with the situation in gaza? was it not nikki haley a few weeks ago, when she went over there and said finish the job? >> you know, what liz said about the margins is important. don't think about the potential, the imaginary hypothetical voter. i don't think that person really exists. there are a couple, but not many. >> there are a lot. >> know, the election is going to be about can trump get people who can say is either trump or i stay home. and can biden get people who say it is either biden or i go home. the election is going to be won on those margins. and biden does have this significant issue, that a lot of people, there is something going around on tiktok, i don't know if using it. we can talk about tiktok later. but when they asked this man, gun to your head, would you vote for biden or trump ? and he said the gun would go off. and that has become this that has been shared by people who are like i will not go for any of them. >> this is my point about extremism versus not. biden should also be as popular as the field, broadly. do you want trump or anybody else? we are at a point where trump is not just specifically dystopian in the way we may remember or not, based on our experience during the pandemic. he is also just clearly against the rule of law as a concept. so i think the question of democracy is how do you make this a tangible, scarier thing, because currently i think talking about democracy as a concept is a little pie-in-the- sky. think about democracy dying in darkness, did not really work as a slogan for the washington post. >> but this week, with the remembrance of the day, it was not just the stark contrast between president biden and donald trump. it was also between donald trump and ronald reagan. ronald reagan gave one of the most important speeches of his presidency in normandy. he stood against russian aggression, he stood with his nato allies. so isn't there a question to ask of all republican voters, where has your party gone? because the current gop and what donald trump represents bears almost no resemblance to ronald reagan. it is why you saw joe biden looking almost like reagan and referencing him while he was in france this week. >> i am not going to go down that path, because i have somebody who does not have friends who are alive because of ronald reagan's action mandates. when i think about waxing back to the people who laid the foundations for this evolution, trump did not come to us in a vacuum. trump came to us because people lay foundations for hatred and bigotry and sexism. and i feel like i don't want to go back to the party that i could recognize of ronald reagan. but what i do want to say is people that we are leaving out in this conversation are the voters. i am constantly saying to people the election is not the end game. it is the starting game. you get the democracy you want and you get the democracy you participate in. and who do you want to fight? that is my whole thing. who do you want to fight? do you want to fight a madman or do you want to fight somebody who might listen to you, where you can get the needle moved? because these are the people. >> i don't think the election is going to be won by biden if he is making democracy the number one edition. all of our polling shows people are most concerned about inflation, they are most concerned about jobs, they are most concerned about the economy. democracy should be like the sprinkles you get with the ice cream cone, if the ice cream cone is the economy. >> without a functioning democracy you can throw your economy out the window. >> but the economy is always the number one issue. >> finish your thought. >> i was just going to say that if he does not win it on the record that he is running on, -- >> which is a strong one. >> which is a pretty strong one. >> and a vision of the future. i don't think he win saying i am the democracy guy and this guy isn't. >> we are talking two different languages as far as the folks who may vote for biden and the folks who may vote for trump. this is not about issues at all. this is about personality. this is about who you believe. and the people on the right, joy reed talks about earth one and earth two. people on the right live on earth two. and we can sit here and go nothing that you believe is factual. right? we can go on and on. january 6, climate change, the election, the trial. but they are affirmed in their miss belief constantly, and they think we don't know what is reality. >> this is why feel like the whole felonies thing should and hopefully does cut through to a silent majority of people who are like you know what? i am in earth one resident but i am just not that proud of it. for me, a bridge too far is when we have a convicted felon surrounded by felons being, again, in the white house. i just feel like i want to simplify it down to do you want the felony guy or anyone else? >> but donald trump wanted more than his base, wouldn't he be doing everything possible to court the nikki haley voter? he disrespected nikki haley in every possible way, yet still she endorsed him. if he actually wanted to win, wouldn't he say she is my running mate, let's go for the gold? but he hasn't. instead it is president biden this week who is putting together a coalition to try to go for those voters and risking losing progressive voters in the mix. >> i wonder when we say nikki haley voter, i don't know that they were still stacked about nikki haley. i think it was just i don't want trump. i don't think it was everything about nikki haley is just awesome. people weren't saying that. so i feel like him going for that voter after we saw the numbers after iowa, was it 28% of those people said if nikki haley is not the nominee i could possibly vote for biden? when trump does not go out and try to expand his base -- >> he never has. >> let me finish. why is even doing that? that should be the sign to everybody, he is not trying to expand past due. he is not looking at a world for you. >> met mix of the order of the show here, but when roe was first overturned we saw abortion rise up to the top of issues. since then we have seen it fall down. i know the democrats are making a big deal of the abortion issue. do you think it is something that motivates voters? because i don't think it's going to be democracy, and i wonder if it will be abortion as something that trumps the economy, for lack of a better term, and becomes a real motivating issue. >> i am the right person to ask. only because, you might not know this, i am on the ground all the time talking to people. and this is where democrats are actually making a mistake. i do think abortion pulls better than politicians. and be as ballot initiatives we are seeing in over a dozen states were initiated by the people. not by politicians, by the people. people who held their abortion stories to themselves for years, saw this at the time, and this is not a couple people. 200, 500, 900,000 validated signatures to get it on the ballot. the question is, will people vote for biden in the initiative? what we saw in kansas, the very first one is that people voted overwhelmingly for their abortion initiative and still voted for some of the people who created the laws in the first place. so, what we should carefully be looking at is these initiatives i think are going to greatly help down ballot. they are going to help senate races and places that will be surprising. congressional races. will people say i will vote for anybody but biden? that is the question somebody needs to answer. >> we can do that in the next poll. we can ask about that. >> please do. >> the president took pretty action on the immigration this week. republicans are going to say it is too little too late. just to be clear, republicans have done nothing on immigration, and thanks to donald trump, blocked or doing anything legislative. >> if this is how the republican party has shifted the overton window in their direction. we talked about the border and about immigration, the immigration is not a central issue in american life. it is not the source of crime, it is not changing the economy. republicans have made it to this central issue, it is not. >> and people believe it. whether or not it actually is an issue in daily life or not is somewhat irrelevant, because republicans have been successful in convincing the american people of that. >> they have made a stink about it when it is not as important as they wanted to be. >> i think this is the frustration for anybody who is not trump, that you are running an election, a campaign, and administration waste on i think a practical execution of hopefully reasonable and increasingly moderated policies, and donald trump is running on vibes. it is a vibes base campaign. and the question fundamentally when it comes to turnout is -- >> vibes is too polite a word. >> anger, resentment, ancient nightmares awakened in the bloodstream the people who feel like they're being threatened by non-threats. >> i have a different view. i want to see the person advising biden on the politics of immigration fired. i think he has been behind the curve on this. he has let the republicans take this to a place that should not go. >> from a narrative perspective, but not a policy perspective. what have they done on the policy front? >> from a narrative perspective, if he is doing what he is doing now, why could he not have done that months ago? >> fine. fine. you can argue with when he did it. but now he is doing it. now he is doing it. what have republicans done? >> nothing. they have objected to a deal that was apparently done, that was agreed to by republicans. but the second thing i want is a -- >> they want the end issue solved, they want to continue to bring it up as a problem. >> the second thing i wanted to say was there some issues where you want to take on the lack of facts and the misdirection head on. this issue of immigration, i think, should be one that should be approached with much more sympathy for the people who are afraid and scared, and i think rather than head-on with -- >> weight, which people that are scared? the immigrants have come here? >> the people in montana who are worried about people crossing the border in mexico. >> who would never make it to montana. >> we care with the people in montana and west virginia think about it? >> this is what is motivating them. and i think there is a way to address this in a way that is more understanding and less in- your-face. >> more understanding of what white people in montana think? >> here is why. because they vote. i don't think steve is saying -- >> we are entirely -- >> hold on a second. i don't think steve is saying the person in montana is right. he is saying they vote. at the very least you have to acknowledge who that person is, where they are, and speak to them. >> issue is that we have already coddled them immensely by wrapping them in this notion of the demonization, so many americans with think of immigration and think of somebody getting murdered by an immigrant. that is not the core of our relationship with immigrants in this country, and the right has made it that. >> yes, but the most important word you said right there is made. because they made it that. because they solidified this falsehood, you have to at least address it and try to start solving for it. >> can you understand how people are scared? >> but who is scared? white people? >> white people. >> we are continuing to be asked to be sensitive to the fears of white people that are not real fears. >> it does not matter if they are real fears. they vote. >> i think my question -- >> genuine human empathy is you are sensitive to anybody's fears. >> sure. and i think we are also trying to disabuse them of the lies in a way that damages them in terms of the sense of security and sense of self. but before we get back in, i just want to ask what does it take to coddle the abstract montana and who is afraid that someone in mexico is coming over to take their job? >> there is a community i know in wyoming, they had no people from south america. all of a sudden they had like 12 people. this was a huge change for them, and everybody, all of a sudden they had to teach esl. >> and that town in montana or wyoming had jobs for those people. >> they absolutely did, and those people added to their jobs and they were not people to do the jobs they are doing. all that is good stuff. i am just saying the change, the challenge makes people uncomfortable. i am wondering before we take them head-on if there is a way to talk to them. >> last point. >> this is bigger than immigration. because this is a republican pattern. create a fear that is not real, pass legislation that only harms other people, then the fear stopped, because it never existed, and i think they won. they have done it with abortion. they have done it with lgbtq, trans people. there are kids who are pooping in cat boxes and schools. no there isn't. if there were kids pooping in cat boxes in schools, high school kids would have put it on instagram. so to me it is a microcosm of the playbook, and how do we dismantle that playbook to stop having that fear, and stopping vbs around it? >> we need to go to commercial, but i don't actually think you and steve disagree, i don't. >> i am not prioritizing the feelings of white people, so we do disagree. >> i think that all steve is trying to say here is these people and their fears, he is not saying let's appeal to them. but if we simply ignore it, then we are sending this people into trumpet's arms. >> we can practically see the statue of liberty when we walk outside this building. we are supposed to be a nation that welcomes immigrants. i mean, none of us were born here, right? now we have this very hateful, xenophobic approach to a certain time of immigrant. and they notions that we should kowtow to these fears. >> i am not saying that you are kowtowing to anything. but if you did not speak to that person you are sending them into the arms of donald trump and going why on earth are these people voting for donald trump? because they are getting ignored. i am not saying they should be coddled, i am saying should we at least acknowledge them and get a basis of truth back to the center? >> this is part of what we are talking about when the new york times does what is going on the world? we ask trump voters. they don't care what they think. we don't have to be checking in with what they think. >> i also think it is the responsibility of white people to educate white people. it should not be placed upon bracken brown people and emigrants. >> i would like to know what it would take to achieve the persuasion that emigrants are not so scary. i would like a practical proposal before i decide to sort of center the feelings of people who are fed lies. >> what if you did not reject the fears? and i want to correct the record. i am not talking about coddling the fears of white people. i think there are plenty of black and brown people that are concerned about immigrants coming over the border and taking their jobs. >> no one is taking anyone's jobs, we have a labor shortage. >> that there could be a rampant coalition of people who believe that there isn't? >> i think you acknowledge that people have a right to be afraid and concerned and not dismiss those fears. >> besides the four of you, someone else is screaming at me and it is the producers. we have to go to a producer. there's five people yelling. when we return, the last four years have been great for the wealthiest americans. so i want to know why so many of the richest of the rich are opening their wallets, their hearts, their minds, and buying into his propaganda and pushing donald trump. i need some answers to this. later, phenom caitlin clark gets checked and starts a bigger conversation about women's basketball when our nightcap and the 11th hour continues. continues. plaque psoriasis. she thinks her flaky gray patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. allison! over here! otezla can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. ♪♪ [announcer] with clearer skin girls' day out is a good day out. live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. i bought the team! kevin...? 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>> it is quite ordinary. the most cynical answer, you say they are protecting their tax cuts. the corporate tax cuts are going to be on the table in 2025. if you end up supporting trump you are most likely to keep those corporate tax cuts and lower tax brackets, because, by the way, i don't think trump is going to address the deficit at all, either. the record shows that perhaps some of the fiscal spending had a part in the inflation, but it was more about supply shocks. the inability to get stuff into the country, the reduction in the ability to spend on services. so we have all this money to buy patio furniture and barbecues and stuff like that, all of a sudden that shut up and we have partners with some of the food distribution. and that has come off in a very big way. on the inflation rate, but not on the inflation level. by the way, don't understate it, because biden has plenty of wealthy supporters. but you're right to point out how extraordinary it is the sum of these folks, especially in tech land, are the ones out there saying i am going to vote for trump or support trump. and, for example, the david sachs in tweet on the economy is just to be amazed that a guy with that much money is so live with. >> i get that inflation is difficult. these people who are now supporting donald trump have had extraordinary last years. i mean, what was announced? he is worth $8 billion? he could have everything president biden has done for electric vehicles. a huge win for elon musk. yet they are railing against this disastrous economy when it has been a perfect one for them. >> i think first off, taxes, let's start with that and then get a realizing that for these guys in silicon valley, especially, shame feels like a market inefficiency. like wait, hold on. if i don't have to care about the judgments of people who are paying attention to the news, maybe i can do the thing that donald trump offers uniquely, in my memory, of american presidents, which is the ability to dictate actual policy . the ability to get favors. i feel like this is the other part of the trump administration that goes underrated because we are talking about the bed of nails that is every single scandal. he is for sale. i mean, go down the list of donors and what you get. if you are a tech billionaire ceo philosopher king, that is what these guys want to be. they know better. they may think trump is an idiot, and i think they do, but they also think they can puppeteer hemenway's, and they can help run the country. and that is something that joe biden does not offer them. >> the white house is for sale. and in some way, is this like re-creating putin's oligarchs but here? >> i am a studio like i can't believe we are here again! and a chance that he might win. and i have read the criminologist talk about, the reason why jail does not work as a deterrent, because a lot of people do a stint in prison and they come out and go oh, well, i can do that. so now i am going to go back to the street. that wasn't that bad. and for a lot of people they are like we survived trump. it wasn't that bad. covid does not count on his record, for some reason. and they are like we could do this again. and it doesn't make any sense. >> and i get a footnote to the oligarch story? a lot of those guys ended up exiled and dead, and i don't know that all the people who are supporting trump understand the final end result of autocracy. >> you are asking for people to have something beyond short- term. we are talking about hugely successful masters of the universe who believe that will never happen to me. you know that is the way they all think. >> i think that is right. i think they are not thinking it through and i think they are also are missing getting back to the first conversation we had, the essential connection between democracy and free markets. what makes free markets work is the rule of law, and if the rule of wall is something that is on the whim of the president you have a real president problem with your free markets. >> let's talk about these loud, influential voices who are suddenly backing former president trump. why they would be doing it. i actually understand, inflation has been really difficult. you want to buy a house, you want to rent an apartment, you want to get insurance, things are really difficult. but suddenly this group of people backing the former president, it does not even make sense from a policy perspective. why do you think it is happening? >> well, when you look at how many of them are field adjacent, this is not my wheelhouse, but i do see and have met and have been hit on by very, very rich and powerful men. and all those zeroes do not add inches, and somehow, i think they do. and if that stays in the show i am proud of it. >> i promise you it will. >> because honestly, i don't have an answer. >> is a family show until now. >> but honestly, what is the thing you are missing? what is the emotional thing you're missing? >> you are talking about the intellect of these individuals. and so much of it is about the performance of personality that trump offers, the ego. and if you have a massive ego for these masters of the universe, wall street, silicon valley, i completely understand why you rock with trump. that ego seems like that is my kind of guy, that's the guy want to be with. >> i am also just not convinced that they actually like him. >> they don't. they think he is a fool. >> i think they are unbothered by the performance that trump does, which is a key visceral distinction that i have with these people. but i also think that what they want is power. trump offers them power. >> these guys right now believe they can purchase a phone into the oval office if donald trump wins. and it was funny, somebody on tv just said to me the other day, yeah, but what if donald trump turns on them? he might, though. and joe biden definitively well not. so they will roll the dice. >> i think you make a mistake in this country, that because you made a lot of money here you must be smart about things over there. we do it all the time on cnbc, and it is something i disagree with. but we will have a billionaire and ask him what he thinks about healthcare. and in less he made his billions in healthcare, i am not really sure i care. >> it's a great point. >> and i also say -- >> it is interesting that it is not essential. part of me. >> no, but it is interesting as we talked that the pronoun hymn has been used a bunch because we have been talking a bunch about men, and even when you said because they make money here, they don't do it over there. when you think of somebody who is, like the woman who invented spanks. she is a jelly in their. people are not going to sara blakely like what you think is going on over there? >> i don't think anybody is asking these guys. these guys have realized they can become business celebrities. do you think somebody a year and a half ago said what would bill ackman think about anything other than investing? no when asked. >> but now he is posting tweets. >> you become a twitter personality. the adrenaline addiction is real. they are all addicted to dealmaking, and now they have become business celebrities. >> this is a part of capitalism. the people who succeeded the most capitalism must be the most intelligent people in the country. trump succeeded in capitalism. he did. he took a big chunk of money from his dad and made it. we think of him, he is so dumb. he is proof that you can be wealthy and dumb at the same time. >> is also not a successful business person. everyone is staying right here. when he returned, fans love her. but caitlin clark is getting a mixed welcome from the players in her first year of going pro. why one foul has people talking when the 11th hour and the nightcap continues. ." memory loss is, is not something that occurs overnight. i started noticing subtle lapses in memory. i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. it's helped my memory. it's helped my cognitive qualities. give it a try. i want it to help you just like it has helped me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. this is remington. ...he's a member of the family, for sure. we always fed them kibble— it just seemed like the thing to do. but ...he was getting picky we heard about the farmer's dog... and it was a complete transformation. his coat was so soft, he had amazing energy. he was a completely different dog. it's a no-brainer that (remi) should have the most nutritious and delicious food possible. i'm investing in my dog's health and happiness. with the price of just about everything inflating these days, you may wonder why mint is deflating the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. well, it's easy. we know a great price on a great product is better than one of those things. right? 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[tense music] one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. aleve. who do you take it for? ...and for fast topical pain relief,try alevex. basketball star caitlin clark continues to grab the spotlight as her wnba career kicks off. but it is a foul against her for nearly a week ago that is still in the headlines. pablo, she got body checked by another player. so why are people still talking about it? walk us through what happened and the through line of all these new threads. >> on some level it is a simple story. it was a hard foul, should have been called a flagrant, wasn't. had to be assessed as such retroactively. but the reason it has continued is because it fits into the larger story, which is less and less about caitlin clark and is a through line for today show, perhaps, and more about us. or about the voters, so to speak. because it is a perfect culture were story. a >> uninformed voters versus informed voters? >> and is about vibes. so i want to address the feelings because these are sincerely held. it is more than just the great white hope. it is more than just a minority group in this sport actually being a majority outside of it. the wnba famously is 60% black women. so you have this star who is bringing attention, record ratings, real business for the first time in the history of the sport. and simultaneous to that you have a lot of people who pre- existed in this sport, who built this sport, who are saying we have not felt the advantages of being the majority group in a business that now everybody cares about. and so, a lot of people have the point. my point here. caitlin clark is a great player. she deserves the conversation, the hype, the attention, and the money. and at the same time those are advantages that are not granted to others because there is a novelty, as well as the substance to it. so it is an endless culture war story, which everybody can get mad at each other for a very long time. >> i think i feel, also, the resentment of the women who are already there like oh, you think this college kid is going to come in and dominate us? and at the time it seemed you guys are being rude and resentful. and no, actually, it is very hard to move from college to the pros in any sport, even if you are maybe one of the best, the best college player ever. we are going to do this entirely differently. stronger, faster, more experienced. it is going to be hard for you. slow down, don't think you are just going to walk in and take over. >> i have nothing to say. remember in the last segment how i didn't think rich people should be talking about healthcare? i am sure the economics boy should not be talking about sports. >> such confusion here. suddenly the wnba has all these new fans, and they are watching a game, a rough game that is played year after year. but suddenly the first game they have ever seen, the player who they love, they are seeing get pushed around, i mean, there was a republican lawmakers who was complaining about this where you are going this is just how the game is played. >> would they feel that way if it was angel reese who got notched to the ground like that? >> she did get knocked to the ground like that and nobody cared. this is another start of the story, and sports are supposed to be fueled by hatred. by bad blood. by feuding. this is something that is great. part of the reasons why want to buy stock in the wnba is because people actually are invested in it emotionally. and it comes from having bad blood. the thing that is dystopian, which maybe you can appreciate on this level, too -- >> i love dystopian. >> yes. we are talking too much about the story and more about how everybody hates everybody else because they see themselves in it. and for me, it becomes a culture war story. and when i say it is an endless forever war of a culture war story i mean it is because, in sports, we are still arguing about whether lebron james or michael jordan is better. we have been doing that for decades upon decades. some of been reporting that it is jordan, but the point is this is not a thing that can be solved by play. it is a thing that is going to be about, again, how you feel. and being a minority group in a majority female black sport that outside of that sport affords you advantages that track with the money and the attention and the privilege, it is like it is fair to object to all of this and it is fair to also say you are making too much of it because isn't she just a basketball player? >> sports is all -- >> and i also say, i think it is also fair to say that caitlin clark knows the game that caitlin clark is in. caitlin clark is not saying anything . it is like when the whole taylor swift beyonce feud was happening and they were both like there is no feud. this happens in this sport. so i just feel like caitlin clark is not screaming , there is a whole lot of speaking, and what you said is real. >> the pond to talk or see point is important. race is a part of sports. we don't talk about it, but it is always there. not just what happens on the floor. the vast majority of people who cover sports are white and male, and generally they are covering, especially in basketball, covering a lot of black people. so in this situation you see the white girl who is supposed to be the new star, who is changing everything, and she gets thrown to the ground by somebody. the white pundits especially like oh my god, how could you do that to her? >> it is not just about race, it is a lot about the fact that these sports analysts are men. i have seen black sports analyst this week go on and on, shocked by this saying these girls out here, they are being made girls to this each other. and the same sports analysts watch football year after year, they watch rookies get the crap kicked out of them going and that is how the game is played. but when it comes to women doing it there like look at the is made girls up in here. and that is old. >> i fully agree with you. overwhelmingly it is not that the rest of the wnba is jealous and seething like this is a high school cafeteria over caitlin clark. but there are a couple of people who feel that way. if you were to tell me watch this clip of angel reese celebrating caitlin clark and falling to the ground, i can't convince you objectively that she is not taking some enjoyment. now, does that rise to the level of jealousy and mean girl stuff? i am not going to categorize it as such. but i believe in that he and bad blood can coexist. it is just one way over characterize it as this is a sport where there should not happen. all sports are fueled by this. >> this is my observation. i want to know if this is true. is less contact countenanced in the wnba than in the nba? >> it is even more physical. >> we have to take a commercial. >> it's more physical? >> the ladies know how to get it done. what i want to know is all this talk about the wnba, is it helping the game? that's what i want to know. we don't know yet. everyone is staying put. when we come back are nightcap returns with our mvps of the week. you do not want to miss it when the nightcap continues. chris counahan for leaffilter— the permanent gutter solution that protects your home in so many ways, it takes more than one chris to explain it. but together, i think we've got the job covered. like leaffilter's has your gutters covered. protecting you from getting up on this thing to clean out your gutters ever again. and you know how else leaffilter protects your home? 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>> one of my heroes, peppermint patty murray from washington state who took on antiabortion physician who spoke in front of the senate and actually lied about that iuds were actually on abortion, and patty murray called her out on it, a public service to everybody. an iud prevents implantation of a fertilized egg. you cannot have a presidency -- pregnancy unless implanted in the uterus. and somebody's doctor lied in front of the senate. and patty murray was like smacked down today. go, patty. >> i know they are yelling because you're going to run out of time, but we should just think about this for a second. that person who sat there and told that lie with a political agenda is somebody's doctor. >> yeah. >> who is your mvp? >> i want to go in a different direction. corey harris, who became viral out of driving to his zoom hearing about driving with a suspended license. >> walk astray, because people are not going into this game but everybody saw the video. >> he drove to his zoom hearing with a judge on his suspended license hearing. and everybody was like oh my god, what an idiot. and surely he made some bad decisions. and it came out that he actually has never had a driver's license. but the end result of all of this is that he ended up in jail for a nonviolent offense. he wasn't even intending to hurt anyone, and it is easy to look at an individual and say you should have behaved differently. more important to look at the systems and the institutions and say you should behave differently. why are we using jail as a corrective for something like this? a nonviolent offense? we are over incarcerating nonviolent offenders way too much in this country. and this is a prime example of somebody who should not be in jail. there are many other ways to make this situation right. >> cindy owens is the clerk for esmeralda county and nevada, and she is undergoing withering criticism and a recall petition. she is a republican trump supporter, and there were people in that county that believed that there was problems with the election because trump only won the county of seven or 800 people by 82%. and this wonderful story in the new york times about this clerk who is being criticized by her neighbors and all the people she has known for life is a reminder that democracy is not a mountain, it is not a building. it exists because of local officials, and the reason why the 2020 election was not overturned was because of these actions by these local officials. these people, i think, democrats, republicans, non- partisans are all heroes that make democracy still exist in this country and don't take it for granted. >> and i am on a bipartisan crusade of my own. >> good luck with that. >> red panda is somebody you may know, if you have seen a basketball game. she happens to be the greatest half-time performer of all time. red panda is the older chinese woman and immigrant to this country who gets on a unicycle elevated many feet in the air, balances bowls on her feet and kicked them onto her head repeatedly. in the crusade i launched after watching her perform at halftime of game one of the nba finals yesterday is simply this. the basketball hall of fame has never inducted a half-time performer. it should be red panda. i want to address america, the world on my various social media platforms, i have a change.org petition, this is a real thing. all of you guys at this table need to sign it. i am begging you. we need to demonstrate that this person, red panda is a part of history and should be remembered, to me, as such. >> right on. we are ready to sign it. all right, my mvp are the families from sandy hook elementary school. if you remember, talkshow host alex jones spread lie after lie of what happened in that elementary school in connecticut. the families of those children, those five and six-year-old children who were killed sued this man for defamation and they won nearly 1.5 alien dollars in damages. but all sorts of cynics out there, me included, thought they will never see the money. a guy like this is going to move his assets, put them under family members names, friends. it will never happen. on thursday, yesterday, alex jones filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy, recently liquidating all of his assets. why? for the families who face the most devastating loss and then had to hear the lies that he pushed. this was all made up, and these families have said the money is not the most important thing. the most important thing is that he stops doing this. that might not ever happen, but we are one step closer to these families having one ounce of justice, and i welcome it. thank you all for being here. this was a pleasure to have you all. >> have a great weekend. >> thank you, thank you, thank you. we are going to be right back. h . we're talking about cashbackin. not a game! we've been talking about practice for too long. -word. -no practice. we're talking about cashbackin. we're talking about cashbackin. i mean, we're not talking about a game! cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ you know, i spend a lot of time thinking about dirt. at three in the morning. any time of the day. what people don't know is that not all dirt is the same. you need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. look at this new organic soil from miracle-gro. everybody should have it. it worked great for us. this is as good as gold in any garden. if people only knew that it really is about the dirt. you're a dirt nerd. huge dirt nerd. i'm proud of it! 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