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>> i would like to keep that friendship. >> the massive ethics scandal unfolding at the supreme court as clarence thomas copps to the luxury chips he took with his billionaire buddy. tonight, the amendments to his financial disclosures, the reporting that led to it, and the ongoing issues with justice thomas. >> it really is good to be me, it really is. >> that is his former chief of staff gets arraigned on charges of trying to steal the election. trump takes his vengeance towards dr. phil. >> well, revenge does take time, i will say that. and sometimes revenge can be justified, but i have to be honest, sometimes it can't. plus, new data on just where americans are getting misinformed about immigration. and another huge day for the biden jobs market. >> 272,000, everybody, the estimate was 185,000. and, by the way, that blows even the top of the range from economists going on. >> all in starts right now. it evening from new york, i am chris hayes. we are currently in the midst of the biggest supreme court scandal of the modern era, possibly ever. today justice clarence thomas admitted he was caught specifically that he skirted the most basic, obvious ethics standards for any judge anywhere, which is to report gifts. it has annual financial disclosure filing, thomas finally fessed up to two luxury trips he was treated to by his right-wing billionaire benefactor harlan crow five years ago. one 2019 trip was to bali, indonesia. thomas and his wife flew on the private jet and went island hopping on his 162 foot super yacht. the other trip, also in 2019, also using crow's plane was to the secretive bohemian grove club in california. notably, thomas still did not disclose the private jet travel and only disclosed one night in the bali hotel, rather than the more extensive five-day yacht trip. so, why is thomas partially finally admitting to the strips now, half a decade after they took place? the answer is he got busted. it started with the dog and reporting of propublica, who first uncovered those trips more than a year ago. in addition to the lavish trips, propublica also reported that crow paid the private school tuition for thomas's grandnephew, who the justice raise like a son. that crow bought thomas's mother's house, where he allowed his mother to live rent free. propublica also uncovered an incident in 2000 were justice thomas made it known to influential conservatives he was dissatisfied with his salary, and might resign under democratic president bill clinton if things did not change. in response to that great reporting from propublica, other outlets hopped on the thomas gift to beat. which is how we learned that a different benefactor gave thomas a loan to buy a $267,000 luxury rv, and then, get this, subsequently forgave the loan which, yeah, do the math in your head a bit. effectively means the rv was a gift for thomas. even just looking at what has been disclosed, according to an analysis from earlier this week, thomas is still a person on the court who seems to benefit the most from outside largess. when you say, looking at that chart? let's see, where is thomas? at the bar, all the way on the left, towering over everyone else's gift. it was reported by republicans, democrats, conservatives, liberals, everything in between. that bar there, the tower looming over everything, that is justice clarence thomas. but then, when you factor in undisclosed gifts, not reported by other sources, that is even starker, bringing the total amount to more than $4 million, or roughly the total amount thomas has made in his actual salary that he is paid by the u.s. government during his decades on the court. it is an enormous scandal that one of the nine most powerful jurors in the country is raking in millions of dollars in gifts, many of whom go undisclosed, and less some reporter ferreted out. many of these gifts are from that man, his personal benefactor, harlan crow. not a disinterested party in the direction of the court, in fact, a right-wing titan with an incredibly invested ideological interest in the direction of the court. a man who is undoubtedly currying favor with thomas by whisking him away to the secretive clubs in california among many other previously undisclosed gifts. he is the guy's mom's landlord for free. here's the thing. we have actually seen a scandal like this rock the court before. it is not totally unprecedented. would supreme court justice abe fordyce. it was a long time ago, we might not remember. he was appointed to the court by old bj in 1965 and he did not last long. >> today and fordyce was the first supreme court justice in american history to resign under attack. he insisted he had done nothing wrong, and there was no public evidence he had violated any law. but the criticism of his private financial dealings was so intense he sent president nixon a letter of resignation, and the president accepted it in a curt reply of just one sentence, 16 words. he admitted to a deal with the foundation set up by lewis wilson, a stock manipulator who is now in jail. the deal was to pay $25,000 a year for life, then to pay it to his wife if he died. >> he was friends with that jailed stock manipulator, this was the family foundation. at $20,000 a year was about $150,000 in current dollar currency. so he was getting another salary from a rich friend. it was an enormous controversy at the time, as you can see from that a nightly news clip. fordyce was even on track to become chief justice on the supreme court before his career was derailed by a number of ethics scandals. most damning was when he agreed to the 20,000 legal retainer for life to provide unspecified counsel to financier lewis wilson. at the time, wilson was already under investigation for security fraud. he was ultimately convicted a year later and served nine months in prison. again, this was, correctly, a huge deal. you can't have a justice sitting on the supreme court, even though he did not violate any laws, as the report indicated, be dependent on the largess of some rich buddy. just as fordyce resigned in disgrace. in fact, the american bar association then introduced a new code of conduct for all judges, including new regulations on, wait for it, outside income. although it did not apply to the supreme court itself. but at the end of that scandal there was a public reckoning in response to a crisis of legitimacy at the court. and i don't think it is crazy to say we need another public reckoning like that right now. because the supreme court is contemplating some of the most important cases of our lifetime, including an eminent ruling on whether or not donald trump or any president has near- total impunity as president. and the american public cannot be expected to trust those decisions are legally sound if they cannot trust the court is acting without outside influence. a professor of constitutional law at georgetown university law center. michelle gord worked as an op- ed columnist writing the politics of the new york times. i just can't, michelle, get over that chart. it just tells such a story. there is a broader question about gifts, and there is something totally different, a difference in kind going on. >> right, it is so flagrant. and i think the thing you pointed out about him making it known that if his standard of living was not increased then he might leave his spot on the court and give democrats a chance to appoint someone in his place, i think is so significant. because it is not a direct quid pro quo, but it certainly has the flavor of one. and i have spoken on this show 1 billion times about minority role. part of the problem here is that there is such a crisis of accountability, there is a crisis of accountability in the court. three of those judges were appointed by this president who did not win the popular vote. and then the senate is almost wholly unable to hold them to account because of their own problem of minority role. you just see how we lose democracy in these cul-de-sacs. >> and we should know, when fordyce resigns, there is a move to impeach him, which he has to get out ahead of. and the chief justice calls them. professor, there are people, the argument, the best i can tell, on behalf of thomas here is that it was oversight or misinterpretation of the rules of disclosure, a. b, there is nothing illegal about having phenomenally rich friends who shower you with largess. in c, he believes what he believes, and this would have no influence on him. what do you make of that defense? >> well, a year before his confirmation hearing in 1990, the aba delegates convened in order to put together rules of professionalism and ethical conduct for judges. and the very first canon addresses matters such as this. which is that judges are not to engage in matters of impropriety, or even the perception of impropriety. this is a standard that law students learn about, this is a standard that lawyers must adhere to, this is a standard where the justices are not above the law, even though the supreme court has seen itself as being above the law. and clearly, justice thomas during his confirmation hearings and since that time has shown little regard for codes of ethics, either then or now. >> yeah, and this question about above the law gets back to the accountability question. you have uproar, political pressure, moves in congress. alito, for his part, is basically on the record of an interview saying congress does not have the constitutional authority to regulate the court. they can do whatever they want. and here the question is, well, the flagrant of this, and okay, i will go amid my financial. it almost feels like it is a taunt. >> it is certainly a taunt. yes, of course i'm not going to recuse myself. and the same thing with thomas. you have both the financial scandals, you also have the scandals of his wife's involvement in a coup attempt. i mean, we have become acculturated to such a level of miss doings by these people. and there is no longer a sense that it kind of matters if half the country believes that the court is legitimate. in fact, they almost seem to revel in that they can exercise this authority against people that they hold in contempt. >> yes, and it is interesting, professor, that the staunchest ideological allies of justice thomas, including some of the people in that really quite beautiful painting of him hanging out with harlan crow, just an incredible work of art, they have been rushing to his defense. yes, of course. of course you think this arrangement works. it works for you. >> well, i think outside the united states these would be matters of significant concern. it would look as if there is a branch of government that has been corrupted and that no longer serves the public. and that is not one where the justices are at an arms length differences from being influenced by powerful, potential benefactors. that is what we are seeing today, a court where many americans believe it is out of touch and one in which they cannot trust. >> there was talk about democrats subpoena, and the white house is correctly the republicans would filibuster it because of the numbers in the senate. do you think there should be more aggressive action by congress towards thomas? >> yes, although i take the white house's point seriously. i think there should be more aggressive action. but whether more aggressive action is possible in a system is broken and deadlocked as ours is, to me, the central question. it is kind of why this is not just a crisis of legitimacy and democracy, because there is very little way for people to, even if you have the majority of people, i don't know that the majority of people are outraged, but even if they are, there is very few avenues in which they can exercise sovereignty. >> can i ask you a personal question? have you ever in your career had a year where a gift from a rich friend equaled your other income? i am just asking people. >> you know, i had coffee with the governor recently and her aid went to pick up the check and i thought oh no, i cannot accept this. >> yes, that's exactly right. professor goodwin, you? >> no, no, of course. and this is absolutely absurd. it truly is, and i think michelle has made an excellent point, which is that americans have become adjusted to these kinds of irresponsible, unethical behaviors, and that cannot be tolerated. i mean, no other persons, none of the judges or lawyers could get away with this. this is really a problem that justice roberts, the chief justice, must attend to for the credibility of the court. it means he loses his credibility as well as other members of the court. >> it was the chief justice who called him up and told him he had to go. thank you both. still ahead, as his former chief of staff pleads not guilty in arizona, donald trump speaks to a tv psychologist about his plans for revenge. it is all coming up next. next. everyday, more dog people 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who attended to in the constitutional republic. in fact, just today in arizona some co-members of that plot had to appear for an arraignment. trump's white house chief of staff, mark meadows, and a campaign aide both pleaded not guilty to charges saying they subverted joe biden's win in arizona in 2020. joining me now is andrew weissmann, he now cohosts the podcast prosecuting donald trump. andrew, meadows is an interesting figure because he has been at the sort of center of so much of the coup plot. he gave over text and then stopped cooperating. he has been indicted in georgia. he now is indicted in arizona. he has kept a low profile at the surface, but he has a serious case against him in arizona. >> absolutely. so, he is alleged there, as well as in georgia, as being a ringleader of the so-called fake electors plot which was a scheme that people have now bled to, so it is not just alleged, it is proven as to various participants, to have people pose as the real electors when they were not. and doing that deliberately. so, it is a fundamental challenge to the rule of law, to our democracy, and here it is alleged to have been engaged in by the chief of staff of the president of the united states. so, you can't get more heinous than that, if proved. and, as you said, it is in keeping with what has now been proved as to the president of the united states in connection with his conduct, to do the exact same thing in the 2016 election, where our jury just found that that was proven beyond a reasonable doubt as to his boss. >> speaking of that case, the next step for the former president is to meet with a probation officer, who will sort of take his temperature, find out about his life experiences, see if he has any other cases open against him. judge merchan granted todd blanche permission to attend his presentence interview. i guess the probation interview is not mandatory, usually they do it. what do you see happening here? >> this is one where i am not sure if you are a defense lawyer here, you kind of don't want your client to talk, because that is brought, and on the other hand, if he doesn't talk, that is fraught because it is considered contemptuous and the judge can use that as an adverse inference in terms of what he would say. but, you know, it is hard to see that donald trump would come off terribly well. i suspect that most of the talking will be done by his lawyer, if he is at all good. but i do think that the way you started this program, this segment where you have donald trump talking about his revenge tour and he cannot be coaxed out of it, that is normally the kind of thing you might want to say after you are sentenced, not before. because judge merchan can consider all of that in sentencing him on july 11th. >> yeah, you said this, i was struck by this. he said the statements of retribution against bragg and other perceived enemies are facts the judge merchan can and should consider on july 11th when sentencing trump. what is the category of things the judge can and should consider in this circumstance? >> one of the things the judge can consider is remorse, acceptance of responsibility, and the reason it is correct to laugh is that this is sort of the poster child for lack of remorse. and there is a difference between someone who says you know what? i am appealing the conviction so i can't tell you that i did it, and someone who is brazenly saying not only did i not do it, but the people who are in charge of this, there should be retribution against them. yeah, the judge, the prosecutors, the jurors. that is the kind of thing that, to say that is going to rub the judge the wrong way is to put it mildly. that really goes to sort of a fundamental risk of recidivism, a lack of understanding about the rule of law, and it also fundamentally does not understand that facts matter. this is a jury that was assessing facts and witnesses, mostly witnesses who are aligned with donald trump, who said things that were incredibly damaging. and so, this isn't something where you can just say oh, i am going to wave a magic wand and there will be retribution against my enemies. you know what? the reason that hasn't happened is because there are no facts to support anything like that. >> andrew weissmann, as always, thank you. >> you are welcome. still ahead, another jobs report and another big win for the u.s. economy and the president. how the biden economy keeps breaking records, coming up. co. y febreze air mist, to leave every room smelling fresh and clean. with that done, it's time to get to work. ♪ la la la la la if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. my mental health was better. but uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia, started disrupting my day. td felt embarrassing. i 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outpacing the latest inflation data. not only that, folks age 25 to 54 is the highest it has been in more than two decades, and, of course, today's job numbers as you heard from our friends over on foxbusiness exceeded everybody's expectations. the economy under joe biden, in macroeconomic terms, is literally the best economy i've ever seen in my lifetime. why is it not seeming to register with voters? join me at the table talk about that, among other things, congresswoman maxwell frost, democrat from florida who serves on the 2025 campaign national advisory board. what is your take? >> the numbers don't lie. things are great. the president is really landing this, especially post-pandemic. i think the folks who are not feeling it, which is very valid, folks are thinking about the high prices of things. and that really doesn't have to do with the president as much of that has to do with corporate greed and these monopolies we have seen, and the president understands that. that is why he was doing some stuff on junk fees, that is why the ftc is one of the most aggressive we have seen. they are doing good, antitrust work. president trump believed that giving handouts to billionaires was the way to help working families, and president biden knows that that is not it. resources to working families is what is going to help us. >> one of things that i think is going to help us zoom in on the jobs, let's show the trump versus biden jobs, which is really remarkable. jobs created per year since 2017, trump versus biden, 2.1 million in the first year, loses 9.27 in 2020, of course, the pandemic. joe biden comes back, gains a huge number of jobs, 7.25. and after that, a very, very strong growth. you see that huge, huge difference between the two. but even if you just say okay, fine, take out the pandemic, take out 2020, take out 2020 one. that was the pandemic in the recovery. you still have the joe biden frenzy outpacing donald trump in job creation. on the point of cost, it seems to me that part of the issue is housing cost, which is our huge issue for false, is not being driven by the president policy, they are driven by the local policy and the fed. people feel that, maybe they think biden is responsible but it is not coming from him. >> exactly. this is part of the reason the president has been focusing a lot on junk fees, thinking how are we going to help renters, how are we going to help people buy and accumulate wealth? the fees for renters act which works on banning junk fees. the jumpy is something your landlord has to provide for you that they are charging extra for you. i just moved into a place recently. >> you are having a hard time recently. you are having a hard time finding a place to rent. >> credit scores, which my bill also works at. >> how are your credit scores? >> not good. during the campaign i was running up credit card debt, having a hard time paying it back because i could not make that money, because i was also running for congress. and this is an issue that so many americans face. the fact of the matter is during covid, during the trump policies, the marketplace and our power as consumers in the marketplace went down by a lot. so president biden is working at axing that wrong, but corporate greed is really what is driving us right now. >> one of the things we are seeing in your state particularly on high cost? i am just curious how much this is affecting folks in your district. insurance, homeowners insurance particularly in the state of florida. there is a bunch of different reasons for it, climate being part of it. what are you hearing from people in florida about that? do you hear folks talk about it? >> this is one of the top issues i talk about, actually just had a roundtable with folks. and a lot of people have a caricature of who this impact, but it impacts everyone under the sun. i had seniors citizens on a fixed income saying i think i'm going to have to move out of my house. they have paid off their mortgage, so they don't have variable costs anymore. they have property taxes and the insurance, so if that keeps going up it is pricing people out. it is also working families and also young people who are trying to build wealth, they cannot even do it right now in the state of four. and the governor is not doing anything about it. in fact, he had a special session, and many people, including myself, believe that the building has actually made it worse. for him it is not about corporate greed or we should not be regulating the reinsurance market, for him he says we are in the problem because of people who abuse the system. less than 1% of people. >> it's very interesting, basically the insurance industry down there says it is not really climate, it is not storms, it is fraudsters who are abusing us. and they call that special session, i have seen other experts say that is not going to get it done. >> it's not. we need regulation, we need to look at the actual problem. but when you elect someone like ron desantis who does the bidding of corporations and billionaires, of course he is not going to pass anything to regulate and actually help working families. this is a huge failure of republican leadership in the state of florida, and that is what is happening when you elect someone like ron desantis. >> you represent a district and a state that is very exposed to climate risk, obviously. the national weather service put out this morning basically saying the atlantic is the hottest it has ever been, we are looking at possibly projecting a record number of main storms coming over the summer and into the fall hurricane season. i am curious how much that news, i know i followed this stuff, in a place like florida in your district, is that setting in a people? are people looking towards the summer? >> it is setting in. i have folks who are conservatives reach out to me and said you know what? before a few years ago i didn't really care much about the climate change issue. but now it is impacting my day today, or it is impacting my business. the water surrounding florida is the temperature of a hot tub. hot water fuels these storms and makes them last longer and create more destruction. in fact, two years ago we had hurricane irma. i was out knocking doors a few months ago in a community called or lavista in central florida. a lot of these folks are still living in sheds behind their house because the flooding was so much that it completely ruined their house. still, and the insurance companies are denying a lot of their claims. saying it wasn't the wind, it was the flooding. this is the issue we have in the state afforded. we need real leadership from our state government, because this hurricane season, and hopefully everybody is wrong, but they are saying it is going to be one of the worst we've had. >> congressman maxwell frost, thank you very much. still to come, the dangerous disconnect fostered by right-wing media. how far right lies are 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and dozens of others that prompted an investigation by the u.s. army. >> that was how most americans learned that their own soldiers were torturing iraqi detainees in prison. those iraqis were guilty of no call crime other than being so- called military age males. >> it is reprehensible that anybody would be taking a picture of that situation. >> reprehensible that they would be taking a picture of the situation? what about the situation itself ? >> i don't know the facts behind what caused the bruising in the bleeding. >> we went into iraq to stop these things from happening, and here they are happening. >> whatever moral high ground the bush ministration had claim for its project in iraq, it evaporated after that. there were immediate calls for defense secretary donald rumsfeld to resign, which he did did not actually do until 2 1/2 years later when pro-war republicans were rebuked heavily in the elections. the scandal represented a reckoning for the country. it prompted a crisis of conscience at american leadership in values and force us to ask what are we really doing over there? i was reminded of all his images and questions this week as i read the new york times latest investigation into an army base in southern israel that has become synonymous with palestinians. this is where most captured gazans have been brought for investigation after they are first stripped virtually naked and blindfolded and herded into open-air trucks like cattle. the photos that have emerged from sde teiman show those detainees blindfolded, handcuffed, sitting in positions in enclosures with former detainees telling the times they were forced to sit in silence and harsh weather for 18 hours a day. if they spoke, slept, or peeked through the blindfolds they were beaten. one said he was beaten so badly from removing his blindfold that he vomited blood. many other detainees say the scabs and sores where they were forcefully detained, with the sickest prisoners being shackled to their beds. one israeli soldier told the times that their colleagues regularly posted of beating the detainees. being denied access to lawyers for up to 90 days, and whose whereabouts in the prison can be withheld from human rights groups and relatives, which critics say is a violation of international law. eight former detainees told the times they had been punched, kicked, beaten with batons and rifle butts, and a hand-held metal detector. seven said they had been forced to wear only a diaper while being interrogated. three said they had received electric shocks during their interrogation. included a nurse arrested in gaza city who says he was lifted by two soldiers and his rectum was penetrated by a metal stick in the ground leaving him with, quote, unbearable pain. another detainees cited in the u.n. report said that interrogators made me sit on something like a hot stick and it felt like fire, and also said that another detainee died after they put the electric stick of his . according to the times, roughly 4002 detainees at sde teiman, 35 have died. at least 12 soldiers have been dismissed from their roles in the site, some for excessive use of force. a doctor at the camp said he could not understand why israeli soldiers had captured many of the people he treated. one was paraplegic, another weighed roughly 300 pounds, and a third had breathed since childhood or a tube inserted in his neck. why they brought him, i don't know, the doctor said, adding they take everyone. to be clear here, this is not an accidental targeting of civilians and the fog of combat. this is a detention facility that the israelis control, that they run. the israeli military says that any abuse of detainees, whether during their detention or during interrogation violates the law and directives of the idf and as such is strictly prohibited. israel's domestic intelligence agency which conducts some of the interrogations at the base said in a brief statement that all of its interrogations were conducted in accordance with the law. and while israeli authorities have denied that there are systemic abuses in sde teiman, they did not point to any tangible benefit of essentially extralegal detention. it does not seem to me that it is defeating hamas or eradicating terror. this was 20 years ago. it is a crisis of conscience moment for israel and its allies, and it requires that we not look away. infused with ingredients like biotin & collagen. strengthens hair bonds and repairs as well as the leading luxury brand without the $60 price tag. for stronger, healthier hair. ♪♪ if you know, you know it's pantene. ♪♪ i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission 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because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. we're solving the meat problem with more meat. for all the constant talk about immigrant crime from donald trump and his right wing base, any time a serious researcher has actually attempted to look at the issue rigorously they found that immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than native born americans. it's a fact about the world. whatever your view are. we should be more immigrants, we should be fewer. as you ask people that get their news from fox or other conservative sources they get this objectively fact wrong. according to a poll, only 22% of all americans believe incorrectly that immigrants are more likely to commit crimes or be incarcerated. 53% of media consumers believe it. compared to 12% that watch msnbc or cnn. those are many many things that people are getting wrong of what's going on around the world depending on where they get their news. i've been thinking a lot about this topic. what's sort of your basic view of the way the information environment is structuring the news that americans have. >> i think we are getting into whether watching fox news or conservative media. >> the causal mechanism here, all things being equal i watch fox news and i think this. i just think it because i watch fox news. >> although it is evidence, showing that people who were actually paid not to watch fox news started to realize that fox news was shaping the perception of things which were uncorrect. >> that's a great study. >> reporter: fox does not cover everything. i watched how they had been covering the trump trial and hunter biden. they were talking about those two trials about equivalent. it's necessarily the case they had an influence. >> we also see this on basic factual claims like the 2020 election. here's another one. i don't know what the causal mechanism is. if we show donald trump won the 2020 election. that is a false belief. only 18% of americans do. but again you see to me there's participant of the story here is also the unique role that fox plays in the conservative information eco system that is just not the same as anything else. >> that's exactly right. it is a power house in the way that doesn't exist in the left or in the middle, right. it is the case that they are huge media outlets that moderates and democrats pay attention to. but there are a lot of them. it is diversified. >> very diversified. this is an imperical fact about this. it is just the case that your median viewer, has a lot of sources. reading a bunch of newspapers, reading a bunch of websites. for folks who consider themselves conservative that's just much less the case. >> that's exact little -- that's exactly right. they just go and say we trust these people on the right that doesn't exist. on the right, it's fox news and therefor it is fair to draw more of a connection. >> do you think that, i mean part of the thing you're talking about in the piece is just the connection between that and also the trial. right. in terms of this question is will the trial change viewers minds. there's some evidence in the new york times, they did a poll, they went back to the people who were undecided. they found that a small but statistically number of them had moved away from trump. it could have been a point, two points in the poll that could sway the election. what do you think how little things tend to move and the news media. >> very important. people who don't pay any attention to the news. those people are misinformed. there was a survey made for monkey. which is 1/3 of independents had not heard the verdict of the trump trial. >> wow. >> there are these two universes of media coverage but then there's this other universe where people don't pay attention to it at all. >> part of that is this dehabituation of news consumption. this is really something that we've seen again this is another place that shows up in the data. and you can't have the causal america mechanism. people who follow the news closely, the further you get how people follow news the more trump has a gap. i am not saying normally who's right or who's wrong about that. that's the way the information environment is working right now. it does seem to me that we're also in a place where like, the media itself is so delicate and vulnerable. >> from someone from the washington post. >> yes, exactly. the fundamental issue is people believe that there's a way to get accurate information to the public. we're increasingly finding that a we're dealing with people who don't believe that and that people don't want to actually finance the process by which the accurate information goes out to the public. and we simply don't know what is the solution. >> i think it's important to bring this up because obviously there's a long, a really long tradition american media. all different kinds of media and opinionated media, i love opinion media. i've worked in it. i love takes, i'm a take monger myself. i think there's a situation the way fox news. which they knew they were selling lies to their viewers. the network is being rejected because they're telling people that trump lost. and then, you know hannity reiterates respecting this audience whether we agree or not. telling them what they want to hear which is trump won the election. that's operating in a different hemisphere and again to the right. >> and why they weren't covering the january 6th committee because the audience didn't want to hear it. it's very much that catering to it. and it's very much driven by concern about the extent to which donald trump has captured their audience. there's a really good quote in which baker talks about how roger ales one of the first to realize this guy is competing for our audience. you have fox news stuck in the middle between the right and the trump world. and they captured the trump world. as a business practice we don't know what the counter weight is. >> yesterday news max during president biden's speech the 88th anniversary just reran donald trump's 75th anniversary speech. >> like sure. >> bill, thank you. that is all for the week. you know we're living on earth too when fox is not showing

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