Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline 20240702

Formally recognized a palestinian state. Deadline white house starts right now. Hi there, everyone. 22 witnesses, 21 days of court, 80 hours of Witness Testimony later, the firstever criminal trail of an expresident is coming to a close. The prosecution has one last chance to hammer home its case in close answer on tuesday, given that the defense put up just two witnesses, lasting four times longer than their entire presentation, only the manhattan d. A. Is wrestling with the about the Testimony Bombshell after bombshell over four weeks. Jurors listens intendly, as they testified about the confidential arrangement made with trump in 2015. Hope hick telling the about the infame owls Access Hollywood tape. Jurors also saw the handwritten notes that worked out the monthly reimbursements. Stormy daniels was questioned in detail about an rattled Sexual Encounter . Michael cohen it was, mr. Trumps former fixer turned foe Michael Cohen taken the stand. So, all the testimony and all of the evidence was intended to drive home the point that the entire conspiracy to conceal Hush Money Payments that were made to suppress evidence was done at the behest of and at the direction of donald trump. During his opening statement, trumps attorney todd launche asked court this question, quote, think for a moment what a frugal businessman, a man who pinches pennies would repay a 130,000 debt to the tune of 420,000. To the Question Prosecutor said heck yes, and they brought a wealth of circumstantial evidence and such documents to make their place from jeff mcconney, now showing the do you want on how they got to the 420,000 figure, but how they sought to conceal the hush money, also revealing that donald trump is a boss who kept a close eye on every one of his pennies. To trumps own words from his own books that reveal he was a produce selfdescribed micromanager and cheapskate, making it all the more plausible he had to have known about a plan to conceal payments made to Stormy Daniels. As for trumps team, they will be coming off an attempt to discredit mike acohen that seemed to go awry. Trump attorney Robert Costello was literally undone by his own words, specifically emails he wrote and sent that he aimed to pressure Michael Cohen into protecting donald trump. New york times notes this the defense had hoped to damage mr. Cohen, mr. Costellos choppy performance may be remembered to, the trial in its final stages is where we start with some of our favorite reports and friends. With you at the table. Yasmin vossoughian, plus Msnbc Legal Weissmann is here with us. Today is the first day to sort of exhale and process what was happening. I have to say every day what we had sort of prepared to read and present to our viewers based on what had happened before 4 00 in the east was not what we ended up covering, because something twisted, something turned in a way that no one expected it to. So interesting, i was going to say, i have never done a trial where something unexpected doesnt happen. You can prepare all you want, and something, some piece of evidence, something takes on a life of its own. The other thing, and i used to prepare witnesses this way when i have had witses like Michael Cohen. I would say, somebody is going to be presented, and this is what you need to know no matter it is, just think about what you are remember and just say it. It doesnt matter if its really bad. It doesnt matter if youre saying i stole money from the defendant. Whatever it is, just your lone start at that moment is the truth. I think frankly the only point where the defense actually scored any sort of surprising point was on what i think now is just a lot of theater. I took it as a test of how Michael Cohen was prepared and how he did on the stand. I thought he answered with that lone star in mind, when he saiding that what i remember. When the photo came out, it was important, because i kept on thinking about, had you did not know what he was talking about a phone call with the report with Keith Shiller that that was going to be a time that donald trump was actually going to be there. When for a he said that and donald trump wasnt in a speech, and it turns out, no, i think thats when it happened. To me, it was something i would argue as she re corroborative. That is how trials work. We do know that the jury saw the courtroom cleared out on multiple occasions for only one witness, and that was Robert Costello. That was such a huge mistake. I dont know for a fact, but i just it has to be that that was Donald Trumps decision with a tin ear as to at least how it played to me. Im not speaking of the jurors. It cross rates Michael Cohen. It shows that donald trump was the leader, at the head of this. It showed an Obstruction Conspiracy of Michael Cohen being kept from being heard. The defendant did not want you to hear from that man on the witness stand. Thats because he knew he had the goods. Michael cohen is what we thought would behave lie bob costello, and costello behaved in a way theres no way the jury did not react to that. It was the most dispassionate, lovely judge with incredible judicial temperament, juries in general like judges and here they have every reason to like this particular judge. Theres no way they did not think this was highly inappropriate. And this was the defendants case. Again, we dont know if the jury is consuming the evidence in a Narrative Sweep. No. It was certainly presented as such, and in the Narrative Sweep that the prosecution presented, it was a story about a conspiracy that is conceived of in a meeting in trump tower, and the principals are david pecker and donald trump. The person who is sort of a mid Level Staffer in that conspiracy is Michael Cohen. Is the story concludes dramatically in the crocks of costello, and the prosecution gets to land on new evidence of the effort to suppress the miss Level Staffer, who in every mob movie is the guy who flips because he has the books or steals the books or copies the books. And trumps role as the person who would make sure that everyone that Michael Cohen could sleep well, because he had a friend in a high place. I think back too susans direct of cohen, without knowing at the time that Robert Costello would be called as a defense witness. For all intents and purposes, he was a late add. He said, ive not yet spoken to todd launche. Hoffer asked Michael Cohen as to whether or not he told the truth to Robert Costello, she said, did they have sex . And he said, no, he didnt tell him the truth. In fact, he didnt trust him. Thats why he didnt tell him the truth. I remember talking about it on television at the time as to why Michael Cohen said he did not retain this individual, who was a good friend of Rudy Giuliani, who emailed him, sleep well tonight, im meeting with my client or my friend who is meeting with his client, meaning roy Rudy Giuliani and the president of the United States at the time, and what do you want me to commune indicate . For costello to act the way he did in that courthouse, going to andrews point, Really Corroborating Michael Cohens testimony, a lot of jurors walked away on that, what was it, monday . And instead of thinking about Michael Cohen and what may have come from that testimony, they likely walked away thinking about Robert Costello and the way he acted toward the judge. You and i saw it, this jury their energy feeds off the judge. If juan merchan is not into one of the witnesses or feeling theyre being disrespectful or not answers succinctly, he holds them to ask. I imagine they were feeding off the same energy, rolling his eyes at the judge, staring him down. To the degree, harry litman, theyll by asked to make relative judgments, yeah, there was a one question on one day about one call that made me wonder if Michael Cohen was telling the truth, but, you know, the defenses only person that came up and spoke for the defendants innocence, if you will, that was objective, its not even clear to me that it was. Hes much worse than anything they want about Michael Cohen on cross. I mean, how much do juries take into consideration the rely activity in terms of the credibility over the other . I think its the key question, and the short answer is quite a bit as you say, we trooped up every court day. Its not how the jury experienced it. They experienced it more as a Narrative Sweep. Its the way jurors are supposed to experience. They make overall judgments, who is telling the truth, and who isnt. I think in part because he was farley unperturbed, it wasnt a seismic moment for them when cohen was a little bit knocked off his feet, whereas costello, thats like the principal coming into the classroom in second grade. That is really memorable. They noticed it, and im sure they talked about it a lot in the back. The important point is that It Corroborates is general story, and i think, you know, 12 people, you any never, but my experience, i think andrew would substantiate this, jurors make general judgments about who is being straight and who isnt. Not just cohen, but Stormy Daniels and pecker have warts as witnesses, but you can tell they have gave a story that coheres with one ant, and i think thats the general impression on tuesday when they try to tie it together, and not the isolated dramatic points where hes knocked back a little bit. How does the prosecution close . I think The Big Picture for the prosecution is twofold. This is true for my trial. The prosecution needs to make sure the jury is going to consider all of the proof together. I think that say may like, andrew, of course, but the defense is constantly saying this piece doesnt prove the case, this does. But thats now hot a trial works. I always give this example when im summing up, the Police Arrive in an apartment. The defendant is there, theres a dead body on the floor, the defendant has a gun and theres a bullet in the dead body, and the person says, i did it, i did it, and the defense says theres nothing wrong with finding a dead body in your house, theres nong wrog with owning a gun, theres nothing wrong with saying, i did it. You want them to consider just the massive amounts of evidence when you put Together Pecke And Mcconnie and hicks, and the admissions you can talk about physical pieces of evidence, the handwritten notes, the telephone records. You want to say look at this entire picture. The idea that donald trump the Cheapskate Micromanager that is conceded by todd launche, there would be zero reason for him not to know and every reason for him to know. You can put that all together, and then turn to Michael Cohen. You can make an incredibly strong case and say, you dont even need that, and then talk about the way from the inside what was happening. Do you bring in costello and then absolutely. I would be using them in all sorts of ways, like stressing this is their case and this supports what we said. I would use it to completely corroborate Michael Cohen. He is an exit to you dont trust him . You saw him hes so into this convicted felon didnt trust him. He said, i thought he would go right back to donald trump. Its in black and white, but you use it to say, lets just talk about obstruction in this case. Lets talk about what was going on with what happens in these cases, and who is doing it, and who has put this person forward for you. They didnt have to do anything. They dont have any burden, but they chose to put this person on as their defense. You mentioned in your open about the emails, and two stand out to me, in which she said and im paraphrasing you said at one point Michael Cohen was playing you, did you not, mr. Costello . He says, thats not exactly what i said. Bring up the email. You said at one point i wanted Michael Cohen as a client, did you not . No, no, maam, i did not. Bring up the email. In front of his face, and used his own words against him saying this email speaks for itself, does it not, sir, which is what he said at the beginning of his testimony, which i thought was an incredible moment for the prosecution. And like, in girth and vintage, hes sort of an avatar for trump. We dont know if the jurors will see it that way. I want to ask about someone else. Hope hicks i think in some sways, maybe it was through the tears that are disorienting, but delivered the kill shot to donald trump. Would Michael Cohen have paid the money out of his own heart . No, never, said hope hicks. Was donald trump in charges of all messaging and communications for his own campaign in 2016 . Yes, because he was the best at it, the best. Then the most devastating piece of testimony she offered to the jury was that donald trump looked at her and sighed, and said, thank god this didnt come out in 2016. The date he made those comments was 2018. Do you think her testimony makes a Return Appearance in the closing arguments, harry . Completely. As you said, its singular. Everybody seems to potential have an ax to grind, but her testimony she basically said donald trump lied when he told me cohen did this out of goodness of his heart, came in a painful way, i think provoked the tears. Its as credible as anything gets even though brief. I want to amplify what andrew said. This is not a tying up of loose ends. This is a mini series. Eel see 340 to 50 exhibits, including things that a trial just glossed by a jury. Theyll be up on the jean, transcript quotes, emails and its going to be intentionally sort of visual and arresting. This is the height of the trial lawyers art. In many way, evidence comes in in stilted and artificial ways for many reasons. This is their one chance. Theyve been thinking about it well before the trial started, of having a seminar where they drive it home. Thats for the prosecution. The big challenge for the defense, weve been talking about this all these weeks, what is their narrative. What do they do other than take pot shots. They will ask them and the entire country not to believe them. But he never took the stand. At this point, im not sure what they have to work with. For all of your contributions over the last four weeks, thank you to all of you. Well be calling on you next week. Its not over. It aint over yet. [ laughter ] some of the most extreme plans to restrict Womens Health care are moving into the mainstream. Donald trump has opened the door to replacing more controls on Birth Control. Louisiana has moved another step closer to criminalizing Abortion Health care. Plus the classified documents case, yes, that one, how a rightwing campaign has taken hold, claiming wild and outlandish and frankly dangerous lies about the fbi. Well bring you that story as the judge in that case leaves the trial indefinitely postponed a year after the indictments. And later, jim comey will be here live on set, and well have that when deadline white house continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Use continuek break. Dont go anywhere. I splurged a little because Liberty Mutual customized my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. Thats great. I know, right . Ive been telling everyone. Baby liberty. Did you hear that . Ty just said her first word. Can you say mama . Baby liberty. Can you say auntie . Baby liberty. How many people did you tell . Only pay for what you need. Jingle liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Baby liberty. A lot of new dry eye patients in my office tell me about their frequent dry eyes, which may point to dry eye disease. 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Well, trump attempted today to walk back even that unclear muddle of those as well as leadership of the Current Republican Party are either already doing it or made it abundantly clear that all of the other things that weve been warned about. Its a position very much supported by a very vocal and enthusiastic House Speaker in mike johnson. He spent his career and republicans blocked a Bill Enshrining A right to contraception. When trumps handpicked justices helped to overturn the protectionses of roe, they laid the groundwork in their opinions, but dont worry, trump tweeted that he was against Birth Control bans, if he even saw it. Joining our coverage, mini tamaraju. What is the most point people about this interview for you . You know, you pointed out its not clear that donald trump himself understands the question or the answer. But the party has been antiBirth Control. Well talk about this on the show. Hes affiliated with arounder network of extremists that are the architects of these attacks. We have no doubt that, if he becomes president again, he will continue down his road we have the proof, which is overturning of roe. We have to keep reminding folks that he overtun, he wants to punish patients and providers. That naturally leads down the road to contraception. Thats really important. What is the most important political better tiff, making sure that voters know what republicans stand for, or is this moving the issue, is it making clear to people how essentially this is to functioning as women, families, americans. You know, Birth Control is very popular, right . Over 90 of americans have a positive experience and 67 of republicans. Including conservatives. Its much like the idf story, This Idealogical Bent On Power and control over womens bodies, it accidents and always has to Birth Control. Thats why weve seen fights like title 10, the Family Planning plan, thats why youve sees Family Planning programs duty and slashed. This is the republican report, Chuck Schumer just said today hes going to call for a vote, as we as the Tammy Decreaseworth plans the first of june, so republicans have a chance to show where they stand. What do you make of the alitos flying that flag . I ask you this, because you always apply this to a larger fight of a healthy democracy. Theres no other example than women are equal partners, and in an ailing or dying democracy, women are suppressed. What do you make, known one of the nine human beings actually wrote the pin on dobbs, who is rumored or reported by New York Times of potential leaking the decision, lives in a house where the flag of many insurrectionists is flown. Its absolutely outrageous. Weve joan on calls for thomas impeachment. Were seriously looking at alito. He has to move we were two cases for Abortion Care in front of the court right now. At the fact in a samuel alito is part of this court and being weighing in, potentially even leading those conversations, is deeply disturbing. Were asking the judiciary to do more. We very much believe in them, but we really need them to call the Supreme Court, and Justice Alito and thomas to congress and defend themselves. It is not acceptable. Its incredibly dangerous, russ, and voters understand that this court is basically illegitimate, and do not want to see any more rights taken away by them who are so deeply compromised ethically. If i was Justice Roberts advising him, i would say follow dick durbins lead or Chuck Schumers lead and make sure the folk believes the court is a legitimate. I think farther and faster tan any institution, including congress and the media, they have dropped. Weve going to ask you to stick around. We have much more on extremist policies and politicians. The state of louisiana is trying to punish women who seek medically induced Abortion Bills to try to criminalize those medicines. That vote is expected to happen today. Thats next. At vote is expected today. Thats next. vo red hot deal days are here. Only until may 29th. Get a bundle of your choice on us. So youll get a free phone and a smartwatch and a tablet. Yep, all 3 on us only at verizon. Organic soil from miraclegro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. Good soil, and you get good results. Look at that the broccoli was fantastic. That broccoli i think some of them were six, seven pounds. When theyre dehydrated, pedialyte is great for wait. Umm. Isnt that for the kids . Isnt this for the kids . Yup. Good point. Well, when youre feeling super hot or super not, its pedialyte. The 1 dr. Recommended brand for hydration. Tech need to get your windshield fixed . Safelite makes it easy. You can schedule in just a few clicks. And well come to you with a replacement you can trust. Vo schedule Free Mobile Service now at safelite. Com. Safelite repair, safelite replace. The stakes are really high. We had one of the highest Maternal Mortality rights. If you take away this drug, it makes it hard for doctors to hand. How did we get there . Were in louisiana. That was representative freeman by the effort to restrict Prescription Drugs in the same schedule of drugs as heroin and cocaine. The bill passed the state house yesterday, which is controlled by a republican super majority. The legislation is being taken up by the state senate there. If it passes, medication without a prescription will be pun shall be for up to five years in prison. Joining us it publisher of the bulwark. Mini is still with us. Sarah, its so striking in terms of understanding why trump would correct an answer that was so vague. The campaign was nervous enough that it issued a clarification almost immediately and said, no, no, no, trump is not against contraception. Youve also got trump taken multiple positions, leaked several position, and also layered insinuation, and all of the defeats of Abortion Bans in deepred states like kansas. Republicans seem to be playing with fire crackers. What are they doing . We do focus groups all the time. Imtalk to trump voting women a lot about abortion. I was recently in arizona, this is the state where they recently repeal their abortion law which put into place an 1870 law that restricted abortion, even in the cases of rape,incest, life of the mother. These women were totally freaked out by what was happening when you talk about abortion, its how sbenlly personal this gets. Three of them had had abortions themselves. One of them started talking about it. Another woman, too, and a fourth woman talk about having a Catastrophic Health situation, she was desperately afraid for her life. So, that right now is the reason that donald trump and republicans are struggling so much on this issue, because they feel good when they get to sort of, you know, talk about the economy or immigration. They feel like theyre on offense will, but the second this issue comes up, it becomes a catastrophe with republicans, especially with the group they are most vulnerable with, a lot of the college educated, suburban women. If the salienc is high going to the election one of his super powers he reads as a cultural moderate or social moderate. They dont think hes a Mike Pence Bible believing christian. A lot of voters are, like, maybe he paid for an abortion or certainly not opposed to it. That tends to work in his favor a bit here, which is why you just cannot count on abortion hurting donald trump, you have got to attack it to him, affirmatively make the case he appealed roe, you cannot trust him going forward. He will never put womens need above his own, so you have to hang that around him if you want to make it really, really stick to him. Minnie, you were say the best is to use trumps own words. We have tested and researched this. The number one persuasive message is trump bragging about overturning roe, and punishing doctors and providers, people are horrified. Its fascinated that people say that, that twotime trump voting women say that in groups, where does that come from . Ive seen exactly what sarah seen. Its really wild. You have somebody whos got this larger has not life playboy brand, its really am congruous for voters. Thats why its sew important for us to keep repeating it. Ive this many times to candidates, we have to pin it on him. We cant flinch. We cant leave any room for error. This is also about making sure theres a larger narrative about the Republican Party. Its extremist, but its the Republican Party. We have to make it clear that was donald trump and Senate Republicans who confirmed these justices to the court. And point to the policy. When we talk about them all together, it makes a more compelling case. Josh shapiro ran on this broader message of tying freedom and Womens Health care together. It worked for him. Gretchen whit mir whitmer did it, and it worked for her. I want to talk about Justice Alitos mounting pressures. Theres a signal that one of the nine people we took a right we had for 50 years was, at least for a while, sympathetic with the insurrectionists. Im not sure how to tag that back to abortion exactly. I will say him or her family flying a flag in solidarity with the insurrectionists and people claiming that the election was stolen is preposterous. This is one of those situations where we are underreacting to what is happening. The idea it used to be that Supreme Court justices, it mattered a great deal to not be perceived as politicalal all the. This is not just political, he and hi family it was about a, like, small Neighborhood Dispute in which somebody called a name. The way to respond to that is oar obviously i think if youre married to a Supreme Court justice or are a Supreme Court justice, it should be with a great deal of forbearance, but that resulted in flying a flag upsidedown in solidarity is beyond believe, so it goes beyond had persons judgment, let ace lone the values and understanding the role of the Supreme Court and enormous, enormous they have so much responsibility to be a part of the Supreme Court. To just act like you can get into a petty political dispute and use that as an excuse . I find it so stagger and he should be deeply ashamed of himself. I think it is shock to get me that more republicans are not speaking out about how shameful this is, and demanding that he recuse himself. That was happening while he had cases in front of him related to the election. Yeah. It is so irresponsible. I completely agree with on the underreaction. I think its the biggest Supreme Court story weve had to cover, and the Chilling Effect his neighbors felt about him is essentially to the character of one of the nine human beings to sits on the highest court of the land. He told fox news it was a fight among neighbors and this is how we solved it by waving a flag more recently waved 48 hourseringer earlier by nextists, who Christopher Wray that week had call domestic terrorists, to me is the most underreported story of the cycle. I would love to know if that starts showing up in your conversations. I would love to know if it starts to pop up. I have northeast seen it yet, but part of that is because it shows up in the democratic groups. They hear it. They are engaging with media that talks about, on the republican side, they just ignore these stories. This just goes to the center or the core of what is going on with our bifurcated media, and the way that things are filtered. One of the things when you realize you start doing the focus groups and listening to vote is just how much they are in their own media bubble. I think a lot of time voters are like, if they knew about this, surely they would think this. I say, yeah, a lot of times they just dont know it, or even worse, i think theres so much appetite now on the republican side for politics, even from Supreme Court justices, they think of it as him standing up for their side, which is not how the Supreme Court is supposed to work. I would love to dig into this more with both of you. Sarah, minnie, thank you for spending time with you. An Election Denier in ohio, who happens to be the states Secretary Of State, is actively working to keep joe biden off the president ial ballot in november. Well bring you that story, next. Mber well bring you that story, next an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal antiinflammatory medicine directly at the source. Voltaren, the joy of movement. I love that my daughter still needs me. But sometimes i cant help due to burning and stabbing pain in my hands, so i use nervive. Nervives clinical dose of ala reduces nerve discomfort in as little as 14 days. Now i can help again. Feel the difference with nervive. [music playing] tiffany my daughter is mila. She is 19 months old. She is a little ray of sunshine. One of the happiest babies youll probably ever meet. [giggles] children with Down Syndrome typically have a higher risk for developing acute myeloid leukemia, or just leukemia in general. And here we are. Marlo thomas st. Jude Childrens Research Hospital works day after day to find cures and save the lives of children with cancer and other lifethreatening diseases. Tiffany she was referred to st. Jude at 11 months. They knew what to do as soon as they got her diagnosis. They already had her treatment plan drawn out. And they were like, this is what were going to do. This is how long its going to take. This is how long in between. This place is like a family to us now. Like, i cant say enough how grateful we are to be here. Medical bills are always a big thing to everybody because Everybody Knows that anything medical is going to be expensive. We have received no bills since being at st. Jude. We have paid for nothing. Marlo thomas thanks to generous donors like you, families never receive a bill from st. Jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food so they can focus on helping their child live. For just 19 a month, youll help us continue the lifesaving research and treatment that these kids need now and in the future. Join with your credit or debit card right now, and well send you this st. Jude tshirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. Tiffany anybody and everybody that contributes anything to this place, no matter if its a big business or just the grandmother that donates once a month, they are changing peoples lives. And thats a big deal. [music playing] ohio Secretary Of State Frank La Rose, an Election Denier who has supported donald trump in the past has issued a warning to President Joe Bidens campaign. Saying that President Joe Biden might not appear on the president ial ballot this november in the state of ohio. That state has a certification deadline of august 7, 90 days before the other than election which means that each partys candidate has to be officially nominated before that date. But President Joe Biden is slated to become the official nominee of the Democratic National convention which is currently scheduled for two weeks after the deadline. The republican National Convention which will officially nominate expresident donald trump is slated for july. In the past, the State Legislature in ohio has made modifications to the deadline in order to ensure that both partys nominees are on the ballot. This time, according to la rose, ohios State Legislature has no plans to make that change. Lets bring in Voting Rights attorney the found of the dock the mark elias. Mark elias, another sign of democracy, that the norms to be relied on are not to be relied on this time around. This is really disgraceful on the part of the Republican Party and Frank La Rose. Theres a bipartisan understanding because both conventions take place in the summer and they want the media to be able to set up in one city and then another, the party work closely to coordinate to make sure some year, the Democratic Convention goes the second years. Frankly, you see democratic mayors in places like milwaukee, where the Republican Convention is, to say well make sure your Convention Goes absolutely and vice versa. Here, you have a Republican Legislature in ohio that is throwing up unnecessary road blocks, simply to make it harder for the Biden Campaign to have its convention when its otherwise scheduled. It is another, as you say, example of the erosion of democracy. And i have written a lot about Democracy Docket that the norms that we expect to have republicans abide by are really falling by the wayside. Because donald trump and his supporters really just want chaos. They want performative authoritarian and real authoritarian, and there are no moderates, Frank La Rose fashioned himself a moderate. Here he is rubio, theyre told theyre moderates saying on tv they dont think the 2020 election was fair. Mark, what happens does the campaign sue . Is there any guarantee that President Biden will be on the ohio ballot . Yeah, look, the Biden Campaign has a number of options before them, and i am sure they are evaluating all of them, they range from bringing litigation which would get them on the ballot, or doing a Roll Call Vote in advance, or doing frankly just some paperwork to make him formally the nominee in there. So this will get worked out and thats why, though, i think this is such a good example of how we have crossed into uncharted territory. The Republican Party here isnt actually going to keep him off the ballot. The Republican Party is going to do something that is going to require either a lawsuit or inconvenience, simply so they can show fealty to donald trump and the big movement. And that is what we are all up against this fall. And its these tactics that continue to rile up, just creates the circle of the riled up antidemocratic forces within the Republican Party seeking more hits of their own supply. Its really, really amazing. We appreciate you taking the time to join us to talk about it. Well stay on this with your ma. The hearing on the maralago documents case was today. Well tell you about that coming up in the next half hour, dont go anywhere. T go anywhere. Power e trades easytouse tools, like dynamic charting and riskreward analysis, help make trading feel effortless. And its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. E trade from Morgan Stanley with so many choices on booking. Com there are so many tina feys i could be. So i hired body doubles. Mountain climbing tina at a cabin. Or Tree Climbing tina at a beach resort. Nice booking. Com booking. Yeah. Tech need to get your windshield fixed . Safelite makes it easy. You can schedule in just a few clicks. And well come to you with a replacement you can trust. Vo schedule Free Mobile Service now at safelite. Com. Safelite repair, safelite replace. Fundamentally understood that intelligence is one of the great advantages and tools of state craft that anyone has. It is my partial lance, knowing the truth, allowing you to see beyond the horizon. And allow leaders act before they stick it. It has nothing to do with opinion, just the ruths quest to see it, rather than what you prefer. A fundamental misunderstanding of the u. S. Intelligence add its products by expresident donald trump should alarm every last one of us, especially since hes currently the presumptive nominee for president in the 2024 election. If he manages to return to the white house, he prevails, individuals like sue gordon, the director of national intelligence, people who value the intelligence itself, and the people who collect it above any president s personal political agenda say that wont be there. That wont work for the country. Trump and his loyalists wouldnt have him. He would use and handle the intelligence he receives as president only in ways that benefit him, in ways he wants. Its a concept underscored by the fact that trump was charged with 37 counts of mishandling classified documents. Crimes, including willful retention of National Defense information, and obstructing efforts by the government to get those documents back. More crimes. The case originally was scheduled to go to trial this past monday. And has now been indefinitely postponed by the judge overseeing it. Trump appointed judge aileen cannon. But the case just saw huge new revelations to us in the public. Unsealed opinion by u. S. District judge beryl howell back in 2023. Judge howell describes, quote, former president intended to hide boxes from his attorneys Search Efforts to comply with the grand jury subpoena. And resultantly, unlawfully boxes purposely removed from the attorneys search. The judge called out the ridiculousness and as the attorney discovered four more boxes of documents after maralago was search quote, nnotably, no excuse is provided for how the former president could miss the documents in his own bedroom at maralago. And then the founding of further Obstruction Of Justice by the expresident , quote, the government urged that this scramble to maralago in the wake of the june 24, 2022 phone call reflects the former president s realization that the removal of the boxes before the storage room before search was captured on camera, and his attempt back to the storage room could occur off camera. Also unsealed along with judge howells ruling new images of donald trump acodefendant and personal aid walt ngata moving the boxes around. Now in court today, judge aileen cannon youlled on the case, another example, her Delay Tactics when it comes to bringing this case to trial. A case we remind you trumps own former attorney general bill barr said was a legitimate one and said that trump engaged in, quote, outrageous behavior where anyone would be prosecuted. Its where we start the hour with our favorite reporters. Former fbi agent, pete stark is back with us, plus National Investigative reporter for the Washington Post caroline here. And joining me at the table, nbc news correspondent, Vaughn Hillyard is back. Let me start with you, carol leonnig, were learning about this newly sealed, but its not new. Were learning about the layers that donald trump engaged in. Tell me your reaction in arresting this . Well, i think its so smart of you, nicolle that its not new information, but its new to us, its not new to jack smith and largely not to donald trump. But as you get closer to a potential trial and obviously this trial is some way off but as you get closer and there are pleadings and fights into what can be entered into evidence and whether or not the case can go forward at all there are going to be fights and revelations of unsealed motions. New things are going to come out. On this one, its icing on the cherry on the cake about the claims of obstruction that jack smiths team has made about Donald Trumps effort to not turn over the records for months and months and months that were highly classified. Then his attempts once he found out there was a subpoena for them to conceal them and work with one very important valet, an aide to him, to hide and move the boxes to his personal residence and to other places away from the Storage Facility where he was going to authority his attorney to do the certain of the records. His attorney was in the dark, nicolle, remember when he agreed and arranged with former President Trump to come back and look at that storage locker, review all of the records, what he believed were all of the records actually many had been removed by donald trump at his ininstruction. And by his aides. And moved back after key documents had been removed. So that the lawyer wouldnt find everything there really was. And this was additional evidence of donald trump trying to avoid being caught on camera at least his deputies being caught on camera, making these moves. Yes. The obstructive acts in the Mueller Investigation were so stark, they make up a monthly segment of the mueller report, right . Volume one is as long as volume two on russian collaboration. I want to ask you about the substance of this footnote from judge howell. Quote, relatedly on january 6th, 2023 the former president s counsel informed the government, on 2021, witness is redacted scanned the contents of the box on january 5, 2023 and previously contained classified documents on the pac formed by former president in 2020 and the former president provided a thumb drive to the government that day. It seems to me, we might never know, how many people actually touched classified material, where they went, who saw them, who scanned them, who had a thumb drive. Are you confident that the government has in its possession a real sort of assessment of where all of this material has been . No. And i dont think the government thinks they have a level of confidence. I think it explains some of the scramble that i think we saw initially in this case where there was concern that there was material that the fbi had not seized at maralago. There was other classified documents. And now were getting, you know, more visibility into why the Department Of Justice and the fbi were so concerned. And i think it underscores sort of the importance, or maybe even the contrast or the opinion from judge howell in d. C. That was just released. Because that opinion was a judge in d. C. , an experienced judge, who found the conduct here so disturbing that allowed the Department Of Justice to ask the former president s attorney information. Because the judge ruled that it appeared that it was further into something criminal. That is rare. That is a big deal. You now have a judge in florida that has seen even more information than that judge in d. C. And you dont see that level of or the of indignation, or sort of a front from the court. Instead, what you see is extensive hearing after hearing after hearing on various motions including the ones today on selective and vindictive prosecution. Even though that opinion that you just read showed sort of how being vindictive and selective but how targeted and justified the comment was. Well, i think the trump side of the ledger would have you believe theres some political variable. Theres not. How many cases involving classified documents has judge aileen cannon ever presided over . How many trials . None. And its rare. In terms of the equivalence of judge howell in d. C. Who has extensive experience sort of on some of these issues, versus the judge in florida. And part of this is, to underscore your point, and its been talked about, there is overwhelming evidence that Classified Information was stored in maralago where it was not allowed to be. And was not produced to the government. What was released, or unseal, i should say, just furthers that as carol lonnig said, its not new. And the judge has seen it. And the judge appears to have some sympathy, believes theres some merit to some of these really salacious sort of outrageous claims that the former president and defendants are making, including the ones that occurred today. Are there any factual pieces of evidence to underscore the salacious claims that the expresident is making . Well, so, i mean, lets focus, in fact, on the hearing today. So the defendant walt nada said this was selective and should be dismissed. Actually at the hearing actually, theres no evidence that the Department Of Justice was vindictive towards the defendant. The closest they came with some was some obstruction with walt nada and his attorneys. Thats the closest. I say that because judge cannon didnt need a hearing to rule on that. I think sort of the reaction would be, even if these types of arguments, selective prosecution can be made, its oftentimes on the paper, a judge can see theres just no evidence of selective or vindictive prosecution on the papers. But instead there was a hearing, not even combined with other issues, a hearing specifically on this point which just shows, i think, further evidence that this court really finds something very sympathetic about these arguments made even if there doesnt seem to be evidence to support them. Theres evidence of vindictive evidence, its by donald trump and its all on tape. Let me play this. From the indictment. Except it is highly confidential, yeah. Its creative. Look at this, he wanted to attack irrand and what these are the papers. This was done by the military given to me. Up, i think we can probably right . I dont know, well have to see, yeah. Well have to try to figure out. See as president i could have declassified it. Yeah. Now, i cant. That interesting . Pete stark, the person who is vindictive when it comes to the countrys National Security apparatus is donald trump. The charged individual. And i guess my question for you is how do you tell people how do you make sure people understand that whats under assault here is the government that donald trump ostensibly led, was supposed to lead. The person who benefitted from classified material. We dont know how we benefited as citizens. The benefit who benefited were the politicians and leaders who had access to it. It was donald trump. And the people he sought to harm was people with lives on the line to give that information, to be the president. What this was about is essential. Whether or not he should have the job again. Where hes one person in the world that gets all of the worlds secrets with allies that trust us with them. May not anymore, according to interviews ive done. What do you how do you break through sort of all of the noise around this, all of the disqualification on the right about a standard fbi Search Warrant executed on the right, theyre talking about such garbage and not going to platform here. And it gets back to the case where donald trump said bill barrs goose is cooked. Yeah, nicolle, i think this highlights one of the various valuable things that the criminal Justice System does in the United States. When you get witnesses, presenting evidence, introducing facts into evidence, presenting data to a jury who all sits there and can deliberate. And we can have reporters in there listening to it and reporting about it. This isnt a talk show speculation. This isnt some twitter account. These are facts that the government lays out its judge cannon, i agree with you doing more than ive seen any judge in terms of being deferential to a defendant, theres a need that the people are the audience for this trial. The potential voters. Now, the Justice System isnt going to be driven by an election. But one of the reasons the Justice System exists is because the accused can have their day in court and the jury and people can hear what it that makes the government say these allegations. And Defense Attorneys contest it and Defense Attorneys push back and crossexamine and everything that weve searing in new york with the d. A. s case. That is what denies it because judge cannons inability to move this case. What does it say about the fbi when donald trump said, quote, ready, Locked And Loaded to take me out . Well, nicolle, i could cite the deadly policy, every before every single arrest warrant, every warrant, its built into the standard act and read prior to the execution of any warrant. Ive been through dozens and dozens of times its absolutely standard to have that in there. A couple things leap out. One is the lawyers who put that into the filing, in my opinion, were reckless themselves, because they knew by highlighting that and insinuating that somehow the government sand Merrick Garland and joe biden were using the fbi to target donald trump for violence is nonsense. And could be read that way and would be read that way by his supporters. One, i think that was reckless. Second thing, it does place people at risk. It causes people to think, oh, gosh, if youre a Trump Support or you see Marjorie Taylor greene saying they were ready. Do you know who have opponents trying to assassinate them . Authoritarians do that around the world. Its common practice if you tune into the opponents of kim jongun or whoever it is. Of authoritarians, its putting agents unfortunately at danger. And i really hope it gets nipped in the bud soon. When is the Law Enforcement most in danger . Well, i think, certainly, anytime theyre doing something that, one, they are associated with that investigation. And when theyre engaging in an activity that is public in nature. So, when youre out, certainly conducting arrests, those departing somebody of liberty, that could be a highstress environment for everybody involved. And certainly, afterwards, if you get somebody, i would say, you know, drug kingpins, the bosses of Organized Crime Families and unfortunately now, a former president of the United States, when theyre using their platform and their supporters to try to Gin Up Resistance and imply that theyre being wrongly accused or whatever the case may be, all of those things provide a situation where agents can be targeted. Special counsel has a security detail, Special Counsel Mueller did not. We are just reporting the standard day in and day out behavior of donald trump makes it show those people investigating him and prosecuting him, unfortunately, they and their families are subject to bona fide articulatable threats. Vaughn hillyard, todays biggest stories, i havent seen the rundowns for the first pages of tomorrow, i think weve covered trump long probably wont be on the front page of any newspaper, right, that today donald trump accused the Justice Department of trying to assassinate his family. Joe biden was Locked And Loaded during the despicable raid. Kim jongun talks about hes known about the Intelligence Community and the world over is paranoid, as is vladimir putin. And now donald trump accusing the Department Of Justice of i dont want to misquote him, to do the unthinkable, Locked And Loaded and ready to take me out and my family. How do we cover someone whose language is so clearly tied to increasing threats to the fbi, theres been a threat to the Fbi Field Office, and gets notice . Especially when people are so eager to act in his own defense. Excuse me. Weve already seen Somebody Attack the Fbi Field Office in cincinnati. We saw just earlier this spring, Somebody Drive into the field office for the fbi in atlanta. We know from our own conversations, but also from evidence of people being arrested for the threats theyve made for Law Enforcement, including the fbi that they are willing to act on behalf of donald trump. So when we hear this war rhetoric, right, coming from supporters of donald trump, when he see steve bannon suggesting that the fbi attempted to as nature donald trump, and Marjorie Taylor greene saying the fbi, thats a war that people already believe is being engaged. So when youre looking at this, to what end does all of this come . I dont know its clear. All idol know is that donald trump and his allies are not being truthful about the underlying facts of the case, Christina Bobbitt is somebody who Will Certified On June 3rd they surrendered the documents to the fbi. Shes working as Senior Council of the rnc for the 2024 campaign. He was arraigned in arizona as part of the indictments here. And yet underlying facts of the case were pushed aside. Instead, they turn their attention on those doing the prosecution, and the investigation, those like the fbi, that ultimately are the ones having to go in and seize the documents that donald trump had attested had been turned over. This is, you know, not to be, too flagrant with this. But a civil war, so many people already believe we are engaged in. Hearing that sort of a rhetoric who believes that . His people, his supporters believe it. They are locked and load. When they hear from donald trump the man as they view as heir leader and savior, that theyre Locked And Loaded, that means you we better get ready here. Were on the cusp, the fan who should be the future president right now if it hadnt been stolen from him that we are in this moment here and if you are not prepared for whats coming the next five months then youre naive to where americans a large segment find themselves. Let me ask you, it was a specific story in those circles, rightwing circles . Absolutely, it was everywhere. Every right wing outlet, every rightwing personality on social media to real american voices. Each of these platforms were promoting this. And they have millions of individuals who are taking all of this in. That the majority of americans . No. But its a very potent minority. Let me ask you quickly. Someone who served as ambassador to the united nations, and still pulling in pretty large numbers of votes two months after quitting the race, somebody who is too old to serve said he has her vote, nikki haley. Nikki haley in 2015 donald trump is everything chi taught my children not to do in kindergarten, i told my children you dont lie and make things up pep she served on his administration. January 6th she called it an ugly day, and then she was running for president. Then we saw nikki haley while her husband was deployed to africa with u. S. Armed service mocked by donald trump for being away. It was the words of nikki haley that were explicit about donald trump said in part, they were disgusting, awful and unhinged. Her own husband got on social media and fired back and said the difference between humans and animals, animals would never allow the dumbest ones to lead the pack. His allies pushed extramaritalal fair rumors about her. This is somebody that said she may not be eligible to run for president because her parents are immigrants, and today her announcing shes going to vote for donald trump is just another chapter that we lived out with marco rubio, and she said she would vote for donald trump and the day is evidence that shes sticking to her words. We need experts to explain that, what youre reporting doesnt make a lick of sense to me. J. D. Vance in 2014 said something similar. But for her and her husband to both be feuding publicly with him just days and weeks before that, is inexplicable. I think its power. American politics, access to party and a party you that identify with say future. And i think that we have a great share of individuals that have proved this time and again, that are staying closely associated to donald trump is a guarantee that you are relevant within politics, if you choose to remain in politics. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Vaughn hillyard wearing many hats. Brandon, thank you for starting off for us. News has broken in the last few minutes. The New York Times another blockbuster piece of reporting about Supreme Court Justice Alito. Times reporting exclusively that Justice Alito displayed another flag used by January 6th Insurrectionists at one of his homes. Next, the we head and his allies with the ongoing onslaught of prosecutors and Law Enforcement officials gravely destroying the law of america. Jim comey, one of Donald Trumps earliest targets will be our guest in the deadline white house. That will be after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Dont go anywhere. Owards us visionworks. See the difference. Slowing my cancer from growing and living longer are two things i want from my Metastatic Breast Cancer treatment. And with kisqali, i can have both. 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We have some Breaking News for you about a story we first brought to you last week. There is stunning brandnew reporting again in the New York Times that only adds to the questions swirling around Supreme Court Justice Samuel alito. It turns out there was a second flag with ties to the january 6 insurrection. Flying at a second home owned by alito. And this time, it was in the near 2023. Citing photographs taken at separate times along with interviews from multiple neighbors, the New York Times is reporting that, quote, another provocative symbol was displayed at his Vacation House in new jersey it was the, quote, Appeal To Heaven flag which like the inverted u. S. Flag was carried by rioters at the capitol on january 6th, 2021. Also known as the pine tree flag, it dates back to the revolutionary war, but largely fell into obscurity until recent years and is now a symbol of support for former president donald j. Trump, a religious strand of the Stop The Steal campaign. And you can see the flag being flown here by insurrectionists at the u. S. Capitol on january 6th. The times reports during the time that the flag flew above Justice Alitos Vacation Home in new jersey, the Supreme Court picked up a critical case that could decide whether Capitol Rioters can be charged with obstruction. Both the United States Supreme Court and Justice Alito declined to comment to the New York Times. Joining us now by phone, former lead investigators for the january 6th committee, tim heaphy, pete strzok is also with us. Jim, as i asked you to do about the upside down American Flag, tell me what the Appeal To Heaven flag meant on january 6th. Its a symbol of this sort of protest america has gone astray, very strong strain of antigovernment sentiment that was present at the capitol. There were a lot of icons, flags, symbols, along these lines that were literally carried by the insurrectionists at the capitol. This is one of those flags that was carried as people were fighting with Capitol Police officers. And the symbol, its a pine tree. But the Appeal To Heaven is essentially a return to christian principles. Theres a strong strain of Christian Nationalism that was present at the capitol thats emerging in sort of farright circles so advocates can turn to biblical principles, completely different than separation of church and state. Its a flag according to the New York Times which was flown, intentionally flown, by Justice Alito at his Vacation Home. Let me read, tim heaphy, as one of the flags flown by the insurrectionists or waved on january 6th, times reports, quote, until a decade the appeal of the heaven flag was mostly an historic relic and it should be what how it should be governed said Matthew Taylor a religious scholar at the institute of jewish studies. Hes also the Author A Book Chasing How author and speaker Who Repopularized The Flag helped propel trumps attempt to overturn the election. Take me inside your investigation, what your investigation of the january 6th select Committee Found about the coalition that showed up on that day, to support Donald Trumps efforts to do what he sought to do obstruct . Well, theres a lot of motivations out there, nicolle. Obviously, the election was the primary impetus but there were a lot of people directly cynical about the direction of the american government. And a lot of people shared the views to return of fundamental principles often based in a fundamentalist view of religion. I dont know if this was an organized coherent campaign or coalition of people that got together and made plans. A lot of people were just pissed off and showed up at the capitol because the election was just the latest in a series of things they believed had taken the american governmental stray. Regardless, nicolle, again, coming back to the intentional use of this symbol by a Supreme Court justice raises clear Appearance Issues. I dont think it makes Justice Alito an insurrectionist or even an aider or abettor of election. That doesnt matter. Thats not the standard. The standard is does it create an Appearance Issue where he is flying a flag that was carried by an insuctionist while Making Decisions that directly impact the legal response to that event. Its absolutely a clear Appearance Issue mandating that. And tim, remind me how many january 6threlated cases involve the information that the committee ultimately have access to made their way to the Supreme Court and how Justice Alito voted . Well, the one case in the select Committee Litigation Document that made it to the Supreme Court was trump versus thompson. And Justice Alito joined the majority and found there was not a privilege for disclosure of records and only Justice Thomas dissented on that. Shes now sitting on two relevant january 6 cases. One, involving the interpretation of the obstruction statute. We make criminal referrals referencing that very statute to the Department Of Justice. The Special Counsel has used that statute, the scope of it is an issue before the Supreme Court. It will have direct impact on hundreds of january 6 cases. Obviously, nicolle, the big one is the immunity case, whether or noted president charged by Special Counsel has any degree of immunity at or and january 6 thats around the Supreme Court. This Appearance Issue creates a conflict. You talked about appearances. The insurrectionists themselves, how do they see the flying of both of these flags, the upside down American Flag and the pine tree flag, tim heaphy . Theyre rallying flags, nicolle, these are symbols that are meant to attract likeminded others. Thats why people carried flags at the capitol, right . Was to proudly declare an ideology and to rally others to that same support. They are intentionally meant to convey a perspective. Lets bring in pete strzok. The New York Times goes to on to report on january 6, the heaven flag was prominent at the Washington Monument to hear president contest Election Results and later about the angry mob that surrounded the capitol. The flag was visible on the west terrace as rioters breached police lines underneath the scaffolding set up for President Bidens inauguration. And finally into the building. And by that day, the flags had been popular enough to be used by other groups including militia members, most often its tied directly to the vision for a more christian america. What do you make of the problem that former or current fbi director Christian Wray has described is the greatest threat to the home mand which is Domestic Violence extremely, which the sim do which tim has currently said doesnt make alito an insurrectionist, but certainly believe this was the subject of their cause on january 6 . Im reminded of the saying fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. This is not the only time with the alito residence with the january 6 insurrectionist. I was glancing to that article and it does make reference to the new episodic information movement. This is not just about the conservative christian etiology, this is extreme criticism interpreting into american governance and the american constitution. So, its very important, that one, we were talking about the importance of the judicial system in the prior block. When people go in the courtroom, and i did throughout my career, theres an expectation that the judge youre facing is a neutral arbiter. That they dont have beliefs one way or the other and that theyre going to project are the trial in an impartial way. Really with people with extraordinarily extreme views of what Role Christianity should have in america, and then you back that out and you think about alitos commentary on decisions like dobbs and elsewhere, it paints a very concerning picture of what, one, the Supreme Court justice believes. And two, that he simply doesnt care about the appearance hes creating by flying these flags upside down, or with certain causes in his various homes. And this, again, to your point, this is taking place after dobbs. This is taking place after the january 6 insurrection. This is taking place after these cases are arriving at the Supreme Court for consideration. And i think it does throw into a great deal of question his ability to be objective and rule impartially on all positions. Ill ask an extraordinarily huge thing of the public, right, what are the odds that two of nine justices would be this closely associated with both first ever transfer of power, one, by sending emails to participants in the fake electors plot in various State Legislatures. And the other by flying two flags over his house. Both of them carried by the insurrectionists themselves on january 6. What are the odds, two of nine . Its unbelievable. Were grateful to have both of you to talk us through the Breaking News story. Well continue to follow it cover it, to see if the court responds to see if the alitos respond. In the first story, we should note that alito blamed his wife within an hour and a half. Weve been monitoring her twitter feed. No such interview has taken place. Pete strzok and tim heaphy, thank you very much. When we come back, how the twice impeached, four times indictmented, the president , people held accountable are strongly eroding. And asking about mike flynn, the former director jim comey at the desk next. Dont go anywhere. We actually have reinvented ocean voyages, designing allinclusive experiences for the thinking person. Viking voted worlds best by both Travel Leisure and conde nast traveler. Learn more at viking. Com. Summers on its way. And wayfairs Big Memorial Day clearance is here now its the talk of the town. Right now through may 28th, get up to 70 off everything home. Save on finds for indoors and out. Plus, score surprise flash deals thatll make your day. And get it all with fast shipping straight to your door. Save up to 70 off wayfairs memorial day clearance now through may 28th, and kickstart your summer with savings wayfair every style, every home trumper, hes somebody that dislikes donald trump. We have a attorney general in new york, these grossly incompetent, shes a dangerous person. We have deranged jack smith. District attorney is compromised. The case has to be dropped. Alvin bragg does nothing, he goes after guys like trump who does nothing wrong. Part of the package, right, the new normal, for anyone with the audacity to investigation the expresident. Special counsel, district attorneys, congressional members of congress doing their jobs seeking to protect the rule of law. Its also the Building Blocks of something else. The intentional destruction of rule of law that awaits all of us if donald trump returns to the white house and the presidency. Before there was alvin bragg and fan any willis, jack smith, Robert Mueller on the receiving end, and there was former fbi director jim comey who warns that another trump term could change the rule of law in a way we havent seen in our lifetime. Director comey joins us now, i dont know if you saw Rachel Maddows Brilliant Program monday night. She talked about how the rule of law is mortal, and human and can break. I think the reason when trump fired you, he wanted you, that led to Mueller Being appointed abruptly ends your tenure. I think there was so much sort of chafe in the system about the end of the 2016 campaign that people didnt reflectively defend you. I think that was the beginning, right, of the Rule Of Law Being Maligned and sneered. I saw what rachel said and i agree with her. He started taking a blow torch to the fbi as soon as we make it clear at the fbi that we were not going to do his bidding, and he started to burn it down. This is just a continuation of that. Then he went after Andrew Mccabe who became the Acting Director of the fbi, sought to finish him for the pretty activities of his wife. Anything he does have been judge machen or alvin bragg. Right. Hes trying to burn it down so theres no project in the future. He knows the laws are bad for him, if he can flame it all, smoke it all out, make it harder for people to see or hold him accountable, hell be safer in the future. What do you think, whats the score between donald trump and the rule of law . It feels if you watched the maralago case in florida, if you watch trumps fundraising accusing the Department Of Justice of wanting to assassinate him. It feels like trumps winning, not the rule of law. Its slightly different. There are some games that havent been finished yet. The rule of law is largely undefeated. I track it back to the lies. He was zero to 60, no matter what the judge is like or where theyre from, you have to bring facts. You cant lie in court. What i like most about the case going on in manhattan now, its a civicics dles for america. This is what it looks like, you might not lose supporters if you shoot somebody on fifth avenue, but this is what it looks like, you sit at a table and shut up. I dont know if you saw barbara costellos testimony and the brilliant cross of him, the emails were from an era where you were pressure out of politics and very fresh in Donald Trumps crosshairs. What do you think of the things he said about donald trump and Rudy Giuliani . Its the same costa nosetra drive, the talk, and feeling i started to get early with trump has become more widespread, i think. And it just reminds me of more of that, bringing people to court, like michael corleone, bringing frankies brother from sicily. The mob used to do that, im not sure that Lauren Boebert has the same rattling on a witness or j. D. Vance. But this is mob stuff. People need to Pay Attention and realize donald trump is a really bad guy. Theres a reason he talks and acts this way. Hes a cosa note tra leader. Do you think people believes the threat to the democracy and rule of lawful hes reelected . I dont think so. Trumps malevolent is so real. And tim heaphy picked it. And said you shouldnt allow anyone near the oval office. If you want more information, go watch one of his rallies. Youll never be a lowinformation voter. I hear criticism of biden left and right, fine. This is not about that. A vote in for mickey mouse is a vote for this boss. And you cannot do that. Do you have any idea what hes going to do, to prosecute, and interested in political consequences for the january 6 committee . He does what he says one of trumps fuel virtues is he tends to follow through son the threats he makes, not to produce infrastructure, to give insight on contraceptives or something. If he makes a threat he follows up because if he doesnt, he looks weak in his eye. Youre here to talk about your new novel. Its not surprising, but you are a very good story teller. Your character is a Strong Female protagonist. Well talk about the book on The Other Side of the break. Okay. Okay. Innovation in Health Care Means nothing if no one can afford it. At evernorth, were helping to unlock barriers. Using our 35 plus years of pharmacy benefits Management Experience to save businesses billions while boosting medication adherence. Helping Plan Sponsors and their members be at their best. Thats wonder made possible. Evernorth health services. The promise of america is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. Reproductive rights, Voting Rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. We must act now to restore and protect these freedoms for us and for the future, and we cant do it without you. We are the American Civil Liberties union. Will you join us . Call or go online to my aclu. Org to become a guardian of liberty today. Your gift of just 19 a month, only 0. 63 a day, will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for free speech, liberty and justice. Your support is more urgently needed than ever. Reproductive rights are on the line and we are looking at going backwards. We have got to be here. Weve got to be strong to protect those rights. So please join the aclu now. Call or go to my aclu. Org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just 19 a month. When you use your credit card, youll receive this special We The People tshirt member card magazine and more to show youre part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. For over 100 years, the aclu has fought for everyone to have a voice and equal justice. And we will never stop because We The People, means all of us. So please call or go online to my aclu. Org to become a guardian of liberty today. Comey is among many other things a novelist now. This is your second novel featuring nora carlton. This is who you dedicate the novel to, to my grandchildren, an endless source of joy and optimism. Tell me what i know how noras well summarize this without spoiling anything. She takes a break from Public Service and goes to the private sector. What happens next . She gets caught up after one of her colleagues is found murdered. Im not giving anything away. It happens in the opening of the book. Shes the target of that murder investigation. She needs help to clear herself and figure out who did it. I hope its a fun who dun it. She relies on her friend, a Mafia Investigaor to help her. The richness of the characters inside the fbi and the Prosecutors Office are clearly derived from real people. David kelly has been part of our coverage of the alvin bragg trial, theres a character you shaped around him. How much do you miss the people you worked alongside . Thats what i miss the most. I dont miss the political nonsense. I dont miss going to capitol hill testifying. I dont miss that. I miss the quality of the people. You had peter strzok on him, people like that, just want to know whats true and do the right thing. Its a cruel thing to be surrounded by those people all day long. You miss him . Very much. We shouldnt have access to people like peter strzok. He should still be in the fbi getting the bad guys. It seems like trumps plan to purge people from the fbi like you and peter strzok. The thing about the fbi, its full of those kinds of people, hundreds of thousands. You have to get rid of everybody. Youll see an effort to steer the fbi away from the Department Of Justice to use the power of the fbi and where you can slice its power off and get others to help carry out their mission. Do you worry about your former workforce when you see him accuse the Department Of Justice and joe biden of trying to hurt him and endanger his family during the courtapproved search of maralago . Of course. Its a lie, but its a lie that fox echos and other places echo and americans internalize that lie just like they did about the search to begin with. It hurts their morale and endangers them. What are the politics in the fbi . Are they hyper partisan . They lean center right. The idea theyre a bunch of leftwing antifa is crazy. The military, the Intelligence Community, the fbi attracts people who tend to be right of center. Not wing nuts, but right of center. Jim comey, thanks for being here. The books are great. The first one was fantastic. Grateful you were here and part of the conversation. Thanks for what you do. West port is available out now. Quick break for us. Were right back. Were right back l tales of true deliveries. I needed a miracle. So i went straight to where miracles happen. Social media. Hey did someone say miracle . Let me see that. So, i got the board to tony. And he even sent one back. But in the future, im gonna need an address and a zip code. If this is what we did for a skateboard, see what we can do for your business. Fedex. If you have moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis or crohns disease. Put it in check with rinvoq. A once daily pill. When symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief. And reduced fatigue with rinvoq. Check. When flares kept trying to slow me down. 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Our thanks for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. We are grateful. The beat with ari melber starts now. Hi, nicolle. Welcome to the beat im ari melber. Were reporting on a day both sides have rested in trumps criminal trial. Scenes we have been following like this. The jury likely to begin deliberating next week in now