If they just do on wise guys. I cant believe how things keep going our way. Wise guys a buddy comedy about a two low level gang centers who work for a Mafia Don Named Costello and get into all sorts of high jinx. Probably not the highlight of Danny Devitos long and successful career but it was sort of the high point for his costar joe piskapoe. He wept onto play a hapless mobster from the 1930s alongside Michael Keyton from the movie dangerously. Two years later he played a modern version of the same character in wise guys. After that he did not get a lot of other leading roles until today when joe piscopo was among the retinue of Odd Characters who came to a manhattan courthouse to support donaldma trump. The witness on the stand was Robert Costello, the Trump Affiliated Lawyer who Michael Cohen says pressured cohen to stay loyal to donald trump. Now, you might say to yourself is it really a good idea to have a criminal defendant, donald trump, sitting next to joe piscopo, a guy named for playing a mobster g in the fictional costello crime family while a brash trump lawyer fellow named Robert Costello took The Stand Inok Real Life to face question about his own mauf mafialike brush up. Cause playing mafia oc is sort of trump worlds whole thing. Yesterday costello was smacked down by the judge in the case by his smacky wise guy attitude in court. Today Susan Haufen Jr took him apart on the stand reading a series of emails that revealed costello to be acting like a Hired Gun For Donald Trump at a time when costello was supposed to be acting like Michael Cohens lawyer. He was just one of the emails about cohen read today in court. Our issue is to get cohen on the right page without give the appearance wereiv following instructions fromce rudy giulia or the president , donald trump. It was not subtle at all. What prosecutors today were able to do with the help of supporting cast member joe piscopo is once again highlight the moblike quality of the entire trump affair. Heres how he described the pressure he was getting from trump to congress in 2019. Mr. Trump called me a rat for choosing to tell the truth, much like a mobster would do when one of his men decides to cooperate with the government. Over theer years we sl seen lot of people describe trumps Pressure Campaigns and demands for loyalty as moblike. But probably the most high profile person to do so is this man, former fbi director james comey. Before becoming fbi director comey made a name for himself investigating the gambino crime family, so hes a guy who very much knows what mafia Crime Tactics lookcr like up close. Trump put pressure on comey to end michael flynn. Trump told comey he wanted loyalty from his fbi director. When comey did not give trump that idloyalty, trump fired him. This was how james comey went onto describe his interactions with President Trump. I had a flashback to my days investigating the mafia. I felt this effort to make us all maybe this wasnt their intention but how it felt to me, were all part of the message, all part of the effort. The boss is at the head of the table and were going to figure out how together how to do this. How strange is it for you to sit here and compare the former president to a mob boss . Very strange, and i do it lightly. And im not trying to suggest President Trump is off breaking legs and shaking down shop keep, but instead what im talking about is that Leadership Culture constantly comes back to me when i think about my experience with the trumpou administration. So james comey had a Front Row Seat to observe this mafiastyle management and we were reminded of that during this trial. During one Pivotal Moment in the testimony david pecker testified he walked in on a trump tower meeting in early 2017 between President Elect director comey and several members of trump staff. Pecker was there to update trump on the Hush Money Arranget that his magazine had orchestrated Karen Mcdougal on trumps behalf. Comey was there to update trump on a shooting and privately brief him on the existen of the steele doss yr. Pecker testified when trump introduced pecker to comey and the others trump joked heres david pecker. Hes the owner, the publisher of the national enquirer, and he probably knows more than anybody else in this room. The Suggestion Beingn that a Tabloid Publisher would know more than the director of the fbi because in trumps world the person who knows the most is the one who is the most loyalty. Joining me now is james comey, Thes Author Of Two Fictional crime novels. The latest is called west port, it details a murder at the Worlds Largest hedge fund and is out today. Director, its good to see you. Thank you for being here, author. Were going to get to the book in a minute, but i do have to ask you when we thought so much about the way you characterized the Trump Administration and his Management Style over the course of the last few weeks revelation upon revelation about how trump and his associates operated, as you have watched this from the side lines given this sort of hypothesis you made public, this is a form of Organized Crime that operates like that, what have you thought . It felt familiar to me. I found my own reaction so dramatic i tried to suppress it, but it kept coming back and coming back. Its back fully now watching thisll trial. Even did the trick. Like godfather 2 he brings frankys brother from sicily to try to rattle him. They didnt have to travel as far. And even dressed as the mobsters do. It felt familiar. Wae read that excerpt from david peckers testimony talking about the meeting. Trump says he knows more than anybody else. Do you remember that meeting . I wrote down everything that happened w and if you read my memos thats not recorded in it. Doesnt mean pecker is being dishonest. He may just have a different recollection than i do. Ec some of the checks donald trump allegedly signedon also on key dates in the administration. For example, the day donald trump sent aex 70,000 check to Michael Cohen reimbursing him allegedly for theg Hush Money Payments to Stormy Daniels, thats the same day trump was pressuring you to end it does suggest throughout the Trump Presidency heut may have been shall we say multitasking. I do wonder as we go back to the idea that the Trump Organization indeed the Trump Presidency may have operated in the kind of Organized Crime, Syndicate Crime fashion what parallels do you see in the boss being involved in alls of the business, if yo will . Well, he, kind of Turned Th Oval Office into a social cub, a version of john gadis ravenite social club. I wasnt there to that time to see him. I was his Chief Of Staff who thenta said hey you want to vis the boss, no, hes busy. No, dont worry about it, come on, come on. That sounds very much like a Godfather Come in and kiss the ring. Yeah, you wantan to see the g man basically, and i tried very hard not to, but he ushered me in. That was one of my encounters with the president. Er it seems like there were these colorful characters to be uf mystic about it mixing in the normal day to day affairs of the white house. Did it strike you odd or was it the way trump was . Odd that wasnt the way other pres operated. Id seen other president s up close and they exercised discipline, information management. But this was chaotic, but that was the way of this particular boss. Ive got toy ask you becaus weve been talking about so much the way in which the prosecution is laying out a case that suggests the Trump Campaign was desperate to quell another october surprise, right . We didnt learn about Stormy Daniels in the literal hours leading up to election day. We did hear more about Hillary Clintons emails. I know you played an Instrumental Role in all of that, and i wonder how youre thinking about the sort of Information Control in and around the election and whether, you know, you have anyn regret . I have a deep and lasting regret we were involved at all. I felt in the exact moment i was brief on the investigation on the 27th of october. Its interesting now to look back and see trying to figure out which of our options was the least bad, all of this was going on the trump side trying to suppress information. Obviously i knew nothing about it and tried not to think about the political in making that decision, but its a strange overlap of events. Can i ask you about this desire to not think about the political . Because this Department Of Justice especially in its early days seemed very concerned about appearing too political. In the aftermath of january 6th there are a lot of t folks on bh sides of the aisle that say Merrick Garland and the doj were too concerned about the appearanceer of going after tru after january 6th. Do you have an opinion on that . As someone whos caught a lot of rocks im reluctant to throw any, but i think they learned lessons from my own experience and from the Trump Administration, and they were too slow. And it cost us because we got a special counsel late in the game. Given what they were trying to accomplish i get why they did it, but i still think it was a mistake. How do you feel when this Hush Money Trial is likely to be the Onlyli Criminal Trial that goes forward . Given where the calender is this is the only one where it looks like the American Public will have a verdict on before the election . And a Law Enforcement guy are you frustrated by the way this is unfolding . Yes. But i also have found this trial to be a great civics lesson for the american people. Vi it appears more paying attention than i would have expected and this is how it works. You may not lose supporters when you shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue but you will be held accountable, and this is what accountability likes like. You have to sit at that table no matter who you are and shut up. The jury is what matters. This is how it works and its a great lesson for the american people. The rule of lawhe in this count especially the court system has passed its stress test slow on the federal side but this is a great example for our people. You say its passed its stress test. Are you concerned it may get a test unlike any other if donald trump is elect snd when you think about a second Trump Administration what do you think the implications would be for the fbi . Oh, serious for the Justice Department and fbi because trump is coming for those institutions. He knows their power and i think he has regrets he did not work hard enough to corrupt them last time, so hes coming for them and thats a danger for all americans. Hes going to put people in thoset positions. Hell have the bottom of the barrel b this time but people w will want p to do his will, and that should worry every american. This election matters because of a reason like that. People have to participate. You cant sit on the side line. I dont care how t you feel abo joe biden you must vote for him because the consequences on the other side aree too severe. I will note so youve written two books, and theyre best sellers. Youre billed as the New York TimesBest Selling Author, not to mention oh, yes also director of the fbi. Is this just another act were not looking back, were only looking forward . No, its something ive done ive fallen in love with so im a grandfather and a fulltime writer and that fills my life. So im writing about things i know, the worlds i know, but im glad other people are bearing those responsibilities i once. Im sure in a moment like this youre happy to be a footnote in the Mention Ofy Th trial and not the subject of it yourself. Former fbi director and the New York TimesBest Selling Author james comey, author again of the novel westport, which is on sale right now. Its been a real pleasure to talk to you about this. Great to get your perspective. Thank you. Coming up, election denialism. It is proving very, very expensive for Rudy Giuliani. His new financial lifeline decalf rudy, im not even kidding. And the criminal trial of the former president and now the very tricky part begins. Ill have more on that and what happens next after the break. T happens next after the break her uncles unhappy. Im sensing an underlying issue. Its tmobile. It started when we tried to get him under a new plan. But they they unexpectedly unraveled their price lock guarantee. Which has made him, a bit. Unruly. You called yourself the uncarrier. You sing about price lock on those commercials. the price lock, the price lock. so, if you could change the price, change the name its not a lock, i know a lock. So how can we undo the damage . We could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. Their connection is unreal. And we could all unexperience this whole session. Okay, thats uncalled for. President trump, are you going to testify . Yes. Do you plan to testify in court . Probably so. I would like to. I mean i think so. Today the defense rested in the new york Criminal Hush Money Trial where donald trump did not end up testifying. But Robert Costello, the former Legal Advisor to the prosecutions star witness, Michael Cohen, did testify with the goal of undermining cohens credibility. It didnt exactly work out that way. Instead mr. Costello ended up corroborating parts of cohens testimony. On may 14th he testified i didnt trust him. Meaning bob costello, i believed upon all our conversations he would immediately run back to mr. Giuliani and that conversation would be divulged to President Trump. Multiple emails confirmed exactly that, showing that costello was indeed acting as a back channel to trump and giuliani precisely as Michael Cohen claimed he was. Joining me now are kristi greenberg, former federal prosecutor and former sdny criminal deputy chief, and duncan levine, former District Attorney for the Eastern District of new york. Theres a lot of legal stuff i want to get to, but first on the big picture, kristi, was it a good idea for the defense to end with bob costello . It was a bad idea. It chaep helped bolster Michael Cohens credibility. Anything that makes Michael Cohen smelling like a rose, you have to think thats a bad idea interest the defense, but these emails today oozing with slime. Michael cohen testified this guy wanted to me by lawyer, but i didnt really trust him, i thought he was working for donald trump, and sure enough we get emails today where the emails are pretty explicit, weve got to make it appear as though were not acting under the instruction of Rudy Giuliani or the president. Like its it in writing, and the defense knows these emails exist so like why in the world would you call this guy . Putting aside all the antics that also happened in front of the jury where he was just blatantly disrespectful not something you would expect with a lawyer as a witness much less somebody who held my position as a former federal prosecutor. Its maddening. All the things the style and substance, it was a total train wreck for the defense. Okay, in no uncertain terms, bad idea. The stage were at now judge merchan is deliberating on a number of instructions the jury is going to be given, which is very important if a little bit dry, but this is kind of where the rubber meet the road, right . Yeah, i mean not all lawyering can be sexy as Hush Money Payments and recorded tapes, but is more like reading the fine print of a contract. But its so important because this is the way in which the xi interacts with all the evidence before it. The proscaution judge merchan hasnt ruled formerly on most of the requests but looks like it was a mixed bag for most of the defense. The prosecution won a big victory today or i should say a somewhat big victory today a meaningful victory. In some of the small precipitate. Two of the elements of the offense is that the falsification of Business Records was done with the intent to defraud and the intent to conceal the commission of another offense thats the felony charge step up. Thats the bump up. And on that bump up the prosecution went through two victories. One is that those are not too separate things, the intent to defraud and intent to conceal the commission of another crime are the same thing. The more interesting thing is it looks like judge merchan is ruling not all of the jurors need to be unanimous in the way in which he covered up this conspiracy to promote an election by unlawful means, meaning that one juror could decide the Stormy Daniels payment does it. One jury could decide it was the Karen Mcdougal payment that did it. Another could decide it was a pax payment that did it. That gives the prosecution a lot of flexibility. And that seems like something alvin bragg fore saw because we understand what the misdemeanor, there needs to be that secondary step up charge, and blag long maintained correct me if im wrong, it could be a number of things. What are the things youre going to pursue . He never outlined clearly one thing and sounds like the judge said thats fine, it could be a number of Different Things and jurors come to conclusions. Yes, the one caveat i believe is still an open question is whether those unlawful means must be criminal, which is what the defense may be arguing as to whether it could be unlawful, meaning it could also be civil, and the defense was really key on wanting to have this willfully language put in meaning that you know youre acting intentionally, and what youre doing is going to result in a violation of the crime of the law. So the judge hadnt quite decided on yet, but i agree with duncan this is a win for the prosecution and gives them more flexibility. Theres a moment it sounds like judge merchan is giving a meaningful victory. It changes the way they interact with the jurors. The first element is that donald trump caused the false records to be the new records to be falsified. Now, the statute itself doesnt define what is cause, and the prosecutions asking for a very expansive and his actions basically led to this foreseeable event, that his actions were reasonably foreseeable. That he was ordering or he is suggesting to weisselberg to sort of come up with scheme by which to pay off Stormy Daniels he was the chicken that laid the egg in the machine of payments to Stormy Daniels. One thing started the ball rolling and what he did basically set in motion some events that reasonably was foreseeable that would have caused this, so the judge indicated he is unlikely to give that instruction. The reason thats important is theres really no evidence in the case yet donald trump picked up the phone and called Michael Cohen or allen weisselberg. It puts a lot more emphasis on Michael Cohens direct testimony where he said he ordered it, he authorized it whereas before you could say even without Michael Cohen its a strong circumstantial case. There may be one juror who said maybe he didnt cause the false records to be filed, so you can see where these instructions, look, it may be there are two lawyers on this jury, and these things just change the way the jury is going to look at the evidence and think about it. Well, just to think about Donald Trumps role in it, right . I mean all along the defense has tried to cast doubt on the degree to which trump was really engaged in this, and the prosecution has suggested he knew where every dollar was going to go. He didnt want to pay 650 for a tiffany frame and it sort of sounds like theres a potentially higher standard of proof. Yes, though i will say he signed nine of the checks. Like there are 34 counts but nine of those counts is the check he personally signed. And again attached to that is the invoice that says its for a retainer for legal services, which is false. So hard to see at least with those nine counts how even with an instruction like this we couldnt get to a guilty verdict on those nine. And those nine should be enough. Should the operate chb word. I want to ask you about the timing here. Were ending with costello. Merchan is going to give the instructions going to finish writing the instructions whatever that means later this week the jury will get them next week. This is a delay, duncan, right . Theres several days during which a jury is like potentially marinating on things, and i wonder if you have a thought about who is at an advantage in that. Its an unforeseeable scheduling issue. What the judge decided is he didnt want too much time and skenling issues this week with some of the jurors anyway. Theres going to be some dead time later this week and then memorial day, and he made a decision to have a break now rather than try to muddle through this week and have a break for memorial day and get started on tuesday. I dont know it benefits one side or the other. Probably it benefits both sides. The lawyers are going to be feverishly working until Tuesday Morning when they make these closing statements and theyll be working on both sides like crazy to hone these arguments. Theyll be moving them to their colleagues and friends and practicing in the mirror. I think for both sides its benefitting everybody. That was spoken like someone whos practiced in the mirror before. Once or twice. Duncan levine, kristi greenberg, so great to have you on here to decipher whats happening. Still ahead tonight a booming economy, a closed border, the restoration of Law And Order and oh, a unified reich. The new conservative priorities coming up next. The new conservative priorities coming up next when enamel is gone, you cannot get it back. But you can repair it with Pronamel Repair. It penetrates deep into the tooth to actively repair acid weakened enamel. I recommend Pronamel Repair. With new Pronamel Repair mouthwash you can enhance that repair beyond brushing. They work great together. Craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. So he sublet half his real estate office. You can enhance that repair beyond brushing. [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. Megs moving company uses tmobile. So she scaled down her fleet to save money. And dons paying so much for at t, hes been waiting to update his equipment theres a smarter way to save. Comcast business mobile. You could save up to 70 on your wireless bill. So you dont have to compromise. Powering smarter savings. Powering possibilities. Headlines that read economy booms and american prosperity is back are sort of the things you might expect from a Trump Campaign video about what a second term might look like, but then theres this one. Industrial strengthen significantly increased driven by the creation of a unified reich. That would be a reference to the third reich, the official nazi designation for hitlers murderous genocidal regime. The headlines reposted to the social media account of the republican frontrunner. Now, the Trump Campaign says the video came from a random account that a Staffer Reposted on truth social account and also his instagram while trump was in court yesterday. This is how the Biden Campaign has responded. Parting mein kampf while you warn of a bloodbath if you lose is the type of unhinged behavior you get. Ginning me is a person who knows the republican mind better than most. Mckay, thank you for being here. I should say your colleague, david graham, points out theres a Stock Template that could be part of a plausible explanation how these headlines made their way into that video. We have no reporting on that. We cant confirm that one way or another, but the fact of the matter is antisemitic nazi language seems to be winding its way into conservative circles with more frequency here, but i wonder if you can talk about the way this instance is part of a larger and broader pattern of radicalization on the right . I think thats well said because this is part of a pattern. I think people see stuff like this and its easy to jump to the conclusion trump is like a crypto hitler fan. Its something more nuanced but actually maybe more alarming, which is that throughout republican politics and throughout the Conservative Movement at the activist level, a the rising generation of conservative activists and people who are going into conservative media and republican politics have been raised on a steady diet of of, you know, trigger the libsstyle politics, which is to say they parrot fascistic rhetoric, racist rhetoric in a quasiironic way but meant to Gin Up Support among unseemly people but really frighten people on the left, and they think its funny, right . The problem is that the longer people kind of live in that digital universe where theyre pretending to be fascists or neonazis or racists, the more the line between performance and reality starts to blur. And youve seen this time and again with people who are found out to be, for example, producers on Tucker CarlsonsFox News Show or, you know, writers speechwriters in the white house. Stephen miller, for example. These people are people who have spent so much time, you know, kind of trying to upset the left by Parroting Nazi or fascistic rhetoric theyve sort of started to adopt those views unironically. I think thats bay why to make this point quickly why repeatedly when Trumps Campaign is caught using fascisticic rhetoric or trump is caught blatantly dining with someone like nick fuentes theyre like it was bad staffers. At some point you have to ask, well, why is the staff so willing to make these mistakes over and over again. Right. I thought immediately of your Stephen Miller piece that suggests hes so intent on owning the libs and melting the liberal snowflakes he starts embracing a sort of radical right vision that comes to fruition once hes in the white house with a muslim ban or child separation policy he wholeheartedly embraces that hes not actually an architect of. I understand the Stephen Miller point of it 2. 0. I do wonder how you think the josh hawleys and churning the libs style selfradicalization of republican politics, how they fit into that context you laid out . I think its a great point because i think ted cruz is an example of somebody who was raised in a Republican Party where being a young conservative meant being kind of a Young William buckley, right . He was probably like he was a nerd, he went to harvard, he wore blazers and, you know, with flag pins. He was like that kind of guy coming up through the Republican Party of reagan and bush, but, you know, hes in the senate now, and i can think of relatively few senators who are better at adopting that kind of libtriggering Snowflake Melting rightwing trolling attitude than ted cruz. Would he approve of a campaign ad that uses an oxy rhetoric . Probably not on the record, but is it possible in private that hes chuckling about it . I think thats possible. Theres a generational thing thats happened where i think a lot of republicans i think who are currently in office have had to adapt to this new ethos that donald trump has championed, and you see it at every level of the gop. Yeah, and that would be my next question, which is what of the Republican Voters, right . Biden is making the argument people are rejecting antidemocratic fascist ideology. We all have seen the polls. This is going to be a very tight race between the man the figure head of this movement, donald trump, and the man who stands in opposition to it, joe biden. Does that argument about fascism, does the shadow of the reich whether intentional or unintentional move voters in the Republican Party at this point . I mean are they along with the ride with trump and Stephen Miller . Has the Roller Coaster Left you know, has the train left the station . You know, i think certainly some of trumps supporters are along for the ride and they cheer stuff like this or think its funny. I think a lot of Republican Voters the thing is theres negative partisanship is such a strong force in our politics at this point that a lot of Republican Voters who wouldnt approve of stuff like this or even be scandalized by it, when they live in their kind of algorithmically tailored Information Bubble its always framed in this kind of what about fashion. The pivot is to look at this terrible thing democrats are doing. And so i dont know if these sentiments are really widely held in the Republican Party, but i will say joe biden has staked his campaign on denormalizing donald trump in this type of rhetoric. Im not sure if as a Campaign Tactic its going to be successful, and i guess well find out in november. Well find out what our countrys all about after that. Mckay, thank you for being here. I really appreciate your time and reporting on all of this. Mckay coppins with the atlantic. When we come Rudy Giulianis money woes continue in arizona. But dont worry hes got plans to earn some cash. More on that just ahead. To earn some cash. More on that just ahead. Ah, these bills are crazy. She has no idea shes sitting on a goldmine. Well she doesnt know that if she owns a Life Insurance policy of 100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. Even a term policy. Even a term policy . Even a term policy find out if youre sitting on a goldmine. Call Coventry Direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect. Com. You all know i stand by the truth, and if i put my name on something i truly believe in it. That was former trump attorney Rudy Giuliani this sunday. This time the famed mr. Giuliani is putting his name and claiming is the truth isnt an election lie and its not a conspiracy theory. It is this. Today im thrilled to introduce you to something im incredibly proud of. My own brand of organic specialty coffee, rudy coffee. Believe me when i say its the best coffee youll ever try. Its smooth, rich, chocolaty, and gentle on your stomach. Chocolaty. On sunday giuliani launched this, 30 direct to consumer coffee. Now, we already knew that Rudy Giuliani was desperate for cash because of the nearly 150 million Defamation Judgment against him and the Million Dollars plus he still allegedly owes his former lawyers and the loss of income after he was fired from his Long Running Radio Gig earlier this month. In Bankruptcy Proceedings Giuliani has claimed he owes more than 153 million to 49 different creditors. And today we got one more reason why Rudy Giuliani might be desperate for his followers to buy his gentle on the stomach coffee. Today Rudy Giuliani was arraigned in arizona for his role in that states fake elector scheme. Not in person, though. He appeared virtually. At that Hearing Prosecutors explained that for weeks now their office had been attempting to serve mr. Giuliani with his indictment, but giuliani had been avoiding them. Not particularly well, though. Prosecutors claim they could tell where giuliani was because he was constantly Live Streaming video of himself at identifiable locations. But whenever authorities tried to serve mr. Giuliani at those locations they were turned away and told he wasnt there. Giuliani even taunted authorities online this past friday saying if arizona authorities cant find me be tomorrow morning they must dismiss the indictment. Sort of a weird dare. Hes not waldo. Less than two hours after that tweet, arizona authorities did indeed find giuliani outside of his 80th Birthday Party where they served him the papers. Today in his Virtual Court appearance, giuliani claimed he did not resist being served at all and claims it was all a misunderstanding. The judge, however, did not buy it and he hit giuliani with a 10,000 bond to secure his next appearance in person. Giuliani now has 30 days to get to arizona and get booked into the system or forfeit 10,000 he likely cant afford to lose. If that doesnt wake Rudy Giuliani up to the fact that he actually has to comply with Law Enforcement, well, maybe his coffee will. Well be right back. Coffee will. Well be right back. Hi, im jason. Ive lost 228 pounds on golo. I dont ever want to go back to wearing a 4xl shirt or not being able to climb up stairs without taking a break. So im committed to golo for life. Its hard to run a business on your own. Make it easier on yourself. With shopify, you can have your inventory, payments, and customers in sync across all the places you sell. Start your journey with a free trial today. Norman, bad news. I never graduated from med school. What . But the good news is. Xfinity mobile just got even better now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. Plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. I gotta get this deal. I know. Faster wifi and savings . I dont want to miss that. Thats amazing doc. Mobile savings are calling. Visit xfinitymobile. Com to learn more. Doc . Today Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer told reporters that he is in discussions with House Speaker mike johnson about whether to invite israeli Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu to appear before a joint session of congress. This comes just two months after schumer issued a scathing rebuke of netanyahus handling of gaza on the floor of the senate and it comes just a day after the International Criminal court, the icc, announced it would be seeking Arrest Warrants for netanyahu, israels defense minister, and senior hamas leaders alleging war crimes and crimes against humanity. Joining me now is ben rhodes, former National Security advisor under president obama and cohost of course of pod save the world. Thank you for being here. You and i have talked about the iergscc before under different circumstances, and i wonder what you think of bidens reaction that these Arrest Warrants are, quote, outrageous . It felt a little over the top to you the truth. I think anyone expects the u. S. To support icc warrants related to the israeli officials. The u. S. Is not a signatory to the icc. The u. S. Generally has not supported icc jurisdiction over israel or palestine, and icc believes its jurisdiction is based on a recognition of palestine. That said, theres some real problems with this for the u. S. One is the icc does recognize or the u. S. Does recognize icc jurisdiction over russian war crimes even though russias not a signatory, so the kind of hypocrisy in u. S. Foreign policy is pretty glaring in this case because the argument we make about why the icc cant investigate is kind of literally indirectly in contrast with the airport we made about why they should be able to make those kinds of investigations as it relates to russia. And also the u. S. Itself has said that israel has restricted the flow of aid into gaza. U. S. Officials including Samantha Powers said theres a famine in gaza, and the icc determination around the request for a warrant was tied to the use of starvation as a weapon of war, so its kind of tied to things u. S. Officials themselves have said, so kind of puts the u. S. In this position where we seem to be applying a different standard in this case than what we would apply in other cases, so im not surprised that the u. S. Is refusing to support the icc, but the kind of decibel level of the response and frankly the indulgence of some kind of maga republicans who want to sanction an institution like the icc feels like theyre a bit over their ski zones. And speaking of inkulging maga republicans i do wonder what you make of the strange choreography between Chuck Schumer and mike johnson of this invite to netanyahu to address this joint session of Congress Given schumers position he took effectively two months ago saying netanyahu has to go and the way the republicans seem to be successfully splitting the Democratic Coalition and even the democrat himself whos leading the senate. Look, heres the reality of the situation. Netanyahu is leading the most farright coalition in the history of israel. Netanyahu has been a thorn in the side of democratic president s. He last came to congress at ininvitation of the republican Speaker Of The House to literally give a speak arguing against Barack Obamas foreign policy. And President Biden himself has criticized repeatedly increasing levels netanyahus conduct of the war in gaza. And yet theres a reluctance to kind of follow that all the way to the logic of saying on the Democratic Party we dont want to continue to provide offensive military weapons to israel. We believe that there should be a ceasefire. I think what the republicans can sense is a kind of ambivalence in the Democratic Party. There are a lot of democratic constituencies that are appalled by the humanitarian crisis in gaza and dont understand why we would kind of give a blank check of support to a farright government in israel that is ignoring repeatedly the president of the united states. There are also people in the Democratic Party deeply uncomfortable with being out of step with the israeli government, and the republicans smelling that are going to do everything they can whether its trying to sanction the icc, whether its inviting netanyahu to take advantage of that. In those circumstances i think the best thing you can do is stand by your principles, and that would be my advice to democratic leaders. I do wonder you talk about the hard right government in israel that does not particularly want President Biden to win reelection. Israeli officials are sorry, netanyahus meeting with former Trump Officials including Robert Obrien and other, you know, high level former trump aides. Do you read into that . This is not subtle, alex. In 2012 netanyahu supported mitt romney. He was very close to President Trump. They literally named streets and settlements in israel after donald trump under Bibi Netanyahu. Theres every reason to believe netanyahu has a preference for trump in this election. Thats not a new dynamic. Part what is so frustrating to me we continue to be surprised netanyahu would completely ignore the u. S. President , would kind of undermine the u. S. President. Well, hes been doing this to democrats certainly as long as ive been around. The eight years that barack obama was president and now the nearly four years joe biden was president. Democrats have to kind of get their minds around we like to project onto israel the kind of government we would like there to be in israel. We have the government that is, which is Bibi Netanyahu is beholden for his political survival to the most far right elements that has ever been in his coalition, and thats just the reality staring us in the face. The world as it is. Ben rhodes, thank you for your time. That is our show for this evening. Way too early with Jonathan Lemire is coming up next. Testimony wraps up in Donald TrumpsCriminal Hush Money Trial without the former president taking the stand. Well recap what happened in court yesterday and go through with the remaining time line for the case. Also ahead israeli Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu may soon give a joint address to